Information overload!!

[TheNegotiator 13]

This question is clearly aimed at discretionary intraday short to ultra short term traders. How many different markets/indicators/metrics do you feel a trader can effectively monitor in real time to support trade decisions?

 

To me at least this is an interesting question as I have seen so many traders' screens lit up like an arcade with different indicators and others where there is so little that it barely seems worthwhile having the chart at all.

 

They say that traders have to have the mental agility of a fighter pilot to keep up with everything, but are all the instruments we use really necessary and do complicated screens actually tend to distract us more than anything else?

[TheNegotiator 13]

Personally, I don't use any indicators like oscillators etc. but will look much more at volume based charts such as delta in a few different ways. I used to look at many, many different markets to try to get a leading market but I often found myself putting too much emphasis on moves in instruments other than the one I was trading. So now I look at only my primary market and when I am trading others clearly those too. I monitor my quoteboard for any big moves and perhaps take a look if any markets require my attention. I also have been closely following $ as often this is the driving force at the moment.

 

Listing the things I monitor actually makes me realise that I do monitor an awful lot of things to try to help my trade decisions. I actually am quite comfortable with keeping up with these right now and I never feel as though I am losing myself during busy periods.

 

So I would say I monitor 7 or 8 different markets and metrics at any one time with varying emphasis on each. Anyone think that is too much or too little? Do a count of your own and compare it with other guys setups.

[Tradewinds 12]

I only monitor one market, the SP emini. For me personally, I just can't monitor multiple chart tickers. That's why I decided to trade the ES, and not stocks. I monitor 6 lower indicators, and price support and resistance on one screen. I have two computers, each with two screens. So I have 4 screens. One screen is nothing but a price chart and the trading ladder. I think it's good to have one chart with nothing but price on it, and keep the overall picture for the time frame you are trading in context.

 

So 98% of what I monitor is on one screen in front of me. I has taken a long time, years, to refine what I want to monitor and what I feel is valuable to monitor. All my indicators are custom programed by myself.

 

My other two screens have the NYSE UpVolume-Down Volume and the NYSE Advancers - Decliners. I glance at those to see if newer highs and lows have been made, or it there was an unusually big move. Sometimes volume will have a big move right before the price moves. For example, there could be a lot of down volume and price doesn't move that much, but price will catch up to the volume. It happens very quickly, so there is not a lot of warning or time to react, but every little piece of information can help.

[pbylina 10]

So I would say I monitor 7 or 8 different markets and metrics at any one time with varying emphasis on each. Anyone think that is too much or too little? Do a count of your own and compare it with other guys setups.

 

Well there is a strong correlation between EUR&CHF, CAD&OIL, and AUD&GOLD. So it would be a good for confirmation.

[MadMarketScientist 11]

So I have 4 screens. One screen is nothing but a price chart and the trading ladder.

My other two screens have the NYSE UpVolume-Down Volume and the NYSE Advancers - Decliners.

 

so the fourth screen is for TL right? :rofl:

 

MMS

[MadMarketScientist 11]

OP - this isn't a problem only with real-time traders ... I have this same problem just trying to trade stocks over the medium term. there is just too much info out there and too many options ... trying to research one stock gets me looking at 10 other stocks and then off to the ETF's, etc, etc.

 

yes i think its worthwhile to sometimes turn OFF internet (blasphemy!) and do some work without all the distractions. it used to just be email but now i find myself turning it all off more and more.

 

MMS

[BlowFish 10]

Well there is a strong correlation between EUR&CHF, CAD&OIL, and AUD&GOLD. So it would be a good for confirmation.

 

I think that's where people come unstuck. Sure it can add a bit of confidence but is it worth all the extra layers of complexity? I don't think so. To execute consistently it is much easier if it things are simple. Something you can do pretty much with out any thought or analysis.

 

Funnily enough I am always on the look out for things to help confirm a level and how ever 'good' they are I usually end up either abandoning them for simplicities sake or if they are that good trading them on their own for a bit of variety. Indicators that attempt to measure sentiment shifts or changes in order flow e.g. cumulative delta or trade intensity all have great appeal to help with triggering and timing. But you know what? if any of those 'trigger' you can bet your bottom dollar price will trigger itself (like breaking the previous bar).

 

JohnW has a couple of good posts on th subject of keeping inputs to a minimum.

 

I also think that methods that require lots of inputs are more inclined to fail with changing market conditions. You can 'curve fit' in discretionary trading as well as system trading.

 

OP even if coping with all this information it would probably be beneficial to try and strip away everything that is not essential. It would be much easier to maintain peak performance. You also might find you can trade more markets and diversification is a great way to reduce risk.

[TheNegotiator 13]

It's interesting isn't it though that we are always searching for additional indicators. I think that there are two reasons for this. Firstly, we have a lack of acceptance of ambiguity and so require more 'certainty' for our trading/what the market IS going to do. Searching and monitoring multiple things follows this. Secondly, what MMS said made me think of this. Our attention span for a market which is doing or perhaps more accurately 'achieving' very little, is about as much as it is for watching paint dry(unless you have some kind of odd hobby!). So there is this intellectual 'concentration gradient' where an immensely active mind needs to be 'filled' with something to figure out or focus on when not much is going on in the market. I am sure Rande would have something to say on this...

Edited May 27, 2011 by TheNegotiator

[SRspider 10]

I monitor 4 markets, with a moving average, pivots, and volume on each. One time frame, but i will usually switch back and forth to a larger time frame to spot s/r levels.

For me monitoring one market made me feel anxious as when i started i could not trade a full day because of work. So by watching different markets I can usually find an opportunity to trade in at least one in the short time I had to watch the market. I have found that the simpler the better, especially when watching more than one market. If your just watching one I think with a bunch of indicators would probably be okay, but not multiples.

[steve46 12]

I monitor one market, using supply/demand analysis, time-based pivots and the concept of wholesale/retail value (similar to Volume Profile).

[BlowFish 10]

... we have a lack of acceptance of ambiguity and so require more 'certainty' for our trading/what the market IS going to do.

 

I agree. Even accepting it's simply about applying an edge many of us have this little voice in the deep recesses of our minds 'I wonder if we could improve that edge'. Intellect and ego are enemies of trading and looking at too much stuff lets them in.

[BlowFish 10]

I monitor one market, using supply/demand analysis, time-based pivots and the concept of wholesale/retail value (similar to Volume Profile).

 

Might I ask does the environment you work in help prevent you getting 'sidetracked' (for want of a better word)?

[steve46 12]

Might I ask does the environment you work in help prevent you getting 'sidetracked' (for want of a better word)?

 

Well first, I negotiated a leave of absence from work....in exchange I agreed to train someone to take my place (period of 18 months)...I did this for two reasons...first my ambition is to do something similar to what Richard Dennis and William Eckhardt did in training the "Turtles"

Second, I wanted to avoid "burning bridges" with folks who were kind enough to take a chance on me a few years ago...So I did what I had to do in order to get a shot a what has been a dream of mine for a while now.

 

That said, I have the next 18 months in which to find, train, and "set free" (yes they are going to be asked to leave the class). After that, I have asked them to trade on their own (at least 6 months) and report the results. There are many differences between Dennis, Eckhardt and myself the least of which is that my system is distinct from "traditional" (Donchian) trend following.

 

Addressing your question...I have made my environment right for this project and yet I still get sidetracked...trying to educate, prepare a premarket analysis and then trade the open in front of a class is bit of a challenge...the solution to this problem is that I map out the trades in front of my class in the pre-market (5:45 to 6:15am PST). This approach is similar to that used by pro football coaches. who map out the first X number of plays in advance....if things go as planned they simply continue with that scheme....if not, they adapt to the changing environment..(and we do the same).

 

I hope this gets close to a usable answer.

 

Best Regards

Steve

Edited May 29, 2011 by steve46

[SRspider 10]

Steve,

Just curious , about how many trades do you average a day, watching just one market. I found that watching just one market was limiting the opportunity as sometimes the one market is not moving very much or not setting up, while one of the others is providing an opportunity. Has this been a problem for you? Or do you pretty much get some opportunities every day?

[steve46 12]

Steve,

Just curious , about how many trades do you average a day, watching just one market. I found that watching just one market was limiting the opportunity as sometimes the one market is not moving very much or not setting up, while one of the others is providing an opportunity. Has this been a problem for you? Or do you pretty much get some opportunities every day?

 

Hi

 

Depends on the local volatility..For example currently (Friday for example) we had one trade before calling it quits for the session. That trade was good for 7+ points.

Generally speaking I won't pull the trigger unless I see potential profit of at least 5 points.

Most of this month we have had one or two such trades per day.

I hope this helps

Steve

[noego 10]

I like one but never more than 2 markets and I look at a few bigger time frames for reference and major patterns and pivots. I then use an entry chart with volume profile and delta study. If you can locate the critical areas you don't need much more than that nor do you need 12 monitors. I'm not sure how anyone can honestly say they can fully focus all day on that much information.

[steve46 12]

I like one but never more than 2 markets and I look at a few bigger time frames for reference and major patterns and pivots. I then use an entry chart with volume profile and delta study. If you can locate the critical areas you don't need much more than that nor do you need 12 monitors. I'm not sure how anyone can honestly say they can fully focus all day on that much information.

 

You can't (focus continuously for hours)...so what we do is use our time based pivots and supply demand analysis to tell us when to focus and when we can "relax"...

 

We also take a brief break during the NYSE lunch hour and at specific times of the year, we exit the markets one hour prior to the end of RTH

 

Hope this helps

Steve

[Obsidian 10]

This question is clearly aimed at discretionary intraday short to ultra short term traders. How many different markets/indicators/metrics do you feel a trader can effectively monitor in real time to support trade decisions?

 

To me at least this is an interesting question as I have seen so many traders' screens lit up like an arcade with different indicators and others where there is so little that it barely seems worthwhile having the chart at all.

 

They say that traders have to have the mental agility of a fighter pilot to keep up with everything, but are all the instruments we use really necessary and do complicated screens actually tend to distract us more than anything else?

 

I remember the times I fell asleep in front of screen while watching the markets...If you are trading alone, it is very exhausting to follow too many instruments...