Day Trading the E-mini Futures

[DbPhoenix 42]

I'm not sure whether I totally agree with this and I believe it's better put as "it depends". I think for the purposes of trying to teach someone a particular method, it's fair to say that you don't have to use x or y in a certain way.

 

I was going to include moving averages, but that would really rattle some slats. And take the thread off into a far tangent.

 

Suffice it to say that the object of all this is the price, not a line drawn on the chart by the trader. If one focuses on the line rather than on what price is doing, he should probably get rid of the line, at least until he can put it in perspective.

 

Db

[goodoboy 10]

DB mentioned this, but I was thinking the same thing as I read your post: who cares what it's called? Call it the "goodoboy special" ... does not matter what you call it. No need to call it anything.

 

Meant to say congrats on a couple of good trades you posted recently.

 

It may not matter much to you at this point, but you are trading ES, but looking at the cash chart. And a free, not very good one either--free is okay, but the data just doesn't look right. Attached is a 5-second updated cash chart, and what it really should look like (I have not seen an update interval less than 5s for S&P). At some point you may find it helpful to see the actual ES data. It does look and behave differently (even if for nothing else that it updates more often than 5 seconds).

 

Thanks Josh,

 

That was funny, "goodoboy special". LOL.

[TheNegotiator 13]

Interesting lack of unity here between the e-minis.

[goodoboy 10]

Taking these entries in the direction of your trendline would have given you the opportunity for maximum profit on the short you missed.

 

 

 

I have mentioned these price patterns before and the key is that you need to gain practice drawing them as they unfold and watching the result. Do it for a month and you will then have a basis for making trade choices.

 

Thanks bakrob, sounds good enough. Practice is the key.

[bakrob99 11]

Interesting lack of unity here between the e-minis.

 

Yes .. a good opportunity to get long the NQ and hold to yesterdays VPOC at 2434.

[goodoboy 10]

took a short about 8:33 @ 1400.25, stop was at 1401.25.

 

Results: -2pts

 

Reason for the trade: price action traded withing a range and I tried to go short at the top of that range as the price action traded downward since yesterday after noon. Target was 1392, with watchful eye of breaking 1397 first.

 

I think I better wait for the market to fully open and establish some direction before I try that again (going against the trend), considering overall trend of the market is up.

[DbPhoenix 42]

took a short about 8:33 @ 1400.25, stop was at 1401.25.

 

Results: -2pts

 

Reason for the trade: price action traded withing a range and I tried to go short at the top of that range as the price action traded downward since yesterday after noon. Target was 1392, with watchful eye of breaking 1397 first.

 

I think I better wait for the market to fully open and establish some direction before I try that again (going against the trend), considering overall trend of the market is up.

 

When trading a range, you have to be prepared to sell resistance and buy support as you will be unlikely to get second chances. The range you were attempting to trade was only two pts wide (it was also clustered around the midpoint of the wider range that's been in effect for a week). Your target, therefore, was 1398, not 1392. Two points isn't much of a range, even for a scalper. Therefore, wait for the range to resolve itself and trade the breakout, whether up or down.

 

Sorry if this is off topic.

 

Db

[bakrob99 11]

Once again the NQ has been much friendlier to trade than ES IMO. Nice moves up with out the jarring up-down Algo crappola.

[bakrob99 11]

Sorry if this is off topic.

Db

 

 

I don't see how it could be off topic. Seems good to me.

[joshdance 10]

took a short about 8:33 @ 1400.25, stop was at 1401.25.

 

Results: -2pts

 

Reason for the trade: price action traded withing a range and I tried to go short at the top of that range as the price action traded downward since yesterday after noon. Target was 1392, with watchful eye of breaking 1397 first.

 

I think I better wait for the market to fully open and establish some direction before I try that again (going against the trend), considering overall trend of the market is up.

 

You consistently are taking trades right at or before the open. The open is significant, and sometimes a trade like this makes sense, but as dB said, the market has not really shown its hand yet at all. It almost certainly will break and test one or both of the immediate boundaries (00.75 and 97.50), and in this case it tested above the nearest boundary, right where you stop was. At least you did short the top of the range and not the bottom, but nothing wrong to wait and see what's up.

 

On a market note -- quite clear what's going on, one perspective anyway. Market breaks north of overnight range, and tests the middle of yesterday's balance, vpoc at 1404. Has trouble breaking it, comes down to (no surprise) the top of the overnight range at 00.75, finds good volume support. Making higher lows along a trendline drawn from the low of the day, and has finally challenged 04. I am long and scaled at 04, but looking for 05.75 or higher, yesterday's VAH. Market is certainly trying. In this kind of market it's a case of getting in, and waiting. If it fails, I'm simply trailing my stop below the trend line and will take a small profit on the 2nd half (but would much prefer higher ) Nothing we can do to speed this up, unfortunately.

[goodoboy 10]

You consistently are taking trades right at or before the open. The open is significant, and sometimes a trade like this makes sense, but as dB said, the market has not really shown its hand yet at all. It almost certainly will break and test one or both of the immediate boundaries (00.75 and 97.50), and in this case it tested above the nearest boundary, right where you stop was. At least you did short the top of the range and not the bottom, but nothing wrong to wait and see what's up.

 

On a market note -- quite clear what's going on, one perspective anyway. Market breaks north of overnight range, and tests the middle of yesterday's balance, vpoc at 1404. Has trouble breaking it, comes down to (no surprise) the top of the overnight range at 00.75, finds good volume support. Making higher lows along a trendline drawn from the low of the day, and has finally challenged 04. I am long and scaled at 04, but looking for 05.75 or higher, yesterday's VAH. Market is certainly trying. In this kind of market it's a case of getting in, and waiting. If it fails, I'm simply trailing my stop below the trend line and will take a small profit on the 2nd half (but would much prefer higher ) Nothing we can do to speed this up, unfortunately.

 

Yes, the idea was right, but the time of trade was wrong.

 

That trendline you mention is holding up very nice, but I took a short at 1404, stop at 1405.50. Target at 1400.75 as this seems to be where buyers was located earlier as you mentioned.

 

This 1404 resistance has tried to break about 5 times today and there is an overhead trendline connecting from yesterday high that I think add a bit more resistance for buyers break through this level. I'm keep a close eye on this one just incase a break above 1404 happens.

[bakrob99 11]

Looking topped out to me. I show significant selling and fragile support. Looking for lower. If we can take out 1401.50 with some gusto then looking for 96 92 and possible lower. But not expecting a huge range. Just not that many contracts being traded.

[TheNegotiator 13]

Looking topped out to me. I show significant selling and fragile support. Looking for lower. If we can take out 1401.50 with some gusto then looking for 96 92 and possible lower. But not expecting a huge range. Just not that many contracts being traded.

 

True, but it's also possible we'll keep making higher lows. So we could break up, we could break down or we could tighten up some more. In fairness, in the first nearly 4.5 hrs we've only traded a 5.5pt range. My opinion = market lame. No need to force it when it's like this and perhaps it's better to just do something else.

[TheNegotiator 13]

In fairness, yesterday had a 5.75pt range until a little after 3pm. If we looked to be doing the same, what would your plan be?

[bakrob99 11]

...perhaps it's better to just do something else.

Yeah ... Do something more exciting like ... Learn how to knit.

[bakrob99 11]

I... what would your plan be?

 

Come back after my knitting lessons. In about an hour.

[bakrob99 11]

Some big limit orders sitting at the settlement in ES. Not sure if they're going to stop the descent.

[goodoboy 10]

what would your plan be?

 

I think the play should be short the highs and buy the lows. Of course, I am taking this from Bakrob99 plan the last two weeks. LOL. Its good learning time for me. Either way up or down, I am fine with. This is my first summer trading so i hear its slow like this. As I look back this time last year they had really big ranges and lots of bad news out.

[bakrob99 11]

I think the play should be short the highs and buy the lows. Of course, I am taking this from Bakrob99 plan the last two weeks. LOL. Its good learning time for me. Either way up or down, I am fine with. This is my first summer trading so i hear its slow like this. As I look back this time last year they had really big ranges and lots of bad news out.

 

I got long at 1402.25. Not really a low but it was a switch to positive volume. Now I am just trailing a stop. We'll see.

[TheNegotiator 13]

In fairness, yesterday had a 5.75pt range until a little after 3pm. If we looked to be doing the same, what would your plan be?

 

I think the play should be short the highs and buy the lows. Of course, I am taking this from Bakrob99 plan the last two weeks. LOL. Its good learning time for me. Either way up or down, I am fine with. This is my first summer trading so i hear its slow like this. As I look back this time last year they had really big ranges and lots of bad news out.

 

If we looked to be starting to break out of the current range, you would try to short the highs or buy at the lows?

[bakrob99 11]

I am long based on the Settlement price which held, above the VWAP and BUYING comping in strong.

 

This is what it looked like: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30589&stc=1&d=1345057798

 

Timing:

Edited August 15, 2012 by bakrob99

[goodoboy 10]

If we looked to be starting to break out of the current range, you would try to short the highs or buy at the lows?

 

IMO, If ES breaks the current range, I am not interesting in shorting, unless some bad news come outs. If it breaks I would looking to go long.. Its day by day to me. Currently, the price can barely make it above the same resistance as yesterday. I'm no expert, but with this type price movement, I think I would buy lows that holds and short resistances that fail to break.

[goodoboy 10]

t I took a short at 1404, stop at 1405.50. Target at 1400.75

 

Brokeeven on this one after the overhead trendline broke. There was attempt to break 1404, but shot down at 1405.50

[goodoboy 10]

Question for Db (well anyone can answer I notice Josh and Bakrob99 were in similar sitiuation today)

 

Lets say for instance, I went long at 1402 around 13:10 today. My target would be a break of 1408, but of course have to break the 1404.50 HOD (RTH).

 

My question pertains to exiting the trade.

Would it make sense to exit the trade once the line is broken as drawn? Or wait for a retrace back to 1404? I am thinking like Josh said to just manually move stop with the line.

 

Thanks

[DbPhoenix 42]

Question for Db (well anyone can answer I notice Josh and Bakrob99 were in similar sitiuation today)

 

Lets say for instance, I went long at 1402 around 13:10 today. My target would be a break of 1408, but of course have to break the 1404.50 HOD (RTH).

 

My question pertains to exiting the trade.

Would it make sense to exit the trade once the line is broken as drawn? Or wait for a retrace back to 1404? I am thinking like Josh said to just manually move stop with the line.

 

Thanks

 

None of the above.

 

At the risk of sounding harsh (that's the second time I've said that today), why do you set targets that you have no intention of staying in the trade long enough to reach? The trading plan is not just busywork; it is something to be followed, religiously. Therefore, write a plan that you can follow. If you can't follow it, write another one. Then another. Then another. If you're going to exit the trade at the break of a trendline or an S/D line, then make that part of your plan. If your plan is to re-enter after that break, then detail the conditions under which you'll do so. Otherwise, there's really no point in putting together a plan at all.

 

I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but there it is.

 

Db