Day Trading the E-mini Futures

[TheNegotiator 13]

DO any of you read the DOM or Tape Strip and does that give you any edge or do you get the same results from reading Price/Bars and/or Delta?

 

DOM yes, T&S not really. It gives me a 'feel' of the market and it's velocity.

[roztom 10]

DOM yes, T&S not really. It gives me a 'feel' of the market and it's velocity.

 

I've got to look into that.. When I try to watch the strip I get dizzy... too much eye-strain... as far as the DOM...all I read is when price gets real active and jumps around... I don't watch it I just see it out of the corner of my eye...

 

I really depend on reading price charts and Delta... unfotunately when I believe it is time to pull the trigger, most of the time I enter a bit late since it takes time for a bar or 2 to print and also for Delta to but a bar in..all of it slows me down but I can't necessarily watch price, time, delta and DOM or Strip... I am going to have to see htough if I can get a better edge in not waiting for lagging stuff since it increases my risk and cuts down my potential profit... I have so much to learn... :doh:

[joshdance 10]

I would think that buying at 1415 or slightly lower is so predictable, that it would have to go lower. Why make it so easy?

[joshdance 10]

DO any of you read the DOM or Tape Strip and does that give you any edge or do you get the same results from reading Price/Bars and/or Delta?

 

DOM, not particularly. T&S, yes, for momentum. The problem with using T&S only and not having a volume reading otherwise is that during fast market conditions, when it is particularly helpful to watch T&S, most of transactions will never even print, because one has 60 or 70 lines visible on the tape, and there can easily be 1000 transactions in a second or two, so 90% will never reach the screen. So, to get an accurate picture of the actual transactions that traded, the only way is a cumulative volume histogram. Combine that with a delta reading and you have a nice "historical tape" that can verify what you're seeing as it goes by on the strip.

 

I think this is important because often you will see fast transactions occur, when in fact very little volume actually traded. Other times, you will see a single burst, and notice that your eyes never saw the 4K that just traded in that millisecond or two. There's no other way to get around this I'm afraid...

 

The market has changed so much since the days of Livermore and Wyckoff, the original tape readers... they would be astounded I'm sure.

[roztom 10]

I would think that buying at 1415 or slightly lower is so predictable, that it would have to go lower. Why make it so easy?

 

Light Fast long @ 14.50 very tight leash...

 

12.25 level I posted earlier ..Added and scaling to improve price...

Edited April 2, 2012 by roztom

[TheNegotiator 13]

I would think that buying at 1415 or slightly lower is so predictable, that it would have to go lower. Why make it so easy?

 

On a day like today, it doesn't really matter. Watching VPOC for retest now.

[TheNegotiator 13]

I've got to look into that.. When I try to watch the strip I get dizzy... too much eye-strain... as far as the DOM...all I read is when price gets real active and jumps around... I don't watch it I just see it out of the corner of my eye...

 

I really depend on reading price charts and Delta... unfotunately when I believe it is time to pull the trigger, most of the time I enter a bit late since it takes time for a bar or 2 to print and also for Delta to but a bar in..all of it slows me down but I can't necessarily watch price, time, delta and DOM or Strip... I am going to have to see htough if I can get a better edge in not waiting for lagging stuff since it increases my risk and cuts down my potential profit... I have so much to learn... :doh:

 

Do you ever watch volume based candles? Short of the DOM, they do give a feeling of tempo better imho.

[joshdance 10]

I would think that buying at 1415 or slightly lower is so predictable, that it would have to go lower. Why make it so easy?

 

I guess the market agreed. Got a small piece of that last drop, 1 point.

[roztom 10]

Scratched out my long ...if I had better location...wuda shuda cuda... it's ok...got head faked when the 12.25 number was THE number, imho...

[roztom 10]

Do you ever watch volume based candles? Short of the DOM, they do give a feeling of tempo better imho.

 

I do not use candles - herasy !! I llearned on bars and eventhogh I studies candles and used them for a number of years I really don't see anything more in them then what I see with a bar.. in fact I like to see where a bar closes and I can't see that on a candle...

 

I'm probably the only guy left who still looks at bars... :doh:

[TheNegotiator 13]

I do not use candles - herasy !! I llearned on bars and eventhogh I studies candles and used them for a number of years I really don't see anything more in them then what I see with a bar.. in fact I like to see where a bar closes and I can't see that on a candle...

 

I'm probably the only guy left who still looks at bars... :doh:

 

Candles/bars whatever. Pfft. :rofl: They both show OHLC. So do you ever use volume based bars then?

 

Edit:maybe bars only show HLC by default? I can't remember my mind is fuzzied up by ES

[TheNegotiator 13]

I do not use candles - herasy !! I llearned on bars and eventhogh I studies candles and used them for a number of years I really don't see anything more in them then what I see with a bar.. in fact I like to see where a bar closes and I can't see that on a candle...

 

I'm probably the only guy left who still looks at bars... :doh:

 

You can see where it closes on a candle!!

[gosu 10]

I do not use candles - herasy !! I llearned on bars and eventhogh I studies candles and used them for a number of years I really don't see anything more in them then what I see with a bar.. in fact I like to see where a bar closes and I can't see that on a candle...

 

I'm probably the only guy left who still looks at bars... :doh:

 

I too prefer bars, less clutter. You are right that candleschtiks don't convey anything more than bars, but they don't convey anything less either. Why can't you see where the candle closes? That's what the candle emphasizes - the distance between the open and close - in the form of the body. Being more attuned to the extremes, I don't find that emphasis all that useful.

[TheNegotiator 13]

Same thing no?

 

[TheNegotiator 13]

I do use bars, but for things like my daily charts. The thing that I like about candles is the wicks emphasise spikes and rejections etc really well. Each to their own I guess though.

[joshdance 10]

Edit:maybe bars only show HLC by default? I can't remember my mind is fuzzied up by ES

 

Well some people use HLC bars and hide the open. Bars by default are usually OHLC. I personally use only HILO bars, with no open or close, because I don't use that information.

[TheNegotiator 13]

Well some people use HLC bars and hide the open. Bars by default are usually OHLC. I personally use only HILO bars, with no open or close, because I don't use that information.

 

Personally Josh, I'm just not sure I could do the same as it removes a layer of the 'flow'.

[gosu 10]

Same thing no?

 

 

Not quite the same...........................

[TheNegotiator 13]

Not quite the same...........................

 

You're changing the rules! You could use a paint bar study on candlesticks in the same way.

[gosu 10]

You're changing the rules! You could use a paint bar study on candlesticks in the same way.

 

Yeah I tweaked it a bit. You can do the same with candleschtiks but it adds unnecessary clutter because of the body color already built into them.

[TheNegotiator 13]

Yeah I tweaked it a bit. You can do the same with candleschtiks but it adds unnecessary clutter because of the body color already built into them.

 

Fair enough, I can see that makes sense.

[roztom 10]

I like seeing OHLC in whatever I'm looking at... If you get a little squat bar that has open & close in same spot and in the middle it is a stalemate. If it opens on top goes down & closes on top then that is a mini hook means there were buywers on the dip... that kind of thing... When I watch candles I don't seem to get the same info... Might just be me...

[roztom 10]

Same thing no?

 

 

TO me they are the same thing... the bars show me more than the candles... I can't ever remeber a candle giving me any advantage over a bar..to the contrary a bar just says more "to me." I use candles on Daily chart only the rest shorter time frames are all bars, whether tick, range, even renko is a bar... I do not use volume bars since I have volume on the profile for interday..

[MightyMouse 12]

Same thing no?

 

 

I prefer candle style. In my opinion they are easier on older eyes.

[joshdance 10]

Personally Josh, I'm just not sure I could do the same as it removes a layer of the 'flow'.

 

I see how you can say that because you see no transition from one bar to the next with hilo bars. But to me, I think that adding the open or close actually interrupts the flow. Who cares, on a 3000V bar, where the open and close is? I've explained my reasons for this in the "close of a bar is meaningless" thread so I won't repeat any of it here, but suffice it to say that marking where the last price traded every 3000 contracts traded does not give me useful information. I just need to see the extremes that printed, and with a small enough time frame like this I see the market flow, and adding the close and/or open only adds little "tick" marks to distract me!