Day Trading the E-mini Futures

[bakrob99 11]

I like Keppler's work, but I haven't (yet) read that book. Will add it to my list

[The Abyss 10]

Beuatiful PPOC reached at 1345.75... any thoughts that todays destination may have just been reached or is todays goal to take out that overnight low from Sunday at 1342.50?

[gosu 10]

Ending AM early today. Went to S fast so no point getting greedy.

 

Everyone and his brother sees the horizontal at 1342.50 as a target.

[clmacdougall 11]

Ending AM early today. Went to S fast so no point getting greedy.

 

Everyone and his brother sees the horizontal at 1342.50 as a target.

 

gosu,

 

Could you post a chart for us of your trade today, would love to see Hershey stuff in action!!

[gosu 10]

gosu,

 

Could you post a chart for us of your trade today, would love to see Hershey stuff in action!!

 

Not much Hershey action to see from me this morning because the way I handle trend AMs is an "invention" that got me kicked out of the Hershey Order. Or more accurately, I kicked myself out. You will not find the term "trend AM" in the Hershey lexicon.

 

I cheated a bit and entered p3 last night. This morning's move is the third leg of the resumption. I didn't add after the cash open. Thought about it but was too complacent from the built in gains. I don't go for the homerun the way I used to. Getting old I guess.

 

I can't remember the last time May has had as many nice moves. It's barely past the first week yet. I made plans for a short vacation to New York starting tomorrow and I already know I'll be wondering what's happening in the market during the day. Hard to really get away from it. It's an occupational hazard.

[clmacdougall 11]

i have never read keppler's book but "mind over markets" and "markets in profile" are my bible

 

I've read every MP book available, here's a list of them.

1. Steidlmayer on Markets

2. Steidlmayer on Markets 2nd Edition

3. Markets and Market Logic

4. 141 West Jackson

5. Markets 101

6. Mind Over Markets

7. Value Based Power Trading

8. CBOT Market Profile Study Guide

9. Markets in Profile

10. Practical Trading Applications of Market Profile

 

Kepplers book is excellent so far. More concise than Mind Over Markets. This one stands out in its clarity of presentation. It will stay with me, not because I define market structure by the statistical bell curve, but because I have gleaned ideas and concepts from Market Profile that I now call my own. I am one third through the book and am totally impressed with its layout and format.

Edited May 8, 2012 by clmacdougall

[gosu 10]

I've read every MP book available, here's a list of them.

1. Steidlmayer on Markets

2. Steidlmayer on Markets 2nd Edition

3. Markets and Market Logic

4. 141 West Jackson

5. Markets 101

6. Mind Over Markets

7. Value Based Power Trading

8. CBOT Market Profile Study Guide

9. Markets in Profile

10. Practical Trading Applications of Market Profile

 

* * *

 

You deserve a degree in Market Profile.

[clmacdougall 11]

You deserve a degree in Market Profile.

 

IMHO that degree wouldn't take you very far:haha::haha: But an open mind can pick up a couple of great concepts from Steidlmayers work. MP is much too static of a way to view the markets to be of any use in my opinion.

But there is almost no other price based theoretical teaching out there that has been published which is more forward thinking than MP when it comes to defining market structure. At least it can get you thinking in the right direction!!

[roztom 10]

Roztom, for the last 20 years, I've been trading stocks for myself and as an investment advisor. I'm looking to get into trading ES or TF. Is there a reasonably priced charting program with Market Profile that you would recommend?

Are there FCMs I should be looking at for ES or TF?

 

I have used most platforms over the years.. currently I use Linnsoft: IRT, Pro Ver.. Costs about $90./mo plus depending on your data feed it might be more but it is inconsequential today. Also for historical data you need DTMA backfill, excellent about $20./mo.

 

GO to Linnsoft.com and look around.. Personally I believe it is the best or at least one of the best MP/VP packages out there...

 

It is probably one of the best if you are in to Volume Profiles which is one of the tools I lean on...

[gosu 10]

IMHO that degree wouldn't take you very far:haha::haha: But an open mind can pick up a couple of great concepts from Steidlmayers work. MP is much too static of a way to view the markets to be of any use in my opinion.

But there is almost no other price based theoretical teaching out there that has been published which is more forward thinking than MP when it comes to defining market structure. At least it can get you thinking in the right direction!!

 

Hey, don't sell a degree in Market Profile short! If trading doesn't work out for you, you can use it to hold yourself out as a Market Profile guru and make a living off teaching the fish.

 

Who knows, you could write your own book and become well known and give sold-out seminars in exotic locales and never have to grind in front of the screens again!

[cma6 10]

I have used most platforms over the years.. currently I use Linnsoft: IRT, Pro Ver.. Costs about $90./mo plus depending on your data feed it might be more but it is inconsequential today. Also for historical data you need DTMA backfill, excellent about $20./mo.

 

GO to Linnsoft.com and look around.. Personally I believe it is the best or at least one of the best MP/VP packages out there...

 

It is probably one of the best if you are in to Volume Profiles which is one of the tools I lean on...

 

Tom, greatly appreciated. I'll look into that pacakge.

Jon

[roztom 10]

As far as FCM's... you really need to find a stable platform and an interface you are comfotrable with... If you read reviews here you can find one. also , some of the data feeds are compatible with IRT. Infinity / TransAct is free ES Data, as well as some others... If you plan to trade other markets you will need a feed like DTN IQ, etc...expensive ..if only e-mini's than a good broker feed will work... but the feed must not aggregate the volume otherwise the VP gets messed up.

 

Infinity has a good free feed... some other free feeds are bad from a volume point of view so you need to do your homework..

 

Let me know if I can help..

[cma6 10]

As far as FCM's... you really need to find a stable platform and an interface you are comfotrable with... If you read reviews here you can find one. also , some of the data feeds are compatible with IRT. Infinity / TransAct is free ES Data, as well as some others... If you plan to trade other markets you will need a feed like DTN IQ, etc...expensive ..if only e-mini's than a good broker feed will work... but the feed must not aggregate the volume otherwise the VP gets messed up.

 

Infinity has a good free feed... some other free feeds are bad from a volume point of view so you need to do your homework..

 

Let me know if I can help..

 

This is a great headstart for me. So you are saying that one can get a free ES feed on some platforms. Other equity tradeables, like TF and Nasdaq, are not free?

[roztom 10]

Emini are free...but I don't really know what is included I think it is only minis'...

[karoshiman 10]

 

...

 

I cheated a bit and entered p3 last night. This morning's move is the third leg of the resumption. I didn't add after the cash open. Thought about it but was too complacent from the built in gains. I don't go for the homerun the way I used to. Getting old I guess.

 

...

 

 

 

Great entry, gosu!

 

I would have entered also on Monday, but in general I don't feel too comfortable about the ETH action where you have sometimes bigger head fake moves. So, I prefer to not trade before London open. Hence, I choose to be on the safe side (from my point of view at that time). In hindsight, I saw that the Monday entry would have been the safe side... :doh:

Well, maybe because of the strong price action on Friday one could expect that a major up move will not happen overnight.

 

Do you trade with stops in place? And if so, what was your stop Monday night? Just curious... And do you "cheat" often, if you get a signal from your methodology at RTH close/ETH open?

 

Anyway, I've made a very nice profit yesterday on the down move, but got too greedy at the end. Otherwise I would have made my whole week's profit target yesterday... lol. Your exit was excellent, too!

[TheNegotiator 13]

I've read every MP book available, here's a list of them.

1. Steidlmayer on Markets

2. Steidlmayer on Markets 2nd Edition

3. Markets and Market Logic

4. 141 West Jackson

5. Markets 101

6. Mind Over Markets

7. Value Based Power Trading

8. CBOT Market Profile Study Guide

9. Markets in Profile

10. Practical Trading Applications of Market Profile

 

Kepplers book is excellent so far. More concise than Mind Over Markets. This one stands out in its clarity of presentation. It will stay with me, not because I define market structure by the statistical bell curve, but because I have gleaned ideas and concepts from Market Profile that I now call my own. I am one third through the book and am totally impressed with its layout and format.

 

You can read and read and read, but eventually you have to do. (not meant as a criticism, just pointing it out)

[gosu 10]

Great entry, gosu!

 

I would have entered also on Monday, but in general I don't feel too comfortable about the ETH action where you have sometimes bigger head fake moves. So, I prefer to not trade before London open. Hence, I choose to be on the safe side (from my point of view at that time). In hindsight, I saw that the Monday entry would have been the safe side... :doh:

Well, maybe because of the strong price action on Friday one could expect that a major up move will not happen overnight.

 

Do you trade with stops in place? And if so, what was your stop Monday night? Just curious... And do you "cheat" often, if you get a signal from your methodology at RTH close/ETH open?

 

Anyway, I've made a very nice profit yesterday on the down move, but got too greedy at the end. Otherwise I would have made my whole week's profit target yesterday... lol. Your exit was excellent, too!

 

You can't trade in hindsight but you can always learn for the next time or the time after that or after that, etc. The market operating points always come around again. For example, look at the formation on the ES as of right now - 30m, 60m, 90m - take your pick. This is a pennant forming, a flat bottom pennant (FBP). It is indicative of consolidation/centering. What else does the market do after a large move? The transitions are also always repeating.

 

On Monday night I watched for the p3 on the ST. There's too much time to kill in AS trading but I always look to play the ST p3 regardless of RTH or AS. In any case, I thought I might get an entry above the RTH high in the overnight session. The 10m container was the place to be. I got 66.5 on the FBO of the RTL and set a stop at 68.25 once price resumed into the container. This was a little after my last post on TL and I left the screens as I was getting a bit cranky. Around London open I checked the market and saw the trade was working nicely. There had been another FBO on the fanned RTL and the sentiment was still short. I moved the stop to a wash+ at 66.25 and went to sleep. I felt pretty good that the p3 was in at that point.

 

 

Glad to hear that you had a nice profit on the short. Yes, you have to watch out for the obvious horizontals that everyone is watching. I call horizontals "dummy lines" because they are the only lines dummies use. When everyone expects something to happen in the market, it's unlikely to happen. The fast and direct move to S was a warning to me that AM was gonna end early. 8:50 is the usual time I watch for.

 

Keep learning. You'll get the feel for it after you notice it a hundred times.

 

Thanks for the compliments. Cheers.

[TheNegotiator 13]

So what about yesterday? We tested Monday's low and failed to retake it. We then pushed lower and lower, without finding any substanial buyers on our way to 42 area. This one is for what Josh mentioned in his Pre-Open Plans and Hypotheses thread. We didn't quite get to what we thought might be a good target/long reversal price @42.50 (to 41.75) and yet the market broke up and formed a balance before taking off to the upside. I'll show this in the chart for those who didn't see at the time. We then pushed up and up and actually made new highs. Yet somehow we still couldn't close inside Monday's range.

 

 

What does the day tell us? Despite there being "excess" in the typical MP meaning of the word (45.50-43.75), the market felt to me like sellers just ran out of steam. The subsequent rally took time to establish and although it hasn't yet broken as such in RTH, it failed to really follow through despite having opportunity to do so. So sellers were there but couldn't push and push and buyers failed to follow through from the lowest prices we've seen in Regular Trading Hours for 2 months. Overnight so far, we have seen the market move lower overall. Depending on where we open, I'd want to see a test of at least the value at the low end of yesterday's range if not the low and that 42 area.

 

As I am finishing up this post we've ironically just tested the 45.75. There you go. It'll be important to see what happens between now and RTH open and at what price we open.

[The Abyss 10]

I agree Negoatiator. I think this market needs to test that 42.50 level during reg hrs again. If there is any real support down here it may be strongest between 42.50 and the March low of 38.50.

 

Yesterday's afternoon rally just smelled too much like short term small covering.

[TheNegotiator 13]

I agree Negoatiator. I think this market needs to test that 42.50 level during reg hrs again. If there is any real support down here it may be strongest between 42.50 and the March low of 38.50.

 

Yesterday's afternoon rally just smelled too much like short term small covering.

 

Although there is a "level" at 41.75 and the 42.50 ETH low, I would actually like to see a test of 40.25 which is a prior balance vpoc. Below and it could fairly quickly slide to 25.50/26.00.

 

[joshdance 10]

So what about yesterday?

 

Have not stopped by or looked at charts here much lately but happened to see this one N, thanks. You mention my name in there.. was that an error?

[joshdance 10]

On Monday night I watched for the p3 on the ST. There's too much time to kill in AS trading but I always look to play the ST p3 regardless of RTH or AS. In any case, I thought I might get an entry above the RTH high in the overnight session. The 10m container was the place to be. I got 66.5 on the FBO of the RTL and set a stop at 68.25 once price resumed into the container. This was a little after my last post on TL and I left the screens as I was getting a bit cranky. Around London open I checked the market and saw the trade was working nicely. There had been another FBO on the fanned RTL and the sentiment was still short. I moved the stop to a wash+ at 66.25 and went to sleep. I felt pretty good that the p3 was in at that point.

 

 

Glad to hear that you had a nice profit on the short. Yes, you have to watch out for the obvious horizontals that everyone is watching. I call horizontals "dummy lines" because they are the only lines dummies use. When everyone expects something to happen in the market, it's unlikely to happen. The fast and direct move to S was a warning to me that AM was gonna end early. 8:50 is the usual time I watch for.

 

Horizontal lines are also the only lines which have no slope and therefore are the same on all charts, which cannot be said for trend lines. You might call horizontal lines "objective lines" and trend lines "subjective lines." I know you disagree with this, but unless all people have the same method of drawing a trendline, then they are subjective, and this is a fact. I "KNOW" this gosu.

 

Can you post a shot of the chart you're talking about in your first paragraph? I just can't picture it because of your foreign language. Also, is there a thread which has a concise collection of these terms and how they are applied, short of the black hole nonsense that is the "price/volume relationship" thread?

[TheNegotiator 13]

Have not stopped by or looked at charts here much lately but happened to see this one N, thanks. You mention my name in there.. was that an error?

 

No it wasn't. I was pointing it out because it was a nice example of what you mentioned in your Pre-Open Plans and Hypotheses thread. This was a PR trade I was talking about.

[clmacdougall 11]

Horizontal lines are also the only lines which have no slope and therefore are the same on all charts, which cannot be said for trend lines. You might call horizontal lines "objective lines" and trend lines "subjective lines." I know you disagree with this, but unless all people have the same method of drawing a trendline, then they are subjective, and this is a fact. I "KNOW" this gosu.

 

Can you post a shot of the chart you're talking about in your first paragraph? I just can't picture it because of your foreign language. Also, is there a thread which has a concise collection of these terms and how they are applied, short of the black hole nonsense that is the "price/volume relationship" thread?

 

Couldn't agree with you more on the subjectivity of trend lines!!

[joshdance 10]

No it wasn't. I was pointing it out because it was a nice example of what you mentioned in your Pre-Open Plans and Hypotheses thread. This was a PR trade I was talking about.

 

Oh ok -- well I posted in another thread yesterday about the fact that I took that very long, so I was not sure.