Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

StevenSJC

Why the S&P E-Mini Stinks

Recommended Posts

Reading one of the posts just above I can say with 100% certainty guaranteed failure will come if you used those preset fixed targets - above it says 2 points and 4 points. That's a recipe for assured disaster. If I've learned anything in the years of trading futures it's never to use a fixed target and stop. It doesn't work.

 

I remember back in the earlier 2000s my typical target on the S&P was 8 points on a daytrade. Can you imagine that now? And that was multiple times a day opportunity.

 

Make sure you figure out a way that has you adjusting your target/stops with market range/volatility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Reading one of the posts just above I can say with 100% certainty guaranteed failure will come if you used those preset fixed targets - above it says 2 points and 4 points. That's a recipe for assured disaster. If I've learned anything in the years of trading futures it's never to use a fixed target and stop. It doesn't work.

 

I remember back in the earlier 2000s my typical target on the S&P was 8 points on a daytrade. Can you imagine that now? And that was multiple times a day opportunity.

 

Make sure you figure out a way that has you adjusting your target/stops with market range/volatility.

 

Your completely right buts its VERY difficult to think of a way. I was thinking of incorporating some type of volality study to monitor daily, possible ATR? I think i did some backtesting but it was inconsistent. Any suggestions?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Your completely right buts its VERY difficult to think of a way. I was thinking of incorporating some type of volality study to monitor daily, possible ATR? I think i did some backtesting but it was consistent. Any suggestions?

 

Why not consider how large the range is on the first hour of trading, along with using a relative volume study that tells you whether we are above or below average or median? It's not perfect but it will keep your expectations realistic perhaps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Your completely right buts its VERY difficult to think of a way. I was thinking of incorporating some type of volality study to monitor daily, possible ATR? I think i did some backtesting but it was inconsistent. Any suggestions?

 

Using ATR and also Standard Deviation for stop-losses and profit targets seems to be quite common. It's usually pretty easy to set up on your chart by adapting an exisiting indicator (such as the Keltner Channel for ATR or the Bollinger Bands for Standard Deviation). Commonly, you'd want to leave the number of periods over which the volatility measure is calculated at an appropriate level (usually something shorter than the default though - you might look at something like the last 8 periods), but drop the average around which the bands are plotted down to 1 (ie. just the close).

 

This means that the channel will now plot, for example, 1.5 eight-period Average True Ranges above the closing price - if you enter on the close then your profit target is the upper band. Obviously you can adjust the number of ATRs you wish to target.

 

A slightly more sophisticated method is to use plot the upper band based ATRs/SDevs of the high price, around a one period average of the highs, and the lower band based based ATRs/SDevs of the low price, around a one period average of the lows. The idea here is to make a distinction between bullish volatility and bearish volatility.

 

If you happen to use TradeStation as your trading platform, then I can probably post some EL code for this.

 

Hope that's helpful, and doesn't just read as complete gibberish!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Using ATR and also Standard Deviation for stop-losses and profit targets seems to be quite common. It's usually pretty easy to set up on your chart by adapting an exisiting indicator (such as the Keltner Channel for ATR or the Bollinger Bands for Standard Deviation). Commonly, you'd want to leave the number of periods over which the volatility measure is calculated at an appropriate level (usually something shorter than the default though - you might look at something like the last 8 periods), but drop the average around which the bands are plotted down to 1 (ie. just the close).

 

This means that the channel will now plot, for example, 1.5 eight-period Average True Ranges above the closing price - if you enter on the close then your profit target is the upper band. Obviously you can adjust the number of ATRs you wish to target.

 

A slightly more sophisticated method is to use plot the upper band based ATRs/SDevs of the high price, around a one period average of the highs, and the lower band based based ATRs/SDevs of the low price, around a one period average of the lows. The idea here is to make a distinction between bullish volatility and bearish volatility.

 

If you happen to use TradeStation as your trading platform, then I can probably post some EL code for this.

 

Hope that's helpful, and doesn't just read as complete gibberish!

 

I will definitely look into this, looks like a really good option. My only problem with Bollinger bands and even the keltner channels is that i trade the pit session chart so usually there a gap on my chart. Therefore the bands completely play up for the first hour or so. Maybe i'll keep up a full session chart. But thanks for the suggestion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why not consider how large the range is on the first hour of trading, along with using a relative volume study that tells you whether we are above or below average or median? It's not perfect but it will keep your expectations realistic perhaps.

 

The only problem is that i quiet often place a trade in the first hour if its a strong open, so i would have no idea how to set the targets till a lot later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The only problem is that i quiet often place a trade in the first hour if its a strong open, so i would have no idea how to set the targets till a lot later.

 

Look at the globex volume up until the open. Plot it against a 20 or 30 day median, and see where it is in relation to it at the open. Look at the globex range. Look at the volume on the first two or three minutes of the RTH session-- do a statistical analysis (don't be scared) and see if there is a correlation between any of these things (globex range, globex volume, first three minutes volume of pit session) and the range of the RTH session. I have no idea if there is, but my gut says there is some, but again, not too hard to run an analysis on this with the right software.

 

Ultimately the market should say where your stop should be initially, and it will incidentally be higher or lower depending on the volatility. For example, if the prior low that you feel price should not reach is 1.5 points down, a 2 point stop will do. If it's 3 points away and you really think that's where it should be, you'll have to either risk more, or pass on the trade. Same for targets. Where do you think it will go given the current behavior of the market; look at today's ES for example. I took a trade whose target was 1311.00 (I was stopped BE early on) because I based that target on the chart, AND given the low volume, I felt it was reasonable; I should not hope for 30 points on a day like today, for example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My only problem with Bollinger bands and even the keltner channels is that i trade the pit session chart so usually there a gap on my chart. Therefore the bands completely play up for the first hour or so.

 

I know exactly what you mean - I experience the same frustrations as I only trade the S&P cash session. If you happen to be using TradeStation then there is a simple way around this problem (but unfortunately I can't help you with any other charting package)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there anyway to pick what the best days to trade the ES market on facts regarding volume, volatility, news annoucments etc etc. I don't have a back testing software and was wondering if people had noticed any correlations with good trending days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is there anyway to pick what the best days to trade the ES market on facts regarding volume, volatility, news annoucments etc etc......
Not in today's market and not for a long time anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is there anyway to pick what the best days to trade the ES market on facts regarding volume, volatility, news annoucments etc etc. I don't have a back testing software and was wondering if people had noticed any correlations with good trending days.

 

I trade smaller on Monday and Friday, a lot of times Monday is a gap and go day so there may only be one entry into the trend. Tues-Thurs is when a lot of the money is made during the week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to react on the OP.

 

50 is a joke. I trade 50 contracts on the 6E on normal market hours and I get a fill instantly.

 

I have personally traded over 150 contracts on the ES and got instant fills.

 

A friend trader has placed 2000 contracts and got a fill on the ES.

 

If you think 50 contracts is a problem getting a fill you have never traded 50 contracts on the ES.

 

I have traded the ES on a daily basis and my last losing day is more than 40 days ago. I'm profitable every month on the ES.

 

If there is anybody who doesn't believe it. I'm willing to attest that officially by somebody who officially edits my account at Interactive Brokers.

 

This thread is nonsense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
.........

If there is anybody who doesn't believe it. I'm willing to attest that officially by somebody who officially edits my account at Interactive Brokers.

 

This thread is nonsense.

Well if it wasn't it sure is now.

 

Officially edits :haha:

 

The word is audit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well if it wasn't it sure is now.

 

Officially edits :haha:

 

The word is audit.

 

 

Haha, that's really funny, sorry my first langauge isn't english.

 

I can't edit that post either.

 

But still, my offer is there, if there is somebody willing to officially audit my trading account no problem for me.

 

I also want to point out, today was a medium slow day trading for me the ES but fills were no problem at all. I only traded with 20 contracts.

 

It is true that EPiQ (estimated position in the que) of software I use (X-trader) helps, but it's typically for a losing trader to blame it on the instrument.

 

In fact, I need guys like the OP to make money. i hope they keep doing what they do.

 

THANKS FOR THE MONEY ANYWAY.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have to react on the OP.

 

50 is a joke. I trade 50 contracts on the 6E on normal market hours and I get a fill instantly.

 

I have personally traded over 150 contracts on the ES and got instant fills.

 

A friend trader has placed 2000 contracts and got a fill on the ES.

 

If you think 50 contracts is a problem getting a fill you have never traded 50 contracts on the ES.

 

I have traded the ES on a daily basis and my last losing day is more than 40 days ago. I'm profitable every month on the ES.

 

If there is anybody who doesn't believe it. I'm willing to attest that officially by somebody who officially edits my account at Interactive Brokers.

 

This thread is nonsense.

 

You trade 50 clips ES with IB? Why? You are getting jacked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You trade 50 clips ES with IB? Why? You are getting jacked.

 

I don't only trade on IB, I'm also with Velocity and Deepdiscounttrading.

 

I just called out IB because I thought you guys would accept it more easely :-)

 

I'm profitable on all 3 accounts.

 

I pay $3.32 for 1 ES trade RoundTrip ALL IN (so including clearing & exchange, NFA Fee, commission)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

" It's very difficult at times to get a fill unless price moves through your price."

That happens in every very liquid market that exists.

 

"More important is the chart that showed Average Yearly Tick Movement across all the major index futures. Lowest rank? The S&P e-mini vs. the Dow, Nasdaq, Russell small and mid-cap."

What is "Average Yearly Tick Movement" and what is its significance?

It is not clear what you are recommending: Russell 2000 (small or mid-cap?) (mini) futures as a better trade for the small trader than the emini S&P?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Doesn't ES just trade tick for tick off of SP?

How can there be much of an arb?

 

As Sting once wrote in a song:

 

I will turn your face to alabaster

Then you'll find your servant is your master.

 

ES rules now even when factoring in it being 1/5th the size of SP so the arb is the other way.

 

Today 1.7m contracts traded vs under 10k

 

But it does exist, only in fractional seconds though for the guys along side the pit.

Edited by SunTrader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 4th April 2025.   USDJPY Falls to 25-Week Low as Safe Havens Surge and Markets Eye NFP Data.   Safe haven currencies and the traditional alternative to the US Dollar continue to increase in value while the Dollar declines. Investors traditionally opt to invest in the Japanese Yen and Swiss Franc at times of uncertainty and when they wish to avoid the Dollar. The Japanese Yen continues to be the best-performing currency of the week and of the day. Will this continue to be the case after today’s US employment figures?   USDJPY - NFP Data And Trade Negotiations The USDJPY is currently trading at a 25-week low and is witnessing one of its strongest declines this week. The exchange rate is no longer obtaining indications from the RSI that the price is oversold. The current bullish swing is obtaining indications of divergence as the price fails to form a higher high. Therefore, short-term momentum is in favour of the US Dollar, but there are still signs the Japanese Yen can regain momentum quickly.       USDJPY 1-Hour Chart     The price movement of the exchange rate in both the short and long term will depend on 3 factors. Today’s US employment data, next week’s inflation rate and most importantly the progress of negotiations between the US and trade partners. If today’s Unemployment Rate increases above 4.1%, the reading will be the highest seen so far in 2025. Currently, the market expects the Unemployment Rate to remain at 4.1% and the Non-Farm Payroll Change to add 137,000 jobs. The average NFP reading this year so far has been 194,000.   If data does not meet expectations, US investors may continue to increase exposure away from the Dollar and to other safe-haven assets. Previously investors were expecting only 2 rate cuts this year from the Federal Reserve, however, most investors now expect up to 4. If today’s employment data deteriorates, economists advise the Federal Reserve may opt to cut interest rates sooner.   Therefore, it is important to note that today’s NFP will influence the USDJPY to a large extent. Whereas in the longer-term, trade negotiations will steal the spotlight. If trade partners are able to negotiate the US Dollar can correct back upwards. Whereas, if other countries retaliate and do not negotiate the US Dollar will remain weak.   USDJPY - The Yen and the Bank of Japan The Japanese Yen is the best-performing currency in 2025 increasing by 6.70% so far. Risk indicators such as the VIX and High-Low Indexes continue to worsen which is positive for the JPY as a safe haven currency.   Yesterday Japan released March business activity data that came in weaker than expected: the Services PMI dropped from 53.7 to 50.0, while the Composite PMI fell from 52.0 to 48.9. The data is the lowest in two years. These figures could hinder further interest rate hikes by the Bank of Japan. However, most economists still expect the Bank Of Japan to hike at least once more. It's also important to note, that even if the BOJ opts for a prolonged pause, a cut is not likely.   Additionally, a 24% tariff was imposed on Japanese exports to the US yesterday. Prime Minister Mr Ishiba expressed disappointment over Japan's failure to secure a tariff exemption and pledged support measures to help domestic industries manage the impact.   Key Takeaway Points: US Dollar Weakens, Safe Havens Rise: The Japanese Yen and Swiss Franc continue to gain as investors shift away from the US Dollar. USDJPY Under Pressure: USDJPY trades at a 25-week low, with short-term momentum favouring the Dollar but long-term trends pointing to potential Yen strength. NFP and Unemployment Crucial: Today’s Non-Farm Payrolls and unemployment figures will heavily influence short-term USDJPY. On the other hand, trade negotiations will dictate longer-term trends. Japan Faces Mixed Signals: Despite weak PMI data and new US tariffs, the Japanese Yen remains strong. Economists expect at least one more rate hike from the Bank of Japan, but no cuts are in sight. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • YUM Yum Brands stock, nice breakout with volume +34.5%, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?YUM
    • Date: 3rd April 2025.   Gold Prices Pull Back After Record High as Traders Eye Trump’s Tariffs.   Key Takeaways:   Gold prices retreated after hitting a record high of $3,167.57 per ounce due to profit-taking. President Trump announced a 10% baseline tariff on all US imports, escalating trade tensions. Gold remains exempt from reciprocal tariffs, reinforcing its safe-haven appeal. Investors await US non-farm payroll data for further market direction. Fed rate cut bets and weaker US Treasury yields underpin gold’s bullish outlook. Gold Prices Retreat from Record Highs Amid Profit-Taking Gold prices saw a pullback on Thursday as traders opted to take profits following a historic surge. Spot gold declined 0.4% to $3,122.10 per ounce as of 0710 GMT, retreating from its fresh all-time high of $3,167.57. Meanwhile, US gold futures slipped 0.7% to $3,145.00 per ounce, reflecting broader market uncertainty over economic and geopolitical developments.   The recent rally was largely fueled by concerns over escalating trade tensions after President Donald Trump unveiled sweeping new import tariffs. The 10% baseline tariff on all goods entering the US further deepened the global trade conflict, intensifying investor demand for safe-haven assets like gold. However, as traders locked in gains from the surge, prices saw a modest retracement.   Trump’s Tariffs and Their Market Implications On Wednesday, Trump introduced a sweeping tariff policy imposing a 10% baseline duty on all imports, with significantly higher tariffs on select nations. While this move was aimed at bolstering domestic manufacturing, it sent shockwaves across global markets, fueling inflation concerns and heightening trade war fears.   Gold’s Role Amid Trade War Escalations Despite the widespread tariff measures, the White House clarified that reciprocal tariffs do not apply to gold, energy, and ‘certain minerals that are not available in the US’. This exemption suggests that central banks and institutional investors may continue favouring gold as a hedge against economic instability. One of the key factors supporting gold is the slowdown that these tariffs could cause in the US economy, which raises the likelihood of future Federal Reserve rate cuts. Gold is currently in a pure momentum trade. Market participants are on the sidelines and until we see a significant shakeout, this momentum could persist.   Impact on the US Dollar and Bond Yields Gold prices typically move inversely to the US dollar, and the latest developments have pushed the dollar to its weakest level since October 2024. Market participants are increasingly pricing in the possibility of a Fed rate cut, as the tariffs could weigh on economic growth.   Additionally, US Treasury yields have plummeted, reflecting growing recession fears. Lower bond yields reduce the opportunity cost of holding non-yielding assets like gold, making it a more attractive investment.         Technical Analysis: Key Levels to Watch Gold’s recent rally has pushed it into overbought territory, with the Relative Strength Index (RSI) above 70. This indicates a potential short-term pullback before the uptrend resumes. The immediate support level lies at $3,115, aligning with the Asian session low. A further decline could bring gold towards the $3,100 psychological level, which has previously acted as a strong support zone. Below this, the $3,076–$3,057 region represents a critical weekly support range where buyers may re-enter the market. In the event of a more significant correction, $3,000 stands as a major psychological floor.   On the upside, gold faces immediate resistance at $3,149. A break above this level could signal renewed bullish momentum, potentially leading to a retest of the record high at $3,167. If bullish momentum persists, the next target is the $3,200 psychological barrier, which could pave the way for further gains. Despite the recent pullback, the broader trend remains bullish, with dips likely to be viewed as buying opportunities.   Looking Ahead: Non-Farm Payrolls and Fed Policy Traders are closely monitoring Friday’s US non-farm payrolls (NFP) report, which could provide critical insights into the Federal Reserve’s next policy moves. A weaker-than-expected jobs report may strengthen expectations for an interest rate cut, further boosting gold prices.   Other key economic data releases, such as jobless claims and the ISM Services PMI, may also impact market sentiment in the short term. However, with rising geopolitical uncertainties, trade tensions, and a weakening US dollar, gold’s safe-haven appeal remains strong.   Conclusion: While short-term profit-taking may trigger minor corrections, gold’s long-term outlook remains bullish. As global trade tensions mount and the Federal Reserve leans toward a more accommodative stance, gold could see further gains in the months ahead.   Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Andria Pichidi HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • AMZN Amazon stock, nice buying at the 187.26 triple+ support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?AMZN
    • DELL Dell Technologies stock, good day moving higher off the 90.99 double support area, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?DELL
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.