Traders Laboratory Forex Trading Contest!

[Mysticforex 13]

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This is Wild.

[ForexTraderX 10]

Aright Mystic.... at risk of sounding like a completely fickle individual, after watching this thread and the way folks are trading, I am a bit sorry I didn't join in.

 

On a further note regarding real money, I know from experience in online poker tournaments that if there is any entry fee, or if people are playing for real money, as little as 1 cent or 2 cent bets, the game is RADICALLY different than if it is played purely for "points", or as a tourney (with prizes) but requires no entry fee.

 

In my very limited experience, offering a prize of any sort increases the amount of "cowboy play" in a tournament if it is a free tournament.

 

Requiring some actual money be put up to enter or participate dramatically reduces cowboy play.

 

Probably the "purest" competition would be to require a real money account to be traded for participation, but give no prizes. Although limiting drawdown as your original intention was whether it is real or paper account probably does something very similar to real money, no prizes.

 

Just thinking out loud here... I will say I am looking forward to the next one.

[ForexTraderX 10]

Mostly play money contestants. Not many real money contests out there, although the prize money is real, so there is a real incentive to make it to the finish line.

 

Varengold Bank has been one of the few contests that i've seen that actually weighs in the volatility of the % gains throughout the contest without restricting the trader's ability to trade. They call it "risk-adjusted rate of return", which takes a standard deviation of the difference of the daily account balance for each trading day. That's why someone with only 30% gross returns but has low risk trades can still have a high risk-adjusted rate of return and an equal chance to win the contest. Using a flat 'no more than x% drawdown' is a more artificial barrier and does not give certain traders the room to execute their strategies fully.

 

Turns out someone decided to use their brain when determining the yardstick by which to measure results. a risk adjusted ROR is actually a shit hot way of doing this. it keeps is 100% pure without any arbitrary restrictions and yet gives the answer to the REAL question which is: who can make the greatest return with the least amount of risk.

 

For example, the last 4 weeks I'm up about 9% in my account. but my drawdown from any given day end to the following day end is less than 2%.

 

Now, you could take another guy, and he could have a 99% ROI for the same 4 weeks, but if his drawdown day to day is 40%.... well, I would argue that I'm the better trader, even though I made far less than him in terms of ROI. OF course, if he did a 99% ROI with only an 8% drawdown, I'd say he probably is the better trader.

 

I like it a lot. And I think it would be the perfect solution to this situation. furthermore, myfxbook is already equipped to provide those numbers if i'm not mistaken.

 

this idea has got my vote anyway.

[4EverMaAT 10]

Turns out someone decided to use their brain when determining the yardstick by which to measure results. a risk adjusted ROR is actually a shit hot way of doing this. it keeps is 100% pure without any arbitrary restrictions and yet gives the answer to the REAL question which is: who can make the greatest return with the least amount of risk.

 

For example, the last 4 weeks I'm up about 9% in my account. but my drawdown from any given day end to the following day end is less than 2%.

 

Now, you could take another guy, and he could have a 99% ROI for the same 4 weeks, but if his drawdown day to day is 40%.... well, I would argue that I'm the better trader, even though I made far less than him in terms of ROI. OF course, if he did a 99% ROI with only an 8% drawdown, I'd say he probably is the better trader.

The Varengold bank contest winners were actually part 1 of a larger follow-on challenge to trade real money accounts. They used to offer cash prizes, with the 1st place winner eligible for trading a managed account somewhere between 250k-$1m, and they get . The last contest there were no immediate cash winners, but the top 3 were eligible to be flown out to headquarters to trade a large account and they get a % of the profits.

 

The point is that VG want to make sure that the same method used to win the contest will be used to continue winning when the trader migrates to a live account. It was almost like an american idol for trading; the larger goal was searching for real talent.

 

I like it a lot. And I think it would be the perfect solution to this situation. furthermore, myfxbook is already equipped to provide those numbers if i'm not mistaken.

 

this idea has got my vote anyway.

Technically any of the contest hosts can create their own Risk Adjustment (or use the standard deviation model that varengold bank used), but they choose not to. i think the Risk Adjusted ROI of 352% isn't as aesthetically pleasing as gross 12,000% ROI.

[ForexTraderX 10]

Technically any of the contest hosts can create their own Risk Adjustment (or use the standard deviation model that varengold bank used), but they choose not to. i think the Risk Adjusted ROI of 352% isn't as aesthetically pleasing as gross 12,000% ROI.

 

I think this is an extremely profound statement that reflects many of the more "depressing" (for lack of a better word) realities of trading, traders, and the trading industry as a whole.

 

of all the many hundereds (thousands?) of trading contests out there... it's possible that only this one, by varengold bank, is actually interested in "discovering" a serious, professional trader", one who has the experience and skill to be able to trade in such a manner that is stable and consistent enough to actually have real investors trust them enough to invest their real money that they likely expect to grow for many years to come.

 

yet so few "retail traders" even question risk adjusted ROI's, or drawdown, etc.

 

It seems that nearly all people who want to become a successful retail forex trader are essentially only interested in maximum returns, and the fact that so few even question why drawdown would be "capped", or would likely be dumbfounded as to why any competition would be judged based on anything other than absolute return!

 

the most obvious conclusion to me would be simply that contest organizers and the various entities who affiliate or sponser them have actually no interest at all in rewarding or even finding legitimate, consistent traders who are likely to be successful for years. It's really just to excite the cheerleading squad for "team trading!"

 

and whats more.... the overwhelming vast majority of people who attempt to trade at the retail level don't have even the most basic understanding of the skills necessary to even have a chance to make a living at this as a career.

 

And finally, it seems that both the retail trading vendor, and the aspiring retail trader, are perfectly happy with this reality.

 

I guess there is a lot more money selling a pipe dream than being a plumber.

 

and I guess most would rather be excited by a bullshit story, than be excited by the reality of learning how to make a great living from home.

 

oh well. more free money for some of us I guess.

[Mysticforex 13]

We are at the halfway point.

 

Anyone interested in a new contest for October ???

[4EverMaAT 10]

We are at the halfway point.

 

Anyone interested in a new contest for October ???

 

same oanda, or different broker? different platform (metatrader)?

[Mysticforex 13]

same oanda, or different broker? different platform (metatrader)?

 

 

The only one I know well enough to administer is Oanda. If you or anyone else knows a platform well enough to host a contest that's fine as well.

[Obsidian 10]

same oanda, or different broker? different platform (metatrader)?

 

oanda supports mt4 and you can join the contest with that mt4 subaccount

(click on "add account" and then "advanced options")

[Mysticforex 13]

Thanks for that Obsidian!

[Mysticforex 13]

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[4EverMaAT 10]

oanda supports mt4 and you can join the contest with that mt4 subaccount

(click on "add account" and then "advanced options")

 

Good to know....although Oanda did a bad job integrating mt4 (compared with most other brokers). Maybe they improved their; i'll have to see.

 

Does oanda still shut down during news announcements?

[bobcollett 10]

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Looks like the cream has risen to the top

bobc

[Obsidian 10]

Good to know....although Oanda did a bad job integrating mt4 (compared with most other brokers). Maybe they improved their; i'll have to see.

 

Does oanda still shut down during news announcements?

 

their mt4 is running smooth...cant remember when was the last time I had any connecting issues during news-events...

 

meanwhile, earlier today opened 2 trades, shorted gbp/usd but was too busy to post here..

[ForexTraderX 10]

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Dang Mystic, now I really should have signed up for this. I'd be in the lead since starting the myfxbook thing... and actually caught 2ish% for the first two trading days of the month (days not pictured in myfxbook) so I'd be close to 6% up

 

although, I did have a seizure and drawdown 6ish% at one numbskulled moment, so that may have DQ'd me anyway.

 

oh well, next time I will do it, and win. unless that one guy signs up who had 50ish% ROI's and 2% drawdowns in a single month. thats just sick.

[Mysticforex 13]

Dang Mystic, now I really should have signed up for this. I'd be in the lead since starting the myfxbook thing... and actually caught 2ish% for the first two trading days of the month (days not pictured in myfxbook) so I'd be close to 6% up

 

although, I did have a seizure and drawdown 6ish% at one numbskulled moment, so that may have DQ'd me anyway.

 

oh well, next time I will do it, and win. unless that one guy signs up who had 50ish% ROI's and 2% drawdowns in a single month. thats just sick.

 

Yes, hindsight is always 20/20.

[Mysticforex 13]

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[Ingot54 13]

Looks like the cream has risen to the top

bobc

Gosh, Bob ... should I be depressed? :embarassed::embarassed:

 

I got in on a swing, and ended up in a position trade - pretty happy with it, and will

end the contest in the black .... or some time next month maybeeee

 

Are you entering next month?

[bobcollett 10]

Gosh, Bob ... should I be depressed? :embarassed::embarassed:

 

I got in on a swing, and ended up in a position trade - pretty happy with it, and will

end the contest in the black .... or some time next month maybeeee

 

Are you entering next month?

 

Hi Ingot

I knew my post would get you out of bed.

The only way you are going to get back in the black is to double your bet.

No . I am not entering your context next month

I dont trade forex. I do follow the $ closely because it affects my fundamentals

Especially Gold.

I also believe that contests can change your live trading, not necessarily for the better.

 

But if there is another contest, I will put up a small PRIZE $100 to the winner.

Kind regards

bobc

[Ingot54 13]

Hi Ingot

I knew my post would get you out of bed.

The only way you are going to get back in the black is to double your bet.

No . I am not entering your context next month

I dont trade forex. I do follow the $ closely because it affects my fundamentals

Especially Gold.

I also believe that contests can change your live trading, not necessarily for the better.

 

But if there is another contest, I will put up a small PRIZE $100 to the winner.

Kind regards

bobc

Send the cheque now, mate - I've been playing possum to give the others a chance.

 

$100? Small? That's generous mate.

[bobcollett 10]

Send the cheque now, mate - I've been playing possum to give the others a chance.

 

$100? Small? That's generous mate.

 

The cheque is in the post

bobc

[Obsidian 10]

...I also believe that contests can change your live trading, not necessarily for the better....

 

that is true...even on a demo account, people should stick to their rules.

[Mysticforex 13]

Inlight of a prize being offered I shall of recluse myself from next months competition.

[Ingot54 13]

Inlight of a prize being offered I shall of recluse myself from next months competition.

I wouldn't like to see you miss the contest, Mystic. I am certain others would not object to your continuing participation - particularly since you have no chance

of winning.

 

After all we have ForexTraderX and Obsidian to beat ... and of course myself!

 

Everyone can see that I am a late finisher ... :embarassed: Apparently Bob has already mailed the $100 to me.

[kuokam 10]

may I know why so ? Is it forbidden by some rules?

 

Inlight of a prize being offered I shall of recluse myself from next months competition.