Your Mama Doesn't Trade ... So Wise Up to Yourself!

[Ingot54 13]

Dear Rande, thank you for your words!! I am actually a big fan of what you say - various self-improvement methods

starting from past-life regressions to using vibrational essences.

 

Interesting, Kaiser. Could you please elaborate on :

 

a) "various self-improvement methods starting from past-life regressions" eg what do you mean by that?

 

and

 

b) " using vibrational essences" eg what are these "vibrational essences" and how are they applicable to successful trading?

 

 

That has helped me a lot but not enough to be a good trader.

 

How did it help you?

What else, other than "past life regressions" and "vibrational essences" do you think might be required in order to be a good trader?

 

 

After some period of trading I found I was pre-programmed for loosing money.

 

How did you discover that you were "pre-programmed to losing money"?

 

I would be happy to know what you recommend to overcome these psychological obstacles.

 

What is your advice for self-development?

 

Thank you again, Pavel, Czech Republic.

 

I too would be interested to know the answers.

 

We could be looking at some major breakthroughs here ... or not!

 

Obviously Rande has not picked up on these kinds of issues that you have - but he is very happy to offer you his help anyway,

regardless of whether you might really be a suitable candidate for learning to trade well or not, through his therapeutic approach and intervention .

 

I would have expected a trained psychologist to have asked the questions that I raised - but he seemed to skim over everything

you said, and went straight into his marketing spiel. You will learn how to confront demons - psychological ones - and you

will get a free webinar to convince you of your pathology, plus a book which you must pay for.

 

By the time you have:

 

1) experienced the free webinar,

 

and

 

2) read the book, you will indeed be:

 

a) convinced your trading problems are in your head

 

and

 

b) Rande has the answers and the exact therapy you will need to get you to the success club.

 

Obviously all you have taken away from this thread is that you need someone to hold your hand while you excuse yourself from

taking responsibility for your failed trading experience.

 

I strongly suggest you heed the clues that the esoteric Mr Howell has given you, that he is truly unable to assist you:

 

If you're looking for magic though, don't look here.

 

but it should be a fun time anyway, as you spend your way to the end of the course, only to discover that everything you need

to do is already contained in this thread ... for free ... particularly in post #1 ... here:

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f37/your-mama-doesnt-trade-so-wise-9278.html

 

There are indeed golden keys that fit the door to the executive washroom ... but they are earned, not bought.

[MightyMouse 12]

Dear Rande, thank you for your words!! I am actually a big fan of what you say - various self-improvement methods starting from past-life regressions to using vibrational essences. That has helped me a lot but not enough to be a good trader. After some period of trading I found I was pre-programmed for loosing money. I would be happy to know what you recommend to overcome these psychological obstacles.

 

I know of people who offer hypnotic sessions, Neuro Lingvistic Programming etc. What is your advice for self-development?

 

Thank you again, Pavel, Czech Republic.

 

My wife uses vibrational essences in the bedroom. It doesn't seem to have helped her to be a good trader either, but like yourself, it seems to have helped her a lot. It seems a little too invasive for me to try.

[johnw 10]

Every time I hear someone recommend a good trading book - out trot the old chestnuts ... Mark Douglas, Van K Tharpe, Brett Steenbarger, Janice Dorn, Curtis faith, Rick Bookstabber and even Jack Schwager ... all come out as "the best book I ever read" ... or ... "the book I would recommend first."

.....................................................!

 

Hi Ingot54,

 

After reading some of your posts, I have to say that you have an amazingly tight grip upon yourself.

Judging by the number of "thank you" many others have a very real appreciation for all your efforts in bringing discipline into trading, so you are in the right place here at TL.

 

I have been to Hervey Bay many years ago. Went out to Fraser Island and went Whale cruising ... interesting place.

We rented a car in Port Douglas and drove to Brisbane in lazy style ..eat some of the best food ever at Noosa.

[Ingot54 13]

Hi Ingot54,

 

After reading some of your posts, I have to say that you have an amazingly tight grip upon yourself.

Judging by the number of "thank you" many others have a very real appreciation for all your efforts in bringing discipline into trading, so you are in the right place here at TL.

 

I have been to Hervey Bay many years ago. Went out to Fraser Island and went Whale cruising ... interesting place.

We rented a car in Port Douglas and drove to Brisbane in lazy style ..eat some of the best food ever at Noosa.

 

Thank you John. We have not been here long - it is very "country" in the Provincial sense, and suits our needs at the moment. We like it. I think people who Google "Hervey Bay Queensland" will get an amazing surprise when they view the satellite map of our area - truly amazing fishing, and a quiet lifestyle with city services (mostly).

 

I believe all people are the same - we just want to get to the bottom of things, and then share what we have found with others who are also seeking.

 

I believe in the goodness of human nature - but sometimes the human being can lose sight of the bigger picture, when they opt to take the easy road to a few quick dollars.

 

My goal in trading has never been to become wealthy, though if I ever get a decent handle on it, I would surely welcome that outcome.

 

No - my goal is to make a smooth transition from my current vocation, to trading for a similar income. It is not such a big ask ... but at the same time, it is not an easy thing. The next step is to reach out to help others do the same.

 

Why would I want to do that?

 

Remember Abraham Maslow's "Hierarchy of Human Needs"? (Google it for greater understanding)

 

1. Physiological needs

2. Safety needs

3. Love and belonging

4. Esteem

5. Cognitive needs

6. Aesthetic needs

7. Self-actualisation

8. Self-transcendence ( this one does not appear on the pyramid attached below, but is recognised today as a legitimate need).

 

The latter couple of points have become a little blurred over the years, as people have sought to add to the list. But it matters not whether they are in the correct order, or whether we have them all, or whether we have stuffed the list around in other ways.

 

What really matters is that we understand that there IS a list, and that if we can achieve the steps upwards as we live our lives, then we "should" be living a fairly contented existence, and perhaps we might call ourselves "happy."

 

I hope so - because I do get a buzz out of making some kind of difference - even if my approach is sometimes too verbose, or even if I am sometimes too simplistic, too altruistic, or a bit too wide of the mark. It does not matter - I am teachable ... like the rest of us I hope - and learning persists throughout life.

 

The point of this essay is to highlight why it is that people don't just keep good stuff to themselves. And this is where Maslow comes into it ... in my view ...

 

... Transcendence

 

This is the bit where we get out of ourselves and our selfishness, and reach out to others ... not with a "hand-out" but with a "hand-up." To me, there is no greater buzz than to be able to help a fellow human being to achieve a little better situation than he might have otherwise had.

 

Don't you agree?

 

Whether he deserves it or not does not come into it. The fact that he is needy, is everything. We simply do not know when an act of kindness will have a knock-on effect for goodness, and when it might make a mighty difference in the world.

 

In January it was reported that the Tunisian President's wife took 1.5 tons of gold with her when they fled the country (Google for it). Whether this was true or not is immaterial. The situation is, that somebody thought they were privileged, and that this entitled them to steal from the country and the people who supported them in their corruption over many years. The people suffered so much that finally they rebelled and ousted the these privileged and corrupt ones, according to reports (who really knows?)

 

Now tell me - how much longer will these people live - and how good will they truly feel about themselves? Where do you think they sit on the Maslow Scale? I would put them at about position 2 - "Safety Needs", because as sure as apples, they can not have

Love and belonging

Esteem

Cognitive enjoyment

Aesthetic enjoyment

Self-Actualisation

and certainly their actions have shown that they are bereft of any Transcendence of self.

 

This is not to judge them - there is only One Judge. No - this is to illustrate the futility of living for greed's sake. The futility of living to rip people off, and to profit through beguiling others. In my work I see the demise of the physical human being in their last days and hours.

 

I can tell you - they don't call for their gold, or their accountant in those hours. No - they call for family and friends.

 

We only have today.

Yesterday is gone.

Tomorrow is a dream.

 

Make it count for goodness, and for goodness' sake.

 

Anyway - back to trading issues - I apologise for the digression.

[SIUYA 11]

in my non expert opinion, but certainly experienced position of watching a lot of people deal with money after working on trading floors and trading rooms - you see a lot of corruption, greed, selfishness - plus the good things....

one thing I do know is that most of the greedy selfish and self centered people sleep very well at night.

The reason being is two fold.....

1) they think that screwing people over is part of a game, and that they expect people to do it, and those that dont are the idiots.

2) they have very short term memories and they lie not only to others but too themselves. That way they convince themselves of their own usually self righteous re-written history.......

its amazing to watch people tell a story a few days later about an event, have ten other people say ""thats not what happened"" and then have the same person look at you and say ""you''re all wrong, I am right - end of story""

 

This may also help explain why many need help in trading......self deception is often a wonderful and yet at the same time a terrible thing.

[steve46 12]

in my non expert opinion, but certainly experienced position of watching a lot of people deal with money after working on trading floors and trading rooms - you see a lot of corruption, greed, selfishness - plus the good things....

one thing I do know is that most of the greedy selfish and self centered people sleep very well at night.

The reason being is two fold.....

1) they think that screwing people over is part of a game, and that they expect people to do it, and those that dont are the idiots.

2) they have very short term memories and they lie not only to others but too themselves. That way they convince themselves of their own usually self righteous re-written history.......

its amazing to watch people tell a story a few days later about an event, have ten other people say ""thats not what happened"" and then have the same person look at you and say ""you''re all wrong, I am right - end of story""

 

This may also help explain why many need help in trading......self deception is often a wonderful and yet at the same time a terrible thing.

 

Clearly our defense mechanisms are there to protect us from discomfort. If we extend that reasoning out somewhat, they become the mechanism that we employ to maintain our self-image (whether true or false) and in the process our view of the world around us.

 

Unfortunately when trying to participate in the financial markets, particularly intraday trading, this mechanism is counter-productive....One difference that I have noticed with skilled traders is that they are emotionally flexible. They can be wrong, and the next minute they are able to adjust to new data and find a way to get on the right side of the market. In contrast, less skilled participants often take a lot of time to adjust to the idea of being wrong. One might say that they decieve themselves hoping that they will be proved right in the end....One of the things you learn if you are able to obtain good training, is that your success depends on being able to unemotionally evaluate your actions and adjust to the data.....In fact there are academic studies (one of them at the end of Linda Raschke's book "Street Smarts" that suggest that the longer you take to identify when you are wrong and correct yourself, the more certain it is that you will fail in the markets...I agree with you Siuya

[MightyMouse 12]

It is beginning to seem like there is no way to learn how to trade unless you have good training from an expert trader or a qualified psychologist.

[fajim2004 10]

Stepdaughter was back home for the weekend. Currently she is taking college classes in the evening

and one of the just happens to be physcology.Naturally when I found out I was curious if she had any idea

about trading and phsycology so I began asking general questions about traders not following a trading plan,moving stops,failing to take loses ect.

 

To her this was all related to gambling issues and tied into ones beliefs. These beliefs were formed in

childhood and are ingrained us. She was adamant about this and claimed beliefs are very difficult to change on one's own without the help of a trained psycologist.

 

Now I just thought I'd pass this along as some of you might find this interesting. Keep in mind that the

source is a part time college student that took a semester of pshycology.

To her,

 

 

It is beginning to seem like there is no way to learn how to trade unless you have good training from an expert trader or a qualified psychologist.

[Rande Howell 10]

Interesting comments Ingot54. I had lunch with Jan Arps (Idiot's Guide to Technical Analysis) last week. He was born into a family where he was being taught TA from early on. He hand drew the charts that his father was following. He was taught from a very young age to become a manager of risk and uncertainty. It never occurred to him to glue fear and worry onto uncertainty. In many ways, he is a very fortunate man. He loves trading and has made a good business out of selling TA indicators to traders (Trader's Toolbox).

 

Most of us are born into a world where risk, uncertainty, worry, and fear are associated with one another -- a very different world than Jan Arps. The brain organizes the developing self around the avoidance of threat and trading exposes this association of risk, uncertainty, worry, and fear (now embedded in the neuro-circuitry of perception).

 

Once it is exposed, what are you going to do about it? I know people who push through it like a bull and, end the end, re-build what historical adaptation dealt to them. I know people keep running into the same brick walls over and over again. At some moment, a person has to choose how they will take the bull by the horns and change their perceptual map that they produce effective living (and trading).

 

Staying blind to possibility shuts us off from developing our God-given gifts. Changing perception at the level of flesh is challenging. Ask any dieter or trader. You choose your tools and your path. It's your journey. I am fortunate that I have found good teachers and was willing to listen to them. And, yes, it did cost me money. But not seeking out teachers cost me time and money. The choice is always yours.

 

Rande Howell

[todds 10]

Interesting comments Ingot54. I had lunch with Jan Arps (Idiot's Guide to Technical Analysis) last week. He was born into a family where he was being taught TA from early on. He hand drew the charts that his father was following. He was taught from a very young age to become a manager of risk and uncertainty. It never occurred to him to glue fear and worry onto uncertainty. In many ways, he is a very fortunate man. He loves trading and has made a good business out of selling TA indicators to traders (Trader's Toolbox).

 

Most of us are born into a world where risk, uncertainty, worry, and fear are associated with one another -- a very different world than Jan Arps. The brain organizes the developing self around the avoidance of threat and trading exposes this association of risk, uncertainty, worry, and fear (now embedded in the neuro-circuitry of perception).

 

Once it is exposed, what are you going to do about it? I know people who push through it like a bull and, end the end, re-build what historical adaptation dealt to them. I know people keep running into the same brick walls over and over again. At some moment, a person has to choose how they will take the bull by the horns and change their perceptual map that they produce effective living (and trading).

 

Staying blind to possibility shuts us off from developing our God-given gifts. Changing perception at the level of flesh is challenging. Ask any dieter or trader. You choose your tools and your path. It's your journey. I am fortunate that I have found good teachers and was willing to listen to them. And, yes, it did cost me money. But not seeking out teachers cost me time and money. The choice is always yours.

 

Rande Howell

 

Rande, was Jan's father a successful trader? I'm curious if he was taught at an early age a reliable way of looking at the markets from someone who knew what he was doing, thus avoiding the long process of discovery most of us who do not know such a person have to go through just to get the requisite skills necessary for any chance of success.

[Rande Howell 10]

Rande, was Jan's father a successful trader? I'm curious if he was taught at an early age a reliable way of looking at the markets from someone who knew what he was doing, thus avoiding the long process of discovery most of us who do not know such a person have to go through just to get the requisite skills necessary for any chance of success.

 

 

 

This is an interesting question. Jan's father was also a mechanical engineer as Jan is and was involved with the oil industry as an engineer predicting futures. It was way above my head. So yes, his father knew what he was doing. Jan actually charted by hand for his father's investments and then they would discuss. Both are also brillant men. Jan's curiosity was encouraged and was taught risk management from his father. Now Jan's son, Hawk, is following this line.

 

And, by the way, they are great people. Our conversation was about how develop traders emotionally and psychologically to use the technology better. Of course, Jan can not understand how people become emotionally incapacitated while trading.

 

Rande Howell

[Ingot54 13]

Interesting comments Ingot54. I had lunch with Jan Arps (Idiot's Guide to Technical Analysis) last week. He was born into a family where he was being taught TA from early on. He hand drew the charts that his father was following. He was taught from a very young age to become a manager of risk and uncertainty. It never occurred to him to glue fear and worry onto uncertainty. In many ways, he is a very fortunate man. He loves trading and has made a good business out of selling TA indicators to traders (Trader's Toolbox).

 

Rande - You don't mention that Jan Arps carried other baggage he might have needed to deal with. Perhaps he struggled with the discipline his father imposed on him "from an early age" and perhaps he secretly loathed the trading industry and really wanted to be a sculptor. We are not informed of this side of Jan Arp's psyche - only the feel-good bit that justifies achieving the state of fearless trading.

 

My philosophy of trading is based on such a strong and passionate commitment to mastering my chosen field, that I will endure whatever it takes to become a skilled trader. I believe that the protective methodology I utilise is based on crashing, or crashing through. I and many like me did not have the fortunate (or unfortunate) upbringing that Jan Arps did, and to be honest I have probably enjoyed my trading journey as much as Jan Arps has his. Perception and gratitude are everything in measuring satisfaction and contentment.

 

Success in life, to me, is NOT measured by the dollars I have banked by the end of they year. It is measured by the difference I have been able to make in my journey towards achieving my dream. I am averse to risk (at the moment) because this is how I am dealing with my fear. But - wonder-of-wonders, I AM overcoming my risk-shy nature, and every trade I take teaches me boldness I never knew I possessed.

 

I can NOT get this from a course, a book, a mentor or (and you probably knew I would say this) from a Psychologist. But I AM enjoying the breakthroughs and the small successes. I am not in a hurry, nor do I have an urgency to "succeed." What I do wonder about in those times when I am having difficulty finding "safe" trades (and I have said this publicly here) is whether I am cut from the cloth of a trader. In those times I wonder if I will ever truly reach the status of "good" trader.

 

But such moments are fleeting - I know I am on my true path, my passion and my destiny. My greatest fear is that I may one day forget my roots, and look with some shallow disdain, on fellows who will be then, where I used to be.

 

God save me from ever suffering that arrogance, and from having the temerity to believe I am somehow better than others for having "arrived."

 

Most of us are born into a world where risk, uncertainty, worry, and fear are associated with one another -- a very different world than Jan Arps. The brain organizes the developing self around the avoidance of threat and trading exposes this association of risk, uncertainty, worry, and fear (now embedded in the neuro-circuitry of perception).

 

Not sure if it really is: "a very different world than Jan Arps" at all. You say so, but I believe at whatever level we exist, we will STILL need to deal with the same kinds of fears and challenges. We just move into more complex challenges, in my view. Having a fear, or facing a challenge need not be pathological. I think what we really need to work on is the courage to face these things and be "over-comers."

 

Once it is exposed, what are you going to do about it? I know people who push through it like a bull and, end the end, re-build what historical adaptation dealt to them. I know people keep running into the same brick walls over and over again. At some moment, a person has to choose how they will take the bull by the horns and change their perceptual map that they produce effective living (and trading).

 

I am not so sure about: "At some moment, a person has to choose how they will take the bull by the horns and change their perceptual map ..." Maybe it is possible to overcome the challenges without taking those kinds of decisions. Maybe enlightenment is an inherent result, spawned by the process of facing challenges. I think that once one decides to truly COMMIT to solving a problem, then the answers will come. That is a different process, in my view, from one where one solves the problems by association with non-related analogies.

 

You really can not substitute the thrill of participating in mountain climbing with watching it on DVD. As much as the photographer makes you feel a part of the experience, it can never match the achievement of the climber who actually and truly succeeds in the climb. To "make the climb" by proxy (3-D or Blue Ray DVD) is to somehow cheat oneself of the real thrill of crashing, or crashing through. To me, trading is the same - the value is in the journey - success is secondary ... important ... but secondary.

 

Staying blind to possibility shuts us off from developing our God-given gifts. Changing perception at the level of flesh is challenging. Ask any dieter or trader. You choose your tools and your path. It's your journey.

 

Agree - and I choose to use my God-given gifts to benefit others while achieving the breakthroughs. I am well aware of the possibilities of achieving a breakthrough by OTHER means than staying the course. I have eyes wide open, and face all challenges.

 

I have been born with certain inherent abilities to exercise courage. And I have been born with human intelligence - not an ounce more ... or an ounce less - just an amount of intelligence that can not be measured nor compared to others, because we are unique.

 

I am fortunate that I have found good teachers and was willing to listen to them. And, yes, it did cost me money. But not seeking out teachers cost me time and money. The choice is always yours.

 

Rande Howell

 

What did the "good teachers" teach you that cost you money? Are you talking about trading, academie, psychology, language, sport?

 

And in what way did "not seeking out teachers cost (you) time and money" - this is what you could build your case on. This is worth knowing, and this would be really helpful to readers.

 

Yes - I agree: "The choice is always yours/(mine)." And I don't think I have been influenced in any way to take anything BUT my own choices in these matters. It is NOT belligerence nor stubbornness - it is perception and decision based on assessment, opportunity, goals and outcomes.

 

If you could walk in my shoes, I think you would agree.

 

I aim for the thrill of achieving the goal the adventurous way, AND reaping the rewards of owning the goal.

 

That's a grand disposition with which to endow one's life.

[MightyMouse 12]

This is an interesting question. Jan's father was also a mechanical engineer as Jan is and was involved with the oil industry as an engineer predicting futures. It was way above my head. So yes, his father knew what he was doing. Jan actually charted by hand for his father's investments and then they would discuss. Both are also brillant men. Jan's curiosity was encouraged and was taught risk management from his father. Now Jan's son, Hawk, is following this line.

 

And, by the way, they are great people. Our conversation was about how develop traders emotionally and psychologically to use the technology better. Of course, Jan can not understand how people become emotionally incapacitated while trading.

 

Rande Howell

 

Rande,

 

The Jan Arps story you are telling is completely fabricated by either you or him. If he actually told you this, then go back and rethink it.

 

MM

[Rande Howell 10]

Rande,

 

The Jan Arps story you are telling is completely fabricated by either you or him. If he actually told you this, then go back and rethink it.

 

MM

 

Actually, my wife and I had lunch with Jan and his son Craig last week in Greensburo, NC at Stamey's BBQ -- where I discovered he had a fondness for vanilla milkshakes. (I'm based in Charlotte, NC -- near Greenburo). Stamey's is one of the legendary Lexington style BBQ resturants that have given NC its BBQ name. Jan lives in Greensburo and his son visits regularly as they work together in the family business there. I met Craig (goes by Hawk) at the NY Traders Expo where we talked extensively about the need for developing the psychology of the trader so that they could better use the Arps TA tools and indicators. This is something they have an interest in. That lead to meeting in Greensburo.

 

The story he told me about how he learned from his father is noted in the Introduction to his book Idiot's Guide to TA. It is under the section called Introduction xxiii and is the second paragraph under Acknowledgments. If it is fabricated, you need to contact Alpha Books (a division of Penguin Publishers) to report this. I figure they have checked their facts pretty well. That's about as far as I need to re-think this.

 

Rande Howell

[MightyMouse 12]

Actually, my wife and I had lunch with Jan and his son Craig last week in Greensburo, NC at Stamey's BBQ -- where I discovered he had a fondness for vanilla milkshakes. (I'm based in Charlotte, NC -- near Greenburo). Stamey's is one of the legendary Lexington style BBQ resturants that have given NC its BBQ name. Jan lives in Greensburo and his son visits regularly as they work together in the family business there. I met Craig (goes by Hawk) at the NY Traders Expo where we talked extensively about the need for developing the psychology of the trader so that they could better use the Arps TA tools and indicators. This is something they have an interest in. That lead to meeting in Greensburo.

 

The story he told me about how he learned from his father is noted in the Introduction to his book Idiot's Guide to TA. It is under the section called Introduction xxiii and is the second paragraph under Acknowledgments. If it is fabricated, you need to contact Alpha Books (a division of Penguin Publishers) to report this. I figure they have checked their facts pretty well. That's about as far as I need to re-think this.

 

Rande Howell

 

Rande,

 

Clearly, his intent is to sell books. We all know that we don't want to buy a book about trading or indicators from a common guy, so he has to make himself uncommon. We want to be lied too don't we? You should know the answer to this. But, you pass it along as if it is true without knowing whether it is or not.

 

MM

[Rande Howell 10]

Rande,

 

Clearly, his intent is to sell books. We all know that we don't want to buy a book about trading or indicators from a common guy, so he has to make himself uncommon. We want to be lied too don't we? You should know the answer to this. But, you pass it along as if it is true without knowing whether it is or not.

 

MM

 

I have no doubt that making a profit is part of his intention. But I doubt seriously that their is actually much profit in a book like this. Unless you have a mass seller, authors make little money. The publisher does. And trading is a vertical market. So money is not the primary aim.

 

What I got, was that this whole field fasinates him and he enjoys helping other gain competence in this area. I wish their were more capitalists like him.

 

Any time you use a popular platform, there is a good chance you are using his indicators that are already embedded into it. So you've paid for them. By taking and holding a conspiracy mindset, you also blind yourself to what this man offers.

 

Rande Howell

[MightyMouse 12]

I have no doubt that making a profit is part of his intention. But I doubt seriously that their is actually much profit in a book like this. Unless you have a mass seller, authors make little money. The publisher does. And trading is a vertical market. So money is not the primary aim.

 

What I got, was that this whole field fasinates him and he enjoys helping other gain competence in this area. I wish their were more capitalists like him.

 

Any time you use a popular platform, there is a good chance you are using his indicators that are already embedded into it. So you've paid for them. By taking and holding a conspiracy mindset, you also blind yourself to what this man offers.

 

Rande Howell

 

I use price, volume, and time. I don't think he is old enough to have invented those indicators.

 

It's not a conspiracy. He is telling stories that no one can ever substantiate. It's sort of like the virgin teen that goes away to Canada for the summer and comes back with stories of sexual exploits to tell his friends.

 

But I will tell you what, I am now intrigued to seek out the indicators of the one Jan Arps who was breed to trade because he drew charts for his father as a child and therefore does not understand the link between fear and uncertainty.

 

I suppose that story makes his indicators work better. But, it seems like someone is trying to slip in a little stiff vibrational essence therapy after which you will want to regress to a past life.

[Rande Howell 10]

I use price, volume, and time. I don't think he is old enough to have invented those indicators.

 

It's not a conspiracy. He is telling stories that no one can ever substantiate. It's sort of like the virgin teen that goes away to Canada for the summer and comes back with stories of sexual exploits to tell his friends.

 

But I will tell you what, I am now intrigued to seek out the indicators of the one Jan Arps who was breed to trade because he drew charts for his father as a child and therefore does not understand the link between fear and uncertainty.

 

I suppose that story makes his indicators work better. But, it seems like someone is trying to slip in a little stiff vibrational essence therapy after which you will want to regress to a past life.

 

Here is Trader's Toolbox website: URL Deleted by Moderator . Check out his background and his stories.

 

Rande Howell

Edited March 24, 2011 by Mysticforex

[Ingot54 13]

Here is Trader's Toolbox website: Check out his background and his stories.

 

Rande Howell

 

... and his prices!!!

Edited March 24, 2011 by Mysticforex

[johnw 10]

I wasn't going to continue with this thread, because all that needed to be said had been said.

But now it is turning into an objective view of why people cannot trade.

 

People have allowed their minds to stray away from the essence of trading .... in fact it wouldn't surprise me to read a recipe for NC BBQ ribs in tomorrows postings.

 

On another thread a Poster said that he would not try to trade if he had plenty of money and could afford not to do so.

Someone else states that they want to learn to trade but not to make a great wade of money from it.

Try this one ..."what is a good online game to play while I am waiting for my setup"

Take this one for a test drive ..."I have 16 setups, ranging in probability"

 

I ask you .... where on earth has all the focus gone.

All I see is half arsed convoluted trials that lead to nowhere.

 

FOCUS dear readers FOCUS ... trading is only about FOCUS

 

The ART of trading provides us with very few hard facts and challenges us to draw a road map that includes a couple of bus stops ... one to enter the bus and another to exit the bus.

 

While the hard facts may appear few in number, they are sufficient to complete the task.

I can tell you this until hell freezes over and you will all eventually agree.

 

And then what happens ....

 

Well for a start, you immediately forget our conversation and your fertile minds take over and go hunting for more information....yum yum more info must be good for me.

 

Never mind that there is no more hard information.

Your glorious little minds begin to create 1st, 2nd 3rd derivations of HLOC, Vol, OI, Time.....your uncontrollable minds regress back to bed wetting, eating stale bread, learning to swim ... you name it and your fertile little minds will conjure it out of thin air.

 

That is what happens....

 

In no time at all you have created a complete new world for yourselves, centred around a brand new subject that you know nothing about ... and are not likely to within your newly created bubble.

 

Why on earth do you do this.

 

Oopps, here comes another bubble in the making on why you do what you do when you are threatening yourself with learn to trade.

 

Back to business ..... why is it just not possible for most people to learn to take the scant but sufficient information and turn it into a successful trading road map.

 

Perhaps it is the pain of the sudden brutality of being "right or wrong" with a trade.

This is a far cry from western world living.

 

Or perhaps you are too childish to stand by your own decisions.

 

Or perhaps it is none of the above and you DECIDE to push ahead, always focusing ONLY on the few hard facts you know that you can rely upon, until the big variable, that is YOU we are talking about, drops into place.

[TheNegotiator 13]

johnw, you are very right but also very wrong. Focus and preparation are the most important things, but there are also psychological facets to trading. It's all very well and good when you are trading well, but when things start to go wrong, that's when there are potential issues which can adversely affect your trading results. Actually, many traders first run into emotional problems when they first experience a run of good profits.

 

I believe dismissing other aspects to trading is simply naive. If people were always able to perform to 100% of their abilities all the time, why doesn't a soccer player score a goal every free kick? Or an American football player score with every field goal attempt? Why do we talk about 'form' of the very same players? Seriously.

 

However, people do tend to go way over the top in trying to understand the nature of trading. This is human nature. Take a task, dissect it/learn it, reproduce results consistently. That is what we look for. Not everyone has the benefit of experience or innate ability to recognise that trading is just not like everyday life.

 

An edge is the best we hope for and when applied in context to current market activity, there is a variable probability range of the trade being successful. This is where successful traders then employ money management skills. Not voodoo. Just sensible methods to mitigate strategy risk over a large number of trades.

 

If you want to be a profitable trader, learn to read the market. Take a number of setups which you think can be profitable more times than not(or at least have a massive risk:reward ratio) then apply sound money management. If you do this and do it well, the psychological difficulties you encounter should be lessened and if you still have problems with them, either read a book like Trading in the Zone or give up.

[johnw 10]

johnw, you are very right but also very wrong. Focus and preparation are the most important things, but there are also psychological facets to trading. It's all very well and good when you are trading well, but when things start to go wrong, .

 

Take trading ES for example ....

 

What can possibly "start to go wrong"

[MightyMouse 12]

I wasn't going to continue with this thread, because all that needed to be said had been said.

But now it is turning into an objective view of why people cannot trade.

 

People have allowed their minds to stray away from the essence of trading .... in fact it wouldn't surprise me to read a recipe for NC BBQ ribs in tomorrows postings.

 

On another thread a Poster said that he would not try to trade if he had plenty of money and could afford not to do so.

Someone else states that they want to learn to trade but not to make a great wade of money from it.

Try this one ..."what is a good online game to play while I am waiting for my setup"

Take this one for a test drive ..."I have 16 setups, ranging in probability"

 

I ask you .... where on earth has all the focus gone.

All I see is half arsed convoluted trials that lead to nowhere.

 

FOCUS dear readers FOCUS ... trading is only about FOCUS

 

The ART of trading provides us with very few hard facts and challenges us to draw a road map that includes a couple of bus stops ... one to enter the bus and another to exit the bus.

 

While the hard facts may appear few in number, they are sufficient to complete the task.

I can tell you this until hell freezes over and you will all eventually agree.

 

And then what happens ....

 

Well for a start, you immediately forget our conversation and your fertile minds take over and go hunting for more information....yum yum more info must be good for me.

 

Never mind that there is no more hard information.

Your glorious little minds begin to create 1st, 2nd 3rd derivations of HLOC, Vol, OI, Time.....your uncontrollable minds regress back to bed wetting, eating stale bread, learning to swim ... you name it and your fertile little minds will conjure it out of thin air.

 

That is what happens....

 

In no time at all you have created a complete new world for yourselves, centred around a brand new subject that you know nothing about ... and are not likely to within your newly created bubble.

 

Why on earth do you do this.

 

Oopps, here comes another bubble in the making on why you do what you do when you are threatening yourself with learn to trade.

 

Back to business ..... why is it just not possible for most people to learn to take the scant but sufficient information and turn it into a successful trading road map.

 

Perhaps it is the pain of the sudden brutality of being "right or wrong" with a trade.

This is a far cry from western world living.

 

Or perhaps you are too childish to stand by your own decisions.

 

Or perhaps it is none of the above and you DECIDE to push ahead, always focusing ONLY on the few hard facts you know that you can rely upon, until the big variable, that is YOU we are talking about, drops into place.

 

Posting a NC BBQ recipe would be an insult to anyone not living in NC.

[TheNegotiator 13]

Take trading ES for example ....

 

What can possibly "start to go wrong"

 

You misread the market, get over excited or over cautious. You could trade when you are a little tired or maybe sick. Perhaps the biggest thing is if you go through a change in your personal circumstances. You have a new baby or even get a divorce. You could just get really unlucky a number of times and start to question your reasoning. You might then get a little loose and to borrow a poker term, 'go on tilt' -which I can assure you markets like ES can do no matter how much work you do.

 

Experienced and wise traders can deal with these things and prevent them from affecting their trading overall. They isolate the issues. However, to another trader, this could be the start of a downward spiral into a trading rut or even a blown up account.

[johnw 10]

You misread the market, get over excited or over cautious. You could trade when you are a little tired or maybe sick. Perhaps the biggest thing is if you go through a change in your personal circumstances. You have a new baby or even get a divorce. You could just get really unlucky a number of times and start to question your reasoning. You might then get a little loose and to borrow a poker term, 'go on tilt' -which I can assure you markets like ES can do no matter how much work you do.

 

Experienced and wise traders can deal with these things and prevent them from affecting their trading overall. They isolate the issues. However, to another trader, this could be the start of a downward spiral into a trading rut or even a blown up account.

 

 

Very wisely put.

 

Am I to gather that you believe a Trader should know themselves sufficiently to know when they can apply FOCUS to trading ES and when they cannot.

 

Oopps, I mentioned FOCUS again ... unforgivable of me.