MEDITATION, MOTIVATION and TRADING

[TradingPro 10]

MEDITATION, MOTIVATION and TRADING

 

I strongly stand by the necessity for meditation for EVERYBODY wanting to take on the career of trading and to be successful at it.

Without this we are locked-in to an inflexible world-view that may not be a helpful one for trading.

 

It would be very interesting to hear from those practicing meditators that have practically applied their practice to the world of trading.

 

I’ll start off the discussion by mentioning that I find the whole field of motivation ESSENTIAL, both for trading and meditation.

By grace or karma this conviction was realised through a deep investigation as to precisely why I was moving out from a lucrative professional career in Japan and into the trading business many years back and I can openly admit that this research has tremendously promoted the “bottom-line” of my trading businesses more than any other single area of technical or fundamental research.

 

Upon first reflection most may well find that their motivation is “money” and so I would implore that you look past this if this is where you find yourself focussing. I suggest this, also with conviction, because in my “deeper” investigative conversations with the more successful traders that I have had the pleasure to meet there is indeed a common thread here. Sure it can easily be said that those with money can indeed then look past the money and we appear to have a catch 22 here, however it is my point here that correct motivation is an essential precedent to “money” as opposed to the other way around.

 

Explore it, investigate it, play with it and talk about it here, it would be very good to hear and share what others feel, have done and are continuing to do in this area both on a practical and maybe even the metaphysical level.

 

I fortunately have the motivation to help others and this helps me and those I am fortunate to share with. What helps you?

 

Grant

[MightyMouse 12]

MEDITATION, MOTIVATION and TRADING

 

I strongly stand by the necessity for meditation for EVERYBODY wanting to take on the career of trading and to be successful at it.

Without this we are locked-in to an inflexible world-view that may not be a helpful one for trading.

 

It would be very interesting to hear from those practicing meditators that have practically applied their practice to the world of trading.

 

I’ll start off the discussion by mentioning that I find the whole field of motivation ESSENTIAL, both for trading and meditation.

By grace or karma this conviction was realised through a deep investigation as to precisely why I was moving out from a lucrative professional career in Japan and into the trading business many years back and I can openly admit that this research has tremendously promoted the “bottom-line” of my trading businesses more than any other single area of technical or fundamental research.

 

Upon first reflection most may well find that their motivation is “money” and so I would implore that you look past this if this is where you find yourself focussing. I suggest this, also with conviction, because in my “deeper” investigative conversations with the more successful traders that I have had the pleasure to meet there is indeed a common thread here. Sure it can easily be said that those with money can indeed then look past the money and we appear to have a catch 22 here, however it is my point here that correct motivation is an essential precedent to “money” as opposed to the other way around.

 

Explore it, investigate it, play with it and talk about it here, it would be very good to hear and share what others feel, have done and are continuing to do in this area both on a practical and maybe even the metaphysical level.

 

I fortunately have the motivation to help others and this helps me and those I am fortunate to share with. What helps you?

 

Grant

 

I started meditating every day over a year ago and found it very, very helpful in getting me in the right mindset, mentally, to interpret the market. I started with 5 minutes, then added time and added time.

 

I found that after a while i did not need to meditate every single day, since i began to get right in that zone whenever i sat in front of the screens. I completely recommend that everyone do it who trades with discretion.

[TheNegotiator 13]

I find meditation is very helpful. Anyone who has doubts should google - meditation and hippocampus.

I'm not pretending to be an expert on this by any means, but there is intriguing research about the effects of meditation on the brain and in particular the hippocampus- the area responsible for regulating emotion.

 

Take a look.

 

TheNegotiator.

[Ingot54 13]

 

I strongly stand by the necessity for meditation for EVERYBODY wanting to take on the career of trading and to be successful at it.

 

It would be very interesting to hear from those practicing meditators that have practically applied their practice to the world of trading.

 

Grant, thank you raising this topic. While I did vote that I think meditation/motivation is very important, I would like to know what form of it you advocate. The field varies from the deeply religious, to New Age, to NLP-type preparation and so on.

 

By grace or karma this conviction was realised through a deep investigation ... that this research has tremendously promoted the “bottom-line” of my trading businesses more than any other single area of technical or fundamental research.

 

Upon first reflection most may well find that their motivation is “money” and so I would implore that you look past this if this is where you find yourself focussing.

 

Personally I find it difficult to separate the concept of "trading" from "making money." You mentioned in your opening statement the words "to be successful at it," and these words can only allude to "success" being "money" as opposed to trading for any other reason.

 

I switched to trading for pips at one time, to try not to look at the dollars as the trade moved, but subconsciously I was still doing the calcs and knew exactly what my bottom line was. If not through the money made, how then would you define "success?"

 

I suggest this, also with conviction, because in my “deeper” investigative conversations with the more successful traders that I have had the pleasure to meet there is indeed a common thread here ... it is my point here that correct motivation is an essential precedent to “money” as opposed to the other way around.

 

I am struggling with this. The best I can do is to think you are pointing to trading for reasons of the higher-self, as opposed to money. Could you mean that each time the trader steps up to the keyboard and screen, he needs to be mentally prepared to just follow his plan, his rules and his commitment with discipline and poise? At this point, I can not see myself doing the Buddhist thing, or the Christian thing, meditating as such prior to trading sessions. The meditation would need to be non-religious, would it not?

 

But motivation material ... that is entirely spot on with me.

 

I strongly believe in motivation - indeed I have even posted (on TL threads) a couple of Youtube links to recorded clips of the late, great Jim Rohn, and I derive great motivation and inspiration from those, to approach my trading with greater alacrity and commitment.

 

I would be pleased if you too, at a later time in this thread perhaps, are able to share something of your personal technique, and even some of the meditational or motivational (they are different) material that you use.

 

Thank you for the thread - an outstanding topic and one that should be essential for traders completing "Trading for Success 101." While I am unable to share more in this area, I remain open to learn and develop my mental capacity to function at a higher level with my trading.

 

EDIT: Can I add to an already-long post ... and just say that I can envisage using trading for higher purposes - eg family support, as opposed to the base need to possess money as such. That view, I am comfortable with.

[Rande Howell 10]

I teach mindfulness (another way of saying meditation) as part of my peak performance training. Essential. The form is a derivitive of Zen meditation, where the practioner learns to be witness to the going and coming of thought without becoming attached to them. The developing Observer then makes a startling discovery -- You and your thoughts are not the same. This is of enormous value to the trader. I do use guided meditations as a catalyst to jump start the process. I myself have been practicing meditation for about 35 years.

Rande Howell

[aversano 10]

I do not fully understand how meditation can help you become a better trader? I can relate to it helping a person reach mental goals but with respect to trading?

Speculate on a move, understand why the move is happening, decide if you want to stay in and know when to exit.

After completing the above, move to the next trade.

[kellih 10]

Very interesting topic, as I have been exploring meditation most recently. To the question of motivation of trading beyond that of money, I would suggest that trading is a way for one to stay focused in the present -- because as Eckhart Tolle has stated, "the present is all that there ever is."

 

Success in trading (and in life) demands that we remain in the now (the present moment). Thinking about past or future only creates fear, anxiety and worry -- things that we all know can destroy our trading career.

 

There is an EXCELLENT book recommended by veteran trader, Jeff Quinto entitled "Transcending Fear: The Doorway to Freedom" by Brian Germain.

This book has done wonders in my evolution as a trader! Germain, a professional World Champion skydiver, talks about overcoming fear as it relates to skydiving, but the techniques can be easily applied to just about any situation. He discusses to great length the importance of meditation, as well as being able to relax, focus and flow in the present, as a way to help maintain composure in an emotionally charged situation.

 

Eckhart Tolle has also said that many may use extreme sports or activities as a way to somewhat force the necessity to focus in the present - to be in the zone. So we could very well regard trading in the same manner - as a tool or venue that allows us to live every moment with greater awareness, to transcend our fears and break through our limitations, to transform our very being, ... and in the words of the US Army, to "be all that we can be"!

[MightyMouse 12]

I do not fully understand how meditation can help you become a better trader? I can relate to it helping a person reach mental goals but with respect to trading?

Speculate on a move, understand why the move is happening, decide if you want to stay in and know when to exit.

After completing the above, move to the next trade.

 

At the very least, meditation helps relax your mind, putting aside all "noisy thoughts" so that you can trade with as clear a mind as possible so that you can understand what is happening. Try to calculate 5x7 on a calculator with all the number keys pressed at the same time.

 

Meditation is a process and therefore takes time to reap the benefits from it. It will not directly improve your trading.

[TheNegotiator 13]

At the very least, meditation helps relax your mind, putting aside all "noisy thoughts" so that you can trade with as clear a mind as possible so that you can understand what is happening. Try to calculate 5x7 on a calculator with all the number keys pressed at the same time.

 

Meditation is a process and therefore takes time to reap the benefits from it. It will not directly improve your trading.

 

Yup. I would say that a very useful part of meditation for trading is to help the mind 'declutter' and focus on what is really important. There's more to it than that definitely, but this is a really easy benefit to see as a beginner.

 

TheNegotiator.

[aversano 10]

At the very least, meditation helps relax your mind, putting aside all "noisy thoughts" so that you can trade with as clear a mind as possible so that you can understand what is happening. Try to calculate 5x7 on a calculator with all the number keys pressed at the same time.

 

Meditation is a process and therefore takes time to reap the benefits from it. It will not directly improve your trading.

 

Based on my experience nothing can save you in trading unless you know how to.Meditation will definitely not harm (as long as its not done during RTH)

[Rande Howell 10]

Based on my experience nothing can save you in trading unless you know how to.Meditation will definitely not harm (as long as its not done during RTH)

 

From my experience meditation works on several levels with traders. First, in breath work, meditation really helps in the emotional regulation of worry and fear. Since both these emotional states require holding of the breath and shallow breathing to maintain the emotion. This calming effect allows the trader to think from a much better state of mind than worry.

 

Second, particularly Zen styles where the focus is on mindfulness, allow the trader to become aware of the going and coming of thought without fusing to the thought streams. By recognizing that you and your thoughts are not the same, a whole new way of looking at trading can emerge.

 

The third aspect is what I call applied mindfulness. Here you are not just observing thought, you are also volutionally choosing to focus attention on empowered parts of the self (discipline, patience, impartiality, and courage) rather than letting the attention drift to where ever it wants to go.

 

Rande Howell

[MadMarketScientist 11]

Here's my problem -- I "believe" wholeheartedly in the benefit. Do not need any convincing. What I can't seem to figure out is how to step back and actually have the time to do it without being wracked with stress and guilt over what I'm not doing on an already endless to-do list from 3 different companies I have to run/help run. I find the moment I step back and try to relax and do this the stress of the "undone" drives me crazy. Consider I'm the one usually with the sandwich at lunch hunched over the keyboard going through email since I'm stressed how many people are waiting for a reply from me!

 

I figure out that and then maybe I can meditate!

 

MMS

[TheNegotiator 13]

Sounds like you need meditation the most Mad! I suggest something along the lines of 20mins when you get home if you can fit it in somewhere and make it routine. Any meditation is beneficial imo and certainly may help you rest better and recharge to cope with the stresses your work places on you. Remember, it's important to look after yourself and not neglect this as it means when you are working, you are functioning closer to 100%.

 

TheNegotiator.

[Rande Howell 10]

Here's my problem -- I "believe" wholeheartedly in the benefit. Do not need any convincing. What I can't seem to figure out is how to step back and actually have the time to do it without being wracked with stress and guilt over what I'm not doing on an already endless to-do list from 3 different companies I have to run/help run. I find the moment I step back and try to relax and do this the stress of the "undone" drives me crazy. Consider I'm the one usually with the sandwich at lunch hunched over the keyboard going through email since I'm stressed how many people are waiting for a reply from me!

 

I figure out that and then maybe I can meditate!

 

MMS

 

Wow!! A true type A. I have found that most type A's and most Americans find it difficult to establish a meditation practice for the exact same reasons you describe so well. Habitual prolonged stress is a problem on many levels. From health to cognitive performance to relationships. I figure you're onto that.

 

A possible solution. If you look at the biology of meditation, you discover that it is actually brain activity at a particular frequency that produces the meditative state. There are various ways to arrive at these "trance states" -- these absorptive states of mind. I have found that most people respond much better to guided meditations than to a sustained meditative practice. Getting to that absorptive state of mind happens all the time. When you get in your car and drive. Notice that you lose sense of time. That is evidence of an absorptive state of mind called "driving meditation or trance". Getting in the car and attuning to driving is what inducts you into this state. Many people discover that their best ideas happen here. The same with showers.

 

I ask people to consider guided meditations as a kind of meditation on steriods. I use them to teach people how to calm down, to step back, observe thought, and to direct thought. Real skill building kinds of things. Over time my hope is that people will develop the regular skill of meditation. Guided meditation is a great introduction and require less than 30 minutes.

 

Once you get the biological system calmed down, you still have to deal with your understanding of work (meaning as a way to generate worth) that is fused with highly aroused emotional states you spoke of. Most folks equate work with busyness (getting things done). Another way of percieving work is the coordination of action. This opens up a very different possibility in running businesses.

 

Thanks for your comments. They were really interesting to me.

 

Rande Howell

[SIUYA 11]

just convince yourself that the world will exist without you for 20mins-1 hour a day......and surprise surprise it will. the emails will still be there, the mkt will still be ticking over, the sun will still be shining

[MightyMouse 12]

Here's my problem -- I "believe" wholeheartedly in the benefit. Do not need any convincing. What I can't seem to figure out is how to step back and actually have the time to do it without being wracked with stress and guilt over what I'm not doing on an already endless to-do list from 3 different companies I have to run/help run. I find the moment I step back and try to relax and do this the stress of the "undone" drives me crazy. Consider I'm the one usually with the sandwich at lunch hunched over the keyboard going through email since I'm stressed how many people are waiting for a reply from me!

 

I figure out that and then maybe I can meditate!

 

MMS

 

MMS,

 

I started with 5 minutes. It takes a while to build up to longer periods of time. 20 minutes, early on seemed like an eternity, but you begin to want to do it for longer and longer. I go an hour and use a timer to stop myself. I too have obligations that I need to fulfill.

 

I now tend to do it very early in the morning or as needed, but never meditate more than 2-3 times a week. You will actually look forward to it.

 

The feeling you get from it is very similar to the way you feel when you come back relaxed from a vacation. A real vacation and not one spent chasing around little kids and having forced conversations with your aging spouse.

 

 

MM

[Rande Howell 10]

I do not fully understand how meditation can help you become a better trader? I can relate to it helping a person reach mental goals but with respect to trading?

 

Mindfulness is a tool that, with breathing and relaxation, allows you to slow the thinking process down in your brain. As you slow the thought streams down, they no longer pass you without your awareness or as a blur. In mindfulness you develop an observer of the thoughts and recognize that you and your thoughts are not the same. There is a part of you watching the thoughts arise, have a life, and disappear.

 

In trading, for example, it is really helpful to separate your sense of identity from fear based thinking. You don't have to fuse with the fear and get carried away by it. Then, taking the next step, mindfulness can be used to direct attention to other parts of the mind where you might have parked your discipline, patience, impartiality, and courage. In applied mindfulness, your attention is volitionally focused on these elements. Impartiality is a key element to successful trading and it is available to all who can calm mind and direct attention. Applied mindfulness.

 

You develop influence over the kinds of thinking and emotions that occur in your state of mind. It is no longer free floating and accidential what state of mind you are in. To make mindfulness practical, you must get a handle on the physical arousal of emotions first. That where breathing and relaxation training become very useful.

 

Rande Howell

[n00btrader 10]

Anyone have any suggestions on where one can learn mindfulness training at a reasonable cost?

[TheNegotiator 13]

Anyone have any suggestions on where one can learn mindfulness training at a reasonable cost?

 

If you take a look on amazon, there are some decent books on mindfulness. I would suggest reading at least a couple before even considering paying someone a chunk of money. That way, firstly you will know whether it is a fit with you and whether you are committed. Secondly you will be in a better position to benefit from what you are being told. IMO.

[MightyMouse 12]

Anyone have any suggestions on where one can learn mindfulness training at a reasonable cost?

 

nOOb,

 

gOOgle it. The steps to learn it are simple and its free.

 

MM

[TradeRunner 10]

Anyone have any suggestions on where one can learn mindfulness training at a reasonable cost?

 

I recommend this one

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0861713214

 

but like MM says the steps are simple and can be found on the web for free.

[Rande Howell 10]

A good place to start is with Herbert Benson's work. He's the guy that created the "Relaxation Response". He extraptulated the technology behind Yogi's ability to manage body and mind from the religion. To start, I encourage guided meditations until you get the hang of it. I also like Zen approaches where you become witness to thought. Cabot-Zinn is another well known researcher who works with mindfulness as a form of meditation.

Rande Howell

[StevenSJC 10]

What might be interesting as well are just some simple tips on anxiety/stress relief that someone could deploy immediately. Meditation is great but like any art probably takes a bit to do right and master. There must be some things/excercise/breathing one can do in the heat of the trading battle to remain calm....

[n00btrader 10]

For anyone else interested here is the free info I found that seems to be good for starting out with meditation:

 

http://www.suite101.com/content/the-relaxation-response-a103132

 

http://relentlesslyhappy.wordpress.com/2010/08/30/the-mindfulness-training-by-troy-ygnacio-soriano/

 

http://www.best-personal-growth-resources.com/mindfulness-exercises.html

[n00btrader 10]

What might be interesting as well are just some simple tips on anxiety/stress relief that someone could deploy immediately. Meditation is great but like any art probably takes a bit to do right and master. There must be some things/excercise/breathing one can do in the heat of the trading battle to remain calm....

 

Reading an amazon review of Herbert Benson's The Relaxation Response book, a reader commented that the original old edition had a great 15 second technique that could be used in the moment, that is no longer in the newer editions. Perhaps Rande or someone here has the book/knows it and can share it.