PowerCharting Joins TTM

[RangeExpansion 10]

Hello Traders

 

It's very sad news to hear any trader has blown up, however, the way in which Mr. Hoffman traded mathematically guaranteed this outcome. I was in his room at the early stages of it's formation and very quickly determined Mr. Hoffman's approach to trading was a ticking time bomb that was set to decimate not only his account, but also the accounts of the victims which fell prey to his marketing magic. Everyone says what a nice guy he was but I never got that vibe. I felt as if he was simply a good salesman and actor, playing the "nice guy who's just here to help role". The days in his room never consisted of anything more than him talking on and on about the same tired topic he talked on and on about the previous day. Overall it was a good experience that taught me what not to do as a trader. I hope more details emerge on the event.

 

Good trading

-Gabriel

[jackb 10]

Well, so much for those conspiracy theory folks who theorized he trades on a sim trader.

 

I cannot imagine how that would feel losing that much money live in front of all those folks who were in his room.....speaking for myself, it's bad enough to lose a few bucks when no one else even knows or cares. If it were me who was in that trade losing $300k, not only would there be a huge mess in my pants, it'd be all over the walls, the floor - everywhere lol.

 

For whoever might be interested, there's a 14 day trial for $5.00 - - according to the email, looks like Rob will be trading for two of those days at least - let me know if y'all want the link.

 

I was one of Rob's students since about a month after he first started posting on youtube up until about a year ago when I left his room - (so, I've known him about 3 years I guess) and I am only posting this to set the record straight on a few things........

 

1) Whatever anyone else thinks about him, he really is a heck of a great guy, a total riot to just shoot the breeze with. I believe that he is honest and cares enough about his students and what he teaches to often go "above and beyond" what one would expect from him.

2) He can rip apart a chart like no body I've ever seen, his T/A abilities are absolutely phenomenal. I've been 11 years in this game, none of the 20 or so "guru's" I've had the misfortune to get acquainted with can touch his T/A, or his teaching abilities - not by a long shot.

3) The "high probability" setups that he teaches work over 90% of the time - IMO.

4) His "Scaling in" or "martingale" strategy will kill most traders a lot sooner than 18 months - it killed me twice in only a few months. I'm pretty sure I would have only lost more if my account was larger.

5) When I was in his LTR, (Live Trading Room) He CONSISTENTLY warned his room about this "scaling in" strategy - he was absolutely well aware of it's risk and was never shy about warning others.

6) In the approx 2.5 years I was in his room, I recall he took maybe 15 - 20 trades where he was immediately on the wrong side - scaled in then exited with a few ticks profit on the slight pullback.

 

 

I could go on and on, but finally, regardless of the "shady" unsubstantiated and unfounded rumors perpetrated by the unknowing, I still maintain that the market education he offers is far and away superior to anything else out there. No one else even comes remotely close. Sure, his subscription fee is high, though much cheaper than others, but he devotes a lot of time into it too - it is, after all, only worth what people are willing to pay - no?

 

Happy trades!

 

I don't find your comments to be helpful at all to those who might be seeking some true insight. To opine that his "'high probability' setups...work over 90% of the time" completely misses the most important point. In fact, if you compile his trading stats, it will likely show that his win rate was ABOVE 99%. Does that mean he's a successful trader? A lot of people would likely answer "Hell, yeah". Of course, that would be just an emotional reply as you haven't yet been provided enough information to render an informed response. Once you find out that the average loser $ size of the LESS THAN 1% of trades is so large that it wipes out most (if not all) the profits produced by the winning trades, now you're ready to put the entirety of the system into context. Martingales blow up when they blow up...but they blow up. There's no brownie points for supposedly riding it longer than other martingalers could have done. They all end up in the same place...producing a profit factor below 1...that is, long-term, it's a losing system.

 

This is the system that Hoffman has been relying on. It's improper and ill-informed to just isolate the good times of a invalid/poor system and claim those good times were more representative of his true skill set. His abilities should be evaluated on the whole. Until he fully does away with such a screwed up money management approach, I would argue it's impossible to know if he really does have any edge-worthy skills.

 

But we do know he has a major shortcoming...his aversion to being stopped out. His attempt to get around this hang up (his "scaling calculator" aka martingale) was nothing but a ticking time bomb. When a trader shows that much antipathy toward such a monumentally important aspect of trading, it wasn't hard to figure out that ugly times would be forthcoming.

 

And this guy had/has the full support and confidence of Carter. Major black-eye for Carter, imo. This from a guy who had written about such absurdities...and yet he is now part of one. Does anyone know if Carter makes money trading? No, I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't.

[optiontimer 10]

And when he does loose it will be a wipe out of course.... If he uses a Martingale betting strategy he will blow up spectacularly. It's not a question of if its a question of when.

 

A prescient post if ever there was one.

[jackb 10]

I guess D-Day was 7/14. The downtrend in the Russell that day was brutal.

[the_z 10]

I"m highly suspect of the 2 recent posts Written by "brand-new" members making their FIRST POST! They are likely scouts for the Hoffman team.

 

The word needs to get out that Hoffman blew up his +$300k account by over scaling positions by not following the trend, ignoring his indicators, not using stops and trading with ego to win the trade---all of these are not becoming of a trading educator. ...furthermore the possibly corrupt John Carter continuing to DUPE traders by saying Rob Continues to win.

[JackR 10]

Corey was being a bit misleading with his post - He left off the last line of Carter's eMail. It said:

 

FROM THE DESK OF JOHN CARTER:

Dear Trader,

There are streaks that have been mathematically proven to be impossible:

Baseball has Joe DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak

Football has Brett Favre's 297 consecutive game streak

Hockey has Wayne Gretzky's 51 straight games with a point

[And, now traders have Rob Hoffman's 535 straight days without a losing trade

That's right. If you haven't heard, it's over.

 

 

Carter (TTM) then goes on with some marketing stuff about looking things over and seeing what comes next. He never mentions the $300K loss, but he does say there was a losing trade. If you (Corey) are going to damn them, do so ethically.

 

TTM is a marketing machine, but Carter and Senters both trade and both uses stops. I'm sure they were both shocked at how stupidly Hoffman acted.

 

Jack

[Tams 20]

the trend is your friend, your only friend.

 

Until it Ends...........................

 

then another trend begins,

 

a new friend is formed.

[Corey 10]

I saw the same promo email before so I guess I missed the last sentence meaning. The email's message to me is just exactly the same as before.

 

Corey was being a bit misleading with his post - He left off the last line of Carter's eMail. It said:

 

FROM THE DESK OF JOHN CARTER:

Dear Trader,

There are streaks that have been mathematically proven to be impossible:

Baseball has Joe DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak

Football has Brett Favre's 297 consecutive game streak

Hockey has Wayne Gretzky's 51 straight games with a point

[And, now traders have Rob Hoffman's 535 straight days without a losing trade

That's right. If you haven't heard, it's over.

 

 

Carter (TTM) then goes on with some marketing stuff about looking things over and seeing what comes next. He never mentions the $300K loss, but he does say there was a losing trade. If you (Corey) are going to damn them, do so ethically.

 

TTM is a marketing machine, but Carter and Senters both trade and both uses stops. I'm sure they were both shocked at how stupidly Hoffman acted.

 

Jack

[NoProblem 10]

This is typical of the ridiculous crap that people try to pull when someone simply cannot make their program work...."a great guy"......"his T/A abilities are phenomenal"...."high probability setups".....yeah right!

 

Look the goal is to help traders transistion from losing to winning...not from losing to blowing out their accounts!....and how does someone with a big a account show people with only a few thousand dollars how to win.......I can assure folks that it is NOT by scaling in on a martingale betting scheme that was proven wrong years ago.....and it well known in popular literature.

 

While I agree with you about it being proven wrong etc, he became a multi millionaire using that system before he ever went public, add to that fact that using that "wrong" method, he went 18 months without one losing trade. Say whatever you want, but he made an everloving killing trading using that method - true, he lost +$300k in one idiot trade using that method - but he also could have retired comfortably a very long time ago - using that method.

 

 

I do this every day folks and the way I do it is to trade an account that is at the same level (on average) as my students......this way they are comfortable with my entry and my scale outs..no solicitation...the current class is closed, but I do want to suggest to people who are looking, that you ask about the method...what is the suggested minimum account size to trade in the class, what account size does the teacher trade....what is the average risk on a trade, do they use profit targets, how do they take profit, do they provide a periodic accounting of results (we do this on a weekly and quarterly basis)...and does the teacher provide ANY education as to how the student can run a sustainable trading business? I think you will find that it is rare to see someone doing more than providing signals on a green light buy/red light sell basis...and ultimately that teaches the student very little.....just my opinion.

 

All the great points you mentioned above and more occur in his LTR. The folks who lose out most are those who subscribe thinking "the guru will make them money by trading the same trades as the "guru" - which is absolutely impossible, if not highly improbable to expect IMO based on my experience with "trading rooms".

 

As far as producing periodic accounting of results goes, that is pure stupidity *IF* the goal is to teach. What I mean is that all advertizing periodic accounting of results will encourage is expectations that are too high for most of the traders in the room - any room. It most likely would encourage wannabees into trades they should not take, but take them anyway in feeble attempts to make "X" dollars or percentage for the same period.

 

I gotta laugh to myself every time I hear about "traders" who think that "unless I see his account statement, he is a crook". That bespeaks of absolute "ignorance in abundance" to judge a methodology based on account statements. Better to see what the guy offers for yourself, then judge whether or not it might work for you.

 

As I already said, most of the rumors are absolutely unsubstantiated and unfounded which are perpetrated by the unknowing. The first proof of this ignorance is the accusation by many that he trades simulator, That one ridiculous accusation is now, thankfully, proven false.

 

Look, he puts up his entire trading screen, complete with his trading dome on the screen in real time all day, and often all night long for his students. He answers questions whenever asked during the day. He broadcasts what he is looking for and broadcasts (teaches) why, usually well ahead of him entering any position. He broadcasts actual target numbers stating where he is going to enter, and exit - most of the time his orders are plainly visible right on the screen for minutes BEFORE he enters the trade for the entire room to see, so they have time to actually determine if the trade is right for them or not. He was real big on the whole risk issue - stating a million times for folks to talk with their "registered financial adviser" if they needed specific info in regards to certain questions regarding their own risk. Whoever loses money taking his trades can only blame themselves - that's the true reality, I never blamed him when I lost - it was all my own fault each and every time..................IMO, that reality is true regardless of the trading room one participates in.

 

He has ALWAYS warned his room about taking his trades if they normally only traded small lots. He almost always gives his projected risk/reward minutes and sometimes hours before actually entering the trade - while waiting for the trade to materialize, he will dissect (teach) every thing there was to talk about ad nausem in regards to the coming potential trade - and his teaching is always focused 99% on risk, 1% on reward.

 

I must have seen him make +$500 trading only one contract hundreds of times. Seems most of his trades last about 5 minutes - and he misses probably as many trades as he makes because price never reached his entry. That's the way it goes when the only trades you take are those he teaches are "high probability" ones.

 

Which is another reason he talks alot - most of the day, he is out of the market looking for high probability setups - he talks a lot about what he is looking for based on his T/A or news or time of day or whatever, why he thinks "X" may occur and if "X" occurs, he will consider entering a trade at "XXX.XXX" with the expectation of price going to "XXX.XXX" - that teaching often leads to lengthy conversations. Whoever does not learn is not there for the right reason.

 

I understand what this post sounds like, and I know that most traders are losers no matter who they depend on to make accurate "calls", (for the record, Rob never makes any "calls") but at least Rob puts it all out there in front of every ones face everyday - how much more transparency can anyone ask for? While I like Rob and the things he teaches, I am no longer in his room because I no longer need to be in his room. For what I learned from him, I will always be thankful to him.

 

Best to you all.

[the_z 10]

So finally a losing day after 535 days.....So I am very curious to now how much he made in those 535 days was it enough to cover the loss of $300k last week? Damn, just imagine one trade (due to being LONG the market when he TF was tanking during a fed announcement or big Ben speaking) wipes out trading for the past 2+ years :doh:

 

I wonder if he was trading his own money or just and account at Infinity.

 

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

 

taken from :

http://www.tradethemarkets.com/robscheatsheet.html 

The Ultimate Trading Shortcut?

 

My Name is Rob Hoffman, I have been a professional trader since 1997. The seven (7) "cheat sheets" I have assembled will put the odds back in your favor and give you the control you need to pull profits out of the futures market.

 

This 2 hour and 30 minute video includes:

 

Best Times to Trade

How to think about trades (HINT: It's NOT what you think)

How to get the highest probability trades

How to manage emotions

How to trend trade

How to use support and resistance levels

How to scale in

 

Once you have this shortcut in your trading arsenal, you'll imediately become a more accurare, profitable, trader...

 

PLUS you'll finally have the confidence to PULL THE TRIGGER on trades you used to let pass you by.

 

Complimentary access is limited, so enter your email address in the form to the right for FREE, INSTANT ACCESS.

 

Hope it helps,

Rob Hoffman

 

:haha: He didn't even use his own Cheat Sheets!:rofl:

Edited July 17, 2011 by the_z

[Glenn64 10]

I saw the same promo email before so I guess I missed the last sentence meaning. The email's message to me is just exactly the same as before.

 

Very interesting.. as someone who has traded BEFORE in a room where Hoffman was present and which predated his own room and his association w/ TTM, let me just say one thing. To a few in the room he was known as Mr Fade...his understanding of momentum and progression were, and judging by the scenario he recently found himself in, still is lacking. Enuff said

 

:rofl::crap:

[Glenn64 10]

Interesting commentary regarding this subject matter of Hoffman and TTM

[Tams 20]

you can have any reasons,

you can have any excuses,

you can use any method,

you can use any system,

 

I have no opinion about your reason,

I have no opinion about your excuse,

I have no opinion about your method,

I have no opinion about your system,

 

I have no judgement on you,

 

because

DARWIN ALWAYS PREVAIL

[steve46 12]

Here is another comment by someone interested in defending Mr. Hoffman

 

"While I agree with you about it being proven wrong etc, he became a multi millionaire using that system before he ever went public, add to that fact that using that "wrong" method, he went 18 months without one losing trade. Say whatever you want, but he made an everloving killing trading using that method - true, he lost +$300k in one idiot trade using that method - but he also could have retired comfortably a very long time ago - using that method"

 

So after I demolish this stupid comment I am in fact done..

 

Item #1... the argument that he "became a multimillionaire using that system" (martingale betting)

 

Well the problem with that is that when you use the martingale system you never know HOW LONG YOU CAN GO BEFORE YOU GET KNOCKED OUT...IN OTHER WORDS YOU COULD BECOME A MILLIONAIRE, OR YOU COULD QUICKLY BECOME A PAUPER....a skilled, educated professional (Mr. Hoffman claims to be one) is expected to know this....

 

Item #2..."He made a killing using this method"

 

I am thinking that with 1000 members in his room paying what $200 per month, a significant amount of his "profit" came from naive, ignorant, TRUSTING, subscribers who thought they were learning a how to trade profitably, not how to gamble with someone else's money (after all, at least part of that money had to be use for trading right?) in other words the guy was using other people's money to take a hell of a lot of risk...so why worry!!!

 

So there you go "Einstein"....and by the way, why a person would defend that kind of activity in the market is beyond understanding....to my way of thinking if you have the trust of 1000 people (the number claimed for his trading room) WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO BLOW IT BY GAMBLING ON A STRATEGY THAT WAS PROVEN TO BE A LOSER YEARS AGO? IS THAT PROFESSIONAL BEHAVIOR? I DON'T THINK SO...

 

So as they say in a recent commercial....I hope you brought your umbrella champ, because it is raining cold hard facts in here.....

 

thats it

.

Edited July 17, 2011 by steve46

[NoProblem 10]

Here is another comment by someone interested in defending Mr. Hoffman

 

"While I agree with you about it being proven wrong etc, he became a multi millionaire using that system before he ever went public, add to that fact that using that "wrong" method, he went 18 months without one losing trade. Say whatever you want, but he made an everloving killing trading using that method - true, he lost +$300k in one idiot trade using that method - but he also could have retired comfortably a very long time ago - using that method"

 

So after I demolish this stupid comment I am in fact done..

 

Good. Be done and wrong.

 

Item #1... the argument that he "became a multimillionaire using that system" (martingale betting)

 

Well the problem with that is that when you use the martingale system you never know HOW LONG YOU CAN GO BEFORE YOU GET KNOCKED OUT...IN OTHER WORDS YOU COULD BECOME A MILLIONAIRE, OR YOU COULD QUICKLY BECOME A PAUPER....a skilled, educated professional (Mr. Hoffman claims to be one) is expected to know this....

 

Sure it sucks big time for him, but I assure you that him losing $300k will not put a dent in his finances.

 

 

Item #2..."He made a killing using this method"

 

I am thinking that with 1000 members in his room paying what $200 per month, a significant amount of his "profit" came from naive, ignorant, TRUSTING, subscribers who thought they were learning a how to trade profitably, not how to gamble with someone else's money (after all, at least part of that money had to be use for trading right?) in other words the guy was using other people's money to take a hell of a lot of risk...so why worry!!!

 

Such enthusiasm! Perhaps you missed the part where I told you he made his money BEFORE going public. His room is primarily an educational room that also has trading.

 

Perhaps you are in the market all day long and your students always make the exact same trades like robots - it does not work at all that way in his room. You make another unwarranted assumption when you assume his trading account is funded by his students, especially since he has probably made well over $500k live on the screen in front of everyone just in the time that I was in his room. Do you trade live with your own real money plastered on the screen for your room?

 

So there you go "Einstein"....and by the way, why a person would defend that kind of activity in the market is beyond understanding....to my way of thinking if you have the trust of 1000 people (the number claimed for his trading room) WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO BLOW IT BY GAMBLING ON A STRATEGY THAT WAS PROVEN TO BE A LOSER YEARS AGO? IS THAT PROFESSIONAL BEHAVIOR? I DON'T THINK SO...

 

So as they say in a recent commercial....I hope you brought your umbrella champ, because it is raining cold hard facts in here.....

 

thats it

.

 

Again, you make another unfounded assumption accusing him of something without reason - - perhaps you fund your account via your "students" but you should never assume he does. whether or not you operate that way is irrelevant but I can assure you, based on the money I've seen him make trading that he certainly does not need his students to fund his account.

[jackb 10]

535 straight days without a losing trade

 

Do not be impressed with this carved out statistic. It's meaningless on its own.

 

If someone wants to trade e-micros with a substantial account, they could easily eclipse 535 straight days. In doing so they would not have proven anything about their trading skills nor would they have generated enough returns to warrant deploying the strategy.

 

But, apparently, it would be enough to have the sheeples clamoring to a trading room to pay for the privilege of seeing behind the scenes of "success". Then when they find out it's nothing but smoke and mirrors, sheeples will still argue otherwise. :crap:

[steve46 12]

I propose that we start a "Shameless Shill of the Month" award

 

I nominate "No Problem" with 3 posts all of them right here on behalf of the honorable Mr. Hoffman and his business partners at TTM

 

Second nominee is Mr. Carter of TTM for his interesting interpretation of Hoffman's actions.

Edited July 18, 2011 by steve46

[NoProblem 10]

Sure, call me a shrill - I have NoProblem with that because it is not true...........it's about darn time that he finally had a losing trade tho - hey?

 

I see you neglected to answer clear questions - better to just fling names hey?

 

At any rate, here is Rob discussing a little about "the trade" - can you hear the fear and sorrow in his voice?

‪Handling a Loss as a Professional Trader‬‏ - YouTube

 

He is a class act.

[Tams 20]

Sure, call me a shrill - I have NoProblem with that because it is not true...........it's about darn time that he finally had a losing trade tho - hey?

 

I see you neglected to answer clear questions - better to just fling names hey?

 

At any rate, here is Rob discussing a little about "the trade" - can you hear the fear and sorrow in his voice?

‪Handling a Loss as a Professional Trader‬‏ - YouTube

 

He is a class act.

 

why did you change your handle?

 

 

 

you can change your name, but you can't hide your personality.

[NoProblem 10]

535 straight days without a losing trade

 

Do not be impressed with this carved out statistic. It's meaningless on its own.

 

If someone wants to trade e-micros with a substantial account, they could easily eclipse 535 straight days. In doing so they would not have proven anything about their trading skills nor would they have generated enough returns to warrant deploying the strategy.

 

Do tell.

 

By gum it most certainly sounds like you speak from personal experience - may we assume so? Regardless, why slander a record that 99.99% of traders (sheeples) would give their right arm for I wonder? According to you folks, the other .01% of traders are the real winners. Isn't that typical of "sour grapes"?

 

 

But, apparently, it would be enough to have the sheeples clamoring to a trading room to pay for the privilege of seeing behind the scenes of "success". Then when they find out it's nothing but smoke and mirrors, sheeples will still argue otherwise. :crap:

 

LMAO! What EXACTLY is smoke and mirrors? That he went 535 straight days without a losing trade? - WOW, is that ever a bunch of lies hey? Or is it that he trades on a simulator? ROFL!

 

The mentality of traders is one amazing thing - not that I can blame their thinking entirely - thanks to all the genuine scam artists in this biz.

 

Well, I can and do crack up at all the ridiculous assumptions and unsubstantiated accusations by the unknowing and self proclaimed successful traders who aim their forked tongues at Rob.

 

FWIW, when I first came across Rob on YouTube, I set out to discredit him - and I am just the guy who could do it - trust me on that - or don't - whatever..........but after spending a few days studying what he taught, it was plain to see that this dude is awesome!

 

If y'all can stomach it, watch this clip...............IMO, it bespeaks volumes about him - - - - otherwise, for one of his routine setups, just go to about the 9:30 mark for a minute or so.

 

Been there, done that, understand where y'all are coming from - but in this case, he is well worth investigating - IMO.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV23dsXVMMo&feature=feedbul]‪Live Crude Oil Trading and timely announcement for all traders‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

[RangeExpansion 10]

Eh, no harm done when you're raking in 100k a month or more in "student" fees right? Must be nice.

 

Nothing will change imo. He'll probably end up earning even more from this little drama in the long run because of his "honesty" and willingness to remain "open and transparent". :rofl:

 

Watching this unfold makes compels me start selling bullsh*it too. There seems to be an incredible demand for it.

[NoProblem 10]

why did you change your handle?

 

 

 

you can change your name, but you can't hide your personality.

 

ROFL!

 

My name is Steve. It's been my name for my entire 51 years...............WTH are you talking about?

 

I used to post like crazy about Rob on ET - - - till he got sick of the unknowing and immature nitwits and told me to stop.

 

At any rate, I can promise one thing - if I was Rob, I sure as heck wouild not be posting on message boards lol.

 

Here's a screen shot of where I am right now - not that the stubbornly unknowing folks will believe it, but that's how that goes.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12396740/Capture.PNG

[JackR 10]

Lots of trading boards have been "interested" in the $312K loss. Hoffman put out a video to calm things down. Here is the link. It's 5 minutes long..

 

‪Handling a Loss as a Professional Trader‬‏ - YouTube

 

Here is a brief extract from a comment about the video from another board.

 

This guy babbles on and on without ever talking about his "impressive drawdown". No mention of the important thing...how much did he lose on Thursday vs how much he normally makes on a winning day.

(snip)

If you want to blow out your account, this is the guy to learn from.

 

Jack

[the_z 10]

haha...nice video Rob put on youtube!

 

I so admire him now...i want to join him and give him endless wankering handjobs as NoProblem is doing. :puke:

 

its a "neat opportunity" to learn what rob does "each and every day" to learn more. :crap:

 

It looks he's trying hard to keep customers---or perhaps he was told to put out a video or he'll be fired.

[MightyMouse 12]

haha...nice video Rob put on youtube!

 

I so admire him now...i want to join him and give him endless wankering handjobs as NoProblem is doing. :puke:

 

its a "neat opportunity" to learn what rob does "each and every day" to learn more. :crap:

 

It looks he's trying hard to keep customers---or perhaps he was told to put out a video or he'll be fired.

 

If you were a a trader who sat patiently and took the opposite side of his trades even on his good days, right now your account would be swollen by some pretty decent number.

 

It tales a real man to do that. So, it would really pay to have followed him.