Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

v101

Real Time - False Signals

Recommended Posts

I have been seeking feedback from programmers if there are any "other" ways to overcome the issue of programming with Multi-Time Frames.

 

An issue I have is when you program an indicator to use real time data and also process data real-time, what happens is the signals may look valid based on the real time criteria at that particular moment in time....

 

But then before the higher time frame is actually closed, price can go opposite to your intended signal(s) and then if you reload the chart, your indicator plot, or signal goes away. We call these phantom triggers, and repainting.

 

 

So there are a few ways to deal with this, and each programming method introduces some cons.

 

The method would be to force the indicator to wait for a BAR CLOSE on the higher time frame, This results in valid signals being generated, but could lead to late signals, due to causing the indicator to WAIT for the CLOSE before it calculates the entry.

 

So my question is for those that are using indicators based on Multi-Time Frame, is how do you overcome these issues, if you want your indicators to not repaint signals, and not give phantom triggers?

 

Any ideas, or recent developments in this area are appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there are a few philosophical questions to ponder before you can go further

 

1. Waiting for bar close

 

you mention " late signals".

 

how late?

how disadvantaged are you by waiting for bar close?

what is your profit projection?

what is the percentage of "perceived profit" lost due to the wait ???

is your mother going to disown you because you have missed a portion of the profit?

 

what other "profits" have you missed other than the late signal?

what is the percentage of this late signal induced "loss profit" in relation to ALL the other missed opportunities?

 

 

2. false signals

 

if a signal was triggered intrabar,

but the signal was nolonger there at EOB,

is that still a signal?

was the trigger valid ????

 

if the signal should not have been there in the first place,

or, if a momentary "signal" that could never have produced any meaningful profit,

why spend time on it NOW?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Waiting for bar close, results in late entry into trades.

But often times when I review my signals from real-time, and then enable the bar close feature, the signals shift due to what we already know about basing the decision on the forced close.

 

I dont get penalized other than getting into the trade a little later than I'd like when I use the forced close option.

 

I wanted to just get some ideas from other programmers, who have thought of some different ways to get around this issue. But I think if anyone basis the decisions on real - time, that they will have this issue, as real time is real time. and waiting for a CLOSE, basis the decision on the historical close, resulting in valid signals, and no false signals.

 

Good point though, just use the forced close option, and move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

how late?

Sometimes a bar or 2 bars.

 

how disadvantaged are you by waiting for bar close?

 

Not really disadvantaged, just later entry that I'd like...

 

what is your profit projection?

 

what is the percentage of "perceived profit" lost due to the wait ???

There is a difference, I'd have to go back and review my back-testing results to determine exactly what the % difference is.

 

is your mother going to disown you because you have missed a portion of the profit?

 

:haha: :haha: Probably not..

 

what other "profits" have you missed other than the late signal?

 

Profits are profits!

 

what is the percentage of this late signal induced "loss profit" in relation to ALL the other missed opportunities?

 

 

2. false signals

 

if a signal was triggered intrabar,

but the signal was nolonger there at EOB,

is that still a signal?

was the trigger valid ????

 

If a false signal is plotted, then NO its not a valid trigger, these are what I am trying to avoid.

 

if the signal should not have been there in the first place,

or, if a momentary "signal" that could never have produced any meaningful profit,

why spend time on it NOW?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...

what other "profits" have you missed other than the late signal?

 

Profits are profits!

 

what is the percentage of this late signal induced "loss profit" in relation to ALL the other missed opportunities?

 

sure profits are profits...

 

but do you have the ability to buy at the lowest tick and sell at the highest tick at EVERY oscillation of the market during the day?

 

if not, then you are MISSING out on some of the profits.

why don't you cry over those "missed" profits ???

 

the fact is, nobody can take ALL the profit that are made available by the market

you can only take a portion of the total

some can take more

some can only take a bit

 

look for the train that is coming,

not the train that you missed.

Edited by Tams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
how late?

Sometimes a bar or 2 bars.

...

 

how many bars in the run?

 

10 bars?

and you missed 2?

 

big deal

 

 

but if there's only 3 bars in the run,

and you missed 2,

did you really missed anything?

 

 

trading is a philosophy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi v101

 

trading is a philosophy

TAMS gives interesting "Greek" questions ;=)

 

about blinking signal

 

if Condition1 then

PlotPaintBar( Low, High, "Your.Indic", Up.Color, default, 10 )

else if Condition2 then

PlotPaintBar( Low, High, "Your.Indic", Dn.Color, default, 10 )

Else Begin

NoPlot(1); // blinking

End;

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a philosophical issue rather than a programming issue. Wait for HTF close or don't the choice is yours. Use a slightly shorter period for the HTF is a possibility. It's the age old trade off, enter on trigger or wait for confirmation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The solution is not to use two timeframes but to use an extra version of your indicators in the main timeframe that proxy what the indicator would show in the secondary timeframe. For example, I use 33 EMA as a central part of my methodology and I also use a 99 EMA that provides, by proxy, the infor of a higher TF.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • PTCT PTC Therapeutics stock watch, trending with a pull back to 45.17 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?PTCT
    • APPS Digital Turbine stock, nice rally off the 1.47 triple+ support area, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?APPS
    • Date: 20th December 2024.   BOE Sees More Support For Rate Cuts As USD Strengthens!   The US Dollar continues to rise in value after obtaining further support from positive economic and employment data. However, the hawkish Federal Reserve continues to support the currency. On the other hand, the Great British Pound comes under significant strain. Why is the GBPUSD declining? GBPUSD - Why is the GBPUSD Declining? The GBPUSD is witnessing bullish price movement for three primary reasons. The first is the Federal Reserve’s Monetary Policy, the second is the positive US news releases from yesterday and the third is the votes from the Bank of England’s Monetary Policy Committee.     Even though the Bank of England chose to keep interest rates unchanged at 4.75%, the number of votes to cut indicates dovishness in the upcoming months. Previously, traders were expecting the BoE to remain cautious due to inflation rising to 2.6% and positive employment data. In addition to this, the Retail Sales data from earlier this morning only rose 0.2%, lower than expectations adding pressure to GBP. Investors also should note that the two currencies did not conflict and price action was driven by both an increasing USD and a declining GBP. The US Dollar rose in value against all currencies, except for the Swiss Franc, against which it saw a slight decline. The GBP fell against all currencies, except for the GBPJPY, which ended higher solely due to earlier gains. US Monetary Policy and Macroeconomics The bullish price movement seen within the US Dollar Index continues to partially be due to its hawkish monetary policy. Particularly, indications from Jerome Powell that the Fed will only cut on two occasions and the first cut will take place in May. However, in addition to this the economic data from yesterday continues to illustrate a resilient and growing economy. This also supports the Fed’s approach to monetary policy and its efforts to push inflation back to the 2% target. The US GDP rose 3.1% over the past quarter beating expectations of 2.8%. The GDP rate of 3.1% is also higher than the first two quarters of 2024 (1.4% & 3.0%). In addition to this, the US Weekly Unemployment Claims fell from 242,000 to 220,000 and existing home sales rose to 4.15 million. Home sales in the latest month rose to an 8-month high. For this reason, the US Dollar rose in value against most currencies throughout the day. Analysts believe the US Dollar will continue to perform well due to less frequent rate cuts and tariffs. The US Dollar Index trades 1.65% higher this week. Bank of England Sees Increased Support for Rate Cuts! The Bank of England kept interest rates unchanged as per market’s previous expectations. The decision is determined by a committee of nine members and at least five of them must vote for a cut for the central bank to proceed. Analysts anticipated only two members voting for a cut, but three did. This signals a dovish tone and increases the likelihood of earlier rate cuts in 2025. The three members that voted for a rate cut were Dave Ramsden, Swati Dhingra, and Alan Taylor. Advocates for lower rates believe the current policy is too restrictive and risks pushing inflation well below the 2.0% target in the medium term. Meanwhile, supporters of keeping the current monetary policy argue that it's unclear if rising business costs will increase consumer prices, reduce jobs, or slow wage growth. However, if markets continue to expect a more dovish Bank of England in 2025, the GBP could come under further pressure. In 2024, the GBP was the best performing currency after the US Dollar and outperformed the Euro, Yen and Swiss Franc. This was due to the Bank of England’s reluctance to adjust rates at a similar pace to other central banks. GBPUSD - Technical Analysis In terms of the price of the exchange, most analysts believe the GBPUSD will continue to decline so long as the Federal Reserve retains their hawkish tone. The exchange rate continues to form lower swing lows and lower highs. The price trades below most moving averages on the 2-hour timeframe and below the neutral level on oscillators. On the 5-minute timeframe, the price moves back towards the 200-bar SMA, but sell signals may materialise if the price falls back below 1.24894.     Key Takeaways: The US Dollar increases in value for a third consecutive day and increases its monthly rise to 2.32%. The US Dollar Index was the best performing currency of Thursday’s session, along with the Swiss Franc. US Gross Domestic Product rises to 3.1% beating economist’s expectations of 2.8%. US Weekly Unemployment Claims read 220,000, 22,000 less than the previous week and lower than expectations. The NASDAQ declines further and trades 5.00% lower than the previous lows. The GBPUSD ends the day 0.56% lower and falls more than 1% after the Bank of England’s rate decision. Three Members of the BoE vote to cut interest rates. The GBP was the worst performing currency of the day along with the Japanese Yen. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news. Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 19th December 2024.   Federal Reserve Sparks NASDAQ’s Sharpest Selloff of 2024!   The NASDAQ fell more than 3.60% after the Federal Reserve cut interest rates, but gave hawkish comments. The stock market saw its largest decline witnessed in 2024 so far, as investors opted to cash in profits and not risk in the short-medium term. What did Chairman Powell reveal, and how does it impact the NASDAQ? The NASDAQ Falls To December Lows After Fed Guidance! The NASDAQ and US stock market in general saw a considerable decline after the press conference of the Federal Reserve. The USA100 ended the day 3.60% lower and saw only 1 of its 100 stocks avoid a decline. Of the most influential stocks the worst performers were Tesla (-8.28%), Broadcom (-6.91%) and Amazon (-4.60%).     When monitoring the broader stock market, similar conditions are seen confirming the investor sentiment is significantly lower and not solely related to the tech industry. The worst performing sectors are the housing and banking sectors. However, investors should also note that the decline was partially due to a build-up of profits over the past months. As a result, investors could easily sell and reduce exposure to cash in profits and lower their risk appetite. Analysts note that despite the Federal Reserve's hawkish stance, the Chairman provided a positive outlook. He highlighted optimism for the economy and the employment sector. Therefore, many analysts continue to believe that investors will buy the dip, even if it’s not imminent. A Hawkish Federal Reserve And Powell’s Guidance Even though traditional economics suggests a rate cut benefits the stock market, the market had already priced in the cut. As a result, the rate cut could no longer influence prices. Investors are now focusing on how the Federal Reserve plans to cut in 2025. This is what triggered the selloff and the decline. Investors were looking for indications of 3-4 rate cuts by the Federal Reserve in 2025 and for the first cut to be in March. However, analysts advise that the forward guidance by the Chairman, Jerome Powell, clearly indicates 2 rate adjustments. In addition to this, analysts believe the Fed will now cut next in May 2025. The average expectation now is that the Federal Reserve will cut 0.25% on two occasions in 2025. The Fed also advised that it is too early to know the effect of tariffs and “when the path is uncertain, you go slower”. This added to the hawkish tone of the central bank. However, surveys indicate that 15% of analysts believe the Federal Reserve will be forced into cutting rates at a faster pace. As a result, the US Dollar Index rose 1.25% and Bond Yields to a 7-month high. For investors, this makes other investment categories more attractive and stocks more expensive for foreign investors. However, the average decline the NASDAQ has seen before investors buy the dip is 13% ($19,320). This will also be a key level for investors if the NASDAQ continues to decline. NASDAQ - Technical Analysis Due to the bearish volatility, the price of the NASDAQ is trading below all major Moving Averages and Oscillators on the 2-Hour chart. After retracement the oscillators are no longer indicating an oversold price and continue to point to a bearish bias. Sell indications are likely to strengthen if the price declines below $21,222.60 in the short-term.       Key Takeaways: A hawkish Federal Reserve cut interest rates by 0.25% and indicates only 2 rate cuts in 2025! The stock market witnesses its worst day of 2024 due to the Fed’s hawkish forward guidance. Economists do not expect a rate cut before May 2025. Housing and bank stocks fell more than 4%. Investors are cashing in their gains and not looking to risk while the Fed is unlikely to cut again until May 2025. The US Dollar Index rises close to its highest level since November 2022. US Bond Yields also rise to their highest since May 2024. The NASDAQ’s average decline in 2024 before investors opt to purchase the dip is 13%. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news. Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • SNAP stock at 11.38 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?SNAP
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.