Baffled by "Reminiscences" Believers

[ahimsa 10]

I'm not one of the greatest trader in the world ,(i'm very little and i learn again,from a book,from real and demo trade,but more from all you. reading your directly experience and point of view ,also if many posts i think that are like many financial journal,that needed to be read between the lines.)but i read reminescence two years ago.i think that it is one of the more realistic book never wrote before about a man that in his life had touch in all kind of way what really mean to have a big success in trading,and become a legend from all the financial world,but also what really mean lose all his success money and life.I think that reminescence is a book that have not only one reading key,it is a very complete book,because analyzed in all side the aspect of trading,summarized his true life without omitted the most important psichological aspect that take him to suicide.Financial market is a sector very dangerous,especially high finance,many time should be better to discover to being a little investor and try to help one with other that believe to being a big and important magnate and kill all,never lose the mental control.Is very difficult because this isn't a field that don't made difference from woman and man .Is a fascinating but at the same time orrible field,where the first rule is,more you will being an alien and better you will being able.If a legend like livermore commeted suicide,is true that mm and psichology are two element that we can't undervalue.Because also if we are a big trader and have all world experience is true that for some reason also the smallest psichological we can lose our head and reason and we can sit in our armchair and become the stander of our day -loss.Especially if we are ipnotyzed from the loss and was withouth stop-loss.I'm sure out of theme, in the next phrase and i say sorry to you,but for me is important the stop.loss i don't use it ever many time i used a mental stop loss.but when i'm studyng in demo for example (in real i use ever)i can observe that 5 time up 7 if i don't want close my loss and lose ad example a bit 300€or $ and i'm in mental stop-loss ,i saw ever my loss sail far away and lose 1700€.this is a kind of virtual suicide.And if will happen in real,?and if will happen with a big trade with many money isn't a true way if someone fall in a bad psichological time,can add with other problem that every people had in real life,isn't cannot a

thing that bring to commited a suicide act?

 

bye certenotti

Edited February 24, 2011 by ahimsa

[Elroch 10]

The book is an excellent lesson in money (mis)management

[Martinigue 10]

  BlowFish said:

Of course that is your prerogative. Win or loose it arguably has more trading wisdom than any other book published. It has several different levels. If you read Market Wizards you will see it is often recommended in fact one trader kept a stack of them and it was mandatory reading for his new traders.

 

As for the 'manipulations' now being illegal, that is largely guff. Large positions are accumulated and distributed in pretty much the same way now as they where then.

 

BlowFIsh - Win Or Lose It, that was the title, or what was the name and author of the book you referring to, if you'd care to reiterate ...?:-)

[crabbydog 10]

He was a gambler who also often operated with syndicates on inside information. he blew his fortune several times. He was also regarded by people such as Gann and Wyckoff as an honorable man and a great trader.

 

There are lessons in there, but mainly what not to do. There are some pearls of wisdom (such as avoiding the noise, controlling emotion etc, but all modern books will say the same thing.

 

There are no techniques or indicators, and nothing that will help define specific trades for you. It's a great read. It is worth reading, but its not a bible and modern books (the good ones) are better.

 

Someone mentioned Edwards and Magee, but if its pattern trading you want, Bulkowski is better.because he analyses statistically according to modern markets, and more of the successful old patterns are breaking down more often now.

[MightyMouse 12]

  crabbydog said:

He was a gambler who also often operated with syndicates on inside information. he blew his fortune several times. He was also regarded by people such as Gann and Wyckoff as an honorable man and a great trader.

 

There are lessons in there, but mainly what not to do. There are some pearls of wisdom (such as avoiding the noise, controlling emotion etc, but all modern books will say the same thing.

 

There are no techniques or indicators, and nothing that will help define specific trades for you. It's a great read. It is worth reading, but its not a bible and modern books (the good ones) are better.

 

Someone mentioned Edwards and Magee, but if its pattern trading you want, Bulkowski is better.because he analyses statistically according to modern markets, and more of the successful old patterns are breaking down more often now.

 

Personally, I think you have to be as gullible as can be to buy his stories of trading in the bucket shops early on. It's pure nonsensical, uncorroborated bullshit. If he were smart, he would know that the odds where stacked heavily against him in the bucket shops and he wouldn't trade. But, of course, he beat them all. Its as credible as reading about Paul Bunyan. It's a Wall St. tall tale. But, as Crabby dog said, he was a gambler.

[davidjohnhall 10]

  lightstar said:

hmm, this was on my short list of future books to read, but after reading all these comments i think i'll move it to the end of the list. i appreciate all the intelligent responses; i'm glad i joined this forum :-)

 

This is one of the books most recommended by some of the biggest names in trading. Masters of the craft. If they told me Spongebob Squarepants could help take my trading to the next level I would be flipping to Nickelodeon faster than you could say...Spongebob Squarepants.

 

I would say read it, draw your own conclusions, then give your opinions on the book here. You might think it's the worst book ever written about trading. You might think it's one of the best. But the opinion would be yours.

 

I think it's one of the best books I've read..trading related or not.. In a list of about 10. Not only do I like Jessee Livermore, warts and all, I like the idea of Livermore. I like him standing in front of his mansions in photo's. I like him in the bucketshops outsmarting them. I like him making millions. I like him going broke. Let's face it, he's iconic. He doesn't need to be honest. He doesn't need to be pure. He doesn't need to be anything to anybody. I'm not sure why anyone needs him to be.

 

I'm currently reading a book called Wolf on Wall Street. In the first 5 pages this guy is high on drugs and flying a helicopter into the ground. Like it or not, Wall Street is the wild west. It's not pretty (well it is shiny) and it's not sending out any appology letters. And that's how I see Livermore.

 

It's an adult story. About an adult topic. Let us know what you think.

[lightstar 10]

  davidjohnhall said:

This is one of the books most recommended by some of the biggest names in trading. Masters of the craft. If they told me Spongebob Squarepants could help take my trading to the next level I would be flipping to Nickelodeon faster than you could say...Spongebob Squarepants.

 

I would say read it, draw your own conclusions, then give your opinions on the book here. You might think it's the worst book ever written about trading. You might think it's one of the best. But the opinion would be yours.

 

I think it's one of the best books I've read..trading related or not.. In a list of about 10. Not only do I like Jessee Livermore, warts and all, I like the idea of Livermore. I like him standing in front of his mansions in photo's. I like him in the bucketshops outsmarting them. I like him making millions. I like him going broke. Let's face it, he's iconic. He doesn't need to be honest. He doesn't need to be pure. He doesn't need to be anything to anybody. I'm not sure why anyone needs him to be.

 

I'm currently reading a book called Wolf on Wall Street. In the first 5 pages this guy is high on drugs and flying a helicopter into the ground. Like it or not, Wall Street is the wild west. It's not pretty (well it is shiny) and it's not sending out any appology letters. And that's how I see Livermore.

 

It's an adult story. About an adult topic. Let us know what you think.

 

will do. just finished Tape reading and market tactics by Humphrey; it was ok. Currently reading Techniques of Tape reading by Graifer and DbPhoenix's ebook, both of which are excellent :-)

[zdo 20]

  robertm said:

I would be hard pressed to get beyond 10 books on "trading" I'd actually recommend to people as worthwhile, so I'm intrigued what your top 50 would be ZDO?

 

robertm, I understand what you're getting at. After sales and giveaways a couple years back, I probably still have 400-500 ‘trading’ books on my shelves. Themes are all over the board – technical classics, how to trade books for a bunch of different styles and levels, MM and fund mgmt, trading ‘psychology’ books, investing books, and even a pretty good stack of out of print more esoteric trading books present and future generations will unfortunately never see. I could go through and pull out what to me are the top 50 and / or 100. But with each passing year I am decreasingly likely to want to build such a list for others – generally or for an individual.

 

I do probably have a few more than 10 'trading' books on my 'gem- quality' list - but several of them made gem quality by the impact that sections, even paragraphs or single sentences, had on me. As I posted before, it's how we fill in the 'gaps', not the content itself, that makes a book significant. Skimming through this thread provides good examples of how the filling in the gaps widely varies btwn different 'types' of ppl.

 

Each individual’s makeup - mind, structures, belief mapping, tendencies, etc. - is INSEPARABLE from his or her trading capacities and tendencies. Without his ‘conditions’, Jesse would not have lived, acted, traded the way he did. This inseparability is much more subtle for ‘normals’, but is still vitally important to fish out and integrate. I have been banging on about this for several months over at http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f37/edge-first-integration-first-both-first-8410.html

[clmacdougall 11]

  zdo said:

robertm, I understand what you're getting at. After sales and giveaways a couple years back, I probably still have 400-500 ‘trading’ books on my shelves. Themes are all over the board – technical classics, how to trade books for a bunch of different styles and levels, MM and fund mgmt, trading ‘psychology’ books, investing books, and even a pretty good stack of out of print more esoteric trading books present and future generations will unfortunately never see. I could go through and pull out what to me are the top 50 and / or 100. But with each passing year I am decreasingly likely to want to build such a list for others – generally or for an individual.

 

I do probably have a few more than 10 'trading' books on my 'gem- quality' list - but several of them made gem quality by the impact that sections, even paragraphs or single sentences, had on me. As I posted before, it's how we fill in the 'gaps', not the content itself, that makes a book significant. Skimming through this thread provides good examples of how the filling in the gaps widely varies btwn different 'types' of ppl.

 

Each individual’s makeup - mind, structures, belief mapping, tendencies, etc. - is INSEPARABLE from his or her trading capacities and tendencies. Without his ‘conditions’, Jesse would not have lived, acted, traded the way he did. This inseparability is much more subtle for ‘normals’, but is still vitally important to fish out and integrate. I have been banging on about this for several months over at http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f37/edge-first-integration-first-both-first-8410.html

 

 

I would sure love to see that gem list zdo, please consider sharing it. I can totally identify with the value of a trading book being in a sentence or paragraph alone. Something within it causes you to question something which you never did before leading you to change and grasp a reality you would never have had if you didn't read that small bit. It's hard to recommend the book though as the better part of it is useless other than what it causes you to question.

[Fudomyo 10]

This poll is subjective and biased. Excellent qualities to avoid as a trader.

 

Someone can find value in a book without it being sacred. Can be aware that Livermore took his own life with it changing their perspective of the information they found useful. A trader doesn't need to only judge their performance on times they're making money to find some benefit in the information Livermore shared during a period he was successful.

 

I'm far more interested in reading the thoughts a successful person than the criticisms of someone who isn't.

[gosu 10]

"It takes a man a long time to learn all the lessons of his mistakes. They say there are two sides to everything. But there is only one side to the stock market; and it is not the bull side or the bear side, but the right side."

 

AMEN

[WHY? 16]

Livermore knew the markets and he knew human weakness. Both are seen in the book. Even though he knew what to do he didn't always follow the correct path. Hence his life shows a passion for the markets, and understanding of them, the errors that can be made, and human weakness in avoiding the errors. True the markets have changed somewhat today but the lessons are still the same because humans are the same and the markets are still the markets even though the players have changed and the methods have changed.

 

I see his book more as a story of ones mans experience with his passion, the markets, and the mistakes he made. Me thinks we can always learn from others experience. The failures of his personal life were also probally directly connected to his passion of trading the markets. Could be a lesson there for us too??

 

Strategically and tactically there are some lessons that can be learned that would even apply even in todays markets.

 

The finale is a sad story, however, one must view it in perspective of where Livermore came from ..his roots... his rose to fame..his ever increasing passion..his failures in the markets and in his personal life... and his wanning energies as he got older. I suspect he just didn't think he had to in himself to go through it all again to get back to where he once was and his failures in his personal life were a heavy weight on him. And that was something he couldn't undo. He could always come back in the markets but his marriages were over with. I think the weight of it all was just too much for him.

 

But that certainly doesn't mean nothing can't be learned from his life. Much can.

[Kojak 10]

If one is judging the book then we should understand the old aphorism " To know whether an egg is good or bad you do not have to know how to lay one" . If the book is being criticized, because ultimately as a trader he was a failure, then every sports commentator or literary critic who either attempted to play or write, should be kicked out of her job.

 

The book undoubtedly is brilliant event though it may not be completely applicable to the current markets. But that again is a point of view. The success of the book is undisputed because the market for books has decided it is a winner. It continues to sell even now.

 

And the real icing on the cake is the fact that he writes from real experiences and very nearly being a trading success -many times .

 

Jose Kollamkulam

 

 

  WHY? said:

Livermore knew the markets and he knew human weakness. Both are seen in the book. Even though he knew what to do he didn't always follow the correct path. Hence his life shows a passion for the markets, and understanding of them, the errors that can be made, and human weakness in avoiding the errors. True the markets have changed somewhat today but the lessons are still the same because humans are the same and the markets are still the markets even though the players have changed and the methods have changed.

 

I see his book more as a story of ones mans experience with his passion, the markets, and the mistakes he made. Me thinks we can always learn from others experience. The failures of his personal life were also probally directly connected to his passion of trading the markets. Could be a lesson there for us too??

 

Strategically and tactically there are some lessons that can be learned that would even apply even in todays markets.

 

The finale is a sad story, however, one must view it in perspective of where Livermore came from ..his roots... his rose to fame..his ever increasing passion..his failures in the markets and in his personal life... and his wanning energies as he got older. I suspect he just didn't think he had to in himself to go through it all again to get back to where he once was and his failures in his personal life were a heavy weight on him. And that was something he couldn't undo. He could always come back in the markets but his marriages were over with. I think the weight of it all was just too much for him.

 

But that certainly doesn't mean nothing can't be learned from his life. Much can.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Kojak

[Wes 10]

I think the book is lame for current markets, but I read it a long time ago, so maybe I'd have a different opinion on a fresh reading.

 

It's the kind of book I'd expect someone to write about Forex nowadays. "Look at all these bucket shops cheating me!" :o

[MightyMouse 12]

The book has little value other than learning what not to do. It's more of an ego boost for JL than anything else.

 

You have to be pretty gullible to buy his story.

[JohnTaylorHK 10]

Unfortunately, unable to vote in the poll as there is not "Yes I have read it and found no benefit".

 

Ingot54, what you say about market manipulation is 100% on the money.

[strohem 10]

I last "plunged" on October 5... by covering short positions and buying back puts.

 

I can't say I'd ever hand over my money to Jesse Livermore. I have read his (auto) biography. My 16 year old son would even call him "mental." It is clear to see he was bipolar and self-destructive.

 

 

I'm pleased with my +23.59% YTD performance in 2011.