Started E-mini Paper

[johnnycakes78704 10]

Yeah, it seems pretty obvious you're missing, not something, but a lot with respect to thinking your paper trading will emulate anything close to what you will get trading real money. Here's something simple to help you put it into perspective. I want you to keep paper trading and then report back when you have have lost money for at least five days straight. All I've seen you report is winning days. And since you can "game" your paper trading results, most end up doing this deliberately and/or unintentionally. You won't get cut that kind of slack (in fact, you won't get cut ANY slack) when trading live. Once you figure out how to lose paper money, then take another step, a real step. Set a goal of trading live for as long as you can until you have lost $1,000 in real money (consider it the first installment on your tuition because you will be paying it and probably lots more) and then have at it. You'll be humbled by how quick this drawdown happens and then you will begin to understand the gulf between paper and live trading. In the meantime, check out edabreu's post here...a thoroughly insightful post for you to chew on in the meantime.

 

I'd be happy to provide you my logs of each in and out trade. As far as having only positive days, yes that is absolutely right, I've only had positive days for the past two weeks. I'm not gaming any trades and when I would make a trade, am immediately inputting it into my log. There have been losing trades, definitely.

 

In fact, here is the day number, trade day, date, daily points, number of trades, contracts traded per trade, daily profit, cumulative profit, and weekly points:

 

1 Wed 24-Nov-10 2.50 2 1 $118 $118 $-

2 Thu 25-Nov-10 0.00 0 0 $- $118 $-

3 Fri 26-Nov-10 2.25 1 1 $109 $227 $- 4.75

4 Mon 29-Nov-10 8.50 1 1 $422 $649 $-

5 Tue 30-Nov-10 11.50 3 1 $565 $1,213 $-

6 Wed 01-Dec-10 11.25 4 1 $549 $1,762 $-

7 Thu 02-Dec-10 8.00 6 1 $379 $2,141 $-

8 Fri 03-Dec-10 12.75 7 1 $613 $2,754 $- 52.00

9 Mon 06-Dec-10 4.75 6.5 1 $215 $2,968 $-

10 Tue 07-Dec-10 15.00 4.5 1 $734 $3,703 $-

 

I edited the log on the 1st of December to include my in's/outs and designate short/cover.

 

6.) Wed 01-Dec-10 1195 1200.25 1199 1201 1204.25 1207 1204 1205.25

7.) Thu 02-Dec-10 1204.5 1214 1215 1216 1216 1215 S 1221.25 C 1220.25

8.) Fri 03-Dec-10 1215.5 1220.25 1219 1221.25 1217.75 1219.5 S 1218.50 C 1217.50 1217 1217.75 1217.25 1218.75 1218 1219

9.) Mon 06-Dec-10 S 1218.50 C 1220(stopped) 1221.5 1222.5 1222.5 1223.5 1223.25 1224.5 1224.25 1224.75 S 1222.50 S 1220 1123.75 (long to next day)

10.) Tue 07-Dec-10 (long from previous day)1234.5 1233.75 1233.25 S 1229.50 1228.5 1228.5 1230.75 1229.75 1230

 

 

Perhaps you missed this earlier, especially given your comment of how I need to pay an installment loss, but I've traded stocks for many years, am licensed, and understand the mindset, had losses of several thousand on a day before and been down for weeks at a time, which was really rough. The emini is a new instrument for me and I am schooling myself to acquire the knowledge to do this for income, as, after all, isn't that what we all want?

 

News: Watch the Announcement Calendar the day before:

 

Economic Calendar - Bloomberg

 

do not be trading when the red or yellow stars are about to happen.

 

Supp/Res Lines:

Probably S1 and R1 should be of interest. S2 and R2 are the important lines:

 

Iris, I just saw the bloomberg calendar on a webcast about indicators and when to stay out of market and I definitely agree to stay out when market swaying news is about to be released.

 

Thank you for the S/R 1 and S/R 2 lines to watch.

[suckassjuice 10]

Like I said, just keep futzing around with your paper account until you have 5 days of losses. After you have another 10 straight days of profit, and then another 10 straight days and you can't seem to have a down day to save your life, you might begin to understand (but I doubt it) the limitation of paper trading. In looking closer at your results, I think your ready. Come on in, the waters fine.

[WHY? 16]

I would suggest going to a live demo account. It definitley isn't the same as live trading ....the emotional factor is left almost entirely out (as it doesn't hurt to lose play money) and there is the slippage factor. However, that said, live demo accounts can be useful for preliminary testing of a system. Plus the demo gives you a feel for the platform. The final step is starting with real money. That is really the only real test because all the factors are in play. Back when I started we didn't have live demo around or if they were out there I didn't know anything about them so I basically started out of the gates with real money. Might have done a tad bit of papertrading first ..not sure.

 

Once starting with real money live I would suggest trading small size until you really see if your strategies work in the real world.

 

If you trade the night session at all do small size only. When NQ and Dow track together in same direction many times the S&P follows in the wake (day session).

 

In general I don't trade news. I figure it is already discounted in the price action. I use classical tapereading and support/resistance in trading.

 

Good luck

Edited December 7, 2010 by WHY?

[johnnycakes78704 10]

Like I said, just keep futzing around with your paper account until you have 5 days of losses. After you have another 10 straight days of profit, and then another 10 straight days and you can't seem to have a down day to save your life, you might begin to understand (but I doubt it) the limitation of paper trading. In looking closer at your results, I think your ready. Come on in, the waters fine.

 

I understand the limits of paper trading, believe me. I've done paper trading for stocks before I put my money where my proverbial pen was.

 

My next step is to sign up for a demo account w/ live feed for two weeks or so and then fund the account to go live. I still have a few weeks before going live, and am anticipating a change within the trades and gains during this period which will require a tweaking of my approach. I'll see how my existing approach works first though and makes changes then.

 

@Why?

I'll definitely begin small. 1 contract only until sufficient account size and experience warrants two contracts, and even then, will only do two on occasion until sufficient experience and funding is applied.

[bathrobe 10]

Stopped today at 11:33 after a 15 point gain today over 4 trades.

 

If you paper traded and had similar results and then went live, what was the difference in your paper trading points vs real points?

 

I've decided to start trading in January instead of waiting until late February/early March. I'll be researching platforms and going with real-time practice accounts for a few weeks on different platforms to see what I like then take the plunge.

 

 

 

what numbers do you look at?

 

I use numbers that come from extensive analysis, but the numbers you posted were not ES numbers, I would start there

[johnnycakes78704 10]

Gone into live demo mode w/ Ninja trader and Zenfire from Mirus Futures. I've not used these systems before and there will be a bit of a ramp up for me with this platform while I play with it. will still be doing the paper trading while I get familiarized with this.

 

Thanks!

[bathrobe 10]

Gone into live demo mode w/ Ninja trader and Zenfire from Mirus Futures. I've not used these systems before and there will be a bit of a ramp up for me with this platform while I play with it. will still be doing the paper trading while I get familiarized with this.

 

Thanks!

 

live demo/sim is paper trading. What were/are you calling paper trading?

[WHY? 16]

live demo/sim is paper trading. What were/are you calling paper trading?

 

LOL you gotta be only computer age trading. Semantics.

[johnnycakes78704 10]

What indicators within the software are most applicable to you? What do you use? there's something I am missing, I'm connected to a live feed but the chart only loads to when I DL'd the program earlier yesterday, no current data is available......hmmm....

 

live demo/sim is paper trading. What were/are you calling paper trading?

 

Using a delayed feed. Now it is a live feed, once I get it all configured.

 

LOL you gotta be only computer age trading. Semantics.

 

Edited December 8, 2010 by johnnycakes78704

[johnnycakes78704 10]

Finally got the charts to load and am viewing the live feed, now trying to get a sense of the day's markets. Added the Bollinger Band, Buy/Sell Volume, and Momentum. Will be reviewing different indicators to see what makes the best indicators for the rest of today. Been WAY too swamped with over half our office out to pay any sort of close attention to the market, so I've kept out of it. Possibly may tomorrow as well, depending on how much time I can dedicate to this.

[Tams 20]

you are a rock star, you don' t need to paper trade... just go ahead and trade live.

in no time you will be offering an advisory service, collecting fees to your trading room.

bravo !

[johnnycakes78704 10]

Tams, I already know I'm a rockstar but I'm a solo artist :thumbs up:

 

Although, thanks for the vote of confidence... :doh:

[bathrobe 10]

What indicators within the software are most applicable to you?

 

I use no indicators in the sense that you mean.

 

Find what works for you, if you can actually pull in 15 pts a day, I am confused as to why you are posting about paper trading.

[jackb 10]

No, for real, it doesn't appear you're missing a single thing. Glad to hear your with Mirus. NT is quite possibly the greatest trading platform out there. And, wow, with that Zen-fire connection, you'll be able to trade really, really, REALLY fast. And did you know that's unfiltered data! You've got all the bases covered. As it stands now, each day you wait you're actually losing money. When do you think you'll make your first trade? Tomorrow the market should be rockin! There's sure to be lot's of tradable moves.

[robertm 10]

I'm still debating if I should laugh or cry. I'll just watch on in amusement...

[johnnycakes78704 10]

I use no indicators in the sense that you mean.

 

Find what works for you, if you can actually pull in 15 pts a day, I am confused as to why you are posting about paper trading.

 

The average market moves how many points per day? I'm doing this to learn and practice which is giving me a better opportunity to be profitable down the road, plain and simple.

 

No, for real, it doesn't appear you're missing a single thing. Glad to hear your with Mirus. NT is quite possibly the greatest trading platform out there. And, wow, with that Zen-fire connection, you'll be able to trade really, really, REALLY fast. And did you know that's unfiltered data! You've got all the bases covered. As it stands now, each day you wait you're actually losing money. When do you think you'll make your first trade? Tomorrow the market should be rockin! There's sure to be lot's of tradable moves.

 

I'll begin trading when I have the platform figured out. As of now, it seems after hours data feed doesn't work. I'm not losing money, I'm taking steps to ensure future growth.

[jackb 10]

Yeah, but future growth is a function of current profits (you know, the time value of money). The sooner you start raking it in, the faster it's going to grow...and grow and grow. Don't put it off any longer. You've got a proven track record and as long as you know how to use the platform to get in and out of trade, I would worry about any of that other stuff. It's not worth missing out on profits. :thumbs up:

[johnnycakes78704 10]

Proven track record? Uh, no. And there is no promise of future growth. I'm a firm believer in the 7P's. Proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance. But I'm sure you know this

[johnnycakes78704 10]

I think I found some indicators which I like, an zero lag exponential moving average and Support 1/2 and Resistance 1/2. Yesterday the contract was changed to the 03-11 whereas yesterday I was watching the 12-10 contract, resulting in a difference of price and mistakes on my behalf upon opening today. Was able to pull 3.5 from the market today with an 80% winning average. I took my eye off the ball for a few minutes and it smacked me as soon as I was away.

[johnnycakes78704 10]

This week, with two days out of the market and a fluke on Monday night/Tuesday (based off a hunch for the Ireland bailout and a market overnight gain of 10 points), the net this week was 23.25 points, less than half of the first week. But now I'm using live feed, made some mistakes, and am getting back up to speed. Exclude Tuesday's overnight 10 point gain (which I admit is reckless) and the average gain was almost 4.5 points a day. That is more "normal", is it not? I wonder if this will quell the haters....

[WHY? 16]

reduce that 4,5 points by 75% when going live with real money. if you can make your methodolgy work consistently at the 75% reduced performance level then the money is simply a question of trading size and being disciplined.

 

good luck

[bathrobe 10]

reduce that 4,5 points by 75% when going live with real money. if you can make your methodolgy work consistently at the 75% reduced performance level then the money is simply a question of trading size and being disciplined.

 

good luck

 

First of all, I am trying to help. Pretty much all I learned about futures trading, I learned on my own. Nobody helped me in the beginning. In fact, most were opposed to answering questions and most were treating me like an idiot.

 

What you need, imo is to have self discipline and solid risk management.

 

You will not be aware of the level of difficulty in trading until you place a trade with real money. That is simply a fact.

 

I mean this with no disrespect or cynicism but the points you are saying you make each day as a beginner in the es makes it sound as though you are without a plan or a reason to trade (setup). Instead something like "it's moving, I better get in".

 

I know of 2 or 3 traders who in the beginning ran their account from 10k all the way to 50k in 3-6 months only to lose it all. I have a friend who started with 3k and was making about 5k a week for quite a while.

 

With 9 years of market experience you must have a risk management plan, if you do not, get one.

Edited December 11, 2010 by bathrobe

[WHY? 16]

First of all, I am trying to help. Pretty much all I learned about futures trading, I learned on my own. Nobody helped me in the beginning. In fact, most were opposed to answering questions and most were treating me like an idiot.

 

What you need, imo is to have self discipline and solid risk management.

 

You will not be aware of the level of difficulty in trading until you place a trade with real money. That is simply a fact.

 

I mean this with no disrespect or cynicism but the points you are saying you make each day as a beginner in the es makes it sound as though you are without a plan or a reason to trade (setup). Instead something like "it's moving, I better get in".

 

I know of 2 or 3 traders who in the beginning ran their account from 10k all the way to 50k in 3-6 months only to lose it all. I have a friend who started with 3k and was making about 5k a week for quite a while.

 

With 9 years of market experience you must have a risk management plan, if you do not, get one.

 

Not sure if this was meant for me or johnnycake as you referenced my post not his last one????

[MightyMouse 12]

Yeah, but future growth is a function of current profits (you know, the time value of money). The sooner you start raking it in, the faster it's going to grow...and grow and grow. Don't put it off any longer. You've got a proven track record and as long as you know how to use the platform to get in and out of trade, I would worry about any of that other stuff. It's not worth missing out on profits. :thumbs up:

 

You have an interesting sense of humor

[bathrobe 10]

Not sure if this was meant for me or johnnycake as you referenced my post not his last one????

 

accidentally hit quote instead of reply, meant for Johnnycake