Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

johnnycakes78704

Started E-mini Paper

Recommended Posts

Hi guys. I just started paper trading the /es and was wondering what the results I've gotten so far are normal and expected.

 

A bit of background on me, I've been trading for myself from 2000-2008, becoming licensed with my 7 and 66 during the market crash, taking a job as an Investment Advisor in 09, leaving about a year ago as my wife lost her job and the savings I had from my trading quickly evaporated.

 

I got a job not within the trading or investment world a year ago or so to ensure we could keep our lifestyle, but now I'm getting the bug again. I found out about the ES through this forum and it was recommended to me to start trading that about two years ago or so I think. Well, I was unsure of it as I'd never traded any futures before, sticking strictly to stocks. That has since changed over the past month and I've done alot of research and investigation to be sure I have an accurate grasp of its ins and out.

 

I found an excel spreadsheet and signed up for a practice account. Currently, I'm limiting myself to 1 contract per trade so I gain the maximum experience and understand of the market before I go live.

 

Before I commit capital to this, I have some questions and hopefully will get an answer. :missy:

 

Would you care to share how many points or ticks per trade do you currently make? Do you have a count of how many points per contract per week you are positive? Do you usually finish up your gains early in the day? I see today has netted thus far an 18 point gain. Do you buy/sell consistently throughout the day or hold for a period of time?

 

I started paper trading the week of Thanksgiving and over 2 days gained 4.75 points. More research over the weekend has increased my confidence and through that, I netted 39.25 points this week thus far with just two stop outs (at 1.5 point stops, is that too shallow of a stop?). A goal is to take away as close to 10 points per day as possible. Today is 9 so far and tomorrow I'd like to get at least 11.75 so as to hit the 50 point per week mark. Am I being reasonable in my goal? A search online for emini points per day indicates an average gain of 2 points per day per contract, 10 per week. Is that feasible? Am I missing something? Am I being too ambitious?

 

thank you for your input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you don't care to share your point takes per day or other identifying info I definitely understand, but please provide constructive criticism if you could please take some time out of your day. Thank you :)

 

Today thus far I have been able to pull 12.75 points from the market. I am learning more and more with watching the markets and instead of going long, just taking an average of 2-3 points per trade per contract this week but with todays short trading range the average take is 1.75 points per trade. Is this normal? Is this a sound strategy? The excel sheet being used does have an in/out page and I'm documenting every in and out position, every short/cover, every detail or as much as possible anyways.

 

I'm going to call it for this week, not get into pig mode and take a 12.75 point gain today, increasing the weekly total to 52 points over 21 trades and a paper gain of $2527 this week. For a beginner, is this good/bad/so-so/you suck? :)

Edited by johnnycakes78704

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
.... Is that feasible? Am I missing something? Am I being too ambitious?

 

thank you for your input.

 

If you don't care to share your point takes per day or other identifying info I definitely understand, but please provide constructive criticism if you could please take some time out of your day. Thank you :)

...

 

nobody is responding... because this is not the question a trader would consider in his trading process.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sometimes trade the ES during the night session. I use an hourly chart and a combination of support/resistance zones along with tape reading. By tape reading I mean correlating price with volume. Trading the ES at night (after 5:00 p.m.) on an hourly chart 1.5 to 2 pt stops works pretty good. Profit target .50 to .75. Sometimes a point. General rule if 1 contract hands me 30.00 to 40.00 I like to grab it. This can be done sometimes several times in 1 hour...sometimes 1 time in 2 hours. But, I usually trade the NQ and YM at the same time as all three tend to track together. More money can be made by raising size but one has to be careful with large size in the night session as it is much slower.

Edited by WHY?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Today thus far I have been able to pull 12.75 points from the market. I am learning more and more with watching the markets and instead of going long, just taking an average of 2-3 points per trade per contract this week but with todays short trading range the average take is 1.75 points per trade.

 

What rules are you using for your setups? Entry, exit, etc.

 

I tend to use pivot points heavily, so I use the average distance between pivot points (for that day) as a guideline for my target setting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the results you are getting are great. Have you traded different market conditions? It's possible to get great results for a period of time if the way you trade happens to coincidentally match market conditions. It can happen that a person gets great results under certain market conditions, then gets killed if the market changes, and you don't adapt.

You didn't mention anything about what you use to make your trading decisions. Do you trade through the news? Have you ever got caught on the wrong side of a trade when price has a flash drop?

How do your results from trading the ES compare to your trading success in the past?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes - You are missing something big and very important part of trading - the emotion side of it. Because you are only paper trading and no real money is at stake, you don't feel the "fear and greed" aspect of it. Start trading few contracts to get the real "feel" of it and see how you go. You'd be surprise its a totally new ball game.

If you can maintain a 10 pts gain a week, you can consider yourself a "professional".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you can maintain a 10 pts gain a week, you can consider yourself a "professional".

 

Points/Pips gained have nothing to do with the success or measure of a system. It all comes back to what you risked to make that gain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nobody is responding... because this is not the question a trader would consider in his trading process.

 

Maybe ambitious is the wrong term and overall wrong question. More along the lines of...what am I missing, if anything? What are costs for items such as charting fee's? How often are your sells/cover's not at the mark you attempted?

 

What rules are you using for your setups? Entry, exit, etc.

 

I tend to use pivot points heavily, so I use the average distance between pivot points (for that day) as a guideline for my target setting.

 

My rule for entry/exit is based on the news and trends, but as of yet are still largely undefined. This is the learning curve and still requires definition, although I quickly learned to make multiple trades based off shorter moves than trying to ride it out with hopes for gains at the end of the trading day. This morning I made a mistake and was stopped out for shorting at 1218.5, with the stop coming at 1220, with a trade based off euro's fall and other news. I am still learning the indicator intricacies though and just need to spend some time getting familiar with them.

 

I've not looked into pivot points as of yet, but certainly will, thank you. :cool:

 

I think the results you are getting are great. Have you traded different market conditions? It's possible to get great results for a period of time if the way you trade happens to coincidentally match market conditions. It can happen that a person gets great results under certain market conditions, then gets killed if the market changes, and you don't adapt.

You didn't mention anything about what you use to make your trading decisions. Do you trade through the news? Have you ever got caught on the wrong side of a trade when price has a flash drop?

How do your results from trading the ES compare to your trading success in the past?

 

I've traded various market conditions in stocks from 00/01 till 08 and was very happy with the results.

 

My decisions are based off news and trends via volume.

 

As far as flash drops, I did learn to always use stop's here as DCA is not as important at this stage due to the trading of just 1 contract per.

 

Yes - You are missing something big and very important part of trading - the emotion side of it. Because you are only paper trading and no real money is at stake, you don't feel the "fear and greed" aspect of it. Start trading few contracts to get the real "feel" of it and see how you go. You'd be surprise its a totally new ball game.

If you can maintain a 10 pts gain a week, you can consider yourself a "professional".

 

I think I've conquered the fear and greed aspect of this from my previous market experience and I am disciplined in my approach. The capital I'll be risking is not a nest egg and can be lost with little to no concern. Yes, it would be a disappointment, but more along the lines of not winning instead of relying on it to be a singular source of income. Perhaps eventually, but once my account goes live in late Feb/early March, it'll just be to dip the toes in the proverbial waters, instead of just taking the temperature of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I've traded various market conditions in stocks from 00/01 till 08 and was very happy with the results.

 

Be careful with 08 statistics, you may wait a long while before seeing volatility like that in the market again. The entire grouping could be classed an outlier and treated as a separate project study for when that event does cycle around again though (which I'm sure it will if we live/trade long enough).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's exactly right. If you trade with no stops or rediculous risk/reward ratios what goes up comes down and what comes down goes up; eventually you win. Drawdown might be so outrageous and margin calls would happen so often that paper trading is actually a joke. Add in commissions and slippage. Perception is not reality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you do not trade at night (market too thin for the number of contracts you might want to get out of), if you ONLY trade the ES-Mini, if you only go through a rapid-fire electronic brokerage (e.g. Tradestation), if you have the fastest computer and internet speed and a backup line (e.g. High Speed Internet and DSL - one might go down), and if you almost always use Limit orders for entry (Market for emergencies only), it should be zero. Max commission round turn for a non-pro should not be more than $4.95. Into your Spreadsheet, you might want to average in your monthly expenses (rent on internet, exchange fees for live feeds, rent on the platform (no fees for Tradestation if you place 10+ trades p.m.), costs to retrieve money from accounts or to send wires etc, and deduct from the daily win/loss. It's a business. It has to be run like one. There are profits, losses and overheads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Crazy busy at work today, was only able to get enough time in to scrape out 4.75 points over 6 trades due to limited exposure to marketplace and me not wanting to get stuck in a losing position time and again. I got stopped out early for a 1.5 point loss. Not bad considering the trading range today.

 

Iris, I've run a successful business before so I understand all the aspects of it and expenses are certainly part of the daily P&L.

 

I see that the Z contract is soon coming closed. Have you moved onto the March '11 contract yet?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In an effort to learn a bit, I placed a trade based on the news that Brian Cowen's budget is set to pass. Bought 1 at 1223.75. I saw last week how positive news created a huge upswing in the pre-dawn hours so this is going to be a hold for me until tomorrow morning. I do see that volume has steadily increased about a hundred contracts every few minutes to as of this writing 60,470, so what would that tell the ES trader? Is it normal?

 

Trying to scour for news, I checked in a few minutes later on the volume and it now at 62618. Price is up to 1224.75.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see that the Z contract is soon coming closed. Have you moved onto the March '11 contract yet?

 

Thursday is when most will start to trade march 2011. Also be careful of where you get your news and fixed stops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't trade the news, so I am not paying for anything. I would just make sure if I did it was the fastest, most reliable news there was. Which would be bloomberg or Thomson/reuters. These are over 17k a year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So this is what you'd be interested in?

 

2nd Resistance Point:1,245.42

1st Resistance Point: 1,239.83

Last Price: 1,234.00

1st Support Level: 1,223.83

2nd Support Level: 1,213.42

 

Volume 336,893

Open Interest 2,805,344

 

I closed my overnight position at 1234.25 and reopened at 1233.75, closed out at same viewing falling prices.

Edited by johnnycakes78704

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stopped today at 11:33 after a 15 point gain today over 4 trades.

 

If you paper traded and had similar results and then went live, what was the difference in your paper trading points vs real points?

 

I've decided to start trading in January instead of waiting until late February/early March. I'll be researching platforms and going with real-time practice accounts for a few weeks on different platforms to see what I like then take the plunge.

 

not those numbers but yes

 

what numbers do you look at?

Edited by johnnycakes78704

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, it seems pretty obvious you're missing, not something, but a lot with respect to thinking your paper trading will emulate anything close to what you will get trading real money. Here's something simple to help you put it into perspective. I want you to keep paper trading and then report back when you have have lost money for at least five days straight. All I've seen you report is winning days. And since you can "game" your paper trading results, most end up doing this deliberately and/or unintentionally. You won't get cut that kind of slack (in fact, you won't get cut ANY slack) when trading live. Once you figure out how to lose paper money, then take another step, a real step. Set a goal of trading live for as long as you can until you have lost $1,000 in real money (consider it the first installment on your tuition because you will be paying it and probably lots more) and then have at it. You'll be humbled by how quick this drawdown happens and then you will begin to understand the gulf between paper and live trading. In the meantime, check out edabreu's post here...a thoroughly insightful post for you to chew on in the meantime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • PTCT PTC Therapeutics stock watch, trending with a pull back to 45.17 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?PTCT
    • APPS Digital Turbine stock, nice rally off the 1.47 triple+ support area, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?APPS
    • Date: 20th December 2024.   BOE Sees More Support For Rate Cuts As USD Strengthens!   The US Dollar continues to rise in value after obtaining further support from positive economic and employment data. However, the hawkish Federal Reserve continues to support the currency. On the other hand, the Great British Pound comes under significant strain. Why is the GBPUSD declining? GBPUSD - Why is the GBPUSD Declining? The GBPUSD is witnessing bullish price movement for three primary reasons. The first is the Federal Reserve’s Monetary Policy, the second is the positive US news releases from yesterday and the third is the votes from the Bank of England’s Monetary Policy Committee.     Even though the Bank of England chose to keep interest rates unchanged at 4.75%, the number of votes to cut indicates dovishness in the upcoming months. Previously, traders were expecting the BoE to remain cautious due to inflation rising to 2.6% and positive employment data. In addition to this, the Retail Sales data from earlier this morning only rose 0.2%, lower than expectations adding pressure to GBP. Investors also should note that the two currencies did not conflict and price action was driven by both an increasing USD and a declining GBP. The US Dollar rose in value against all currencies, except for the Swiss Franc, against which it saw a slight decline. The GBP fell against all currencies, except for the GBPJPY, which ended higher solely due to earlier gains. US Monetary Policy and Macroeconomics The bullish price movement seen within the US Dollar Index continues to partially be due to its hawkish monetary policy. Particularly, indications from Jerome Powell that the Fed will only cut on two occasions and the first cut will take place in May. However, in addition to this the economic data from yesterday continues to illustrate a resilient and growing economy. This also supports the Fed’s approach to monetary policy and its efforts to push inflation back to the 2% target. The US GDP rose 3.1% over the past quarter beating expectations of 2.8%. The GDP rate of 3.1% is also higher than the first two quarters of 2024 (1.4% & 3.0%). In addition to this, the US Weekly Unemployment Claims fell from 242,000 to 220,000 and existing home sales rose to 4.15 million. Home sales in the latest month rose to an 8-month high. For this reason, the US Dollar rose in value against most currencies throughout the day. Analysts believe the US Dollar will continue to perform well due to less frequent rate cuts and tariffs. The US Dollar Index trades 1.65% higher this week. Bank of England Sees Increased Support for Rate Cuts! The Bank of England kept interest rates unchanged as per market’s previous expectations. The decision is determined by a committee of nine members and at least five of them must vote for a cut for the central bank to proceed. Analysts anticipated only two members voting for a cut, but three did. This signals a dovish tone and increases the likelihood of earlier rate cuts in 2025. The three members that voted for a rate cut were Dave Ramsden, Swati Dhingra, and Alan Taylor. Advocates for lower rates believe the current policy is too restrictive and risks pushing inflation well below the 2.0% target in the medium term. Meanwhile, supporters of keeping the current monetary policy argue that it's unclear if rising business costs will increase consumer prices, reduce jobs, or slow wage growth. However, if markets continue to expect a more dovish Bank of England in 2025, the GBP could come under further pressure. In 2024, the GBP was the best performing currency after the US Dollar and outperformed the Euro, Yen and Swiss Franc. This was due to the Bank of England’s reluctance to adjust rates at a similar pace to other central banks. GBPUSD - Technical Analysis In terms of the price of the exchange, most analysts believe the GBPUSD will continue to decline so long as the Federal Reserve retains their hawkish tone. The exchange rate continues to form lower swing lows and lower highs. The price trades below most moving averages on the 2-hour timeframe and below the neutral level on oscillators. On the 5-minute timeframe, the price moves back towards the 200-bar SMA, but sell signals may materialise if the price falls back below 1.24894.     Key Takeaways: The US Dollar increases in value for a third consecutive day and increases its monthly rise to 2.32%. The US Dollar Index was the best performing currency of Thursday’s session, along with the Swiss Franc. US Gross Domestic Product rises to 3.1% beating economist’s expectations of 2.8%. US Weekly Unemployment Claims read 220,000, 22,000 less than the previous week and lower than expectations. The NASDAQ declines further and trades 5.00% lower than the previous lows. The GBPUSD ends the day 0.56% lower and falls more than 1% after the Bank of England’s rate decision. Three Members of the BoE vote to cut interest rates. The GBP was the worst performing currency of the day along with the Japanese Yen. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news. Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 19th December 2024.   Federal Reserve Sparks NASDAQ’s Sharpest Selloff of 2024!   The NASDAQ fell more than 3.60% after the Federal Reserve cut interest rates, but gave hawkish comments. The stock market saw its largest decline witnessed in 2024 so far, as investors opted to cash in profits and not risk in the short-medium term. What did Chairman Powell reveal, and how does it impact the NASDAQ? The NASDAQ Falls To December Lows After Fed Guidance! The NASDAQ and US stock market in general saw a considerable decline after the press conference of the Federal Reserve. The USA100 ended the day 3.60% lower and saw only 1 of its 100 stocks avoid a decline. Of the most influential stocks the worst performers were Tesla (-8.28%), Broadcom (-6.91%) and Amazon (-4.60%).     When monitoring the broader stock market, similar conditions are seen confirming the investor sentiment is significantly lower and not solely related to the tech industry. The worst performing sectors are the housing and banking sectors. However, investors should also note that the decline was partially due to a build-up of profits over the past months. As a result, investors could easily sell and reduce exposure to cash in profits and lower their risk appetite. Analysts note that despite the Federal Reserve's hawkish stance, the Chairman provided a positive outlook. He highlighted optimism for the economy and the employment sector. Therefore, many analysts continue to believe that investors will buy the dip, even if it’s not imminent. A Hawkish Federal Reserve And Powell’s Guidance Even though traditional economics suggests a rate cut benefits the stock market, the market had already priced in the cut. As a result, the rate cut could no longer influence prices. Investors are now focusing on how the Federal Reserve plans to cut in 2025. This is what triggered the selloff and the decline. Investors were looking for indications of 3-4 rate cuts by the Federal Reserve in 2025 and for the first cut to be in March. However, analysts advise that the forward guidance by the Chairman, Jerome Powell, clearly indicates 2 rate adjustments. In addition to this, analysts believe the Fed will now cut next in May 2025. The average expectation now is that the Federal Reserve will cut 0.25% on two occasions in 2025. The Fed also advised that it is too early to know the effect of tariffs and “when the path is uncertain, you go slower”. This added to the hawkish tone of the central bank. However, surveys indicate that 15% of analysts believe the Federal Reserve will be forced into cutting rates at a faster pace. As a result, the US Dollar Index rose 1.25% and Bond Yields to a 7-month high. For investors, this makes other investment categories more attractive and stocks more expensive for foreign investors. However, the average decline the NASDAQ has seen before investors buy the dip is 13% ($19,320). This will also be a key level for investors if the NASDAQ continues to decline. NASDAQ - Technical Analysis Due to the bearish volatility, the price of the NASDAQ is trading below all major Moving Averages and Oscillators on the 2-Hour chart. After retracement the oscillators are no longer indicating an oversold price and continue to point to a bearish bias. Sell indications are likely to strengthen if the price declines below $21,222.60 in the short-term.       Key Takeaways: A hawkish Federal Reserve cut interest rates by 0.25% and indicates only 2 rate cuts in 2025! The stock market witnesses its worst day of 2024 due to the Fed’s hawkish forward guidance. Economists do not expect a rate cut before May 2025. Housing and bank stocks fell more than 4%. Investors are cashing in their gains and not looking to risk while the Fed is unlikely to cut again until May 2025. The US Dollar Index rises close to its highest level since November 2022. US Bond Yields also rise to their highest since May 2024. The NASDAQ’s average decline in 2024 before investors opt to purchase the dip is 13%. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news. Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • SNAP stock at 11.38 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?SNAP
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.