Confused Trader.

[timsingapore 10]

I am determined to be a stocks trader as my life-time career,but recently I am wondering should I go and become a stocks broker to know more about the business of trading.Some of my friends say I should,because they think there's no better way than getting to "ground zero" and understand the stuff which I agree as well. However, from what I know about the job of brokers is they are mainly executing the client's orders and not so much involving trading.I am confused and really don't know would it really help my career.

 

Please advise.

Thank you!

[wwalker126 10]

Hi timsingapore,

 

If you are a stock "broker" than you would have the ability to fill clients orders in hope to make a small percentage either with commissions, fees and or stock price movements. Nevertheless, you could also do personal trading on the side. Nowadays, its not an impossible dream to trade stock personally through online trading accounts (ameritrade, scott trade, etc). I am a firm believer that the best way to learn is through personal experience and as well as the lessons you learn from other's experiences. Whether you go at it alone or decide to take classes and study to be a stock broker; either way you must become a diligent student. It won't be easy and expect to take losses early until you have a well defined enter and exit trading strategy.

 

*Good Luck on your next trade*

[MightyMouse 12]

I am determined to be a stocks trader as my life-time career,but recently I am wondering should I go and become a stocks broker to know more about the business of trading.Some of my friends say I should,because they think there's no better way than getting to "ground zero" and understand the stuff which I agree as well. However, from what I know about the job of brokers is they are mainly executing the client's orders and not so much involving trading.I am confused and really don't know would it really help my career.

 

Please advise.

Thank you!

 

If you become a stock broker, you are 100% in sales. Your manager will likely take your chair away from you if he sees you doing anything other than making phone calls. When you start you have no clients to make trades for so it is call, call call. Maybe in 2-5 years when you have built a book of business and specialized in one area of the other you can think about being allowed to trade your own account, but at that point you will be making far more money as a broker than you likely ever will traing your account.

 

If they do let you trade your account, it's a poorly run office and neither you nor they will survive for long as brokers. If you do not want to sell, do not bother.

 

I have been a broker since 1988.

[Tradewinds 12]

My ex-wife became a broker with Edward Jones. The office failed after 2 years. I agree with Mighty Mouse, that it is all about sales. Being a broker is not necessarily going to make you a good investor or a good trader. Sure, you will have resources available to you, and you will learn a lot about the industry. But you won't learn anything about trading. As a broker, you will need to be able to execute trades, but that won't make you a trader.

To be successful either way you go, you need time and money. 90% to 94% of all traders fail. My opinion is, that you need about 3 years and enough money to get you through those 3 years. It's not that people are not capable of being brokers or traders, but most of them run out of time and money before they reach success.

If you can get a broker to sponsor you, and you pass your licensing test, it might not be a bad experience no matter what happens. If you do become a broker, location is everything. You must be able to integrate with the community and relate to them very closely.

There is a failure rate and a certain amount of risk in anything we do. Do what fits you and what you like doing.

[timsingapore 10]

To Tradewinds,MightyMouse and wwalker126,I really appreciate all the helpful advices. Thanks a lot!!

[wwalker126 10]

I'm glad I was able to give you some insight. Remember to spread the knowledge. An inexperience person will never remove the "i-n" without applying what the basic fundamentals of the experience.

 

*Good luck on your next trade"

[robertm 10]

I am determined to be a stocks trader as my life-time career,but recently I am wondering should I go and become a stocks broker to know more about the business of trading.Some of my friends say I should,because they think there's no better way than getting to "ground zero" and understand the stuff which I agree as well. However, from what I know about the job of brokers is they are mainly executing the client's orders and not so much involving trading.I am confused and really don't know would it really help my career.

 

Please advise.

Thank you!

 

I think every trader has this thought at some stage Tim, I know I put the same question to my mentor many years back (he's a former broker, stupid idea he said), but finding a less stressful source of income that lets you be free to trade when you want, and how you want, while paying the bills so your account can compound without you drawing it down, is the best solution.

 

Just stick at it, gaining experience in different market conditions is one of the keys, and only time can open that door for you.

[Snow Dog 10]

If you're going to trade stocks then I'd suggest you get real good at trading vsa set ups. Volume spread analysis, theres also good info on this from e-mini trading, you'll have to search as its a pay product (well some stuff is free) and I can't advertise it here.

 

Anyway the point is get good at volume and candle analysis.

[robertm 10]

If you're going to trade stocks then I'd suggest you get real good at trading vsa set ups. Volume spread analysis, theres also good info on this from e-mini trading, you'll have to search as its a pay product (well some stuff is free) and I can't advertise it here.

 

Anyway the point is get good at volume and candle analysis.

 

VSA, like most other indicators, is more useful as a marketing gimmick by those who can't turn a $ with their own account to rope in unsuspecting wanna be traders than anything else. But nice try...

[Snow Dog 10]

VSA, like most other indicators, is more useful as a marketing gimmick by those who can't turn a $ with their own account to rope in unsuspecting wanna be traders than anything else. But nice try...

 

Couldn't disagree with you more strongly. I'm not suggesting pay for a thing.

 

Go and search Malcolmb (unfortunately at another website) to see how you can get great vsa info for free. Go argue with him whether VSA is any good or not I won't waste my time.

 

In stocks as the markets are centralised vsa gives great info and will help you analyse candles much better.

 

Bottom line to the person asking the original question, volume gives you hints to what the pros are doing and theres loads of info for free.

 

Nice try ??????????? Not trying a thing.

[robertm 10]

Couldn't disagree with you more strongly. I'm not suggesting pay for a thing.

 

Go and search Malcolmb (unfortunately at another website) to see how you can get great vsa info for free. Go argue with him whether VSA is any good or not I won't waste my time.

 

In stocks as the markets are centralised vsa gives great info and will help you analyse candles much better.

 

Bottom line to the person asking the original question, volume gives you hints to what the pros are doing and theres loads of info for free.

 

Nice try ??????????? Not trying a thing.

 

Volume has it's place, and I agree it is probably most useful in Equities trading, but it's well down the check list of what makes a system a winner.

[Snow Dog 10]

Volume has it's place, and I agree it is probably most useful in Equities trading, but it's well down the check list of what makes a system a winner.

 

In your humble opinion.

 

In my humble opinion for stocks its high on the check list of what makes a winning system.

[robertm 10]

In your humble opinion.

 

In my humble opinion for stocks its high on the check list of what makes a winning system.

 

My check list is pretty short.

[Snow Dog 10]

My check list is pretty short.

 

I'll admit to having lost interest in our nice little chat but as a final contribution to the debate.

 

3 point checklist of vsa traders to trade stocks and yes fx:

 

VSA.

VSA.

VSA.

 

Obviously others disagree as is their right.

[WorldTrader 10]

I never wanted to be a stock broker, but now enjoy trading full time. I trade some stocks with my indicators, but mostly the futures markets. If I had more time, I would look at stocks more, but I am making enough money with Futures. Then there is the whole, why trade the stocks when you can make a higher percentage return trading the options.

 

So, my next quest is to learn all about Weekly Options. My Son has a professor that is making a lot of money on APPL Weekly Options, from what he tells his students. Maybe I will start another thread.

[robertm 10]

Weekly is very cool. Minimal effort, absorbs most of the noise. Great returns if you ride the trend all the way. CFD's or LEAPS keep your capital free to trade your futures etc on the side.

[timsingapore 10]

I'm glad I was able to give you some insight. Remember to spread the knowledge. An inexperience person will never remove the "i-n" without applying what the basic fundamentals of the experience.

 

*Good luck on your next trade"

 

Absolutely agreed,hope i can be good enough and share some of my insight to other traders like you guys did some day.

[BlowFish 10]

 

Go and search Malcolmb (unfortunately at another website) to see how you can get great vsa info for free.

 

 

 

No need to go that far. There are three VSA threads here running into many thousand posts on the topic. The threads are dormant now but amongst the mire there are some pearls.

 

Stear clear of tradeguider and all there over priced product and it costs nothing though investing the $50 odd bucks in the original book won't break the bank.

[HighStakes 10]

I also thought I wanted to be a stock broker at a certain point, but that was before I found out that a broker is basically a seller.

 

Watch Wall Street Warriors and you will quickly see the difference between traders and brokers.

 

Anyway, you will probably need a job while you learn the ropes, so working in the industry as a broker until you can make it as a trader (if you ever do, it`s hard) is not a bad idea if you like that type of work.

[robertm 10]

No need to go that far. There are three VSA threads here running into many thousand posts on the topic. The threads are dormant now but amongst the mire there are some pearls.

 

Stear clear of tradeguider and all there over priced product and it costs nothing though investing the $50 odd bucks in the original book won't break the bank.

 

I've often wondered if some of those massively long threads on certain topics mean that whatever they are trying to do is far too complex, and so "open for interpretation", that by the time it works for them, they are actually doing something else anyway which is the real reason they are making money. "You know that indicator only ever works if you do X & Y first, then it's brilliant" :rofl:

[BlowFish 10]

A very valid point. Denise Schull (trading psychology woman) said somewhere early in her material that if you can't write down an outline of each of your strategies in 2 or 3 sentences they are probably too complex. I am not sure I would go quite that far but I am inclined to agree.

 

VSA is actually reasonably straightforward though there are maybe 8 or 9 'principles'. (Tradeguider has somehow simplified that into 450 or so 'indicators').

 

The original book was poorly written and had a number of errata, though they where kind of obvious if you spent a bit of time with it. Not only that, even way back when it was little known, it attracted charlatans (one is described in detail at the start of another trading psychology book by Mike Elvin).

 

Fast forward to now and you have the TG circus, you have to credit their marketing which has raises the profile of VSA enormously however to keep feeding the beast they need to keep selling software and education. To do that it is in their interest to maintain some mystique and complexity whilst offering to dispel that (if you pay).

 

Anyway going back to the threads, a lot of the posts where people looking for 'the secret', and of course being a forum there where plenty of 'experts' to oblige (though as often the case it was the blind leading the blind). A large part was simply people posting charts and analysis and discussion, again that's often the meat and potato of massive threads (and nothing wrong with that). As usual the real gems get buried amongst the general chatter and outright BS. Having said that those gems are there and an astute reader would learn who to pay attention to quite quickly. (There was also odd bits of drama that where quite entertaining!)

[robertm 10]

Having said that those gems are there and an astute reader would learn who to pay attention to quite quickly.

 

I have observed from my own journey that our astuteness at decoding trader talk increases exponentially according to our experience over time though

[Tradewinds 12]

I just ran across something interesting, practice exams for being licensed as a broker.

 

http://www.investopedia.com/professionals/

[friva 10]

Hi "Confused Trader".

 

I have been a stockbroker for twenty years and the advantage of being so, form a trading perspective, is that you are kind of paid to watch the market action and act on it. That's a good training provided that you pay attention to the action (I know many brokers that never did that and know nothing about trading). You can also learn something from interaction with the clients, if they are bright and successful in their trading. The bottom line is that anything that puts you in contact with the market on a continuous basis will be good for you if you are willing to learn.

 

Hope this helps

Best

F

 

PS: you are not a "confused trader", you are a "trader with a question". Never ever under-rate you. Never ever over-rate you.