Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

maxr

US FX Traders Must Repatriate Funds - Consequences?

Recommended Posts

Hi: I watched in interesting webinar last night on the forthcoming US FX changes, which as I understand them correctly, are:

 

* US traders with spot FX accounts outside USA must repatriate their accounts by 18th October.

* US FX brokers will stop allowing their clients to hedge - i.e. you will no longer be able to have opposing positions in the same pair.

* FIFO order sequencing will be put in place.

*Introducing brokers must be registered.

*Leverage changes - discussed in another thread, so lets leave that.

 

Apparently, banks providing spot FX trading acccounts are not affected by this legislation, and CitiBank has an account called FxPro which appears designed to allow clients to do many of the things the legislation sets out to stop - with a $250K guarantee.

 

What changes do you see resulting from this - do you think traders will move to bank run trading accounts like the Citi offering, do you think some traders will move to Futures instead of spot FX (as I understand it, US traders can still trade Futures offshore), and will these changes affect you personally?

 

Max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They've archived it at:

 

TradersChoiceFX - Newstrading Webinar Recording

 

Just want to make it clear that I have no relations with http://www.traderschoicefx.com who are an introducing broker, and that they obviously have their own agenda in providing this webinar (ie to sign up FX traders to their services) - however it's quite informative. Seems to be an issue with sound for the first minute or so, should be OK after that, click on the icon for full screen or it plays in a tiny window on the web page that opens from this link.

 

Max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Iversonne - do you mean you can't get that link to work? The video plays automatically, I've just checked it - but they do seem to have a problem with the sound up to about 1 min 35 seconds.

 

If you're saying funds will not have to be repatriated or it can't be done, then have a look at the info on the CFTC website http://www.ctft.gov, here's the FAQ on the new 'Final Retail Foreigh Exchange Rule'.

 

http://www.cftc.gov/ucm/groups/public/@newsroom/documents/file/forexfinalrule_qa.pdf

 

Here's a link to a page on another site with a copy of a letter sent out to forex.com clients telling them what will happen to their accounts:

 

http://www.forexhedgingstrategy.net/meta-trader-repatriation-part-two.html

 

Max

Edited by maxr
correct inaccurate links

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Maxr and others for your info. Very helpful. Further research indicates that you can still trade fx futures without your foreign account being repatriated, or, find a foreign dealing desk and platform that does not have a US connection of affiliate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  sptraderrlc said:
Further research indicates that you can still trade fx futures without your foreign account being repatriated...

 

That's interesting, how do you do that - trade FX with an offshore (from USA) bank?

 

  sptraderrlc said:
...or, find a foreign dealing desk and platform that does not have a US connection of affiliate.

 

I wonder how easy it is to find a big, well capitalised, well regulated FX broker outside USA with some sort of account guarantee, which isn't either are an offshoot of or affiliated to US brokers.

 

Max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to the new Barney Frank-Christopher Dodd tax on the trader law, the FX futures market is NOT included in this law, only the spot currency pairs trading. You can still trade the FX futures off shore.

 

I am talking with a couple of contacts off shore that operate dealing desks that claim their lawyers have found a loophole for US residents to trade spot fx off shore. I guess we'll see. I'll post when I find out. Can't say where it is right now.

 

I presume their would be some additional risk with off shore trading. I always keep a minimum account to trade there so if they do go south, it won't hurt so much. I withdraw consistant profits to keep it small enough to handle, should it happen.

 

Thanks for responding to all of this. Nice to have folks to talk with around the globe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a lot of banks and brokers ie in the EUR zone, who offer FX trading. Having no relations with any of them, because I'm non US resident and trading in the US, you may have a look at

 

Forex Broker im Vergleich auf Broker-Test.de

Forex Trading Online | Trade FX, CFDs, FX Options at Saxo Bank

Online forex trading with leading online forex broker Tadawul FX

 

and there are many others too.

 

josch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As sptraderric says above, FX futures appear not to be covered by this legislation. Perhaps that will give a boost to the FX futures market liquidity - does anyone know why the electronic CME FX futures have to close for an hour per day? It would be more convenient if they didn't.

 

For those who may be thinking of opening accounts to start FX trading and aren't up to speed with the changes, here's a quick summary by an introducing broker (usual disclaimer - I have no connection with this firm and I'm not recommending their services):

 

http://www.traderschoicefx.com/broker-newsletter/newsletter5.html

 

Max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  maxr said:
As sptraderric says above, FX futures appear not to be covered by this legislation. Perhaps that will give a boost to the FX futures market liquidity - does anyone know why the electronic CME FX futures have to close for an hour per day? It would be more convenient if they didn't.

 

I believe they close 15 minutes at least that's how it is with ES.

 

And the close is after the US stock market close so it's not a period of high liquidity anyway.

 

I much prefer futures for scalping. But for swing trading the futures are too leveraged. So that's where forex can be very nice. One can start risking $1 and slowly work their way up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  cunparis said:
I believe they close 15 minutes at least that's how it is with ES.

 

CME Globex futures (ie 6B GBPUSD etc) are different from ES, here's the contract spec market hours:

'Sundays: 5:00 p.m. – 4:00 p.m. Central Time (CT) next day. Monday – Friday: 5:00 p.m. – 4:00 p.m. CT the next day, except on Friday - closes at 4:00 p.m. and reopens Sunday at 5:00 p.m. CT.'

 

i.e. shut 4-5pm CT Mon-Fri and 4pm Fri-11pm Sun CT. As you say, not a high liquidity period, but long enough for the occasional significant gap.

 

  cunparis said:
for swing trading the futures are too leveraged...

 

CME do e-mini JPYUSD and EURUSD and E-micros on the major pairs, but the e-minis aren't very liquid and the E-micros don't seem to have caught on at all.

 

Max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you can trade as a US Person FX spot, but only with brokers that do not have a US division. So, if they are not regulated by the US in any way, they don't need to repatriate. Keep me posted on what you find out for a good overseas FX broker..sptraderric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I noticed IB's HK site now has a big warning that opening an account with the HK office means falling under US Laws. I asked a rep about it, he didn't even reply, they must be losing large numbers offshore now.

 

There are plenty of Non-US based brokers in Europe you could hunt around though. My rep at a US futures broker I sometime use was trying to get me to swing my FX trading over to them, I bought up they US based broker question, they said they could just swing it via another country instead. Thankfully I'm not a US resident though, the tax laws are out of control. On one hand they do things like this, while freely allowing manipulation of the tax system at other levels (fancy making your board meeting a 3 day boat cruise? or tax deductible dinners and opera tickets? all easy done within the US tax system).

 

The issue with spot FX is it can be used to funnel funds from any point in the globe to any other point and avoid/reduce tax and detection in the process. Thus this could be a result of anti terror laws or some such thing and not just tax related. The land of the free!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm researching UK FX accounts myself (I'm a UK citizen based in UK), so I just phoned IB's UK sales office to see if there are any changes to their UK operation - voicemail on all 3 lines.

 

Why is overseas US retail FX such an issue when Futures and Stock trading appears not to be - is it much bigger?

 

Off topic, we Brits were used to feeling overtaxed, but with a 28% Capital Gains Tax rate (over a £10,000 annual tax free allowance), plus tax free financial Spread Betting (if you can find a broker who allows you to make any money), I don't think we do too badly at the moment.

 

Max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  maxr said:

 

Off topic, we Brits were used to feeling overtaxed, but with a 28% Capital Gains Tax rate (over a £10,000 annual tax free allowance), plus tax free financial Spread Betting (if you can find a broker who allows you to make any money), I don't think we do too badly at the moment.

 

Max

 

clearly you are not part of the mass exodus of hedge funds leaving due to the high taxes ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think l'll worry about paying tax when I'm making so much money I don't need to worry about it :haha:

 

I got seriously off topic there, anyone care to get us back on it?

 

Max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

www.finfx.fl is a broker based in Finland, which is an EU member, so should have whatever client guarantees EU membership provides. They do normal accounts and ECN style accounts via Integral from US$2500. NO, I'd never heard of them, but they appear to be advertising specifically to attract US clients, because they list the things you guys can no longer do with a US broker, but can with them, on their front page.

 

Max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its great sharing i was really looking for this,this is my first time to visit this forum and i really find it very very help full and informative, thank you sir to share the information with us and i hope that you will keep it up and will share more infomration as like this

 

URL Removed by Moderator

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Thx for reminding us... I don't bang that drum often enough anymore Another part for consideration is who that money initially went to...
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • How long does it take to receive HFM's withdrawal via Skrill? less than 24H?
    • My wife Robin just wanted some groceries.   Simple enough.   She parked the car for fifteen minutes, and returned to find a huge scratch on the side.   Someone keyed her car.   To be clear, this isn’t just any car.   It’s a Cybertruck—Elon Musk's stainless-steel spaceship on wheels. She bought it back in 2021, before Musk became everyone's favorite villain or savior.   Someone saw it parked in a grocery lot and felt compelled to carve their hatred directly into the metal.   That's what happens when you stand out.   Nobody keys a beige minivan.   When you're polarizing, you're impossible to ignore. But the irony is: the more attention something has, the harder it is to find the truth about it.   What’s Elon Musk really thinking? What are his plans? What will happen with DOGE? Is he deserving of all of this adoration and hate? Hard to say.   Ideas work the same way.   Take tariffs, for example.   Tariffs have become the Cybertrucks of economic policy. People either love them or hate them. Even if they don’t understand what they are and how they work. (Most don’t.)   That’s why, in my latest podcast (link below), I wanted to explore the “in-between” truth about tariffs.   And like Cybertrucks, I guess my thoughts on tariffs are polarizing.   Greg Gutfield mentioned me on Fox News. Harvard professors hate me now. (I wonder if they also key Cybertrucks?)   But before I show you what I think about tariffs… I have to mention something.   We’re Headed to Austin, Texas This weekend, my team and I are headed to Austin. By now, you should probably know why.   Yes, SXSW is happening. But my team and I are doing something I think is even better.   We’re putting on a FREE event on “Tech’s Turning Point.”   AI, quantum, biotech, crypto, and more—it’s all on the table.   Just now, we posted a special webpage with the agenda.   Click here to check it out and add it to your calendar.   The Truth About Tariffs People love to panic about tariffs causing inflation.   They wave around the ghost of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff from the Great Depression like it’s Exhibit A proving tariffs equal economic collapse.   But let me pop this myth:   Tariffs don’t cause inflation. And no, I'm not crazy (despite what angry professors from Harvard or Stanford might tweet at me).   Here's the deal.   Inflation isn’t when just a couple of things become pricier. It’s when your entire shopping basket—eggs, shirts, Netflix subscriptions, bananas, everything—starts costing more because your money’s worth less.   Inflation means your dollars aren’t stretching as far as they used to.   Take the 1800s.   For nearly a century, 97% of America’s revenue came from tariffs. Income tax? Didn’t exist. And guess what inflation was? Basically zero. Maybe 1% a year.   The economy was booming, and tariffs funded nearly everything. So, why do people suddenly think tariffs cause inflation today?   Tariffs are taxes on imports, yes, but prices are set by supply and demand—not tariffs.   Let me give you a simple example.   Imagine fancy potato chips from Canada cost $10, and a 20% tariff pushes that to $12. Everyone panics—prices rose! Inflation!   Nope.   If I only have $100 to spend and the price of my favorite chips goes up, I either stop buying chips or I buy, say, fewer newspapers.   If everyone stops buying newspapers because they’re overspending on chips, newspapers lower their prices or go out of business.   Overall spending stays the same, and inflation doesn’t budge.   Three quick scenarios:   We buy pricier chips, but fewer other things: Inflation unchanged. Manufacturers shift to the U.S. to avoid tariffs: Inflation unchanged (and more jobs here). We stop buying fancy chips: Prices drop again. Inflation? Still unchanged. The only thing that actually causes inflation is printing money.   Between 2020 and 2022 alone, 40% of all money ever created in history appeared overnight.   That’s why inflation shot up afterward—not because of tariffs.   Back to tariffs today.   Still No Inflation Unlike the infamous Smoot-Hawley blanket tariff (imagine Oprah handing out tariffs: "You get a tariff, and you get a tariff!"), today's tariffs are strategic.   Trump slapped tariffs on chips from Taiwan because we shouldn’t rely on a single foreign supplier for vital tech components—especially if that supplier might get invaded.   Now Taiwan Semiconductor is investing $100 billion in American manufacturing.   Strategic win, no inflation.   Then there’s Canada and Mexico—our friendly neighbors with weirdly huge tariffs on things like milk and butter (299% tariff on butter—really, Canada?).   Trump’s not blanketing everything with tariffs; he’s pressuring trade partners to lower theirs.   If they do, everybody wins. If they don’t, well, then we have a strategic trade chess game—but still no inflation.   In short, tariffs are about strategy, security, and fairness—not inflation.   Yes, blanket tariffs from the Great Depression era were dumb. Obviously. Today's targeted tariffs? Smart.   Listen to the whole podcast to hear why I think this.   And by the way, if you see a Cybertruck, don’t key it. Robin doesn’t care about your politics; she just likes her weird truck.   Maybe read a good book, relax, and leave cars alone.   (And yes, nobody keys Volkswagens, even though they were basically created by Hitler. Strange world we live in.) Source: https://altucherconfidential.com/posts/the-truth-about-tariffs-busting-the-inflation-myth    Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/       
    • No, not if you are comparing apples to apples. What we call “poor” is obviously a pretty high bar but if you’re talking about like a total homeless shambling skexie in like San Fran then, no. The U.S.A. in not particularly kind to you. It is not an abuse so much as it is a sad relatively minor consequence of our optimism and industriousness.   What you consider rich changes with circumstances obviously. If you are genuinely poor in the U.S.A., you experience a quirky hodgepodge of unhelpful and/or abstract extreme lavishnesses while also being alienated from your social support network. It’s about the same as being a refugee. For a fraction of the ‘kindness’ available to you in non bio-available form, you could have simply stayed closer to your people and been MUCH better off.   It’s just a quirk of how we run the place and our values; we are more worried about interfering with people’s liberty and natural inclination to do for themselves than we are about no bums left behind. It is a slightly hurtful position and we know it; we are just scared to death of socialism cancer and we’re willing to put our money where our mouth is.   So, if you’re a bum; you got 5G, the ER will spend like $1,000,000 on you over a hangnail but then kick you out as soon as you’re “stabilized”, the logistics are surpremely efficient, you have total unchecked freedom of speech, real-estate, motels, and jobs are all natural healthy markets in perfect competition, you got compulsory three ‘R’’s, your military owns the sky, sea, space, night, information-space, and has the best hairdos, you can fill out paper and get all the stuff up to and including a Ph.D. Pretty much everything a very generous, eager, flawless go-getter with five minutes to spare would think you might need.   It’s worse. Our whole society is competitive and we do NOT value or make any kumbaya exception. The last kumbaya types we had werr the Shakers and they literally went extinct. Pueblo peoples are still around but they kind of don’t count since they were here before us. So basically, if you’re poor in the U.S.A., you are automatically a loser and a deadbeat too. You will be treated as such by anybody not specifically either paid to deal with you or shysters selling bejesus, Amway, and drugs. Plus, it ain’t safe out there. Not everybody uses muhfreedoms to lift their truck, people be thugging and bums are very vulnerable here. The history of a large mobile workforce means nobody has a village to go home to. Source: https://askdaddy.quora.com/Are-the-poor-people-in-the-United-States-the-richest-poor-people-in-the-world-6   Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/ 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.