Full Time Traders: Are You Happy with Your Profession?

[HighStakes 10]

Hello traders,

 

I am curious as to how those of you who are trading full-time experience your lifestyle.

 

When I first started pursuing day trading for a living two years ago, I had no doubt that trading potentially was the ultimate lifestyle and there was nothing else in the world I would rather do. Even though I had prior experience and success as a swing trader, I was rather clueless as to what I had embarked upon due to a general lack of knowledge.

 

More than two years later and much of my time spent running in circles, I am finally seeing the end of the tunnel. I have been feeling a little burned out and poorly motivated to pursue my dream lately, but considering all the effort I have put down this far I really don`t see myself stopping now either. Actually, I got motivated writing this post Hopefully, my upcoming vacation will recharge my batteries.

 

My plan is to go live in September if things go as planned, but as always there is a trade-off and I will have to take risks that not only affect my financial life, but also my social life.

 

It would be interesting to hear the experiences from guys who actually made it and are living the dream (hopefully).

 

One of my concerns with this profession is the social isolation. Even though I have worked alone for thousands of hours in the past and managed just fine, I`m not sure if that is what I want for the remainder of my life, but there are of course ways to balance that.

 

Sorry if I`m rambling and thanks in advance for any valuable views

 

Best regards,

 

HighStakes

[MadMarketScientist 11]

HighStakes

 

This is a fascinating topic.

 

I could go in many different directions in a reply. I'll try to keep it brief.

 

You mention vacation -- if I can name one thing that is essential at least to me it is to get away from trading on a regular basis. It means missing some days or even a week or two then fine. The most difficult part is no matter how successful you are, you are going to be wrong on a regular basis. It can wear you down. And, you'll feel the pressure when you are in the midst of a drawdown -- until you recover and it seems like the whole cycle will ultimately start again.

 

It's a great profession, how many can you name where you can double or triple your profit potential by changing a number under lot size? Not many. However, taking regular breaks I think is essential and don't worry about missing trades/opportunities.

 

In addition, stay involved in a trading community like here on TL. Even just to have a place to talk, vent, chat, share -- it really does help since it's such a solitary profession.

[SIUYA 11]

topical issue for me at present as I am contemplating a life change away from trading as opposed to many who move toward it, so this might be a bit of a personal rant, and opposite for many others.

Most successful traders I know have a nice lifestyle but they dont necessarily trade for the lifestyle it affords, they trade for the work challenge it brings (the work style if you like).

 

I for one hate the social isolation. Even though I maintain a healthy social network separately its the sitting alone while working that does my head in, mainly as its not a job that requires continuous work/concentration. Rather it requires continuous monitoring and focus on the plan. I also dont wish to sit in a trading room with others I dont know....this does not work for me.

While I am doing more day trading at the moment, I find that this has its advantages (you can just switch off, go away, have flexibility) and disadvantages (you have to focus and monitor closely throughout the day, its addictive, requires constant discipline).... I find this type of trading when its done full time is more socially isolating than longer term or swing trading.

 

Am I happy with the profession? Both yes and no. After 19 years in the finance industry, 17 years constantly trading (always very conservatively), sometimes you just want to do something different all together that gets you out of bed in the morning. Even when winning there is often no excitement there. Which can be good and bad.

However, I love the markets, I love the constant motion of the markets, the changes etc;

I have had a few periods of taking 6 months off, and constantly travel, but I always come back to it.

I have been seriously thinking about getting into something completely different outside of finance, but I know its not for me. I like work no matter what it is, so long hours etc dont worry me, I will work until I drop. But I also know that I like to deal with people, and for me its sometimes more I enjoy the problem solving rather than anything else....(potentially an issue when it comes to trading as you wish to want to be right rather than anything else)

 

i know a few things that work for me....

1) good trading habits are like riding a bike, once learnt are not forgotten - its the application that is important. So you can always go back to it.

2) I dont want to sit in front of a computer screen trading by myself for the rest of my life, as there are other things to do....mid life crisis?

3) there is more in life than money (easy to say as I have some) but more importantly there are other ways to make money rather than trading.

4) sometimes, you need to sit back and see the forest and not just the trees.

5) if I cant be bothered getting out of bed in the morning, then its time to change....boredom rather than burnout is an issue.

[electroniclocal 10]

Guys and Gals, this is the best life in the world.

 

Trade when and where you like. Help all your family and others. What can be better.

 

One thing I would strongly recommend: Find a hobby or pastime that takes you away from the markets regularly, such as 1 day a week, a few days a month, a couple of months a year.

 

Lately, I have been cutting my trading hours per day down and increasing size as I'm preparing to deliver a training. I plan on keeping this up even after thje training is completed.

 

When I was on the floor, I learned to do the same. Don't think about the cost of missed earnings, it's just a cost of doing business.

[brownsfan019 17]

What's not to love about it - sit in your pajamas all day at the ATM machine, right?

 

 

In all seriousness, the seclusion can get to people and I would agree. Developing a group, even if 1 other person, to chat with / bounce ideas off of is important IMO. The seclusion has to be the worst part of this business.

[MadMarketScientist 11]

Fantastic stuff.

 

I always love coming on here and absorbing what you guys are saying. Very thought provoking.

 

There does seem to be a message coming through here. Yeah, it is a great profession but you better have more. You need to an outlet, you need some social networks, you need to take a break.

 

Personally I go freakin nuts unless I workout a few times a week. It amazes me when I'm in a totally crappy mood about my trading and I go work with a trainer or do hard cardio session and everything seems like it's going to be alright after - I'm totally rejuvenated.

 

And, let's face it, sometimes when you are going through something challenge the grass does indeed appear greener but once you immerse yourself in this something new you could very well miss all the advantages trading provides.

 

If all else fails and it's just a mid-life crisis then there's always a convertible, a bimbo and the hair club for men (since you pulled it all out trading.)

 

In all seriousness, dive in, if you burnout take the time you need and once recharged you'll likely be chomping at the bit to get back in. Gotta feed the addiction

[SIUYA 11]

Pjs, no way.

Nude trading is the way to go. It really exposes you to the naked truth!

[bacchus85 10]

Hi,

 

I've been trading at home on my account as a living for the past three years now. For what it's worth, some of my feelings on the experience so far are:

 

It's a really nice way to earn a living if indepedence, freedom and personal control over your life are important to you. It's not so good if security and a stable income are what you need. Also, depending on your psyche, it can be pretty stressful at times, especially maintaining discipline and confidence in difficult patches.

 

As for social isolation, yes, it can be an issue depending on your circumstances and your personality. However, there are lots of ways of arranging your life to include whatever social interaction you need.

 

If you want to go full-time trading for a living you must be absolutely determined and committed, and expect it to take a lot longer, be harder and more stressful than you ever imagined. Don't kid yourself, it's one of the harder ways of earning a living, you really do earn the lifestyle benefits it brings.

 

Best of luck!

[edabreu 10]

This is an amazing and very rewarding profession. Once you have your trading routine, and just trade according to plan, tediousness can set in.

However, if you can find yourself a trading buddy or friends to trade together, then it helps a lot.

Also, get away from the screen. Either trade to a goal or trade a set time period, and get out and spend some of the money. Two things come out of that - you will want to trade to make more, and you will feel really good about helping out your family and friends.

[ptcman 10]

Great messages were written in here.

 

I'm not a full time trading, but I'm preparing to be by the end of this year.

 

For the last 10 years I've been a swing trader, with a very volatile (i.e.. irregular) track record.

Depending of my job schedule, I can follow the market on a regular basis or just spent a couple of weeks without looking at it.

 

Since my boss decided do close the company and retire, I decided that the time to become a full time trader arrived, and switch to daytrade, something that when possible, I've been doing, with relative success, since I need to do some modifications on my trading system.

 

But, the 1 million dollar question is this, Am I able to survive this new endeavour in my life (financially speaking, of course)?

I'm giving myself one year to become self sufficient in the markets. I believe this is the sufficient time for a person to know if he (or she) was built for this craft.

 

Regarding the inherent seclusion that this job forces to, I'm a loner by nature, so I don't think I'm going to be affected by it, although I feel that from time to time, I need some human contact

[StockTrader6080 10]

This is an amazing and very rewarding profession. Once you have your trading routine, and just trade according to plan, tediousness can set in.

However, if you can find yourself a trading buddy or friends to trade together, then it helps a lot.

Also, get away from the screen. Either trade to a goal or trade a set time period, and get out and spend some of the money. Two things come out of that - you will want to trade to make more, and you will feel really good about helping out your family and friends.

 

I agree totally with your comments. Developing strategies in isolation can get stale. I've joined multiple boards to work with others on strategies so I have built systems/strategies that work for me, without having to reinvent the wheel. I don't sit in front of the screens anymore since I have gone 100% automated. My 6 computers trade my accounts exactly as I would only without the emotion. Etrade just put out a press release announcing they are working with cooltrade now, so they too are joining the automated trading or robotic trading revolution. I know a guy who sits in front of 6 monitors all day and makes buy/sell decisions by watching the charts. He says his trading strategy is too complex to automate but I watch him trade sometimes and it seems he's only looking at a small subset of the things the computer is capable of watching on its own. Nowadays I just watch the screens to see what my traders are doing and I'm at ease regardless of what the market is doing.

 

Keith

[Granpa74 10]

As most traders know the old saying (K.I.S.S) applies to all aspects of life. If you are trading and doing well, you will find your self to be alone alot. Most times having to many people chatting and over thinking the trades leads to trading errors.

 

I like the one comment about separating from trading during the day/week or month. if you cant get away from trading, you are giving up the reason most people trade FREEDOM.

 

I love trading, been living off the e-minis for 3 years now. Wouldnt change this life for the world! but, you will get outta trading what you put into it. Focus on making it to the next trading day, sustained profits and most importantly maintain your mental state during losing periods.

 

Make sure you pay your self in money and time. I take 10days off ever Qtr and come first week in December i shut down computer and head to caribbean untill after new years.

 

Hope this helps you, good luck!

[bathrobe 10]

Do not underestimate the loneliness, depending on where you live you can (I do) have a long time from when you finish to when the rest of the world finishes working. I have probably seen nearly every movie ever made however!

 

I would not trade careers with anybody though. After you are consistently profitable you make much more working way less.

 

EDIT

 

I should add that I am not married and I don't live with my girlfriend, so that adds to it I am sure

Edited July 3, 2010 by bathrobe

[HighStakes 10]

Thank you all for your replies.

 

The common denominator here seems to be complaints regarding the social isolation. Fortunately, I am a loner and I do not need to be around a lot of people. However, there is a big difference between being just around just a few people or meeting and seeing people during your commute and actually not having to leave the house for the whole day

 

Still, I think I will give this a shot. The rewards are high and if I have not succeeded by the time I`m 30 (26 now), it`s still not too late to get a formal education.

 

I earned $1700 trading a single contract of CL today and that alone reminded me of why I got into trading in the first place

 

If I actually become a successful trader, I could rent myself office space somewhere. That alone should help tremendously with the social isolation even though I still will not be working directly with other people.

[MadMarketScientist 11]

HighStakes

 

Congratulations on your decision (and success today) -- I think you got a lot of really amazing advice and feedback on this thread since you asked your question.

 

Just be sure to stay involved in the conversation on the forum. It will keep you interacting and it just might inspire that one big idea that is a breakthrough for your trading. Not to mention it's a good place to come when you need to reconcile any challenging days.

 

Best of success to you!

[1pipatatime 10]

Hi All,

 

Have not been around for awhile but the heading of this thread caught my attention.

 

I have been living off my trading for the past 15-17 years and would not have it any other way, the freedom that trading provides is fantastic. I think I retired from the working life at 28 so yeah I'm an old fart now.

 

The isolation that people have mentioned is true, when I first started trading and especially when I first retired I traded so much that I forgot how to speak to people, if they didn't have a screen and a mouse what were they doing infront of me, whats that noise they are making, don't they know the only way to communicate is with trendlines, indicators and such.

 

Thank god for friends, I woke up to myself when a friend knocked on my door and asked to speak to the vampire living there, since I only came out at night to obtain food.

 

These day's mylife style is totally great I only trade for a few hours a month (unless I'm playing a game with a few mates) to obtain my income to support my life style.

 

Trading IMO is all about learning how you either react or respond to the market and I find responding to the market works alot better than reacting.

 

What helped me with my life was when I came across a list of questions which I applied to trading and all area's of my life.

 

What do I have to let go of to move forward with my trading?

What do I have to take on to have this endeavor become successful?

What are my strengths as a trader?

What are my weaknesses as a trader?

What worked with the trade?

What didn't work with the trade?

What can I do to strengthen my trading system?

Who am I being around my trading?

What is the diference btw an elite trader and me? (then dealing with those difference's)

 

With other area's of my life I just replaced the word trader with whatever else it was.

 

To combat the isolation I just taught my friends to trade like me so they could enjoy the life style that I have and we also trade together at least once a week.

 

Trading IMO is the best, it beats having a job, but it is also not for everyone just those who are willing to go the extra mile.

 

Enjoy the game

 

1pipatatime

[HighStakes 10]

MadMarketScientist,

 

Thank you! I agree

 

1pipatatime,

 

Those questions seems very useful.

 

Thank you for your insights!

 

Regards,

 

HighStakes

[Justaguy 10]

What a great question. I echo many of the comments here. I'm happy with what I do. It has allowed me to stay home and raise my daughter. It has allowed me to pursue other interests as well. The most difficult thing is...the bucks stops with you. Working for someone else, there are filters. Other people. Trading for your bread and butter brings on a whole new bundle of responsibility. One huge one is immense focus. One mistake can have you in a trade that you should not be in or out of one you should be riding. What other business can the psychological factor drain your account in a matter of moments? None that I am aware of.

 

The social isolation aspect is a tough one. I limit my trading to the first 3 hours of the session (overlap in spot forex). It can be tough as you can constantly be looking around the corner at what could be the explosive setup. That discipline is tough. I've started to schedule events for the time after my session so the temptation to trade may be there...but the ability is not.

 

Overall? I would never look back

[MadMarketScientist 11]

Justaguy and 1pipatatime that is great stuff and should be truly inspirational to others realizing there's light at the end of the tunnel. It just takes hard work and patience not to mention a fairly ruthless determination. But you can make it and live the dream.

[1pipatatime 10]

Justaguy and 1pipatatime that is great stuff and should be truly inspirational to others realizing there's light at the end of the tunnel. It just takes hard work and patience not to mention a fairly ruthless determination. But you can make it and live the dream.

 

Thanks and your welcome MadMarketScientist, the only other thing that I would add here at the moment (being the early hours of the morning from where I'm from) is when I first started in this profession I didn't focus on the dream, I focused on perfecting a system that worked for me and then worked on executing the system according to my rules and only ever focused on the dream after I had finished my trading for the day/session, which included analysing every trade I did for the day to see where I could improve my skills. I learnt that from Micheal Jordan.

 

cheers

 

1pipatatime

[sbfx 10]

The social interaction thing depends on the person. I'm actually a lot more sociable now, get to spend time with kids (mine ).

I think the most important thing to be aware of is how unhealthy trading can be until you are consistently profitable (or blow your account). I remember being a zombie living on 3 hours sleep for days. If I couldn't trade the sessions I wanted I would trade the Asian session (I'm based in UK). So your body clock can get out of wack pretty quickly. You think, because you don't have to get up for a "real" job, it doesn't matter. Simply trade through the night. This can be compounded if you are, by nature, a nocturnal person, rather than an early morning person.

If you can still trade profitably whilst tired all the time then you may be lucky to eventually realise that something has to change. Your health will improve and you'll be fresh and ready to trade your chosen session.

[mariyalyone258 10]

This is really good shared by you and I am happy to trade for my part type business and I am now professionally in trading and I can easily do other business with the trading.

[edgararakelyan 10]

It seems as though I was made to be trader from my personality down to my skill sets. Plan on daytrading full time for my whole life, seriously can't see myself doing anything outside of trading/business management positions.

[ntrader 10]

At this point of time i am not happy with my performance as a trader, after having some great years in the past, and managed to save some money, the last couple of years i had really hard time, and now just trying to survive, and recover some of my losses but i know it will take time and a lot of preparation