Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

TinGull

Playing the Initial Balance

Recommended Posts

I want to start a little discussion about the initial balance on MP. I've been noticing lately some patterns that are very interesting to me, and I wanted to get some other folks thoughts on it all.

 

So what is the initial balance? Its the range of trading over the first hour of the session. My sessions I have starting at 8:30am and closing at 5:01 for the YM. What I've been noticing is the size of the IB range and the explosiveness of the day. Also, the move to the outside of the IB range can have it's explosiveness told by the size of the IB usually. I know MrPaul trades with respect to an initial balance, though I don't know for sure his trading strategy with it.

 

So, here's a couple charts I wanted to post up over the last few days. It's interesting stuff and I think definitely warrants a discussion.

 

I'll post a series of pics, each of a different MP chart from the past 10 days or so of the YM. The IB lasts from 8:30 to 9:30 AM EST. This is very similar to Rauls Morning Breeze strategy, in that it's a kind of bracket strategy.

5aa70dbb51481_Picture3.thumb.png.563cb141d606289c5a9cbd0dbecd1465.png

5aa70dbb551af_Picture4.png.d4199093df59663351bc76573e9fb4fe.png

5aa70dbb58403_Picture5.png.93ee6e8215df8f10e36bf1f4d4b47299.png

5aa70dbb5c1eb_Picture6.png.868a2cbcaaf20c1e0679dd17d9680e4e.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, in the screenshots, the IB is the blue area at the left of the first round of TPO's. Sometimes there's a little fakeout, but if you do get faked out, so far it's looking like the other direction will provide you with more than enough to make up for the fakeout loss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TinGull, Do you trade directly after the IB at 9:30EST, or do you wait a half hour to an hour for all the overnight orders to get filled.

The 1st hour (2nd hour if you count premarket IB) the market is open is very volatile so I am still trying to figure out how to trade it

 

Thanks,

Jonathan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TinGull, Do you trade directly after the IB at 9:30EST, or do you wait a half hour to an hour for all the overnight orders to get filled.

The 1st hour (2nd hour if you count premarket IB) the market is open is very volatile so I am still trying to figure out how to trade it

 

Thanks,

Jonathan

 

 

The first 30 minutes is one of my favorites. However, if you are still learning this game it can be quite difficult to initiate a trade during the initial opening minutes. Alot of emotions pass through. It helps if you understand how to read order flow or tape. Markets usually go only 2 ways at the open. Up or down. Usually they can go up, down, and sideways. So the opening has cut 3 options down to 2. My advice is to watch order flow and price carefully the first 3-5 minutes. Price is extremely jumpy around this time and is deciding which way to go. It may decide to test one level first before it reverses in the opposite direction. It is very fast and you must be able to see this on tape. You can look at the direction of TICK's. If TICK's open up negative and can not lift above the zero line on the first attempt, there is a good chance price will decline. However, the TICK can be a little tricky at the open as well so these are tools you willl need to become familiar with. Another method I use is taking the overnight high/low as the reference point for the opening. Let's say price open a few ticks below the overnigth high. At the open, price lifts to this reference point and sells off. This would be a quick short for me.

 

Hope this gives you an idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JG, the IB is from 930-1030 EST, and I dont take the IB break often. IF the IB is extremely small, then the break of it is a great trade to take. That doesn't happen too often, though.

 

I'll ditto what Soultrader said :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies guys.

TinGull, in your 1st post of this thread you said the IB was from 8:30-9:30, and now you say it is 9:30-10:30.

 

Which one is correct? I am taking the Cisco short course and the IB time frame still confuses me. They mention the 1st hour is the IB but sometimes show the pre market on the MP which makes me think it is the 8:20-9:30. Yet not much volume goes off at this time which makes me think it should be the later time frame.

 

JG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this discussion still alive?

I also focus my trading method around the Initial Balance..However, I am also mindful (along with the width of the IB) of how the Value Area migration is developing.

 

I have also heard of something related to the Initial Balance referred to as the 95% rule.Anyone familiar with this term?

 

Opinions and views appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Trotta,

 

The 95% rule you mention probably refers to the number of times at least one side is broken. If you look back, there are very few examples which both the IB high and low end up the high and low of the day. The smaller the range of the IB usually the more likely it is to break.

 

Hope this helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Negotiator.

 

That would make absolute sense. May observations also lead me to conclude that it is 'Rare' that the IB high and low is the high AND low of any given trading day.

 

I came across an article that said that the Initial Balance is now a somewhat outdated technique as 'gone are the days when floor locals could manipulate the price action of the market'.

 

Any trading rooms that one can recommend that specialize in Market Profile and Order Flow that are actually calling 'Live' trades?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 4th April 2025.   USDJPY Falls to 25-Week Low as Safe Havens Surge and Markets Eye NFP Data.   Safe haven currencies and the traditional alternative to the US Dollar continue to increase in value while the Dollar declines. Investors traditionally opt to invest in the Japanese Yen and Swiss Franc at times of uncertainty and when they wish to avoid the Dollar. The Japanese Yen continues to be the best-performing currency of the week and of the day. Will this continue to be the case after today’s US employment figures?   USDJPY - NFP Data And Trade Negotiations The USDJPY is currently trading at a 25-week low and is witnessing one of its strongest declines this week. The exchange rate is no longer obtaining indications from the RSI that the price is oversold. The current bullish swing is obtaining indications of divergence as the price fails to form a higher high. Therefore, short-term momentum is in favour of the US Dollar, but there are still signs the Japanese Yen can regain momentum quickly.       USDJPY 1-Hour Chart     The price movement of the exchange rate in both the short and long term will depend on 3 factors. Today’s US employment data, next week’s inflation rate and most importantly the progress of negotiations between the US and trade partners. If today’s Unemployment Rate increases above 4.1%, the reading will be the highest seen so far in 2025. Currently, the market expects the Unemployment Rate to remain at 4.1% and the Non-Farm Payroll Change to add 137,000 jobs. The average NFP reading this year so far has been 194,000.   If data does not meet expectations, US investors may continue to increase exposure away from the Dollar and to other safe-haven assets. Previously investors were expecting only 2 rate cuts this year from the Federal Reserve, however, most investors now expect up to 4. If today’s employment data deteriorates, economists advise the Federal Reserve may opt to cut interest rates sooner.   Therefore, it is important to note that today’s NFP will influence the USDJPY to a large extent. Whereas in the longer-term, trade negotiations will steal the spotlight. If trade partners are able to negotiate the US Dollar can correct back upwards. Whereas, if other countries retaliate and do not negotiate the US Dollar will remain weak.   USDJPY - The Yen and the Bank of Japan The Japanese Yen is the best-performing currency in 2025 increasing by 6.70% so far. Risk indicators such as the VIX and High-Low Indexes continue to worsen which is positive for the JPY as a safe haven currency.   Yesterday Japan released March business activity data that came in weaker than expected: the Services PMI dropped from 53.7 to 50.0, while the Composite PMI fell from 52.0 to 48.9. The data is the lowest in two years. These figures could hinder further interest rate hikes by the Bank of Japan. However, most economists still expect the Bank Of Japan to hike at least once more. It's also important to note, that even if the BOJ opts for a prolonged pause, a cut is not likely.   Additionally, a 24% tariff was imposed on Japanese exports to the US yesterday. Prime Minister Mr Ishiba expressed disappointment over Japan's failure to secure a tariff exemption and pledged support measures to help domestic industries manage the impact.   Key Takeaway Points: US Dollar Weakens, Safe Havens Rise: The Japanese Yen and Swiss Franc continue to gain as investors shift away from the US Dollar. USDJPY Under Pressure: USDJPY trades at a 25-week low, with short-term momentum favouring the Dollar but long-term trends pointing to potential Yen strength. NFP and Unemployment Crucial: Today’s Non-Farm Payrolls and unemployment figures will heavily influence short-term USDJPY. On the other hand, trade negotiations will dictate longer-term trends. Japan Faces Mixed Signals: Despite weak PMI data and new US tariffs, the Japanese Yen remains strong. Economists expect at least one more rate hike from the Bank of Japan, but no cuts are in sight. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • YUM Yum Brands stock, nice breakout with volume +34.5%, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?YUM
    • Date: 3rd April 2025.   Gold Prices Pull Back After Record High as Traders Eye Trump’s Tariffs.   Key Takeaways:   Gold prices retreated after hitting a record high of $3,167.57 per ounce due to profit-taking. President Trump announced a 10% baseline tariff on all US imports, escalating trade tensions. Gold remains exempt from reciprocal tariffs, reinforcing its safe-haven appeal. Investors await US non-farm payroll data for further market direction. Fed rate cut bets and weaker US Treasury yields underpin gold’s bullish outlook. Gold Prices Retreat from Record Highs Amid Profit-Taking Gold prices saw a pullback on Thursday as traders opted to take profits following a historic surge. Spot gold declined 0.4% to $3,122.10 per ounce as of 0710 GMT, retreating from its fresh all-time high of $3,167.57. Meanwhile, US gold futures slipped 0.7% to $3,145.00 per ounce, reflecting broader market uncertainty over economic and geopolitical developments.   The recent rally was largely fueled by concerns over escalating trade tensions after President Donald Trump unveiled sweeping new import tariffs. The 10% baseline tariff on all goods entering the US further deepened the global trade conflict, intensifying investor demand for safe-haven assets like gold. However, as traders locked in gains from the surge, prices saw a modest retracement.   Trump’s Tariffs and Their Market Implications On Wednesday, Trump introduced a sweeping tariff policy imposing a 10% baseline duty on all imports, with significantly higher tariffs on select nations. While this move was aimed at bolstering domestic manufacturing, it sent shockwaves across global markets, fueling inflation concerns and heightening trade war fears.   Gold’s Role Amid Trade War Escalations Despite the widespread tariff measures, the White House clarified that reciprocal tariffs do not apply to gold, energy, and ‘certain minerals that are not available in the US’. This exemption suggests that central banks and institutional investors may continue favouring gold as a hedge against economic instability. One of the key factors supporting gold is the slowdown that these tariffs could cause in the US economy, which raises the likelihood of future Federal Reserve rate cuts. Gold is currently in a pure momentum trade. Market participants are on the sidelines and until we see a significant shakeout, this momentum could persist.   Impact on the US Dollar and Bond Yields Gold prices typically move inversely to the US dollar, and the latest developments have pushed the dollar to its weakest level since October 2024. Market participants are increasingly pricing in the possibility of a Fed rate cut, as the tariffs could weigh on economic growth.   Additionally, US Treasury yields have plummeted, reflecting growing recession fears. Lower bond yields reduce the opportunity cost of holding non-yielding assets like gold, making it a more attractive investment.         Technical Analysis: Key Levels to Watch Gold’s recent rally has pushed it into overbought territory, with the Relative Strength Index (RSI) above 70. This indicates a potential short-term pullback before the uptrend resumes. The immediate support level lies at $3,115, aligning with the Asian session low. A further decline could bring gold towards the $3,100 psychological level, which has previously acted as a strong support zone. Below this, the $3,076–$3,057 region represents a critical weekly support range where buyers may re-enter the market. In the event of a more significant correction, $3,000 stands as a major psychological floor.   On the upside, gold faces immediate resistance at $3,149. A break above this level could signal renewed bullish momentum, potentially leading to a retest of the record high at $3,167. If bullish momentum persists, the next target is the $3,200 psychological barrier, which could pave the way for further gains. Despite the recent pullback, the broader trend remains bullish, with dips likely to be viewed as buying opportunities.   Looking Ahead: Non-Farm Payrolls and Fed Policy Traders are closely monitoring Friday’s US non-farm payrolls (NFP) report, which could provide critical insights into the Federal Reserve’s next policy moves. A weaker-than-expected jobs report may strengthen expectations for an interest rate cut, further boosting gold prices.   Other key economic data releases, such as jobless claims and the ISM Services PMI, may also impact market sentiment in the short term. However, with rising geopolitical uncertainties, trade tensions, and a weakening US dollar, gold’s safe-haven appeal remains strong.   Conclusion: While short-term profit-taking may trigger minor corrections, gold’s long-term outlook remains bullish. As global trade tensions mount and the Federal Reserve leans toward a more accommodative stance, gold could see further gains in the months ahead.   Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Andria Pichidi HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • AMZN Amazon stock, nice buying at the 187.26 triple+ support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?AMZN
    • DELL Dell Technologies stock, good day moving higher off the 90.99 double support area, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?DELL
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.