Trading Without a Chart

[tradingRAW 10]

"To see things as they are and not the way you want them to be requires good

vision and a reasonable intellect. Actually, it is better if we have no intellect

working at all. This test will illustrate what it takes to be a success using a Zen

approach to the market."

 

I think we make day trading hard, by trying to make it easy. It’s much easier to look at charts or technical indicators but I feel I encounter information overflow. When I first started my eyes wonder to keep up with different information on the stock and I end up missing other opportunities developing. When what all I need is right in front of me on my quote window rather than trying to mentally digest many different information on the same stock to help determine a direction. Imagine looking at MACD, trend lines, Stoch, Bollinger, ….etc on the same stock, it actually makes it harder and requires more talent out of a trader to track redundant information originated from the quote window.

 

I gauge interaction between buyers (bid) and sellers (ask/offer) once the last trade has been made. I do use a simple classifying technique to help determine if it was a transaction initiated by a buyer or a seller so that I can get a feel where sellers/buyers are getting filled and then reference where the bid/ask are. It’s very easy to get a sense of weakness in a stock when the last transaction is 20.75 and now you can buy for 20.74 or you sold at 20.75 now stocks bid 20.76 for a feeling of strength.

 

In my group we focus on mastering 3 elements: Content, Execution, and Discipline. The toughest part is execution as intraday price volatility gets everyone who is not skilled. How ever you decide to trade keep it simple and try to find the lowest common denominator in your strategy.

[86834 10]

Just to wade in to drop my penny in the pond...

 

A lot of traders do trade just off the order book, and I can do it myself, however it easier when combined with some basic levels of the chart. I think one thing that should be pointed out is to trade as such requires the right tools that provide the right features, which is why most professionals use TT X trader. If you try and trade like this off a basic DOM like Ninja Trader etc, you'll get no where because it doesn't give you the information you need to do so.

 

So if you keep the above in mind, the majoirty of retail traders are trading via very basic DOM's, so if this is all you've ever seen, I can understand why someone might think it is impossible.

[MightyMouse 12]

Just to wade in to drop my penny in the pond...

 

A lot of traders do trade just off the order book, and I can do it myself, however it easier when combined with some basic levels of the chart. I think one thing that should be pointed out is to trade as such requires the right tools that provide the right features, which is why most professionals use TT X trader. If you try and trade like this off a basic DOM like Ninja Trader etc, you'll get no where because it doesn't give you the information you need to do so.

 

So if you keep the above in mind, the majoirty of retail traders are trading via very basic DOM's, so if this is all you've ever seen, I can understand why someone might think it is impossible.

 

Interesting. Are you a professional trader?

[86834 10]

Yeah, from a prop background.

[MightyMouse 12]

Just to wade in to drop my penny in the pond...

 

A lot of traders do trade just off the order book, and I can do it myself, however it easier when combined with some basic levels of the chart. I think one thing that should be pointed out is to trade as such requires the right tools that provide the right features, which is why most professionals use TT X trader. If you try and trade like this off a basic DOM like Ninja Trader etc, you'll get no where because it doesn't give you the information you need to do so.

 

So if you keep the above in mind, the majoirty of retail traders are trading via very basic DOM's, so if this is all you've ever seen, I can understand why someone might think it is impossible.

 

Yeah, from a prop background.

That's great. Its always good to have professional traders contributing.

[cavalierking 10]

GEEZ..Let's just get the down and dirty..Does it work or not?

[SIUYA 11]

GEEZ..Let's just get the down and dirty..Does it work or not?

 

yes for some people.....no for others.

[Patuca 13]

No tape reading does not depend on looking at old prints. What has just printed is not what matters. What is about to print is what you are reading. Are they hitting the bid or ask at the right area. Hitting bid at support = buy hitting ask at R = sell.

The concepts you mentioned are too simple. Therefore folks overlook them or don't grasp them. No response from anyone eh? Tape reading is about anticipation of what is going to print.

[hunter1 10]

Reading the last post i realized I had made a mistake that I should correct. If they are hitting the ask at support that is a buy signal and hitting the bid at R. is sell

[Patuca 13]

Reading the last post i realized I had made a mistake that I should correct. If they are hitting the ask at support that is a buy signal and hitting the bid at R. is sell

That sounds better. Thank you sir. :missy:

[zeke 10]

Reading the last post i realized I had made a mistake that I should correct. If they are hitting the ask at support that is a buy signal and hitting the bid at R. is sell

 

hi ! sorry i am getting to the discussion quite late!

 

about the above statement. I would say it works in a few markets depending how much they move. In a slow - thick market you probably end up buying the high and sell the low.

 

What i look when i scalp is where the big buyers are and where the big sellers are....

 

tips to find those guys

 

*Reloading the bid OR reloading the offer

*big order on the bids OR offers (to be safe with this you need to wait that order to be tested few times, if he pulls then that means the order is fake and he tries to just spoof the market)

 

 

thats all for now

[djohnsonhot 10]

There are people who do watch charts for Price Action but use extremes in the $tick (NYSE Breadth) for entries: high ticks, sell, and vice-versa during the Session only trades.

[steve46 12]

There are people who do watch charts for Price Action but use extremes in the $tick (NYSE Breadth) for entries: high ticks, sell, and vice-versa during the Session only trades.

 

Yes indeed I am one of those people using all of the above. Charts used for monitoring but really not necessary as I am interested in specific "numbers"

[Whidbey Island 10]

Analyzing price only is a retail game..... It's what's not talked about that works..... If everyone you talk to does the same your probably in the losing crowd.......99% lose...

[Pony 10]

I was reading a book, and the guy that created this site had to have a real life job after he failed as a day trader. So, he would get stock quotes that were about 20 minutes delayed, and he would try to guess what the price would be. He learned support and resistance by noting a pattern of just price changes. So yes, it's possible. Technically, isn't all of technical analysis just charting small price changes during a certain time frame? The only thing lacking is a volume indicator.

[nakachalet 10]

Thanks Mr Browns At the moment he is doing it in real time and not charging a thing. But you know how that can sometimes go. He never gives all the details of the setup but the calls are good and work 90 % of the time. I can trade so I can cross check the entry in real time. I also can tell what method a good trader is using by about the third call. This guy is different in that he claims no charts no nothing just the use of a dome. His numbers are always sharper than mine and way better than the average trader pivots, support and resistance, etc. In fact you probably have to be a good trader to even understand what he is doing. I have seen a [very] few trade without a chart with the numbers transfered to an excel sheet and they had nowhere near the results of this guy.

Please do not write off the thread. I have been scamed enought during my trading life this not the same.

 

and you appear to be ready to be scammed again.... soon....

 

is he related to you in some way....?

 

post his location, if you are serious....? i must be getting even more senile to even respond to this sort of nonsensical come on.... GEEEEZ

 

POST HIS LOCATION, if you dare....

[nakachalet 10]

It's certainly possible. I can trade without a chart. You can learn how to do it if you search for "".

 

 

 

Seems to me that you are just waiting for some one to ask you who that guy is so you can promote his services. If that's what your after, then be aware that you'll be banned quickly.

 

:haha: pls do allow him/her to post the location of this wiz first....

 

i can hardly wait for something so new.... so economical and so very comical....

 

it would save me several hundred dollars a month, dispatching esig, tradestation, ninja and thinkorswim et al....

 

:doh:

[nakachalet 10]

Tape reading is very possible. Hubert from TTM used to post up videos on it. In fact Soultrader has a few videos on this site about tape reading.

 

My problem was I could never quite get exactly how to apply it and there really is not a lot of information on the internet about it (believe me i've looked and it lead me to the videos i've already mentioned).

 

The other thing is that I feel its going to become a "dead art" very soon. With all the new flash orders and lot breakups and even the change in CME reporting of contract volume the patterns and clues just aren't there like they used to be and I feel this trend will only continue and worsen.

 

ask hubert and john and bob again....

 

they have their own wares and setups to promote.... 400usd a month.... plus additional sums if you care to lease one of bob's setup.... i know, some of you wise guys will immediately ask.... you mean that bob h.... who lost millions.... recently....?

 

by the way, hubert disavowed that he ever mentioned or approved such scheme for trading.

[nakachalet 10]

THey use the dom. Watching something is not the same as knowing what you are watching. lol Yikes they watch the dom and NOTHING esle. I do not totally get it. I have pieces but am missing something. Most traders I dare to say use some type of a dom for order entry. Few if any can trade just with it alone.

 

I am looking for someone who trades just from the dom. A person or group that can help me use it stand alone.

 

My guess that this subject is so far out for most retail traders will never get it. They will also never get a clue as to they trading against. Do they really think the Big players trade just using a chart??

 

POSTER, PLS DO READ HUNTER1 RESPONSE AGAIN AND AGAIN.... for what you are searching for....

 

i felt so sorry for you and others indeed.

 

if you are genuine in what you mentioned, then the best place and the best way is....

 

going back to where and to those whom you claimed to be extraordinary.... and

 

to observe more and ask them....

 

i am also privy to many extraordinaries.... but what you mentioned was only prominent in most boiler room trading sort of operation....

 

and what did you say again, you do not have ulterior motive.... except to seek viable answers....?

 

the place where you can find your answer is where the origination of your quest has been--the extraordinary room with extraordinary traders with extraordinary one DOM device.... or where the boiler room locates, perhaps? sorry....

 

hunter1.... thx

Edited September 23, 2011 by nakachalet

[nakachalet 10]

Just to add to the mix from post number 31 all in the spirit of helping (CAPITALS ARE NOT FOR YELLING, JUST FOR A CLEAR DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE QUESTION AND THE ANSWER)

 

"You seem to be trying to make this form of trading far more complicated and mystical than it is" - YES YOU ARE

 

"And if the average dom doesnot contain enought information, which I suspect it does not. How would one set up such a dom. " - YOU WISH TO TRADE WITH LESS INFORMATION - JUST THE DOM- AND THEN ADD MORE INFORMATION? SEE ANSWER ABOVE

 

"My question to you becomes how do one plot those areas on a dom".- ITS CALLED A CHART, or SEE ANSWER BELOW

 

"The MK will test all price points and after a certian point will come back [ in time] and test them again. How the heck can you do that off just the dom price? " - MEMORY - REMEMBER THE OLD DAYS WERE WE USED TO HAVE TO REMEMBER PHONE NUMBERS AND ADDRESSES, WHILE NOW MOBILE PHONES ETC HAVE MADE MOST OF US LAZY IN THIS RESPECT

 

Is dom trading the new floor trading? Where you just scalp your way along? - NO, JUST A DIFFERENT TOOL THAT SUITS DIFFERENT PEOPLE

 

I also used to work on the floor and trade using a pencil and a piece of paper. We also used to trade options with option price sheets, prior to computers. You needed to be able to do the simple things like add up and subtract very quickly. It took time and practice. Personally I am a visual person and I love the chart, however it will sometimes make you lazy, it will sometimes make you see things that did not really happen, each has its advantgaes and disadvantages. I hope this helps

 

i still like your response at present date.... LOL

[nakachalet 10]

HUH? are you on drugs or something? I'm getting that jack hershey vibe. lol The order book and the DOM are the same thing.

 

You actually need to have a clue before you read the book. You can't just start as an obvious raw newbie and try to read it.

 

Why would you think someone would be interested in helping you if you don't even know how to communicate what you are struggling to understand. I mean really? what is the motive of this thread. I just offered to answer your question and you cannot even manage to answer mine. I'm not sure what you expect but clearly you need to work on your communications skills.

 

just as suspected, his ulterior motive has been exposed, mostly by himself saying excuse me plse.... good job.... BrunoHammerstorm and thx

[nakachalet 10]

Ok. Its official. There is something wrong with you.

 

 

You don't get it do you, we aren't puffing up our chests and expressing our egos, I want to know about this stuff as well, and Bruno etc. have only offered to help as he says he does trade this way, which, as far as all of us can tell IS WHAT YOU ASKED IN THE FIRST PLACE!?

 

You are being a smarta$$ about it all and having digs at people here for no reason, what is your goal here with this thread? That is what we are trying to understand, you asked if anyone trades using the DOM, they do. So now what? What do you want from here? We aren't questioning your ability or saying how good we are, WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SENSE OF THIS THREAD and YOUR posts.

 

Just be clear and speak english. Everyone that has spoken in this thread is either offering to help or interested in this topic, yet you go on about not wanting anymore of our "help". What exactly do you want then? Why are you here? You just want to say you have seen pros trade and ask if anyone trades using just the DOM, which yes there is. So thats it?

 

We don't understand you, that is the problem. We're not belittling you or showing how good we are and not offering "help" because we think we're much better than you, you're asking the questions, so people here are doing their best to answer them, then you randomly go off and say you don't need anyones "help".

 

Like you think everyone is conspiring against you or something? Insecure maybe or something, I don't know. As far as Richard being my friend, I have never heard of or seen Richard before in my life, I just said I agreed with his post, which I do, it makes no sense what you are actually trying to do here. You ask question> people answer question> you tell people you don't want their help and to stop blowing up their ego.

 

"Try and get over it".......try and get over what? This is exactly what we mean, why randomly say that? We are discussing this method and Bruno offered to answer any questions YOU had, of which you reply like this.

 

WTF.

 

you are so very kind, indeed. and that impresses me to no end as well. most traders, myself in particular, just have not cultivated that standard of excellence as yet..... lol

[nakachalet 10]

evroom1 The DOM plots the areas for you. I am looking at TS right now. After the ask you get volume bars and then a volume number. You should notice 3 types of area's right away area's where the volume traded is far heavier than normal, avg area's and areas of very light area's. You look to trade the heavy area's and the very light area's Heavy are accepted and light are rejected. Just Like MP POC heavy areas are places where buyers and sellers agree on a fair value of some sort. Light area's mean only one side traded there the other side did not come to play.

 

Now go watch for awhile and learn how to read the DOM as it builds and you are off to the races.

 

a profitable trade secret is revealed at no charge at Traders Lab....

 

thx hunter1, again.

[nakachalet 10]

Ignoring the spelling - this is the funniest contribution to the thread yet. :helloooo:

 

seconded your motion and notice. how contradictory one can be without one realizing it!

 

you, kiwi, from across the ocean who used to hang around early in the morning with tonyuk et al, many many moons ago and with 7traders, doing the currencies and stuff.... ?

[nakachalet 10]

I knew this reply would bring out the people with chips on their shoulders. The cry babies, the trading misfits who bully without contributing a single thing to the discussion.

 

And Sir Kiwi my guess is you cannot trade. Traders that can trade don't get upset at comments like mine. LOL

 

Please help me and direct me to the place where I can end this thread.

 

LOL LOL LOL

 

that showed just what you do not know at all, absolutely nothing, about kiwi--the wizard....!

 

if you wish to learn how to trade for a living, there is really no need to cross so many people up.... stu....