Trading Without a Chart

[Jumper 10]

You are allowed to hang around and watch from time to time? Don't you know what they use then? I understand the single axis thing, weird way of saying it but I get what you are talking about now

 

So what are you after with this thread? Just interested, as if you already know what they use then what are you trying to achieve here?

[evroom1 10]

THey use the dom. Watching something is not the same as knowing what you are watching. lol Yikes they watch the dom and NOTHING esle. I do not totally get it. I have pieces but am missing something. Most traders I dare to say use some type of a dom for order entry. Few if any can trade just with it alone.

 

I am looking for someone who trades just from the dom. A person or group that can help me use it stand alone.

 

My guess that this subject is so far out for most retail traders will never get it. They will also never get a clue as to they trading against. Do they really think the Big players trade just using a chart??

[ekshay 10]

Yes Jump it is tight lipped. Their can be only two reasons for that. It does not work or it works really really well. If you have any institutional experince you already know the answer. I am allowed to hang around and watch from time to time. The results are pretty amazing.

 

evroom, there is nothing great about trading while purely watching the numbers. Its the SAME as trading with a chart ... just that a huge percentage of people are visual, while some are not.

 

My dad is pretty much allergic to charts. Euclidean Geometry is totally not his forte. But, as a Chartered Accountant, numbers are just fun for him. He can tell Nifty's highs & lows from last 10 years, like the guys who remember the stats of their favorite sports teams.

 

I, otoh, dont even recall my entries & exits from yesterday. All I can possibly tell you, is that it had to be a pullback entry, cause thats all I trade now.

 

-----

 

I know several traders for whom the term "charting package" is not a part of their dictionary.

 

Some trade with Pivot Points

Only because when they started some older trader told them that Pivots were important.

 

Some trade Support-Resistance and Value Areas

They dont call it that though, they just 'remember' the numbers where in recent days, the markets have been lingering or reversing around.

 

Some have learnt to 'sense' the Momentum in their specific markets

They 'know' the probable distance that the price is likely to stop its correction at.

Thats moving averages & trendlines for me.

 

Then, there are some 'Advanced' guys, with huge position-sizes, who pretty much need to work like Marketmakers/Specialists, buying when market is falling & selling when its rising.

... More than the price axis, they are looking at their inventory & PnL.

 

-----

 

The 'amazing results' have nothing to do with 'having or not having a chart'.

Just as 90%+ of chart traders lose money, so it is for the non-chartists.

Everyone has to learn to see the SAME contexts & patterns.

Whether they have a numeric mind or visual, will define what style will they succeed with.

 

[hunter1 10]

You seem to be trying to make this form of trading far more complicated and mystical than it is. This is just the way floor traders were taught to read the market back in the old days. My very first day on the floor I was given pad and pencil and told to chart the price movement.

Then when once you got the basics down you we taught to read the order flow at price areas. That all it is.

 

The Dom is just providing what I and all other traders that learned on the floor had to learn to do by hand. Volume and time didn't even enter into things at first because you couldn't chart those things by hand in real time. That was for the big guys upstairs.

 

You get two types of price areas to look to trade. Accepted price and rejected price. As you get close to these areas you watch the order action. Are orders picking up or slowing down and in what direction. That's all there is. If you are near a previous rejected price area and order flow slows you have your trade. if order flow picks up and you go through the rejected area and there is a previous accepted area on the other side you trade in the direction of the previous accepted area.

[Tiobingo 10]

evroom, I apologize for missing the mark with your thread. It wasn't my intention to talk about me in a 'me' context. I was just using myself as an example. Sorry though because I didn't really want to get off topic. Your question is intriguing to me and I was just wondering if there was some other motive, other than to make money. It wasn't meant as a judgment to your question or idea. I guess I just wanted to understand the reason for seeking such a trade methodology. And now I can see from hunter1's post the essence of this idea. Not being a floor trader had me thinking about it differently.:crap:

Edited June 19, 2010 by Tiobingo
typo

[evroom1 10]

Now we may be getting somewhere. Thanks for the post. It would be an pre screen floor trader who would the most to say about this. However the floor traders had many other clues the average dom trader might not have. The Goldman Sachs guy standing near him for example. Pit noise etc. All what turned out to be very good clues for what was happening. I quote you now

"You seem to be trying to make this form of trading far more complicated and mystical than it is"

Nope, others far better than me have already done that. I seek only for quidance on how to "see"movement using only the numbers that appear on the average dom. And if the average dom doesnot contain enought information, which I suspect it does not. How would one set up such a dom.

Your statement on price areas is right on. Shows you can trade. I respect you. My question to you becomes how do one plot those areas on a dom. The MK will test all price points and after a certian point will come back [ in time] and test them again. How the heck can you do that off just the dom price?

Is dom trading the new floor trading? Where you just scalp your way along?

Interesting stuff.

[evroom1 10]

Thanks for your post. All you say is true. There are many ways to trade and not all of them include a traditional chart. Let me know if meet someone who trades just using the dom. There may be more in this tool than I think,

[evroom1 10]

Don't worry about it. I believe most people trade to make money. Some ways to make money are easy and some are hard.

IF in this form I asked the question how do I use the MACD? Some nice soul would be kind enought to explain it to me or send me to a resource where I could find out.

 

That is all I am trying to with dom trading.

 

I thought I was asking a simple question.

[BrunoHammerstorm 10]

I trade without a chart. Although I do have to glance at the price/volume occasionally if I was away and missed something.

 

What are you trying to understand?

 

What do you understand already?

 

Where are you trying to go with this?

 

Take care.

[evroom1 10]

I think I going to start a new thread and call it Dom trading. I understand one can trade without a chart.

I know that with experince you can see which way the MK is trending by watching order flow.

Most non chart traders have an idea of where they want to do business before they start placing trades.

 

My question is simple. The so called dom traders I have met claim they look at nothing but the dom. All signals come from it.

If this is possible how does one do it? And is this just a scalping method.?

 

Again is it possible to trade JUST USING the dom.? if so how?

[BrunoHammerstorm 10]

I think I going to start a new thread and call it Dom trading. I understand one can trade without a chart.

I know that with experince you can see which way the MK is trending by watching order flow.

Most non chart traders have an idea of where they want to do business before they start placing trades.

 

My question is simple. The so called dom traders I have met claim they look at nothing but the dom. All signals come from it.

If this is possible how does one do it? And is this just a scalping method.?

 

Again is it possible to trade JUST USING the dom.? if so how?

 

Please don't ask me to repeat myself. I'll say it one more time before I lose interest in this thread, I trade without a chart. Obviously I have to look at the price/volume relationships if I missed some action. However they can be misleading and can be gamed at certain times of day. Reading the book will show you this and will really improve your ability to read a chart.

 

Why don't you tell me how you currently trade, then I will consider a way that the order book might be able to help you. You can answer that question right? You can tell me what you already know about book and tell me how you currently trade? correct? If you can communicate this then I will be able to help you understand book.

[evroom1 10]

I thank you for your interest and help. I believe I have your answer. You have been kind enought to let me know how you trade. It takes great skill to master the order book.

If dom trading is mastering the book then I have another piece of the puzzle.

 

This was not intended to be a thread on how I currently trade.

Take care

[RichardTodd 10]

Again is it possible to trade JUST USING the dom.? if so how?

 

This is a very frustrating thread to read. You supposedly have access to professionals who let you watch them trade with just a DOM. Additionally, people here have told you that they also trade with just the DOM. So why are you still asking if it is possible on post #35 of this thread? What else could anyone say to convince you?

 

You can see by the replies that people are trying to figure out what you are trying to accomplish here, to no avail. Especially if you are going to brush off people like BrunoHammerstorm who were reaching out to help you, then it seems like you are wasting everyone's time.

[BrunoHammerstorm 10]

I thank you for your interest and help. I believe I have your answer. You have been kind enought to let me know how you trade. It takes great skill to master the order book.

If dom trading is mastering the book then I have another piece of the puzzle.

 

This was not intended to be a thread on how I currently trade.

Take care

 

HUH? are you on drugs or something? I'm getting that jack hershey vibe. lol The order book and the DOM are the same thing.

 

You actually need to have a clue before you read the book. You can't just start as an obvious raw newbie and try to read it.

 

Why would you think someone would be interested in helping you if you don't even know how to communicate what you are struggling to understand. I mean really? what is the motive of this thread. I just offered to answer your question and you cannot even manage to answer mine. I'm not sure what you expect but clearly you need to work on your communications skills.

[Jumper 10]

Yeah I agree with Richard, you have seen the pros trade, so you would have as good an idea as anyone, people here have told you they trade like it as well, as soon as someone asks how you trade so he can help you use the DOM, you go running for cover?

 

Get on with it, you have asked if its possible to trade just using the DOM, it is. So now what? Thats all you wanted to know? Something you already knew if you can watch the pros.

[evroom1 10]

I think I answered your question. I do not want any more of your "help"

I realize that may come as blow to your ego but I sure you will figure a way to get in the last word. In the mean time try and get over it.

lol

[evroom1 10]

I guess this Richard is your friend, LOL

 

But he is right on one thing I need to improve my communication skills.

 

I will let you figure what to say next.

[Jumper 10]

Ok. Its official. There is something wrong with you.

 

 

You don't get it do you, we aren't puffing up our chests and expressing our egos, I want to know about this stuff as well, and Bruno etc. have only offered to help as he says he does trade this way, which, as far as all of us can tell IS WHAT YOU ASKED IN THE FIRST PLACE!?

 

You are being a smarta$$ about it all and having digs at people here for no reason, what is your goal here with this thread? That is what we are trying to understand, you asked if anyone trades using the DOM, they do. So now what? What do you want from here? We aren't questioning your ability or saying how good we are, WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SENSE OF THIS THREAD and YOUR posts.

 

Just be clear and speak english. Everyone that has spoken in this thread is either offering to help or interested in this topic, yet you go on about not wanting anymore of our "help". What exactly do you want then? Why are you here? You just want to say you have seen pros trade and ask if anyone trades using just the DOM, which yes there is. So thats it?

 

We don't understand you, that is the problem. We're not belittling you or showing how good we are and not offering "help" because we think we're much better than you, you're asking the questions, so people here are doing their best to answer them, then you randomly go off and say you don't need anyones "help".

 

Like you think everyone is conspiring against you or something? Insecure maybe or something, I don't know. As far as Richard being my friend, I have never heard of or seen Richard before in my life, I just said I agreed with his post, which I do, it makes no sense what you are actually trying to do here. You ask question> people answer question> you tell people you don't want their help and to stop blowing up their ego.

 

"Try and get over it".......try and get over what? This is exactly what we mean, why randomly say that? We are discussing this method and Bruno offered to answer any questions YOU had, of which you reply like this.

 

WTF.

[SIUYA 11]

Just to add to the mix from post number 31 all in the spirit of helping (CAPITALS ARE NOT FOR YELLING, JUST FOR A CLEAR DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE QUESTION AND THE ANSWER)

 

"You seem to be trying to make this form of trading far more complicated and mystical than it is" - YES YOU ARE

 

"And if the average dom doesnot contain enought information, which I suspect it does not. How would one set up such a dom. " - YOU WISH TO TRADE WITH LESS INFORMATION - JUST THE DOM- AND THEN ADD MORE INFORMATION? SEE ANSWER ABOVE

 

"My question to you becomes how do one plot those areas on a dom".- ITS CALLED A CHART, or SEE ANSWER BELOW

 

"The MK will test all price points and after a certian point will come back [ in time] and test them again. How the heck can you do that off just the dom price? " - MEMORY - REMEMBER THE OLD DAYS WERE WE USED TO HAVE TO REMEMBER PHONE NUMBERS AND ADDRESSES, WHILE NOW MOBILE PHONES ETC HAVE MADE MOST OF US LAZY IN THIS RESPECT

 

Is dom trading the new floor trading? Where you just scalp your way along? - NO, JUST A DIFFERENT TOOL THAT SUITS DIFFERENT PEOPLE

 

I also used to work on the floor and trade using a pencil and a piece of paper. We also used to trade options with option price sheets, prior to computers. You needed to be able to do the simple things like add up and subtract very quickly. It took time and practice. Personally I am a visual person and I love the chart, however it will sometimes make you lazy, it will sometimes make you see things that did not really happen, each has its advantgaes and disadvantages. I hope this helps

[ziebarf 10]

Browse this forum a little, there are several explanations of tape reading and using the DOM to trade. Soultrader posted some videos on the subject. Thalestrader also talked about looking for price patterns on the DOM in the Reading Charts in Real Time thread.

[hunter1 10]

evroom1 The DOM plots the areas for you. I am looking at TS right now. After the ask you get volume bars and then a volume number. You should notice 3 types of area's right away area's where the volume traded is far heavier than normal, avg area's and areas of very light area's. You look to trade the heavy area's and the very light area's Heavy are accepted and light are rejected. Just Like MP POC heavy areas are places where buyers and sellers agree on a fair value of some sort. Light area's mean only one side traded there the other side did not come to play.

 

Now go watch for awhile and learn how to read the DOM as it builds and you are off to the races.

[Joe McGuire 10]

THey use the dom. Watching something is not the same as knowing what you are watching. lol Yikes they watch the dom and NOTHING esle. I do not totally get it. I have pieces but am missing something. Most traders I dare to say use some type of a dom for order entry. Few if any can trade just with it alone.

 

I am looking for someone who trades just from the dom. A person or group that can help me use it stand alone.

 

My guess that this subject is so far out for most retail traders will never get it. They will also never get a clue as to they trading against. Do they really think the Big players trade just using a chart??

 

I trade like this very successfully. Purely using the order book. i use X-trader. Feel free to PM me

[evroom1 10]

Thanks I am familiar with all theses things. Except the method does not use volume orf any sort or so they say. I can and do plot areas of interest, which I get from a chart. I can like all volume trained traders notice the action on the tape. I see very little when I watch the dom. Just alot of game playing is what I see to date. So I ask you can you trade just using the dom and nothing esle, no volume, no volume at price, just pure price? I am sorry if my question was not clear.

[evroom1 10]

Thank you Sir so far this thread has been interesting to say the least. You are one of two people who actually tried to give helpful information.

[evroom1 10]

If you change the question to suit your limited perpective, then it is me. I am not looking to learn trading that way.

I thank you for your efforts.

Take care and good trading