MB Trading/ECN Forex Brokers

[Cory2679 11]

I've been researching ECN forex brokers, and I've almost decided on MB Trading.

 

I have the following list of criteria (which MB Trading seems to meet):

 

• No dealing desk
  
• Straight through processing
  
• Full-time ECN
  
• CFTC registered FCM
  
• NFA member
  
• 100:1 leverage
  
• Competitive execution, spreads, commissions, etc.
  

My questions for this thread...is there any particular reason why anyone would recommend not going with MB Trading? Is there any ECN forex broker that anyone would recommend over MB Trading for any particular reason?

 

Thanks,

 

Cory

[Kiwi 16]

When you have had enough of MB and decide that 50:1 might be enough you might consider Interactive Brokers. I've never traded with MB but I always get the feeling that they are a step on the way like ameritrade or something. I could be wrong.

[MidKnight 12]

There was a decent thread on that 'other' forum some years back where a trader I very highly respect was questioning MBTs liquidity providers for the FX market. A guy from MBT was replying to thread (from memory, I think he was the principal for MBT) and wouldn't give any information on the guys queries about who was providing liqudity. The MBT guy kept saying it was part of their proprietary process or some equally obscure and nonsense response. The trader kept pressing but the same responses were given. I thought that was pretty shady. I mean what is so proprietary about saying UBS, deutsche bank etc are making our markets. With IB you can view the FX product info and find a list of all the banks that are making the markets for the ECN FX product. It is no secret, and it shouldn't be a secret for you as a customer - IMHO.

 

With kind regards,

MK

[Cory2679 11]

Thanks for the input, guys. I appreciate it. All things considered though, I think I'm still going to move foward with MB Trading for now.

 

Like I said, they seem to meet all of my criteria...and I do want 100:1 leverage. While most of the time, 50:1 would be sufficient (I believe the highest leverage IB offers is actually 40:1, Kiwi), since I'm currently focused on only the EUR/USD, there are times when I'm watching price on something like a 1 minute chart (side by side with something like a 15 minute chart) and will enter a trade with 5 or maybe even 4 ticks of risk (at a significant area)! With those trades, sometimes I like to put on some size...I currently generally risk the same amount per trade (2%), so that small risk zone requires more size...these types of trades offer spectacular R:R opportunity for me.

 

I would never need more than 100:1...I could sometimes use more than 40:1.

 

Regarding their ECN forex broker status, I asked them (take it for what it's worth)...

 

Cory: Hello. I'm looking for an absolute, all-inclusive "yes" or "no" answer to the following: Is MB Trading a true full-time ECN forex broker (no dealing desk + straight through processing + electronic communications network, 100% of the time)?

MBT Paul: Yes

 

All in all, I think MBT is good for my current situation and what I currently want/need.

 

EDIT: I will keep IB in the back of my mind for the future...I've heard nothing but good things about them here...MBT has been mixed.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Cory2679

[Cory2679 11]

EDIT: I will keep IB in the back of my mind for the future...I've heard nothing but good things about them here...MBT has been mixed.

 

IB seems to have a respectable following...even around TL...you guys (Kiwi, MK), thales (althought I don't think he trades spot fx), I think Blowfish, and maybe some others.

 

Furthermore, I was just reading a thread in the "other" forum about some guys trading some huge size in spot fx...while a lot of the conversation was about big guys having relationships with multiple banks/prime brokerages/liquidity providers, etc., IB still was talked about highly.

 

It seems that among the ECN forex available to an individual retail trader, IB really shines.

 

So, it'll probably be pretty much like Kiwi's first post for me...MBT as a stepping stone to IB.

 

I'm still not up to trading at full size ("full size" for me is a $10k account...IB's initial deposit requirement). MBT will allow me the opportunity to continue to scale up to "full size" with an ECN broker, rather than a market maker like Oanda.

[keymoo 10]

You could also consider Dukascopy - very transparent and have good protection with swiss banks.

[dam5h 10]

where does fxcm fit into this picture? i'm trying to learn more about forex and the various brokers.

[Cory2679 11]

where does fxcm fit into this picture? i'm trying to learn more about forex and the various brokers.

 

FXCM is not an ECN broker.

 

This link was provided on another thread that I thought was useful in my research: ECN brokers list | ECN/STP Forex brokers It'll probably help answer some of your questions.

 

EDIT: Well...I take that back...if you're trading with FXCM Active Trader it's an ECN according to the link I provided.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Cory2679
"edit"

[micro-wave 10]

Hey everyone, new member here, but definitely not new to trading forex. I just recently found this forum. Anyway here is my thoughts...

 

I won't consider MBT because of their commissions, IB has a bit better commissions, but still high. Perhaps you could negotiate them down?? I tried once, but they didn't allow it until a certain volume. If you can do a certain volume, you will get discounted. It is pretty high though.

 

MBT claims to be a true ECN platform with STP, but I am really not sure about that to be honest. There has been much argument and debate. I will tell you one thing... If a broker doesn't tell you their liquidity providers, look the other way. Dukascopy does this as well, what is also fishy about Dukascopy is they claim such high volume.... and there commissions are CRAZY.

 

I am a scalper, and the person asking the question sounds like he is a scalper as well. I don't know which pair you trade or how many ticks you go for on average, but if you're like me and scalp EU or UJ, anything over $2 per 100k is pretty much out of the question along with anything > 1 pip spread (for me). I keep my stops 5-6ticks including the spread/commissions. However, if you trade more volatile pairs like EJ/GU then $2.50 commissions per 100k that IB charges might not matter THAT much. Depends on the style I suppose.

 

I trade with Oanda, and to be honest I am quite happy there. The net costs are much lower then both MBT and IB and the execution, platform, and feed is great these days. This was different a few years back. Forget about trading the news with Oanda... so if thats your thing, stay away. I also much prefer fractional pips being a scalper. They are a market maker, but they aren't a bucketshop. I would never use MT4 to scalp... or ever for that matter. MT4 is bucketshop.

 

I would consider IB.... but never MBT.

 

My next stop after Oanda is a tier 2 prime brokerage using a CNX platform. You have to negotiate commissions and deposits with most of them though. Minimum deposit for a true tier 2 ECN is around 50k... most are higher. You could always try negotiating them down though!

 

one more option... You could try FXDD using the powertrader platform... They are the lowest deposit ECN with the best commissions I know of... and offer 100:1, but also note that brokers like FXDD/CMS/Alpari... etc aren't TRUE Currenex, they are Viking CNX, which is a market maker model CNX platform. It might be STP, but incoming data can and will be manipulated and the broker has last look before your order goes through. This is not the same as tier 2 PB CNX models....

 

So True ECN brokers are limited for retail traders who don't have at least 50k to drop into a tier 2 PB. The only one I know of is IB..... for 10k.

[micro-wave 10]

Hey, just found this forum. I would never scalp or trade with MBT, besides there commissions are too high. If you must go ECN, I'd say your best bet for anything under 50k deposit is IB. If you have 20-50k you can try negotiating with a Tier 2 PB.

 

Anyone who doesn't tell you who their liquidity providers are... forget it. Same thing with Dukascopy, and there commissions are CRAZY... out of the question. Whats even more fishy is how much volume they claim....

 

FXDD/CMS/Alpari etc have CNX platforms, but they are CNX Viking, which is a market maker model. They might be STP, but incoming data can be manipulated, and they have last look before your order goes through (same with MBT). FXDD being the best of the bunch as far as spreads/commissions are concerned, and you will have no problem getting your money from them, and they are ok. Liquidity providers are also a question that won't be answered here... so you know none of these are TRUE ECN's in that sense.

 

IB has high commissions also, but not THAT bad. I am not a fan of the ladder, but I here good things about them, and a lot of people do like booktrader.

 

I like Oanda... even though they are a market maker, they are not a bucketshop. They can't be beat as far as net costs are concerned.. I love there platform and execution has been great and there feed is really nice now.

 

The only brokers I would use until I get to a Tier 2 PB on CNX is... Oanda, FXDD, or IB... especially for scalping. FXCM was ok too, but spread is too high now...

[Guest Tresor]

List of ECN brokers: ECN brokers list | ECN/STP Forex brokers

 

Some of the brokers listed there claim they are ''ECN-style brokers'' or say their platform is ''true ECN''.

 

Be careful. It is like buying a HD TV set. When you go home and unpack the thing it might turn out that what you bought is a HDready TV, not a fullHD TV set.

 

One should study a contract between the ''ECN'' broker and a client. If the broker says it is going to be a counterparty to your trades (take opposite side), then such a broker provides only ECN liquidity (to itself via ECN, not to you).

 

Just because a broker charges only commission does not mean it provides ECN to you.

[Currenex4all 10]

Dear forum users,

 

I’m a representative of Currenex. I represent our trading platform and will speak to the advantages of using Currenex technnology. We’re connected to more than 60 global banks and provide direct inter-bank market access for our institutional traders with a prime broker relationship For traders without the capital requirements to establish a prime broker relationship, finding a Currenex partner who uses Currenex’s proven technology provide is an excellent way for you to excel in Foreign Exchange. To start trading Foreign Exchange using Currenex technology, visit Currenex | About Us - White Label Partners.

 

Please feel free to post any questions you have regarding Currenex and/or our White-Label partners. I’d be more than happy to address them.

 

Regards,

Richard

[richard zamora 10]

I've been researching ECN forex brokers, and I've almost decided on MB Trading.

 

I have the following list of criteria (which MB Trading seems to meet):

 

• No dealing desk
  
• Straight through processing
  
• Full-time ECN
  
• CFTC registered FCM
  
• NFA member
  
• 100:1 leverage
  
• Competitive execution, spreads, commissions, etc.
  

My questions for this thread...is there any particular reason why anyone would recommend not going with MB Trading? Is there any ECN forex broker that anyone would recommend over MB Trading for any particular reason?

 

Thanks,

 

Cory

hey cory,

 

can you help me out? im new to forex and have been using forex.com. i want to move to MB trading, but i am having a hard time adjusting to its level 2 views.......

 

can u provide me some guidance?

 

thnkx!

[Cory2679 11]

hey cory,

 

can you help me out? im new to forex and have been using forex.com. i want to move to MB trading, but i am having a hard time adjusting to its level 2 views.......

 

can u provide me some guidance?

 

thnkx!

 

I'm sorry but I don't use it...I can't be of much help. My only advice would be to just practice...study it and demo/sim trade with it until you feel 100% comfortable.

 

If I ever watch a DOM, it's the Ninja DOM...I use NinjaTrader for charting/analytics. I just use MBT Desktop to put the orders in.

 

...and if I watch a DOM, it's only to watch price. I currently trade only the EUR/USD during times and at a size small enough where liquidity is never an issue.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Cory2679

[natedredd10 10]

Hey everyone, new member here, but definitely not new to trading forex.

 

please point me to how its even possible Oanda is making any kind of interbank market.

This is such bullshit.

The whole concept that an ECN is better than a broker is a half truth...

Edited July 24, 2010 by natedredd10

[MidKnight 12]

I don't get what you are saying there - what is BS? Or what is possible/impossible - I cannot tell what you are referring to based on your post or the quote.

 

With kind regards,

MK

[Guest Tresor]

Please feel free to post any questions you have regarding Currenex and/or our White-Label partners. I’d be more than happy to address them.

 

Regards,

Richard

 

Hi Richard,

 

Can you confirm this Currenex related picture by Dukascopy? http://www.dukascopy.com/swiss/english/forex/swfx/liquidity_business_model/ Is Duka your client?

[peterfx 10]

I've been researching ECN forex brokers, and I've almost decided on MB Trading.

 

I have the following list of criteria (which MB Trading seems to meet):

 

• No dealing desk
  
• Straight through processing
  
• Full-time ECN
  
• CFTC registered FCM
  
• NFA member
  
• 100:1 leverage
  
• Competitive execution, spreads, commissions, etc.
  

My questions for this thread...is there any particular reason why anyone would recommend not going with MB Trading? Is there any ECN forex broker that anyone would recommend over MB Trading for any particular reason?

 

Thanks,

 

Cory

 

I like MB trading for stocks trading, in which they are very good, but for forex-trading they are too slow for me. Alpari is my favorite forex-broker and I recently started checking sunbird fx demo because I read good reviews about the performance of this broker. So far, it is as fast as they say, but it don't have a live account yet..

[peterfx 10]

I've been researching ECN forex brokers, and I've almost decided on MB Trading.

 

I have the following list of criteria (which MB Trading seems to meet):

 

• No dealing desk
  
• Straight through processing
  
• Full-time ECN
  
• CFTC registered FCM
  
• NFA member
  
• 100:1 leverage
  
• Competitive execution, spreads, commissions, etc.
  

My questions for this thread...is there any particular reason why anyone would recommend not going with MB Trading? Is there any ECN forex broker that anyone would recommend over MB Trading for any particular reason?

 

Thanks,

 

Cory

 

I used to have an account with MBT for both forex trading and stock trading. I think it is a very decent broker, but its performance in forex trading is slow for a real ECN broker. So, if the speed of the system is not important for you, I would recommend this broker. I would also recommend for you to try Alpari UK, which is my prime broker and it is very fast. The minus there is the large deposit that they require, so if you look for smaller deposits (100$) try Sunbirdfx, which is a real ECN broker with great performance and customer service.

[futurescalper 10]

I've been researching ECN forex brokers, and I've almost decided on MB Trading.

 

I have the following list of criteria (which MB Trading seems to meet):

 

• No dealing desk
  
• Straight through processing
  
• Full-time ECN
  
• CFTC registered FCM
  
• NFA member
  
• 100:1 leverage
  
• Competitive execution, spreads, commissions, etc.
  

My questions for this thread...is there any particular reason why anyone would recommend not going with MB Trading? Is there any ECN forex broker that anyone would recommend over MB Trading for any particular reason?

 

Thanks,

 

Cory

 

I just noticed this thread. I have experience with precision scalping using MB Trading in the EUR/USD Forex market.

 

You are correct. MB Trading is the best choice.

 

What's wrong with MB Trading? Nothing. However, I've heard their support channels and policies might be a bit "byzantine" in the sense that sometimes things might be done simpler. But is that a criticism? I don't think so.

 

What matters for me is that MB Trading implements a true ECN which tolerates unrestricted scalping, pays me for adding liquidity (so I pay very little commission) and is rock solid.

 

For my needs, which are hundreds of precision scalp micro trades per day, there is no better deal, especially for the small Forex trader. Then you need the software to precisely use their ECN, and their own trading platforms are somewhat "ho hum"... Best to use a specialized platform, especially for scalping and getting commission credits, rather than paying commission.

[futurescalper 10]

I used to have an account with MBT for both forex trading and stock trading. I think it is a very decent broker, but its performance in forex trading is slow for a real ECN broker. So, if the speed of the system is not important for you, I would recommend this broker. I would also recommend for you to try Alpari UK, which is my prime broker and it is very fast. The minus there is the large deposit that they require, so if you look for smaller deposits (100$) try Sunbirdfx, which is a real ECN broker with great performance and customer service.

 

I wonder whether you're talking about their MetaTrader implementation. Originally, in developing my software, we desperately tried to use MetaTrader EA's. But the performance was not only horrible, but inconsistent. Waiting like 10 seconds for fills.

 

So, reluctantly, we moved over to their proprietary API. Now Forex fills are roughly 500 milliseconds, start to finish, and extremely consistent performance.

 

So, their MetaTrader 4 implementation is/was just awful. But by using their API, we can analyze their realtime ECN DOM, so we get way more information and control. I do literally hundreds of scalps per day, and performance is fabulous.

[Trader1 10]

is anyone using MBT UK and MT4? how is your experience?

[futurescalper 10]

is anyone using MBT UK and MT4? how is your experience?

 

In creating a Forex micro scalping platform we began with MT4 and used EA's to do socket comms, etc. In the process we had very inconsistent and very slow execution, "hangs", etc.

 

In my view, MB Trading provides MetaTrader more or less as a "necessary evil", since MT4 is so popular. The implementation (about a year ago) left much to be desired. My speculation is a bunch of scripts on some unix boxes at their "bridge provider" resulted in very slow and inconsistent results.

 

So we switched to their proprietary COM API, wrapped up with C# .Net, which was a major hassle. The upside of that was that we had access to the live Euro DOM for analysis purposes, and order entry times dropped to very consistent sub-second executions, every time.

 

I learned that MetaTrader implementations, particular in the context of ECN's are certainly not all the same and was not able to achieve my goals through their MT4 implementation.

 

On the other hand, by integrating with their own API, which was a huge effort, we are in a much better position for Eur/Usd scalping.

 

MB Trading is a great service, and their Forex is second to none, but most people equate Forex with MetaTrader and it was in that area where I was disappointed.

 

Just my experience. HyperScalper.

[Trader1 10]

I used to trade with MBT Us, and you are correct about MT4 being a neccesary evil, it didn't work very well and I was very disapoited up until I stopped trading with them, that was about a year ago, since then they have opened in Uk and maybe they upgraded their MT4 by now?

maybe I should have another go with them. btw, they are not a real ECN, they admitted it before in FF, they are some kind of hybrid ECN, not really sure how that work, they got very nice spreads on Fx though, is someone using their MT4? can you tell me your experience? cheers

[futurescalper 10]

I used to trade with MBT Us, and you are correct about MT4 being a neccesary evil, it didn't work very well and I was very disapoited up until I stopped trading with them, that was about a year ago, since then they have opened in Uk and maybe they upgraded their MT4 by now?

maybe I should have another go with them. btw, they are not a real ECN, they admitted it before in FF, they are some kind of hybrid ECN, not really sure how that work, they got very nice spreads on Fx though, is someone using their MT4? can you tell me your experience? cheers

 

Our requirement was frequent micro-scalping, literally maybe a 50 or a hundred open micro-positions, and then LIFO closing of these positions. This facilitates cost basis averaging, etc. Depending upon how quickly, or how accurately, you need to place your orders their executions may or may not be good enough. Put pressure on them to make their implementation better. There is no excuse for 10-20 second execution times, etc. Using their API, we get executions 500 msecs round trip end to end. This is not fast by some standards, but the consistency makes it a great trading environment.

 

As to whether they are a real ECN, they are now calling themselves an EXN. To me, trading with precision scalping, it sure feels exactly like a real ECN. And they offer Credits for adding liquidity on their ECN.

 

One thing interesting about their EUR/USD at least, where I have direct experience. What I would call "retail liquidity" (using marketable orders, and paying commission) the liquity and execution times are very fast. However, what I call "wholesale liquidity" where you rest on their ECN and compete with Market Maker, it is rare that somebody comes along and hits your resting order, so that liquidity is quite low. If you are Buying, and move your order into the Upper Half of the spread, you can get it resting, and get hit (thus making the Credit). The danger is that you hit a counterparty, and then you pay commission. But their commissions (when you have to pay them) are only 2.95 per $100k base currency per side, so maybe 0.8 ticks is lost in commission. That's great pricing !

 

HyperScalper