Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

thalestrader

The Race

Recommended Posts

...one would need to get reckless to try to make a million with a $10k account in anything less than a 20 year period...

 

Don't assume that because you would need 20 years, everyone else would also need 20 years. Is it that hard to believe that there are traders that are much better than you and could make many times what you claim is possible without getting "reckless?"

 

It'd be different if you said that you would need to get reckless, but you said "one" would need to get reckless...implying that it applies to everyone.

 

:2c:

Edited by TMBTC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... Days like today I usually make hay but something was not right in my head and I'm wondering if it was "the race". .

 

From the pnl thread two months ago ...

 

wow! i need to be spanked! I broke the ultimate trading axiom - never let a winner turn into a loser. was up $370 and in a futile attempt to get $130 more bucks wound up losing it all +another 470

 

Not for nothing enoch, but The Race is not what is wrong with your trading. As a matter of fact, as crazy as I'm sure this sounds to the vast majority of TL lurkers reading this thread, I believe that you may find that The Race can help you identify what's wrong, if you use it as the tool it is.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wouldn't try to race to a million with, say, 10k in an account. I do not have that kind of "play money" and one would need to get reckless to try to make a million with a $10k account in anything less than a 20 year period.

 

May I ask, MM, what you think is a reasonable profit one might expect from a good trader actively trading a 10K stake over, say a twelve month period? At what point would you consider the gains to be the result of recklessness? Is 50K on a 10K base too much to expect? 20K? 10k? 5K? 2K?

 

I'm not trying to be adversarial. I think this is a fair subject for discussion within this thread - what do folks reading this thread expect, in terms of profit, from their trading. What do you expect from your trading?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't assume that because you would need 20 years, everyone else would also need 20 years. Is it that hard to believe that there are traders that are much better than you and could make 100 times what you claim is possible without getting "reckless?"

 

It'd be different if you said that you would need to get reckless, but you said "one" would need to get reckless...implying that it applies to everyone.

 

:2c:

 

I am 100% sure that there are traders that are 100 times better than me at trading, the thing is that I am not 100% sure that there are traders who are 100 times better than you and if I was 100% sure that there were traders who are 100 times better than you, I wouldn't care to point it out.

 

At a 30% tax bracket it would take a 37% annually compounded rate of return to have an account worth +- $ 1,000,000 at the end of 20 years if you started with $10,000 today. I did not mean to imply that I thought I could do that in 20 years because I know for a fact that I can’t unless I get incredibly lucky. I simply threw 20 years out there as a large number.

 

And, I apologize for crushing dreams if your dream is to make that type of return. More power to you. Make sure you pay taxes in your dreams too because they will get taken out every year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am 100% sure that there are traders that are 100 times better than me at trading, the thing is that I am not 100% sure that there are traders who are 100 times better than you and if I was 100% sure that there were traders who are 100 times better than you, I wouldn't care to point it out.

 

At a 30% tax bracket it would take a 37% annually compounded rate of return to have an account worth +- $ 1,000,000 at the end of 20 years if you started with $10,000 today. I did not mean to imply that I thought I could do that in 20 years because I know for a fact that I can’t unless I get incredibly lucky. I simply threw 20 years out there as a large number.

 

And, I apologize for crushing dreams if your dream is to make that type of return. More power to you. Make sure you pay taxes in your dreams too because they will get taken out every year.

 

MM, you don't pay it if you don't make it. Nonetheless, you need to open your brain a bit, there is more to accomplish that what you have set forth in your mind. Just follow along on this journey and perhaps you'll see other ways of accomplishing things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MM, you don't pay it if you don't make it. Nonetheless, you need to open your brain a bit, there is more to accomplish that what you have set forth in your mind. Just follow along on this journey and perhaps you'll see other ways of accomplishing things.

 

We pay taxes on everything we make every year in the USA. There is no avoiding it unless you are very poor.

 

It is crystal clear to me that there are lots of ways to accomplish things. but thanks anyway for your advice and I hope that you and your mind accomplish all that you set out to accomplish and have a good time doing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We pay taxes on everything we make every year in the USA. There is no avoiding it unless you are very poor.

 

It is crystal clear to me that there are lots of ways to accomplish things. but thanks anyway for your advice and I hope that you and your mind accomplish all that you set out to accomplish and have a good time doing it.

 

 

Thanks. Will do. Have fun watching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys, if I am fortunate to turn a dime into a mil, please be quick to to verify my account. Once verified, I want to draw it back down to zero so I don't have to pay taxes. Thanks in advance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
May I ask, MM, what you think is a reasonable profit one might expect from a good trader actively trading a 10K stake over, say a twelve month period? At what point would you consider the gains to be the result of recklessness? Is 50K on a 10K base too much to expect? 20K? 10k? 5K? 2K?

 

I'm not trying to be adversarial. I think this is a fair subject for discussion within this thread - what do folks reading this thread expect, in terms of profit, from their trading. What do you expect from your trading?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

Thales,

 

I have been involved in similar discussions and it ends up with a bunch of name calling and I don't have the energy for it, nor do I want to dirty your tread with it. I have already discussed the need to pay taxes on returns and debated my poor use of "one" when I rightfully should have used "I". However, I trust that you know that the answer to that question depends on a lot of variables that are different for every single trader.

 

I use the word reckless to categorize the behavior that might cause you to blow up your account in a very short period of time.

 

MM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bit of debate about starting account sizes and that some would have preferred larger balances. If the goal was instead a huge % gain on initial stake then the initial account size criteria all changes - just putting that out there in case it wasn't considered (of which I highly doubt from the astute folk here).

 

With kind regards,

MK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bit of debate about starting account sizes and that some would have preferred larger balances. If the goal was instead a huge % gain on initial stake then the initial account size criteria all changes - just putting that out there in case it wasn't considered (of which I highly doubt from the astute folk here).

 

With kind regards,

MK

 

Interesting point. What if the rules next time are to get to 100,000% return, or maybe square an account (i.e. $1,000^2 = $1,000,000)?

 

Personally, I think this will be a good learning experience, both for those participating and those lurking....lol, and it may just become an "I told you so" for those who are not fans...

 

p.s. got my sandbox account opened today and hope to have it funded tomorrow. Will post initial balance asap

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys,

 

I trade the australian markets, and today, i have seen the first sign of strength in a while. Some serious demand came into some of the stop 60 of our markets today, RIO, BHP, NCM, FMG, all showed very strong signs of demand, and often are indicators of market sentiment for the following few days.

 

In my opinion, our markets dont follow the US that strongly, but lately tend to price "ahead" of time, so i would not be suprised if we see some strength in the US tonight. Looks to me like this may be the spring in another possibly very little profitable short term move. :2c:

 

I think i may be the only one in this competition trading stocks?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Thalestrader,

 

This is an absolutely fantastic idea for a thread and I would love to participate.

 

I am starting a new spread betting account for the purposes. I will put just enough in to cover margin for the first trade I am going to take. As soon as I have found a setup and deposited the money, I will post a screenshot on here.

 

Thanks again for this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Thalestrader,

 

This is an absolutely fantastic idea for a thread and I would love to participate.

 

I am starting a new spread betting account for the purposes. I will put just enough in to cover margin for the first trade I am going to take. As soon as I have found a setup and deposited the money, I will post a screenshot on here.

 

Thanks again for this.

 

I'm very happy to have you aboard, Trader Dante. I recall your journal at T2W from some years back where you were trading a small spread betting account, and I look forward to watching you do it here at TL. Welcome to The Race, and I hope you hit the million!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My statement for yesterday will be late today as I am going golfing, though like I mentioned already I had lost 18 points on the Aussie. This morning was a bit worse with a 28 point loss on the Euro. My system said long, so I went long into a sinking market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm very happy to have you aboard, Trader Dante. I recall your journal at T2W from some years back where you were trading a small spread betting account, and I look forward to watching you do it here at TL. Welcome to The Race, and I hope you hit the million!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

I would second that. Another strong contender is my hunch!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm considering to open an account with a broker who can offer a 1:500 leverage or more.

 

I'm a pure scalper and when try to hold positions i mostly get stopped out.

 

Haven't done significant progress since the start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bit of debate about starting account sizes and that some would have preferred larger balances. If the goal was instead a huge % gain on initial stake then the initial account size criteria all changes - just putting that out there in case it wasn't considered (of which I highly doubt from the astute folk here).

 

With kind regards,

MK

 

I have opened an account with MB Trading and will probably fund it with 3k during next week. I may switch to trading that account for the balance of "The Race". My initial small account certainly does put me in a bit of "catch up" mode to get to the starting capital of the rest of the racers....

 

Cheers,

fxT

Edited by fxThunder
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... If the goal was instead a huge % gain on initial stake then the initial account size criteria all changes...

 

If it were a % gain on initial stake contest, I'd stand down and have my daughter trade another microlot account.

 

I really didn't give this much thought, as The Race was my response to sicktrader's "1k to 1,000,000" phrasing in the "let's Trade" thread. I wanted to keep it close to 1K. In future iterations of The Race, I'd be open to allowing different equity levels depending upon the trader's chosen market and style, e.g. 3K for futures day traders, 10K for futures swing traders, 25k for stock day traders, and 50K for stock swing traders. Off of the top of my head, each of those amounts would control a similar notional value of securities/ instruments (give or take, folks, give or take).

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 8th April 2025.   Markets Rebound Cautiously as US-China Tariff Tensions Deepen     Global markets staged a tentative recovery on Tuesday following a wave of volatility sparked by escalating trade tensions between the United States and China. The Asia-Pacific region showed signs of stability after a chaotic start to the week—though some pockets remained under pressure. Taiwan’s Taiex dropped 4.4%, dragged lower by losses in tech heavyweight TSMC. The world’s largest chipmaker fell another 4% on Tuesday and has now slumped 13.5% since April 2, when US President Donald Trump first unveiled what he called ‘Liberation Day’ tariffs.   However, broader sentiment across the region turned more positive, with several markets rebounding sharply after Monday’s dramatic sell-offs. Japan’s Nikkei 225 surged over 6% in early trading, rebounding from an 18-month low. South Korea’s Kospi rose marginally, and Australia’s ASX 200 gained 1.9%, driven by strength in mining stocks. Hong Kong’s Hang Seng rose 1.6%, though still far from recovering from Monday’s 13.2% crash—its worst day since the 1997 Asian financial crisis. China’s Shanghai Composite added 0.9%.   In Europe, DAX and FTSE 100 are up more than 1% in opening trade. EU Commission President von der Leyen repeated yesterday that the EU had offered reciprocal zero tariffs on manufactured goods previously and continues to stand by that offer. Others are also trying again to talk to Trump to get some sort of agreement that limits the impact.   Much of the rally appeared to be driven by dip-buying, as well as hopes that the intensifying trade war could still be defused through negotiations.   China Strikes Back: ‘We Will Fight to the End’   Tensions reached a boiling point after Trump threatened to impose an additional 50% tariff on all Chinese imports unless Beijing rolled back its retaliatory measures by April 8. ‘If China does not withdraw its 34% increase above their already long-term trading abuses by tomorrow... the United States will impose additional tariffs on China of 50%,’ Trump declared on social media.   If implemented, the new tariffs would bring total US duties on Chinese goods to a staggering 124%, factoring in the existing 20%, the 34% recently announced, and the proposed 50%.   In response, China’s Ministry of Commerce issued a stern warning, stating: ‘The US threat to escalate tariffs is a mistake on top of a mistake... If the US insists on its own way, China will fight to the end.’ The ministry also called for equal and respectful dialogue, though signs of compromise on either side remain scarce.   Beijing acted quickly to contain a market fallout. State funds intervened to support equities, and the People’s Bank of China set the yuan fixing at its weakest level since September 2023 to boost export competitiveness. Additionally, five-year interest rate swaps in China fell to their lowest levels since 2020, indicating potential for further monetary easing.   Trump Talks Tough on EU Too   Trump’s hardline approach extended beyond China. Speaking at a press conference, he rejected the European Union’s offer to eliminate tariffs on cars and industrial goods, accusing the bloc of ‘being very bad to us.’ He insisted that Europe would need to source its energy from the US, claiming the US could ‘knock off $350 billion in one week.’   The EU, meanwhile, backed away from a proposed 50% retaliatory tariff on American whiskey, opting instead for 25% duties on selected US goods in response to Trump’s steel and aluminium tariffs.     Volatile Wall Street Adds to the Drama   Wall Street experienced wild swings on Monday as investors processed the rapidly evolving trade conflict. The S&P 500 briefly fell 4.7% before rebounding 3.4%, nearly erasing its losses in what could have been its biggest one-day jump in years—if it had held. The Dow Jones Industrial Average sank by as much as 1,700 points early in the day but later climbed nearly 900 points before closing 349 points lower, down 0.9%. The Nasdaq ended up 0.1%.   The brief rally was fueled by a false rumour that Trump was considering a 90-day pause on tariffs—rumours that the White House quickly labelled ‘fake news.’ The market's sharp reaction underscored how desperate investors are for any sign that tensions might ease.   Oil Markets in Focus: Goldman Sachs Revises Forecasts   Crude prices also reflected the uncertainty, with US crude briefly dipping below $60 per barrel for the first time since 2021. As of early Tuesday, Brent crude was trading at $64.72, while WTI hovered around $61.26.   Goldman Sachs, in a note dated April 7, lowered its average price forecasts for Brent and WTI through 2025 and 2026, citing mounting recession risks and the potential for higher-than-expected supply from OPEC+.       Under a base-case scenario where the US avoids a recession and tariffs are reduced significantly before the April 9 implementation date, Goldman sees Brent at $62 per barrel and WTI at $58 by December 2025. These figures fall further to $55 and $51, respectively, by the end of 2026. This outlook also assumes moderate output increases from eight OPEC+ countries, with incremental boosts of 130,000–140,000 barrels per day in June and July.   However, should the US slip into a typical recession and OPEC production aligns with the bank’s baseline assumptions, Brent could retreat to $58 by the end of this year and to $50 by December 2026.   In a more bearish scenario involving a global GDP slowdown and no change to OPEC+ output levels, Brent prices might fall to $54 by year-end and $45 by late 2026. The most extreme projection—based on a simultaneous economic downturn and a full reversal of OPEC+ production cuts—would see Brent plunge to below $40 per barrel by the end of 2026.   Goldman noted that oil prices could outperform forecasts significantly if there was a dramatic shift in tariff policy and a surprise in global demand recovery.   Cautious Optimism, But Warnings Persist   With both Washington and Beijing showing no signs of backing down, markets are likely to remain volatile in the days ahead. Investors now turn their attention to upcoming trade meetings and policy decisions, hoping for clarity in what has become one of the most unpredictable trading environments in recent years.   Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Andria Pichidi HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • CVNA Carvana stock watch, rebound to 166.56 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
    • CVNA Carvana stock watch, rebound to 166.56 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
    • CVNA Carvana stock watch, rebound to 166.56 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
    • CVNA Carvana stock watch, rebound to 166.56 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.