The Race

[thalestrader 14]

... So many different random moves are thrown out there to soften you up. I am in the paranoid "the market's out to get me stage"...

 

"The stock market is neither efficient nor random. It is not efficient because there are too many poorly conceived opinions; it is not random because strong investor emotions can create trends." William J. O'Neil in his Market Wizards by Jack Schwager interview.

 

 

"The market does not beat them. They beat themselves," and "t is literally true that millions come easier to a trader after he knows how to trade than hundreds did in the days of his ignorance." Reminiscences of a Stock Operator.

 

The market isn't out to get you Attila - You are! But I can tell from your post that you are already aware of that fact, so you have it within you to right the ship.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[MightyMouse 12]

Gaps everyday.. not easy for me to deal with.. The goal of this market is to break you down.. then take your account. Working so far. If you don't have and stick to (including leaving when they are not playing your game) a VERY well defined action plan you repeat like the sun rises day-in-day-out you (I) are toast. So many different random moves are thrown out there to soften you up. I am in the paranoid "the market's out to get me stage"...

 

Another nice wedge broken in the overnight session which is frequently more organized lately..

 

One can pick it up from your recent posts that you have changed.

 

You have become accustomed to walking into the school yard and expecting the bully to steal your lunch money. You have to break that pattern.

 

Either that or I would recommend that you line the walls, floor, ceiling, windows, and doors with foil and trade with the lights dimmed. That usually will keep "Them" from being out to get you.

[SIUYA 11]

Or remember that no one style works or the time but that consistency on a well researched theory/model/style that has an edge should win over the long term......

there are plenty of so called professionals and experts getting chopped up at the moment.

Short term survival sometimes is the best form of long term survival.

[Attila 10]

Statement for 08/13... 3 digits!

 

Had a sweet 8pt short to open the day but that wasn't enough action for me. Trading definitely will make you find out who or what you are as well as what you do it for.

 

Thanks for the helpful comments (especially Mightymouse..<gg>).. Solution simple and complicated at the same time. At this point the "want to" save the situation the question mark in my head as it is surely looking like a subconscious intentional tank. Why else would I have not called the daily loss limit in to my broker.

 

Paradoxically I need to think of the account's demise as a non-event to lessen the crazy in-trade anxiety I have developed which is at the root of this dive. A condensed version of "The Anatomy of a Blowup" for sure...

 

Next week need to decide to fight or...

[Attila 10]

Statement for 08/16... Slip Sliding away....

[Attila 10]

I think I will DELETE all price levels from my charts... They have no meaning whatsoever! (Of course I am biased, standing in front of a train with a microscopic account) 1837, 1845, 1850.. etc. They simply tempt me into not waiting for reversals! That said, Daily NDX a sweet looking LONG.

[Attila 10]

Statement for 08/17

 

Sometimes you just want to swear at the markets.. What was that run all for? I could write a book on all the things to avoid doing in the markets, including.. "When a US index market is persistent in one direction in the morning, those with their foot on the gas USUALLY don't stop until lunch time or later.." Soooo if you are daft enough not to obediently follow this group, at least stand aside till they are done, and MAYBE the afternoon shift will reverse the thing, if at all. Which is the script that was used yesterday.

 

Something in me, subconsciously wants nothing to do with "social long gains", the only explanation I can imagine for so completely refusing profits on the long side.. a Long around 1839.75.. what did I do? Looked back on the Hourly to find a high at 1842 that I decided was the top so I sold for a point and change.. THEN shorted 1847.75.. Helloooo!! I have complicated something so simple. My son occasionally walks in and says... soooo Dad.. you bought there when it was going up right?.. I have stopped answering him.

 

Anyway, this is the Kill Bill Scene... in the Casket... I can hear the dirt hitting the top while I worry about a 35 pip M6E 1 contract stop.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Attila

[brownsfan019 17]

Attila - I am an occasional lurker to your thread and I think it's great that really document the struggles in the day-to-day of this business. That is exactly what I was doing in the p/l threads and I can tell you that it does help long-term, even if you think no one else is gaining from this experience. And honestly it's not about anyone else so just keep doing your thing.

 

BTW - have you won the ipad yet? I don't recall when that officially ends.

[Attila 10]

brownsfan,

 

Thanks for the support.. Ipad?? The only sort of pad I need now is to collect brownstuff.. <gg> getting delirious..

[brownsfan019 17]

brownsfan,

 

Thanks for the support.. Ipad?? The only sort of pad I need now is to collect brownstuff.. <gg> getting delirious..

 

Wasn't there some prize or something for the winner at the end? You are obviously last man standing, so was just wondering if you collected your prize.

 

here's the link about it.

[Attila 10]

Wasn't there some prize or something for the winner at the end? You are obviously last man standing, so was just wondering if you collected your prize.

 

here's the link about it.

 

No Ipad here.. I guess you can add 20 weeks to the date of that link?.. If something happened to me between now and then, I will understand as I am barely worthy in my current guise. Would be a pleasant surprise though.. love my Iphone 4.

 

That the ability to stay above zero is the high mark speaks a lot to the difficulty of trading, especially a small account, in public for a nearly impossible goal. An very interesting race would be one that rewards process rather than results.. reward a kid for studying and doing his homework and the grade will take care of itself.. For me it would be for trades allowed to stop out or last at least 20 minutes....

 

Statement for 08/18.. Funny how I ignored 8 point profits just last week and now I grad 2 points happily. Lesson from markets: Until you learn to be happy with a little, you are not getting a lot,....

[brownsfan019 17]

No Ipad here.. I guess you can add 20 weeks to the date of that link?.. If something happened to me between now and then, I will understand as I am barely worthy in my current guise. Would be a pleasant surprise though.. love my Iphone 4.

 

I did not re-read the terms but if you are the winner, pay the man! Winner winner chicken dinner!

 

That the ability to stay above zero is the high mark speaks a lot to the difficulty of trading, especially a small account, in public for a nearly impossible goal. An very interesting race would be one that rewards process rather than results.. reward a kid for studying and doing his homework and the grade will take care of itself.. For me it would be for trades allowed to stop out or last at least 20 minutes....

 

Statement for 08/18.. Funny how I ignored 8 point profits just last week and now I grad 2 points happily. Lesson from markets: Until you learn to be happy with a little, you are not getting a lot,....

 

And therein lies the battle we have in trading IMO - sometimes you will nail the LOD or HOD and sit back and say - shoulda held all day long. Other days if you don't take what was available, you will sit back and say - what a retard I am.

 

This is why I think trading is so difficult. There are 3 outcomes when you place a trade and 2 of them work against you:

 

1) Quick stop out (you were obviously wrong)

2) A 'winner' becomes a loser (you got greedy)

3) You book a profit (congrats)

 

So much is made of stats and what not in this business but at 415pm EST the ONLY thing that matters is whether there is a inflow of $ to you or outflow of $ to others.

[macdfx 10]

There are 3 outcomes when you place a trade and 2 of them work against you:

 

1) Quick stop out (you were obviously wrong)

2) A 'winner' becomes a loser (you got greedy)

3) You book a profit (congrats)

 

3a) You take profits too early, at the first possible opportunity, and watch your trade go on to hit your original target.

[Attila 10]

This explains scalpers, which I have always thought were insane (still do, but less so), looking for the most consistently reliable part of the market, the smallest bit. Supposedly little nibbles can be taken from a monster undetected. The bigger chunks tend to be redefined frequently (volatility) so endless guessing results. All applies to the tiny account only as larger accounts (stops on multiple units at prior day high/lows result in less that 2% acct loss) can simply swing trade, which is where I think the more reliable money is.

[SIUYA 11]

If you view intraday trading as the market in fast forward, then it makes sense to take lots of small chunks, as you are basically looking for a continuous series of small profitable opportunities.

It does not matter which style you take so long as you are consistent. Its the chopping and changing that seems to do the damage.

[Attila 10]

Statement for 08/20

 

Days like yesterday were made for me, and not a day too soon. As for today coming up?? The markets have trained me to expect what I don't expect, therefore I so I'll try to expect nothing.. gibberish..

[Attila 10]

If you view intraday trading as the market in fast forward, then it makes sense to take lots of small chunks

 

Very useful.. thanks

[brownsfan019 17]

If you view intraday trading as the market in fast forward, then it makes sense to take lots of small chunks, as you are basically looking for a continuous series of small profitable opportunities.

It does not matter which style you take so long as you are consistent. Its the chopping and changing that seems to do the damage.

 

Once I gave up trying to hit that homerun, my equity curve got much smoother. Yes, I routinely sell the HOD or buy the LOD in hindsight, but I also buy many 'fakes' at these levels where taking a modest profit does make money vs. swinging for the fences.

 

I hate baseball, but it's great for analogies - I am trying to hit singles all day long over and over. A double could happen when I catch a lucky break on a big move while in a trade but more often than not just trying to get to first base and repeat process.

[SIUYA 11]

Bf - I know very little about baseball but the home run analogy sort of works except that the most you can gain from a home run is (loaded bases ) 4 (?).....

 

Its something that I have been working on lately and slowly coming to the conclusion (at least for me) while the singles and the occasional home run does work. It also provides a living

Going for just home runs is tough work.

 

Alternatively the other option is change the sport and go for the home run whereby the ball is never ever found again..... that is where the upside is really unlimited. I cant think of a good sport analogy for this (maybe baseball in outer-space). This is then where the payoff for a lot of scratch/Break even trades works. No R:R of 1:4 etc, but 1:1000. This is more suited to the retirement fund. (The millipede that Daedelus found - in rethinking concepts - thankyou to him)

 

Its the in between phase that is tough. It causes inconsistencies and doubt. Its like the swapping and switching between styles that many people do.... puts a better perspective on "you need commitment, and focus".... not just to trading but to a style.

Edited August 20, 2010 by SIUYA

[brownsfan019 17]

Bf - I know very little about baseball but the home run analogy sort of works except that the most you can gain from a home run is (loaded bases ) 4 (?).....

 

Its something that I have been working on lately and slowly coming to the conclusion (at least for me) while the singles and the occasional home run does work. It also provides a living

Going for just home runs is tough work.

 

Alternatively the other option is change the sport and go for the home run whereby the ball is never ever found again..... that is where the upside is really unlimited. I cant think of a good sport analogy for this (maybe baseball in outer-space). This is then where the payoff for a lot of scratch/Break even trades works. No R:R of 1:4 etc, but 1:1000. This is more suited to the retirement fund. (The millipede that Daedelus found - in rethinking concepts - thankyou to him)

 

Its the in between phase that is tough. It causes inconsistencies and doubt. Its like the swapping and switching between styles that many people do.... puts a better perspective on "you need commitment, and focus".... not just to trading but to a style.

 

Home-run = you score right away in baseball

Single = you get to the first base but still have to go to 2nd, 3rd and home plate to score

 

In trading getting that single for me just means taking a realistic profit when it's there and then try to do it again when the opportunity presents itself.

 

I also think that if you are doing this for your living, then taking those singles is imperative. If you are doing this as a hobby or some other type of account (retirement as you mentioned) then you can swing for the fences and try to catch a multi-year bull or bear run for sure. But if you are trying to pay the bills and create some immediate income from this, those singles can add up nicely.

[macdfx 10]

Bf - I know very little about baseball but the home run analogy sort of works except that the most you can gain from a home run is (loaded bases ) 4 (?).....

 

Think of it like "swinging for sixes" in cricket then..:

 

Comparison between cricket and baseball - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[MightyMouse 12]

Novice traders go broke by taking big losses. Professionals go broke by taking small profits.

[Attila 10]

Novice traders go broke by taking big losses. Professionals go broke by taking small profits.

 

 

Not good as I am a Novice Professional, doing both!

 

Regarding Home runs or Singles.. Seeking Home runs only a sign of laziness in trading seeing singles as too much work. The ideal system I think always keeps a small position that hopefully scratches most of the time with the goal of the home run while grinding the singles.

 

Most articles of successful short-term traders all say the same though.. It is a job and they work for singles all day. Most trader don't see trading as an all day job.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Attila

[brownsfan019 17]

Novice traders go broke by taking big losses. Professionals go broke by taking small profits.

 

That's an interesting comment MM.

 

And that's the beauty of trading - many ways to make money and even more to lose it in this business. To each his own.

[MightyMouse 12]

That's an interesting comment MM.

 

And that's the beauty of trading - many ways to make money and even more to lose it in this business. To each his own.

 

I am not keen enough to think that up. I read it either in " Market Wizards" or some other source of wisdom superior to mine. But, you can argue that their wisdom was only wisdom during the time and place they were trading and if you do argue that, you won't get an argument from me.