Let's Trade (Volume V)

[sicktrader 10]

There seem to be a number of helpful people on this forum, something you don't see everywhere. To make a long story short, I decided to start a journal here at TL, though I probably won't enter a trade until sometime early Tuesday morning. I am sure that some have known my methods from across the street, others have not. This will be an eye opener on money management for many. For, me, it will give me something to do in the middle of the night while I am trading.

 

I will turn $1,000 into $1,000,000 in 20 weeks. Actually I should get it done in 10-15 weeks, but I'll give myself some extra time. I believe that across the street I used the S&P, here I will do currencies. Nonetheless I hope to show that it is not the system that brings profits, but money management. I have done this many times in real life, a few times on trading and gambling forums. I do not reach my goal within the time frame every time, but certainly the majority of times.

 

I will not give away my exact system, but the system is not really the point. Many of you have systems that are more profitable that this one, which should help you in the long run.

 

I hope this journal will be helpful, and if not, then it should certainly be entertaining. I will trade the currencies based on news events, and will trade most currencies. Unfortunately most of my trades will be between 8:00 pm and 10:00 am EST. All trades will be called live.

 

Let's have fun.

[boru 10]

Looking forward to your thread sicktrader I know money management is one area I could use some help in Bo

[MidKnight 12]

Looking forward to it. Money management and trade management is where nearly all my effort goes these days....

[sicktrader 10]

Thanks. Not a big deal but I just looked at my margins and I have $900 for the Euro and Yen, so I'll start with somewhere around $1,250 to sustain a loser or two. I will post up more cash if needed in the event that I start off with three losers in a row, but it won't delay the goal.

[thalestrader 14]

How's that million coming along?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[sicktrader 10]

Ha. Decided not to do it this week. Too bad though, was a better than average week.

[thalestrader 14]

This is the fifth or sixth time you've threatened to wow the world with your MM prowess (though this is the first time here at TL). If you're going to do it, let's do it.

 

I have a proposal: I have a little play account I use when I am trying out a new instrument or otherwise playing around (My friends and I call such accounts our "sandboxes." It has $1100-$1200 or so in it (I get a statement every day but I haven't used the account in a while, so I reflexively delete the daily statements and I am unsure of the exact balance.) At any rate, it is set up to trade two lots currently. If you're going to trade, let me know, and I'll race to you a million. Here's how we do it:

 

1) I don't care about real time calls - just post a copy of our daily equity runs with our names and identifying numbers painted out. I get the run from that particular account every AM, so I'll post it in the morning to show trades, entries, commission & fees, pnl, and equity balance as of the close of business the day before. Your post must show entries, exits, commissions, fees, etc. as well as closed equity.

 

2) If one of us doesn't trade on a particular day, he (or she, if others choose to join in), must still post the equity run showing no trades. Even if one of us takes a week off, the equity run showing matching equity from close of last trades must be posted on a resumption of trading.

 

3) If it is known that you will be unable to trade, then that should be posted in the thread with an expected return date. For example, it is highly likely that I will not be trading at all the first week of May. If that does turn out to be the case, I will post that here. The race doesn't stop just because I am not trading or you are not trading on a particular day. It just prevents one of us from dropping out without giving the other the courtesy of a public notice.

 

4) Trade any instrument we wish. I'll trade the ES and 6E, though I will reserve the right to trade 6B and 6J as well. You can trade anything you'd like.

 

4) This race is open to anyone here at TL so long as one abides by the above rules concerning posting of trades/equity. This must be done with a small starting capital. Let's say a capital of 3K or less. We are judged not by % gain but by nominal $$'s, so starting capital should be 1-3K.

 

I have to be in NYC on Monday, so I will start trading this account on Tuesday. Tuesday morning, if you are in, we each post a screen shot showing our starting equity. I'll trade the ES and 6E, though I will reserve the right to trade 6B and 6J as well. As I mentioned, you can trade anything you like.

 

Furthermore, as I have a slightly better track record of maintaining a thread, so if you decide to take up the race, I will start a new thread Monday evening with the ground rules spelled out in post #1. We should debate those rules here in this thread over the coming days if you find it necessary. On Tuesday morning, anyone who is in the race must post his or her equity run prior to 9:30 AM EDT in that thread.

 

 

So what do you say, are you in, or are you all talk?

 

Anyone else interested in participating, raise your hand by letting us know here in this thread. Remember, you must be trading a real, live money account with a starting equity of 3K or less.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[Cory2679 11]

I can't wait to see this unfold!

 

:cinema::cinema::cinema:

[sicktrader 10]

This is the fifth or sixth time you've threatened to wow the world with your MM prowess (though this is the first time here at TL). If you're going to do it, let's do it.

 

I have a proposal: I have a little play account I use when I am trying out a new instrument or otherwise playing around (My friends and I call such accounts our "sandboxes." It has $1100-$1200 or so in it (I get a statement every day but I haven't used the account in a while, so I reflexively delete the daily statements and I am unsure of the exact balance.) At any rate, it is set up to trade two lots currently. If you're going to trade, let me know, and I'll race to you a million. Here's how we do it:

 

1) I don't care about real time calls - just post a copy of our daily equity runs with our names and identifying numbers painted out. I get the run from that particular account every AM, so I'll post it in the morning to show trades, entries, commission & fees, pnl, and equity balance as of the close of business the day before. Your post must show entries, exits, commissions, fees, etc. as well as closed equity.

 

2) If one of us doesn't trade on a particular day, he (or she, if others choose to join in), must still post the equity run showing no trades. Even if one of us takes a week off, the equity run showing matching equity from close of last trades must be posted on a resumption of trading.

 

3) If it is known that you will be unable to trade, then that should be posted in the thread with an expected return date. For example, it is highly likely that I will not be trading at all the first week of May. If that does turn out to be the case, I will post that here. The race doesn't stop just because I am not trading or you are not trading on a particular day. It just prevents one of us from dropping out without giving the other the courtesy of a public notice.

 

4) Trade any instrument we wish. I'll trade the ES and 6E, though I will reserve the right to trade 6B and 6J as well. You can trade anything you'd like.

 

4) This race is open to anyone here at TL so long as one abides by the above rules concerning posting of trades/equity. This must be done with a small starting capital. Let's say a capital of 3K or less. We are judged not by % gain but by nominal $$'s, so starting capital should be 1-3K.

 

I have to be in NYC on Monday, so I will start trading this account on Tuesday. Tuesday morning, if you are in, we each post a screen shot showing our starting equity. I'll trade the ES and 6E, though I will reserve the right to trade 6B and 6J as well. As I mentioned, you can trade anything you like.

 

Furthermore, as I have a slightly better track record of maintaining a thread, so if you decide to take up the race, I will start a new thread Monday evening with the ground rules spelled out in post #1. We should debate those rules here in this thread over the coming days if you find it necessary. On Tuesday morning, anyone who is in the race must post his or her equity run prior to 9:30 AM EDT in that thread.

 

 

So what do you say, are you in, or are you all talk?

 

Anyone else interested in participating, raise your hand by letting us know here in this thread. Remember, you must be trading a real, live money account with a starting equity of 3K or less.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

 

 

Count me in. I have a few "sandbox" accounts as well, think one has about 1k in it, so on that end i am ready to go. My only requirement is that since i have a $900 margin on the Euro and Yen, I reserve the right to post up more cash if I go below margin out of the shoot. Actually, I just checked and I have $941 in the account that I'll be using, so that's what I'll start with, which means if I start on a bad streak I could post up to 3k-941= $2059, but no more. Should be fun, see you at the finish.

 

[sicktrader 10]

I have to be in NYC on Monday, so I will start trading this account on Tuesday. Tuesday morning, if you are in, we each post a screen shot showing our starting equity.

 

 

I'll be out on Monday as well, so if no other traders then we can start Tuesday.

[thalestrader 14]

... My only requirement is that since i have a $900 margin on the Euro and Yen, I reserve the right to post up more cash if I go below margin out of the shoot. Actually, I just checked and I have $941 in the account that I'll be using, so that's what I'll start with, which means if I start on a bad streak I could post up to 3k-941= $2059, but no more. Should be fun, see you at the finish.

 

Yes. One of the ground rules will be that if the account falls below the required margin to trade a one lot with your broker of choice, the trader may post another grubstake so long as the equity with the fresh deposit does not exceed 3K. In other words, if you or I or anyone else participating blows up, he does not have to leave the race. He just needs a new pair of running shoes to get back in. I'm not sure what my balance is in the account I intend to use, and I had already deleted the daily statement before I had this bright idea, so I won't know what I am starting with until tomorrow morning when I get a new equity run. As we are both starting close to the edge, I imagine one or both may have to post more cash at some point early on to keep the game alive in the early going.

 

I'll be out on Monday as well, so if no other traders then we can start Tuesday.

 

Sounds good. I hope we get some others on board. Also, I propose we allow others to join in whenever one wishes to do so. This way folks who'd like to play along but don't already have a small account can go ahead and open a sandbox account and join in when they do get such an account opened and funded.

 

I would love to have one of the JHM traders participate (and I mean this seriously and with all due respect). Perhaps Mr Black would like to join us?

 

By the way, this is open to anyone regardless of instrument. So spot forex traders are welcome as well. The only limits are as follows: starting capital must exceed the minimum amount necessary to trade, starting capital must not exceed $3K (and that can be any denomination, USD, EUR, GBP, etc. and so on - I guess we'd have to make an allowance for peso and Yen denominated accounts), and this must be a live, real money account.

 

Also, this is open to any approach, method, system, and no one is required to divulge anything about his or her method, though explanations are also welcome.

 

I'll put together a rough draft of the ground rules tomorrow, and I will post them here by Sunday evening.

 

... Should be fun...

 

If it isn't fun, it won't be worth doing. I do hope some others will join in, and if not, I hope everyone views it in the spirit in which it is conceived.

 

This is not about "having something to prove" or "my way is better than your way." This is like NASCAR - watching the cars go 'round and 'round is nice and all, but in reality, we just want to see the next wreck!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[sicktrader 10]

Had one other thought. I believe what should be counted is "cashed out" funds not necessarily seeing the total mil in the account at the end, though that's fine too. The cash out should be called days in advance. Not a big deal either way, but might suit more money management styles. Also, I don't care about the time, think more people would enjoy just seeing it being acomplished no matter how long it takes.

Edited April 23, 2010 by sicktrader

[sicktrader 10]

This is the fifth or sixth time you've threatened to wow the world with your MM prowess (though this is the first time here at TL). If you're going to do it, let's do it.

 

 

As one final note for the evening, I have done this 4 out of ten times. That being reaching the mil in my time frame. All but one have been done at gambling forums. Those threads from across the street I count as one since my posting ability had been taken away due to language that was in the gutter. This is a more refined audience, so I will try to mainain a suitable composure. I could enhance the new members to this site by announcing this event to my gambling forums, but in all honesty, the language and imagination they would provide would drastically change this site. Maybe later on.

[mike21 10]

I have done this 4 out of ten times. That being reaching the mil in my time frame. All but one have been done at gambling forums.

 

 

Which gambling forums?

[MidKnight 12]

Following along closely guys. I'll be very keen to see if you guys employ similar trade mgmt / money mgmt approaches.

 

With kind regards,

MK

[thalestrader 14]

I propose the following Ground Rules for The Race.

 

 

 

 

The Race

 

Objective: To be the first participant to trade a small account to one million dollars USD in profits, including closed and open trade equity as well as cashed out funds, or at least to have a load of fun trying!

Ground Rules:

 

A. Accounting

1) Starting balance of trading account is not to exceed $3000.

 

a. Deposits are allowed at any time, either to replenish a blown account, or to allow additional margin, so long as the deposit does not result in an account balance greater than $3000.

 

b. No deposits are allowed if equity exceeds $3000.

 

2) Withdrawals are allowed. Notice of a withdrawal request to your broker should be posted to The Race thread on the day you make the withdrawal request.

3) Participants must post daily screen shots of his or her daily equity run by 9:30 AM EDT, unless the equity run has not been received, or if there has been no change in positions or equity since the previously reported closing equity. If the equity run has not been received from your broker by 9:30 AM, it should be posted as soon as possible after it is received. Again, this is only required when there has been a change to the previously reported closing equity.

 

4) I will post a weekly summary of each participant's performance both for the week and from the beginning of each trader's individual participation in The Race.

 

a. This summary will be in terms of nominal dollars profit and loss. This is not a percent return race, but an accumulated profit race.

 

b. This summary will include both closed trade equity, open trade equity, and cashed out profits, if any.

 

5) The Race is open to new participants at any time. The only requirement for participation is a live, real money trading account of $3000 or less starting equity, and a willingness to post a daily equity run. A trade blotter is not sufficient. Your post must show instrument(s) traded, entry price, exit price, commissions, fees, etc. as well as closed equity and open trade equity.

 

B. Trading

 

1) Real time calls are not necessary - just post a copy of the daily equity runs with your name and account numbers painted out.

 

2)The Race is open to all trading styles - day traders, swing traders, scalpers, position traders.

 

3) Any freely traded liquid instrument is allowed - futures, spot forex, stocks, bonds, options. The Race can accommodate the $25 microlot account holder, a $1000 futures account holder, as well as a $3000 cash or margin stock account holder.

 

4) As this is open to all trading styles, there is no requirement that a trader place a trade every day, every week, or even every month for that matter. The only requirement is that a daily equity run be posted whenever there has been a change in equity from the previously reported closing equity.

 

5) No trader is required or expected to divulge anything more of his or her trading system, method, approach, etc. than what he or she wishes to divulge. The trader can tell all, or tell nothing.

 

6) If it is known that you will be unable to trade for a period of time, then that should be posted in The Race thread with an expected return date. The race doesn't stop just because one or more participants is unable to trade for a period of time. The notice is requested simply because it prevents anyone of us from dropping out of The Race without giving the other the courtesy of a public notice.

7) The initial period of The Race will be twenty weeks starting with the week of 4/26/2010. At the end of 20 weeks, the remaining participants, should any still be standing, will decide whether or not they wish to extend The Race.

 

Fair enough?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[sicktrader 10]

Looks good to me. Would be nice to get a few more traders to the mix.

 

I would propose if someone does reach the mil mark, the he/she donates 50K to TL for a TL bash in Vegas. Hopefully some of the sponsers here will contribute, and everyone here could have a fun few days and possibly learn a thing or two along the way. Would also say that that those participating in this, no matter how early their exit, would have more applied to their bill. If TL and/or its sponsers opt not to participate, than the winner can use the 50k to plan the party as he/she sees fit.

 

Let's race.

Edited April 24, 2010 by sicktrader

[sicktrader 10]

If any here visits the site across the street with the inporportionate number of blowhards, please invite them. My posting abilities there have been nixed, as well as my interest in the site. Thanks in advance.

 

PS: I have been trying to contact Brownsfan but to no reponse, if anyone knows his number please contact him as I know he would want to participate.

Edited April 25, 2010 by sicktrader

[thalestrader 14]

If any here visits the site across the street with the disproportionate number of blowhards, please invite them. My posting abilities there have been nixed, as well as my interest in the site. Thanks in advance.

 

I suspect that the last thing anyone here at TL would want to do is to "invite" a bunch of ET idiots over here. It is unfortunate enough that a stray ET-type wanders in from time to time - no need to invite them en masse.

 

You see, sick, the difference between ET and TL is easily seen from the different responses to your threads here compared to there. Over there, you would post your intent to wow the world with your money management style, and within two or three days there would be 80 pages filled with posts from the usual bitter failures telling you why it couldn't be done, and you responding with your (for the most part inappropriate) emoticons. I do not recall if you ever actually posted more than a handful of trades spread out over four threads before you disappeared.

 

Compare that to the response here at TL. You posted your intent to shw us your MM style, you had three or four positive responses, and then nothing but crickets as you failed to show at the time appointed by you yourself. Unlike ET, TL is very much a "put up or shut up" forum, where you can choose either to follow through or not, but no one is going to hound you for trying, at least not publicly in the thread. You will get a handful of fools who have no problem sending you a PM calling you a fraud or a liar or a "photoshopper." But even those fools know that James will quickly toss them and their IP from the forum if they spout off in the threads publicly.

 

I do not frequent ET very often. I only came to know of your threads last summer because my currency trading friend does read ET. He and I both started futures trading with very small accounts many years ago, so your subject had a rather nostalgic appeal to both of us. You also mentioned that you had taught your young daughter to trade. At the time, I was in the early stages of doing the same with my daughter. It was that fact that prompted my friend to email the link to your thread. Of course, your efforts there never really began and your threads just became typical "1K to 1 Million" fodder for the ET idiots.

 

So here is your chance. You will find few idiots here. Our little race may offer a few of those who participate in the TL live chat a target for ridicule and amusement, but their disdain, such as it is, will likely remain in the chat room, and possibly spill a bit into our PM in-boxes; but for the most part, I expect that the thread for The Race will stay relatively clean, calm, and respectful. So, if you were hoping for an ET-like atmosphere filled with the putrid bitterness of failure and stupidity to which you could respond in your ET clown-like manner with pornographic emoticons, you will be disappointed.

 

Also, for the record, my daughter is ten, and I let her read the Reading Charts in Real Time thread here at TL. I would like to allow her to read The Race thread a well. So let's keep our posts there clean enough for a ten year old girl to read, and if you are compelled to post emoticons, limit yourself to those offered by TL (except for the "WTF" emoticon as there should be no need of that one).

 

And let's hope that few ET'ers show up here, rather than wishing them in.

 

If you are here to trade, then let's trade.

 

I'm here to have fun. Trading, for me, is great fun. ET is no fun at all. So let's have fun, Let's trade.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

Edited April 25, 2010 by thalestrader
missing word

[thalestrader 14]

PS: I have been trying to contact Brownsfan but to no response, if anyone knows his number please contact him as I know he would want to participate.

 

I'd like to see Brownie join in as well.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[thalestrader 14]

I would propose if someone does reach the mil mark, the he/she donates 50K to TL for a TL bash in Vegas.... If TL and/or its sponsers opt not to participate, than the winner can use the 50k to plan the party as he/she sees fit.

 

Not for nothing, but in the unlikely event that I somehow trade my little sand box account to 1 Mil in the next 20 weeks, using it to fund a trip to Vegas seems to me more punishment than reward.

 

I'd prefer to make a large charitable donation to the Allentown Ecumenical Food Bank, though I'd also be willing to fly the participants of The Race (and a few other select TL members) in to NYC for a few days of fun.

 

So how about we just say that if someone does hit the 1 Million, he or she must spend some of the winnings to bring together the participants for a few days or so in a venue of his or her choosing.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[sicktrader 10]

Sounds good to me. Must say that I like the direction you took with everything. Nice work.

 

My oldest daughter is nine, and she has been working a demo account with moderate success. She really doesn't have a concept of how much money she is actually winning or losing, which will probably be to her benefit when she goes live.

 

Looking forward to the new thread.

Edited April 25, 2010 by sicktrader

[MCM 10]

Looking forward to it - not to witness a car wreck (with all due respect Thales) - more too hopefully witness both of you reach the milestone. Since it is a friendly competition - and assuming the donations are going to at good cause - I will offer up some (albeit smaller) donations to the charities of choice when 250/500/750K and1,000,000 milestones are hit.

 

(Am thinking 250 dollars/500 dollars/750 dollars/ and finally 1000 dollars).

 

When you both choose charities - would you let the community know? Am hoping you also offer some glimpes into the trades - why you took them - money management - etc.

 

In the end - I figure 2500 dollars is cheap tuition if there is some good information passed along the way.

 

 

Paul (aka MCM)

[thalestrader 14]

Looking forward to it - not to witness a car wreck (with all due respect Thales) - more too hopefully witness both of you reach the milestone.

 

Paul,

 

That is a generous offer, and I would love to reach even one of the markers you placed along the road to the million dollar milestone. The particular account I will be trading is one I use such deviations from the norm as this. I funded it back in 2008 with 3K and it has fluctuated between an equity high of I think 5K and change and its worst draw down was a few dollars over 1K as I play around with this and that instrument, chart pattern, etc. and so on. Typically it sees a bunch of $90-$150 daily profits followed by a quick string of $600 daily losses. While I love to play in my sand box, in the end it is the 123's and 2B's I trade in my trading account seem to be the only thing that really works for me. As I am coupling my Race efforts with one of my experiments, I'd not be surprised if all I manage is a string of small wins alternated with a string of larger losses. So while I'd love to hit a million, I'm in this more for the fun than any such expectation. There are two things, however, that makes this experiment different for me from most of my prior sand castles, and that is that 1) it was prompted by a challenge from two of my friends, rather than dreamed up out of my own thick skull, and 2) the nature of the challenge makes the trades I'll be taking far less discretionary than I am accustomed to taking. So, who knows, maybe this time it'll be different.

 

I am interested in seeing sicktrader share his money management secrets, however, and I would be very, very pleased not to mention "shocked and awed," were he to make good on his initial proposal.

 

At any rate, I hope this can last the proposed 20 weeks, and I hope it is fun for all, racers and spectators alike.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[mike21 10]

 

5) The only requirement for participation is a live, real money trading account of $3000 or less starting equity,

 

 

 

Looking forward to following this thread.

 

Curious... how are we going to know if these are really 'live, real money' trading accounts?