3 Questions for Pros

[oleg 10]

if it was trained to not make mistakes,

and your profit to commission ratio is only 3.6%

and you traded 510 contracts per day !!!

 

how come the profit is only 20-40% per WEEK ???

 

what is your MAE to profit ratio ?

 

I think, you calculations are wrong ...

 

netPL/trade = 143.60-5.00=138.60

Profit to comission=138.60/5 =27.7

 

 

If you follow this discussion from the beginning than you, perhaps, should notice that we were talking about AI based system and its results. Actually this system used to generate about 5-10% a day ... Unfortunately, market became comletely crazy and I retire this line of systems...

(Even AI with the brain capacity 500 mgb couldn't stand it)

 

Free version is the system that use Tactics trading approach which we discuss in other thread. And 20-40% a week you can do manually

 

 

But, all this does not answer my principle questions...

[Tams 20]

I think, you calculations are wrong ...

 

netPL/trade = 143.60-5.00=138.60

Profit to comission=138.60/5 =27.7

 

 

If you follow this discussion from the beginning than you, perhaps, should notice that we were talking about AI based system and its results. Actually this system used to generate about 5-10% a day ... Unfortunately, market became comletely crazy and I retire this line of systems...

(Even AI with the brain capacity 500 mgb couldn't stand it)

 

Free version is the system that use Tactics trading approach which we discuss in other thread. And 20-40% a week you can do manually

 

 

But, all this does not answer my principle questions...

 

I stand corrected.

It was a typo, I meant commission-to-profit ratio.

ie. your trading cost is very low...

[Tams 20]

In this case per/trade ratio is $143.64 and usually round treep cost is about $5.

 

 

This is an example of my training,back and forward testing reports.

 

And comming back to the original question what info you can get from this almost perfect result which is the purpose of the system training?

It was trained do not make mistakes?

 

I had a chance to look at your list...

 

nice sim.

 

I don't think they will ever got filled at those time and prices.

 

system sims, whether forward test or backtest, are wonderful dreams.

 

Good luck on your endeavor.

[oleg 10]

I had a chance to look at your list...

 

nice sim.

 

I don't think they will ever got filled at those time and prices.

 

system sims, whether forward test or backtest, are wonderful dreams.

 

Good luck on your endeavor.

 

I use IB. The actual results, of course, 4-5 times worth of the training result...

 

And this is exactly my point: real-time trading must be more reliable than any back/forward and etc. tests. Isn't it?

 

But, unfortunately, masses are insisting to be fooled...

Is it about trading education? or something else?

[macdfx 10]

That is exactly my point...

 

Why should I export it to Excel? To see the equity curve?

 

There is no drawdowns... System is trained do not have them...

So, the back-test does not answers your questions...

 

And, what are doubt? Result you see?

 

This is a reason why I am trying to disuss the solution.

Where is it?

 

 

Simple. As one famous American politician said in the 1980's regarding Soviet Russia...

"Trust, but Verify."

I trust you will understand.

[Tams 20]

I use IB. The actual results, of course, 4-5 times worth of the training result...

 

And this is exactly my point: real-time trading must be more reliable than any back/forward and etc. tests. Isn't it?

 

But, unfortunately, masses are insisting to be fooled...

Is it about trading education? or something else?

 

I don't see the masses here...

as you have said, the download rate is about 0.5% of visitors,

 

is “Free” scaring people?

no,

 

unfortunately

only you are insisted on being fooled... by yourself.

[oleg 10]

I don't see the masses here...

as you have said, the download rate is about 0.5% of visitors,

 

is “Free” scaring people?

no,

 

unfortunately

only you are insisted on being fooled... by yourself.

 

Thanks, you are so kind.

[minoo 11]

Hi Oleg

 

I read your other thread and am personally interested in your Tactical Concepts in oppose to auto Strategies for Trading. Where can I read more about it, are there existing discussion which you could divert us to ?

 

Unfortunately we traders are too sceptical at times & to quick to label people without giving them much chance. Sometimes difference in our native culture / language may not allow us to come accross correctly in our second language. To master and implement a new concept is one thing but to initially teach it to others is as well much challenging. Hope you dont get put off by your initial efforts here and give us a chance to reevaluate your intentions and reply and keep the dialogue going. My intentions are that we will eventually learn if you are given a chance.

 

I hope you are the same person and profile as describe on this URL

Show Worker Bio Info

 

Many Thanks

Minoo

[sicktrader 10]

 

The second question is always: “If the software is so good, why do you sell it?”

 

My answer to that is very simple: I trade, and I do what I do best – developing systems.

 

 

Perhaps you are legit, but this is the statement that has me worried. When one says "developing systems", that implies that this is not your first go around and you already has his own personal ATM. Secondly, if this is true and you already have your own personal ATM, why would you bother with pain in the ass customers? Third, why would you want our input? And what, you might sell 50 units in a year for a profit that you would make in a few weeks of trading, not worth the problem in my opinion.

 

I sold a system once but it was for a gambling exchange, World Sports Exchange to be exact. They were one of the first into the online gambling. I only sold the system when the UIGA took place and basically made it difficult to transfer money into and out of offshore accounts. It started to take months to get paid, so while the system was profitable, it didn't matter if you weren't sure when you would get paid. Sold a few copies, then realized it wasn't worth my time.

 

Good luck, can't wait to hear some testimonials.

[oleg 10]

I hope you are the same person and profile as describe on this URL

Show Worker Bio Info

 

Many Thanks

Minoo

 

Yes, it is me 5-6 years ago ... may be more ...

 

When I was jobless, having bunch of problems, working on my Scenario Trader ...

[oleg 10]

When one says "developing systems", that implies that this is not your first go around and you already has his own personal ATM. Secondly, if this is true and you already have your own personal ATM, why would you bother with pain in the ass customers? Third, why would you want our input? And what, you might sell 50 units in a year for a profit that you would make in a few weeks of trading, not worth the problem in my opinion.

 

Dear SickTrader:

 

1. The industry we are in requires separation of the functionalities and their deep specialization.

2. The trading and trading systems development are the full-time jobs

3. The systems I am developing are not indicators or other TA stuff.

4. My archive is about 1Tb of code, developed during 10++ years.

4. Yes, I have a small ATM, bigger requires bigger money and much more time to sell because, as you can see here, it is almost impossible to even explain your point and as you can see here again, nobody believes even their own eyes.

 

5. Each system has its own life-time and requires continues re-adjustment, re-training and etc. that's dramatically decrease your profit...

6. You have missed another very important point - collective trading; If you cannot predict chaos create something that will put chaos in order.

7. Because p5. I came up with tactics trading, that solves lots of problems

8. The customer's opinion is the basis of any marketing

9. I want to sell 50 millions of units ; with this number I will solve p6.

 

These are mercantile motivations you call bussiness.

 

The "fairness" is the middle name of the society I came from and, as a human being I want to level the playing field for small guys enabling them with the equal or better tools big guys have.

 

I hope that the last part will not make you more sicker

 

Thanks.

[sicktrader 10]

Well, I hope that you sell your 50 mil units, I really do. I haven't researched what systems sell for, and how many units they sell a month. I know when I did my last journal on a forum people said that I could make 50k a month selling my trades. Don't know if that was accuracte or not, but wasn't anything to get me too excited and never looked into it. I had a business, I've been on top of the mountain and the the bottom of the ditch. Hope to live the rest of my life without ever having to have a customer again. I wish you well, but not the route I would take.

[oleg 10]

I know when I did my last journal on a forum people said that I could make 50k a month selling my trades. Don't know if that was accuracte or not, but wasn't anything to get me too excited and never looked into it.

 

Thanks.

 

I understand what you say, I've been there too. But I still belive in myself.

Try collective2.com to sell your signals.

 

Good luck.

[sicktrader 10]

I am here for entertainment, and I am hoping for a bit in your thread. Not looking to sell something, hell, I have a bunch of people on a twitter account from a recent go around that I haven't said one thing, ever. Maybe someday, but at this point I don't want to be responsible for other people losing money. No different than gambling, if I give out the Lakers and they lose, I feel like shit for the people who tailed, eventhough I may be up for the week or month. As I said, I never want another customer again. Information for free though, and helping others to learn is a different story.

[sicktrader 10]

By the way, if had 1k and started your system, how soon would I make $1,000,000? Serious question.

[MightyMouse 12]

Well if it produces results of only 20% a week you'll be at a million in about a year or so, give or take a few weeks.

 

Personally, I am not sure if I can wait that long.

[oleg 10]

By the way, if had 1k and started your system, how soon would I make $1,000,000? Serious question.

 

It trades emini futures of S&P500,NASDAQ,RUSSELL and DJ

 

contract price in average is $2500...

 

So, do the math.

 

In regard "how soon" - don't know. I do not claim any profitablity... It is up to trader.

[randy1953 10]

Here's the truth no one has a system that will make even 40% per month, month after months for at least a year. When I say no one I am speaking to everyone that is posting about their system, EA etc. If your making 40% per month and every month you can count on that 40 the first thing you do is not to tell the world that you have a system to which your going commercial with. This is plain stupid. You will stop your system from working that way. The second thing at 40% with a $5,000 seed you will become a millionaire at the end of the first year. Everyone that wants to sell a system has already admitted that it does not work by the fact he is selling it.

 

I have my own private EA it does extremely well I would not sell it for $500,000 because I would loose money if that gives you a idea.

Randy

 

Here's one of my EAs on myfxbook. It's real money all verified and look at the draw down. I keep it under 20% and it makes very good money.

http://www.myfxbook.com/members/MyLiveEA/my-live-ea/22865

Edited April 22, 2010 by randy1953

[MightyMouse 12]

Here's the truth no one has a system that will make even 40% per month, month after months for at least a year. When I say no one I am speaking to everyone that is posting about their system, EA etc. If your making 40% per month and every month you can count on that 40 the first thing you do is not to tell the world that you have a system to which your going commercial with. This is plain stupid. You will stop your system from working that way. The second thing at 40% with a $5,000 seed you will become a millionaire at the end of the first year. Everyone that wants to sell a system has already admitted that it does not work by the fact he is selling it.

 

I have my own private EA it does extremely well I would not sell it for $500,000 because I would loose money if that gives you a idea.

Randy

 

Here's one of my EAs on myfxbook. It's real money all verified and look at the draw down. I keep it under 20% and it makes very good money.

My Live EA System | Myfxbook

 

When will you sell it for $500,000? When you are certain that it doesn't work anymore? Who is going to want it then? You should sell it now!

[oleg 10]

Here's the truth no one has a system that will make even 40% per month, month after months for at least a year. When I say no one I am speaking to everyone that is posting about their system, EA etc. If your making 40% per month and every month you can count on that 40 the first thing you do is not to tell the world that you have a system to which your going commercial with. This is plain stupid. You will stop your system from working that way. The second thing at 40% with a $5,000 seed you will become a millionaire at the end of the first year. Everyone that wants to sell a system has already admitted that it does not work by the fact he is selling it.

 

I have my own private EA it does extremely well I would not sell it for $500,000 because I would loose money if that gives you a idea.

Randy

 

Here's one of my EAs on myfxbook. It's real money all verified and look at the draw down. I keep it under 20% and it makes very good money.

My Live EA System | Myfxbook

 

What would you say about this:

www.adry-fx.blogspot.com System | Myfxbook

 

 

Account: real

Gain Daily: 14.42%

Monthly:431.86%

 

Doesn't it contridict to your statement?

 

Thanks

[DugDug 10]

randy I am confused ... I noticed this message at the top of the screen you sent through, This account uses a custom start date - for full history analysis use the 'Custom Analysis' tool.

So I changed the date.

it looks like you have a very big drawdown at the end of Feb?

[BlowFish 10]

When will you sell it for $500,000? When you are certain that it doesn't work anymore? Who is going to want it then? You should sell it now!

 

:rofl: I wonder if some of these systems you read about ever worked at all!

 

You and Randy raise an interesting point. Whilst systematic trading can remove emotion from the day to day executing there is still a lot of discretion involved.

 

When do you trade your system, when do you change the parameters, when do you retire it, when do you resurrect it again?

 

I guess some systems are somewhat adaptive and might have subsystems depending on market condition (trending or sideways for example). Still there are decisions that need to be made and a level of knowledge (about the markets and the system) to make them effectively. No ATM's sadly.

[BlowFish 10]

What would you say about this:

www.adry-fx.blogspot.com System | Myfxbook

 

 

Account: real

Gain Daily: 14.42%

Monthly:431.86%

 

Doesn't it contridict to your statement?

 

Thanks

 

I am not sure I could trade it as it's being traded. It's on a 2.888k draw down right now. On an account that was started with 1k 6 months back. I can't completely work out the figures seems like he is varying the position sizes though hard to tell exactly how. Current figures show an open 30% drawdown on account balance.

 

You can make phenomenal returns if you are prepared to risk it all!

[MightyMouse 12]

:rofl: I wonder if some of these systems you read about ever worked at all!

 

You and Randy raise an interesting point. Whilst systematic trading can remove emotion from the day to day executing there is still a lot of discretion involved.

 

When do you trade your system, when do you change the parameters, when do you retire it, when do you resurrect it again?

 

I guess some systems are somewhat adaptive and might have subsystems depending on market condition (trending or sideways for example). Still there are decisions that need to be made and a level of knowledge (about the markets and the system) to make them effectively. No ATM's sadly.

 

Well, people who do it, do not think there is discretion involved, in spite of the fact that systems need to constantly be tweaked.

[randy1953 10]

no confusion at all. This is my live testing account where I test my EAs. In the first of the year I had a couple of issues I had to resolved. What you see now if the final result of this and a straight running of my EA from Mar 2..lol it's so funny how some people get jealous of something and want to try to make it not so. Sorry but it so..

randy

 

 

randy I am confused ... I noticed this message at the top of the screen you sent through, This account uses a custom start date - for full history analysis use the 'Custom Analysis' tool.

So I changed the date.

it looks like you have a very big drawdown at the end of Feb?