Forex Robots

[andypap 10]

does anybody have any experience with forex robots..

they claim 90 percent winners / loosers backtested over 10 years of tick data and some claim that they run 1 year or more on real accounts with similar results..

their price is below 100$ one time purchase

the only thing they let you see is an equity curve and they bash your head with aggressive sales pitch promising a very fat bank account

most of them are metatrader pluggins..

what is the catch here?

do they make their money on spread ?

are they reliable?

 

regards

[jonbig04 10]

If you had a robot that gave you an automatic edge, would you sell it for $100?

 

Don't waste your money.

[andypap 10]

this is something i have allready guessed...

i design my own strategies in easy language and to be honest with you its quite tough to raise the bar above 70% accuracy and maintaining a good profit factor so i felt a bit intimmidated..

i thought that if so many products claim such huge success maybe i am missing something here and have to study more...find a different edge

but then again the advertising of these products is so saturated with hard sales techniques and promises that make me very suspicious..

thats why i wanted to see if somebody has a personal experience to testify...

 

if half of what they claim is true i will quit now and get one of those robots and forget about easy langauge and all the headaches it is bringing to my life

 

regards

[maxima 10]

you have to understand that what you are saying: i am tired of working hard on my own strategies, making few bobs here as there. although i dont believe in miracles, but i am hoping for one. please tell me this is possible - invest a 100 buck and get rich next day. never work again. please please

 

here my response - yes it is possible, go for it!

 

see i am very humanistic

[ericbubb 10]

Hello

I have been trading EA Robots for 4 months now.

One Robot which I stopped trading with is ForexLuger.

Initially it was a very good Robot I actually recommended it to a college.

But then in a matter of 5 trades it took a live £1300 account down to £65.

 

I contacted the vendors and was informed "Not to both them"

 

I requested my money back and have heard nothing from them since despite repeated E Mails.

 

Other Robots to avoid :- Forex Cyclone, Forex Cypher.

 

General impression with Robots loss come quick profits are small and come slowly.

 

Live account price feeds differ to test account price feed which means you only see the truth with a Robot when you put reall monay for the Robot to trade.

[BlowFish 10]

 

But then in a matter of 5 trades it took a live £1300 account down to £65.

 

 

That should just not happen under any circumstances. You need to have circuit breakers in place and more importantly use appropriate position sizing for your own tolerance of risk of ruin. in short, you bet too large. You will always have strings of 5 (or more) losers. RoR is absolutely critical with automated systems. Any vendor that does not give you enough info to calculate suitable position sizes is one to cross off your list.

[MadMarketScientist 11]

These robots get their stats from having huge risk per trade - it enables them to have ridiculous winning percentages, and that's what people want to buy. Most aren't interested in hearing about 5 losses in a row being possible, or 60% winners being good (they think it loses 40% of the time so it stinks....get me that 98% winner)

 

Of course then when you trade it in real-time you eventually hit that huge pothole and in hours or days profits and account is gone. Many times they do start off well for people, but it's a false sense of security. Once the markets do something out of character you can kiss your account goodbye. And, if the robot manages to be super successful, you can count on the fact that the brokers see the order flow coming in and just so happens that's when the spreads get widened......

[BlowFish 10]

Sure the Junk ones do, one should just discount those.

 

BTW risk is not (or should not be) determined by the system. That is the key parameter that the trader has control over through appropriate position sizing. Ericbubb did not post enough info to determine whether the system he was using was junk, however the way he was trading was clearly over leveraged. Risking 5 to make 1 is absolutely fine (contrary to conventional 'wisdom') provided your winning percentage is higher enough of course one must carefully look at risk of ruin but with high % systems the RoR is actually relatively low (compared to more 'normal' 40-60% risk 1 to make 2 or 3). They tend to have much smoother equity curves and much lower drawdowns.

 

Probably one of the best pieces of advice one can give too a new trader (even more so one that wants to use an automated system) is to thoroughly understand RoR. My favourite site for an intro is TradersCALM - Calculating risk of ruin . Anyone trying to evaluate these systems without a thorough understanding is pretty much doomed to failure. Any vendor that does not provide comprehensive enough performance details to allow one to calculate this metric should be crossed off the list (as I mentioned earlier in the thread). That's most I guess.

 

If a discretionary trader is risking 20% account equity a trade chances are they will be gone before too long. I don't know why people expect that risking that much with a robot will be Ok?

[ericbubb 10]

Sure the Junk ones do, one should just discount those.

 

BTW risk is not (or should not be) determined by the system. That is the key parameter that the trader has control over through appropriate position sizing. Ericbubb did not post enough info to determine whether the system he was using was junk, however the way he was trading was clearly over leveraged. Risking 5 to make 1 is absolutely fine (contrary to conventional 'wisdom') provided your winning percentage is higher enough of course one must carefully look at risk of ruin but with high % systems the RoR is actually relatively low (compared to more 'normal' 40-60% risk 1 to make 2 or 3). They tend to have much smoother equity curves and much lower drawdowns.

 

Probably one of the best pieces of advice one can give too a new trader (even more so one that wants to use an automated system) is to thoroughly understand RoR. My favourite site for an intro is TradersCALM - Calculating risk of ruin . Anyone trying to evaluate these systems without a thorough understanding is pretty much doomed to failure. Any vendor that does not provide comprehensive enough performance details to allow one to calculate this metric should be crossed off the list (as I mentioned earlier in the thread). That's most I guess.

 

If a discretionary trader is risking 20% account equity a trade chances are they will be gone before too long. I don't know why people expect that risking that much with a robot will be Ok?

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A Robot EA is purchased to do just that. To enter trades and money management of the account size. End of story. BlowFish appears rather full of his/her self and appear to wish to lecture on a topic BlowFish has no knowlege of.

 

The amount of money I allow a Robot EA to trade depends on the amount of money which is in my accounuts. Which Blowfish is not aware of. You have to allow the Robot EA do it's business by it self. Else what is the point of haing an Robot EA if you have to watch it trade.

 

I would expect any Robot EA to trade within the limits of the account it has available. Either with small stop loss or by entering the correct size of lot size per trade depending on the account size.

 

When ForexLuger started losing money it did not reduce the lot size it was trading as I would have been expected of a Robot EA. Hence I classify ForexLuger as a Robot EA not worth it's salt.

[natedredd10 10]

I respect the forex robot guys for their brilliant marketing. Calling an automated system a "robot" and then selling it to fools is something I'm pissed I didn't think of.

[BlowFish 10]

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A Robot EA is purchased to do just that. To enter trades and money management of the account size. End of story. BlowFish appears rather full of his/her self and appear to wish to lecture on a topic BlowFish has no knowlege of.

 

The amount of money I allow a Robot EA to trade depends on the amount of money which is in my accounuts. Which Blowfish is not aware of. You have to allow the Robot EA do it's business by it self. Else what is the point of haing an Robot EA if you have to watch it trade.

 

I would expect any Robot EA to trade within the limits of the account it has available. Either with small stop loss or by entering the correct size of lot size per trade depending on the account size.

 

When ForexLuger started losing money it did not reduce the lot size it was trading as I would have been expected of a Robot EA. Hence I classify ForexLuger as a Robot EA not worth it's salt.

 

Do it your way then. Just trying to help. I take no pleasure in the system blowing an account albeit a small one.We can agree on one thing, the trader should determine risk based on their account size and their tolerance of risk (risk of ruin to be precise). Any system that gives absolutely no control to the trader with respect to position sizing is one that I would personally not trade.

Edited June 13, 2010 by BlowFish

[Simple 10]

Any system that gives absolutely no control to the trader with respect to position sizing is one that provides the trader with an opportunity for learning.

 

With a small account it is relatively cheap

[WorldTrader 10]

Hello

I have been trading EA Robots for 4 months now.

One Robot which I stopped trading with is ForexLuger.

Initially it was a very good Robot I actually recommended it to a college.

But then in a matter of 5 trades it took a live £1300 account down to £65.

 

I contacted the vendors and was informed "Not to both them"

 

I requested my money back and have heard nothing from them since despite repeated E Mails.

 

Other Robots to avoid :- Forex Cyclone, Forex Cypher.

 

General impression with Robots loss come quick profits are small and come slowly.

 

Live account price feeds differ to test account price feed which means you only see the truth with a Robot when you put reall monay for the Robot to trade.

 

Eric,

I am confused. You say that a robot cleaned out your account and then you talk about that is what Robots are supposed to do. Trade what you have in your account. Then you slam Blowfish about not knowing what you have in your account. You told us it was down to 65 Pounds.

My opintion is Robots are crap unless you work for a major bank and then they put so much money into them, that they might just win more than they lose. For the Average Joe, don't waste your money. They are sold to make money for the seller not for the end user!

[waveslider 10]

"The amount of money I allow a Robot EA to trade depends on the amount of money which is in my accounts. "

 

sorry ericbubb you betray your ignorance here. Learn about percent risk and percent volatility position sizing and you will understand what blowfish is talking about.

 

Just google it and take some time to understand, it may not be easy to grasp at first. This information is absolutely critical to system trading and likely the reason that the robots blow up.

[Tiobingo 10]

Anyone can curve fit past results and package up something that 'would have worked.' Markets are infinitely changing. If robots worked then they would be against the law because only the feds can print money. Robots are for dreamers who want to make easy money. They sell a dream, not reality. What a farce. There is no easy money to be made in the markets. Trading is one of the hardest things to do successfully. Anyone who had a robot that actually worked would keep it very secret because the amount of money that can be made trading it would earn infinitely more than trying to run a business selling it. Running a business is a pain in the butt. You have to deal with customers, complaints, employees, legal stuff, etc. Who would want those headaches if you could become richer than countries by merely running your trade robot. Think about it.

 

I will say this though. At least robots are not human. Neither are markets. Humans fail because of a lot of reasons but most of the time, it is for subjective reasons. I would agree that if you could trade like a robot, that is, without any emotional attachment, and you find and learn a good solid trade system, then you could just 'lean on your system' and let it be the non human part of your trading. You can just robotically facilitate the trades of your trade system. But be a trader. You still might not succeed but at least you can take responsibility for your own actions and the results you achieve. Hope that helps. Not trying to be preachy or condescending but sometimes tough love is the best kind there is.