Does Anyone Truly Make a Living Solely Trading the E-minis???

[Cory2679 11]

10 ES contracts = $500 per point.

30pt profit a month average = $15,000

50% wage to yourself to live on = $7500

 

Now lets include some basic costs.... and lets say you average 6 round trips a week at $4.80 a roundie working on a 4 week month to keep it simple....

 

30pt profit = $15,000

 

Cost of Round Trips -$1152

TT X trader - $1500

CQG - $600

News Feed - $300

Net Costs - $3,552

 

Net Profit - $11,448

What you pay youself.... $5724

 

86834,

 

Would you consider the following example unreasonable?

 

 

You'll notice that the "what you pay yourself" per month is 3.64 times greater than the number you give, starting with half the capital!

 

I know for a fact that my example is possible...

 

I absolutely understand and agree with the idea of having reasonable expectations, but at the same time the trader has to believe something is possible for it to be possible.

 

...of course, you can believe it's possible and not be able to achieve it...but you can't achieve it while believing it's not possible.

 

 

Cory

[diablo272 10]

No offence or anything, but as stated in one of my posts 99.9% of you will not be properly funded, and 99.9% of people on a website like this wouldn't be able afford my fee or 20% take of monthly profits. So rest assured, i'm not hear to promote mentorship lol

 

But the members of the following Facebook groups probably ARE properly funded, right?

 

(look for posts from "Chris Nelson" and "Kevin Haygreen")(http://www.traders.com/Documentation/FEEDbk_Docs/2009/06/Interview.html)

Stock Investing for Students | Facebook

Emini Futures Traders | Facebook

European Day Traders | Facebook

 

LOL indeed!

Like I say, it's just fascinating to me

Same here

 

Don't worry 86348936990909 whatever your name is, you have no potential clients on TL, so this won't lose you any business:

Edited April 3, 2010 by diablo272

[sevensa 10]

86834,

 

Would you consider the following example unreasonable?

 

 

You'll notice that the "what you pay yourself" per month is 3.64 times greater than the number you give, starting with half the capital!

 

I know for a fact that my example is possible...

 

I absolutely understand and agree with the idea of having reasonable expectations, but at the same time the trader has to believe something is possible for it to be possible.

 

...of course, you can believe it's possible and not be able to achieve it...but you can't achieve it while believing it's not possible.

 

 

Cory

 

I'd be curious to know how you know for a fact this is possible? Nothing against dreaming, but do you honestly think making half a million a year on 50K account is realistic?

[Cory2679 11]

I'd be curious to know how you know for a fact this is possible? Nothing against dreaming, but do you honestly think making half a million a year on 50K account is realistic?

 

I'm sorry, but I'm not at liberty to say how I know...you can think what you want about that, but I have no reason to come on here and lie and I have no history of lying or BS on this forum.

 

Obviously it's not typical, even among the 5% or so who don't lose all their money. I just know that it's possible.

[86834 10]

I must admit that your sale tactics are more sofisticated than the average shil who pops into some trading sites. Nevertheless, if you were not after grabbing money, you could have eliminated that part (offer of mentorship) from your site and from posting that fact here and just keep the INFORMATIVE and FUNNY parts of your blog.

 

I am sure that most people on this site will see through you, thus I will not have to point out these things again.

 

Good luck to you.

 

Gabe

 

Exactly what i was talking about in one of my previous post, the milk of human kindness soon turns sour in places like this. The witch hunts begins and why so, and for what need? The only outcome being the OP topic getting completely de-railed.

 

So i make a post, you see something that you don't like, and so what? All of sudden it turns into a look at me i'm right, i'm sherlock holmes, please everyone give me brownie points for me uncovering the devil that lurks amongst us....

 

Like I say, this is one of the aspects that I find interesting about places like this, and as mentioned earlier, you can see all types of human behaviour here. Decades ago two sociologists Berger and Luckmann introduced the concept that successful socialization occurs when an individual internalizes a given groups beliefs and values to such an extreme extend that it becomes 'reality for them'. Basically anything that goes against the norm for the group and you get an automatic impulse that it is wrong, regardless, and that to realize the true fact you have to fight to realize it. Politics is a fine example of this.

 

In experiments that have been carried out by leading ivy leauge universities in the states, they hooked people up to an FMRI machine and the people listened to something that was true, but challenged their personal belief. The outcome was that when such a thing happens, it actives a part of your brain that is responsible for detecting errors and you instantly get an automatic impulse from your brain that basically prints out 'error!'. Now this backs up research done by princeston universtiy that shows that people see their own beliefs as less baised than others. In other words, you're just automatically thinking you're right and will try to disprove anything that goes against your personal belief as you see it as a threat to you in some way. Which goes back to the Berger and Luckmann theory that we all do live, in some sense, in alternative forms of reality. Like we all know that 1+1 = 2 and that 2+2 = 4, but if something goes against your 'alternative reality' then you will just automatically reject it or do anything you can to disprove it. A good example here would be religion and science... how was the world made?

 

Now this leads onto the next part which is misperceptions in intergroup conflict... The unviersity of Florida carried out studies which examined misperceptions of disagreements in partisan social conflicts. The research basically concluded that those who disagree with the adversaries tend to exaggerate the differences of opinion. They also concluded that the people disagreeing with the adversaries were also inaccurate in perceviing the opinions within the debate. This is in a nutshell what you have done in this post.

 

Now as mentioned before, what is happening in the post is fine example of what i've explained above. You've picked up on something irrelevent that you don't personally agree with, yet it has sent an impulse in your brain to bring it up as issue because it goes against the norm of the group that you feel that you belong too. The pack animal effect kicks in as you scramble to seek approval from your peers within the group which is this community, which in turn, makes you feel like you have a more crediable role within the communtity. For example, when checking up on this thread, you'll feel a sense of approval from the community if you have a couple of 'thank you for this post' attached to the post that you wrote. Once you have finished making a couple of pointless pokes at me, you and the others will just go back to fighting amongst yourselves as the power struggle contintues for the dominant role of the group that is this communtity. All I am to you is an unknown threat as you fight for your place in the pecking order

 

It's really interesting to watch. I'm sure all of you will agree with me here, even if you don't chose to voice your opinions, that 'trading communities' like this with their monderators, thanked post counts, number post contributed are basically an online hierarchical arrangement of individuals into divisions of percieved trading credibility, which is just social stratification. As mentioned above, this just causes a power struggle as people fight for their place in the pecking order because people want to be 'the one'...that trader in the community that people acknowlege as being successful and who's opinions are worthy. So as the majority of people fight it out for their place, and just look around this forum, you can find plenty of posts of people fighting amongst each other, trying to disprove other people, and the various witch hunts that have run rampent within threads.... it's clear to see that the original conception and ideology of the group which was to help share information and education about trading has just taking a complete back seat as people fight for their place in the social order.

 

Now this comes onto why I said that 99.9% of people here are not going to make anything of trading, and are not my client target base for mentorship, a subject that is quite irrelvent, but you see it as an opportunity to score some brownie points for reasons listed above. Now if there's something that I say that you don't like, then fair enough, we all have our right to disagree, and the old mantra of if you haven't got anything good to say, then don't say anything at all should be applied. If you don't like that I offer mentorship, then no one is forcing you to look into it. If you don't like my fire, then don't come round. It's pretty simple really. If people are interested in mentorship from myself then they're free to spend a week watching live trading by myself and seeing how much I make or lose for real before parting with any payment. That's fair enough isn't it?

 

Also I'd like to point out, that because of your pointless urge to bring the mentorship issue up to score brownie points, you've just ended up creating more awareness that I offer mentorship. Like I say, if you don't like my fire then don't come round, no one is forcing you, and people are free to form their own opinions if they wish to investigate further after spending a week with me.

 

The main reason why professional traders don't come onto websites like this is because of the witch hunt, and the bickering by people who clearly have no idea about the underlying subject. People forget here that the objective here is trading and helping others achieve their goals. A professional may share some knowledge with the group, but it disrupts the social order or status quo of a place like this, so it ends up just being thrown back in their face. So a lot of us just think, what's the point? As a result, you end up with a community that is filled with the blind leading the blind, who have lost track of the orginal mantra of the community. Anyone who comes along and tries to help is automatically made out to be a crook. No one is here to rob you of your money, you're quite capable of robbing yourself by being delusional that you're going to be a successful trader in a highly competetive professional industy, without any proper training. Why don't you go start an oil company and a space agency while you're at it?

 

Anyway i've ranted on long enough here. I'll end on one last note... When you actually listen you may feel that it is confusing in one or more ways, but that's just because you're not used to listening. If you truly listen, you might find that the person talking is indeed very interesting.

Edited April 3, 2010 by 86834

[Spydertrader 10]

I would like to open this topic to offer a thread of hope to all of those that find it impossible to believe that one can actually make a living trading solely the e-minis. If you have done it for over a year, it would be great if you could share your experience and how you got there.

 

I might as well say it directly and right up front. Most people view the the following information as pure and utter crap. They often describe the principles by which I trade as "impossible, unnecessarily complex, ridiculous," or even, "complete bull$hit." Anyone falling into such a catagory should immediately add my username to their 'ignore list' avoiding the chance of reading anything which might conflict with their long held biases and / or belief systems.

 

I exclusively trade the E-Mini S & P 500, and I have done so for nearly five years. Prior to trading the ES, I applied the very same principles of The Price Volume Relationship onto the Equities Markets. I do not post to any 'blogs.' I have no 'mentorships' for sale. I operate no 'advisory services' where one can subscibe. I only make my living by trading the ES.

 

As to how I trade, I've written extensively (on this web site and on ET) on the process by which one can teach themselves how to trade. One need not read books to learn about how all markets operate. One need not seek a mentor to learn to trade. One does not even need to read my posts to learn how to learn. Anyone wishing to learn to trade profitably simply needs to have the ability to apply critical thinking onto a problem.

 

Contrary to the viewpoint of the majority, Markets do not exist randomly and they do not provide a definition of 'chaos.' Markets (all markets) exist on a fractal basis and provide examples of elegant order in their construction. This order exists in any market and on any time frame.

 

I have spent many years learning to see that which most claim cannot exist. Along the way, I have learned that while everyone has the ability to learn to do what I do, few have the desire and determination.

 

So yes Virginia, profitiable traders (who exclusively trade the E-Mini's) do exist. The choice to view such statements as fantasy or fact remains within the mind of the individual.

 

Good trading to you all.

 

- Spydertrader

[86834 10]

I might as well say it directly and right up front. Most people view the the following information as pure and utter crap. They often describe the principles by which I trade as "impossible, unnecessarily complex, ridiculous," or even, "complete bull$hit." Anyone falling into such a catagory should immediately add my username to their 'ignore list' avoiding the chance of reading anything which might conflict with their long held biases and / or belief systems.

 

I exclusively trade the E-Mini S & P 500, and I have done so for nearly five years. Prior to trading the ES, I applied the very same principles of The Price Volume Relationship onto the Equities Markets. I do not post to any 'blogs.' I have no 'mentorships' for sale. I operate no 'advisory services' where one can subscibe. I only make my living by trading the ES.

 

As to how I trade, I've written extensively (on this web site and on ET) on the process by which one can teach themselves how to trade. One need not read books to learn about how all markets operate. One need not seek a mentor to learn to trade. One does not even need to read my posts to learn how to learn. Anyone wishing to learn to trade profitably simply needs to have the ability to apply critical thinking onto a problem.

 

Contrary to the viewpoint of the majority, Markets do not exist randomly and they do not provide a definition of 'chaos.' Markets (all markets) exist on a fractal basis and provide examples of elegant order in their construction. This order exists in any market and on any time frame.

 

I have spent many years learning to see that which most claim cannot exist. Along the way, I have learned that while everyone has the ability to learn to do what I do, few have the desire and determination.

 

So yes Virginia, profitiable traders (who exclusively trade the E-Mini's) do exist. The choice to view such statements as fantasy or fact remains within the mind of the individual.

 

Good trading to you all.

 

- Spydertrader

 

If you say you're making money from trading and you taught yourself, I believe you, and I take my hat off to you for doing it on your own. I didn't do it on my own, I started of as a trainiee at a prop firm and was taught how to trade, so like I say, respect to you for doing so.

 

My point about seeking a mentor is because someone like yourself is an exception to the rule. Richard Brandson dropped out of school, but ended up the CEO of Virgin and a billionaire, David Beckham dropped out of school to play football and ended up an international star with a popstar wife. There's always going to be that person who is the exception to the rule, but for every 1 Richard Branson, how many fall and never make it?

 

Yes it is possible to be the person that taught her/himself how to trade, but the simple fact of the matter is that the odds are heavily stacked against you. It's about probabilities. For example, this board is full of people wanting to be full time traders, but I bet that only 10% of people in this community have taken the proper steps to try and make it happen. I bet 90% of people here have never applied to an established firm for a trainiee position, and I bet more haven't even put a C.V together for a trading position.

 

If you met someone who said ' Yeah I want to be a banker, but it isn't working out... I haven't applied to any banks for banking jobs, but i've got this book about banking, so i'm going to start my own bank'..... you would just think... are you for real?

 

If you're serious about being a trader, apply for professional positions within firms. If that doesn't work out, then try the next best option, try and find a mentor to teach you how to trade. If that doesn't work out, and you still believe you can do it, then yeah, have that one last push and try and do it on your own. If trading is what you're serious about doing, then you should be doing anything within your power to increase your probability of success.

 

It's just common sense people.... which unfortunately isn't that common.

[GhostofLivermore 10]

 

Anyway i've ranted on long enough here. I'll end on one last note... When you actually listen you may feel that it is confusing in one or more ways, but that's just because you're not used to listening. If you truly listen, you might find that the person talking is indeed very interesting.

 

 

86834

 

I read through your blog and several of your posts on this subject.

 

1. I've been in this business since 1980 and when I was your age I was living the same lifestyle you are by 1987. Approximately the same span of your existing career.

 

2. Like you, I "thought" I was at the top of my game and on top of the world.

 

3. Like you, I "thought" I knew EVERYTHING there was to know about trading.

 

I have no doubt that you do know what your talking about BUT what worries me about you is I think you have forgotten how to learn.

 

Markets change and so does "the game" just because you've got 7 years (a junior trader by my standards) doesn't mean you know everything and I think you would be wise to stop turning generalizations into statements of facts.

 

I wish you continued success but there are MANY ways to trade and there are MANY other traders that can make you look like a school kid ;-)

 

I've meet some of the greatest in this business and the one thing they all have in common is humility.

 

I wish you well and much continued success.

[diablo272 10]

Exactly what i was talking about in one of my previous post, the milk of human kindness soon turns sour in places like this. The witch hunts begins and why so, and for what need? The only outcome being the OP topic getting completely de-railed.

 

So i make a post, you see something that you don't like, and so what? All of sudden it turns into a look at me i'm right, i'm sherlock holmes, please everyone give me brownie points for me uncovering the devil that lurks amongst us....

 

So we're all just supposed to say "Wow 86834, you're so smart and generous, thanks so much for everything you do for us!" But if someone disagrees and points out that you're just a shill, then that person is trying to get "brownie points"? And just what are you trying to do then if you're really trying to help everyone here with your posts? Let me guess, it has nothing to do with brownie points, right? You're just a fund manager minding your own business by advertising for his mentorship program on a site where you've admitted you have no potential clients, even though you say you stay up until 2 AM every day reading through the vast amounts of emails you get from candidates for your mentorship program. And you also advertise for your mentorship program on FACEBOOK. And you claim to be 24 years old in that S&C interview, yet in those posts on Facebook (made in the same year as the S&C interview) you claim to have been the president of your firm for SEVEN years. So you've been the president of your firm since you were...17? Drawing attention to the obvious isn't the same as saying "I'm Sherlock Holmes."

 

Personally I don't care about being "thanked" for any posts I make in this thread, and I don't care if everyone on this forum thinks I'm an ******* after reading my posts here. The ONLY reason I'm posting in this thread is that there's nothing funnier to me than watching someone like you try to lie his way out of his own fantasy world. And by the way, I'm not saying "I'm right." I could very well be wrong, but too much of what you've posted here in regards to your mentorship program makes no sense to me. The difference is that you seem to have a vested interest in being "right", and I don't.

[MCM 10]

I've meet some of the greatest in this business and the one thing they all have in common is humility.

 

Ghost of Livermopre: Cheers to your statement. Confidence promotes success - hubris invites disaster.

Humility is a constant denonimator for success in all areas of life. The journey for most of us continues. TL is a nice place to grab a beer and enjoy the conversations of people who share the same passion - trading.

 

86834: To quote you (and I did enjoy your original post in this thread - as something to remind each day how tough this business is)

"I make money, they make money, and any talk of which methods work is just the same as two artists arguing over how to draw an apple. If you're making money, you're making money, it doesn't really require discussion. When i'm in the pub with my friends that are traders, we're not talking about trading methods...."

 

If you dont discuss how to draw an apple - then why in the hell would you discuss how the apple grows? Different people learn differently - to make the statement that 99% of the people here will fail (another post of yours) - and the way you SHOULD learn is via a training/prop firm - is arguing about how the apple grows. You make the assumption that the majority of successful traders learn via a prop firm. Care to show that study? I personally know as many failed prop firm traders as I do anyone else.

 

I don't need an Ivy League study to understand what communication and hierarchy goes on in a bar, a neighborhood, or a chat room. What people respond to is how the person acts when you say "Hello" to them. You might be a fun & engaging and interesting person, or you might be a complete prick. Probably depends on the day & time (you were writing a post at 430 AM your time according to the log - assuming you are in Noddingham). Telling someone they are bound to fail, not doing the right things, and linking them to websites regailing the cocaine/threesome laden days of past gone by is boredom at its best - loathsome at its worst.

 

What works for you - might not work for many of us. Everyone can find their own way - trade at their own risk tolerance - and attempt to earn the amount they see fit. And that is the beauty of trading.

 

I hope you are truly successful at your business and can retire for the Mrs's - and get to write your book on trading philosophy. You should do the same for me, and the rest in this room.

 

 

Regards

 

MCM

[86834 10]

86834

 

I read through your blog and several of your posts on this subject.

 

1. I've been in this business since 1980 and when I was your age I was living the same lifestyle you are by 1987. Approximately the same span of your existing career.

 

2. Like you, I "thought" I was at the top of my game and on top of the world.

 

3. Like you, I "thought" I knew EVERYTHING there was to know about trading.

 

I have no doubt that you do know what your talking about BUT what worries me about you is I think you have forgotten how to learn.

 

Markets change and so does "the game" just because you've got 7 years (a junior trader by my standards) doesn't mean you know everything and I think you would be wise to stop turning generalizations into statements of facts.

 

I wish you continued success but there are MANY ways to trade and there are MANY other traders that can make you look like a school kid ;-)

 

I've meet some of the greatest in this business and the one thing they all have in common is humility.

 

I wish you well and much continued success.

 

Believe me I haven't forgotten how to learn, the market is always your boss and the market is always adapting, and no matter how big you get, there's always someone bigger than you. A lesson the market quickly served to me when i decided to try and push the Dax around with size in a spread against stoxx once... Also with the adapting to the markets, the 2006 era on Eurex was interesting as every man and his dog in London was making a fortune, then as it droppped off and the eurex spreads went a bit crazy, some of the biggest traders that I knew at the time just ended up leaving trading, and that era as we moved away from the mid 2000's was a big lesson in adapting. I've also never once stated that the way I trade is the only way to trade. As you say, many ways up a mountain. I'm sorry you feel that I have made generalizations into statements or facts, that wasn't my intention. However I do feel that this has just turned into a try and prove me wrong thread because the reality of things isn't what people want to hear in terms of success in the retail world. My point that i've been trying to make is that yeah trading is great, but you have to be realistic in what you're going to achieve if you're coming from a retail angle. It frankly pisses me off when I try to give some helpful advice to a community trying to make it in the game that I love, only to have people try and shoot me down and undermine any advice that I try to give.

 

You and I come from a completely different trading background to the majorty on these forums. I never just argue with people and say they're wrong, I give them my 2 cents of advice that has come from being in this business for a good few years, getting up every single morning at 5am, and plodding through London rush hour, to be at my desk for 6am to trade with some of the most talented, and most diverse set of people i've ever met in my life. I've dedicated my life to the markets, and yeah i've had my success in the markets, but my ruthless dedication to what i love to do has costs me dearly in other areas of my life, which i think a lot of other traders in the city can relate too. I just pisses me off that after everything i've gone through to get where I have, I try and share my experienced and knowledge with others somewhere like here, and it just gets spat back in my face. To me it's like a bunch of no hopers are trying to devalue what i've done and what i've tried to share.

 

I'm fully aware that the $50k-$100k a week that I make is pretty much peanuts in the grand scheme of things, and there are many, many traders out there who will piss all over that, a handful of traders i know DO piss over what i make. I've met traders who's weekly take is more closer to the GDP of some tin pot country. However, my few million dollars that I take home a year, I think more than qaulifies me to depense some general advice about trading and this industry. Yeah you are completely right that there are traders that you know and I know who can make my trading look like school boy dinner money, but my final point is that, they ain't the people on this forum who try and argue with me if I try and help someone out.

[86834 10]

So we're all just supposed to say "Wow 86834, you're so smart and generous, thanks so much for everything you do for us!" But if someone disagrees and points out that you're just a shill, then that person is trying to get "brownie points"? And just what are you trying to do then if you're really trying to help everyone here with your posts? Let me guess, it has nothing to do with brownie points, right? You're just a fund manager minding your own business by advertising for his mentorship program on a site where you've admitted you have no potential clients, even though you say you stay up until 2 AM every day reading through the vast amounts of emails you get from candidates for your mentorship program. And you also advertise for your mentorship program on FACEBOOK. And you claim to be 24 years old in that S&C interview, yet in those posts on Facebook (made in the same year as the S&C interview) you claim to have been the president of your firm for SEVEN years. So you've been the president of your firm since you were...17? Drawing attention to the obvious isn't the same as saying "I'm Sherlock Holmes."

 

Personally I don't care about being "thanked" for any posts I make in this thread, and I don't care if everyone on this forum thinks I'm an ******* after reading my posts here. The ONLY reason I'm posting in this thread is that there's nothing funnier to me than watching someone like you try to lie his way out of his own fantasy world. And by the way, I'm not saying "I'm right." I could very well be wrong, but too much of what you've posted here in regards to your mentorship program makes no sense to me. The difference is that you seem to have a vested interest in being "right", and I don't.

 

No I'm not interested in anyone going wow 868347 you're amazing or anything like that. Believe me, i don't need other people to inflate my own ego.

 

You're all just missing the point completely here. I tired to share some information with the original poster, then the word mentorship popped up and the whole witch hunt begins. You all just jump up accusing me of trying to profit in some way from these posts. What the hell do you know? I tell you want, PM me, and I'll give you the details of retail brokers that everyone here has heard off, and you can contact them and ask them about me. They will tell you that they've asked me work with them to do webinars on hotcomm, to do webinars for their client base, and to write articles for them and I've told them that I wasn't interested. If i was interested in trying to make money from mentorship from people like you, then I wouldn't of done that now would I? No... instead i wrote the article on my blog titled Dream Machine which was because of the last conversation I had with a large retail broker that a lot of you probably use, where I turned down their offer to work together doing mentorship.

 

Like I say, I'm not interested in people going wow or anything like that. All i wanted to do was share my experience with aspiring traders without having some wannabie trader shouting out that i'm a crook selling mentorship. Some of you really are just jokes.

[86834 10]

Oh yeah, and that S&C magazine, the age was a typo, i'm not 24, I had just turned 26 when the interview was conducted, and I am now 27.

 

And for that facebook thing, I had no idea about that facebook stuff, and as you can see that wasn't posted by myself. So you can hardly hold me to something that was posted by someone else.

 

Also for the S&C stuff, I think you'll find they checked my trading background before printing that interview. Also again, if i wanted to wow you in some way or try and advertise myself, don't you think i would of mentioned the S&C interview? No.... you're ego went out on google to try and disprove me in some way on a public forum, and all you found was an an interview article from S&C magazine about me and my trading. You know the saying assumptions make an ass out of you and I? Well it doesn't, assumptions just make an ass out of you.

 

Just like everything in life, a couple of idiots ruin it for everyone. My blog gets around 300 hits a day, and I get lots of emails every week from people who love the trading articles that i've put on there and they say it has helped them greatly. Seeing as i'm such a moron and fake in your opinion, I if you want, i'll remove it all from my blog, and i'll quote your TL username and a couple of the others here as the reason for taking it down, and if they have a problem with that, they can come here and take it up with you... How about that?

[diablo272 10]

Seeing as i'm such a moron and fake in your opinion, I if you want, i'll remove it all from my blog, and i'll quote your TL username and a couple of the others here as the reason for taking it down, and if they have a problem with that, they can come here and take it up with you... How about that?

 

I can't speak for others here, but it's your blog, so you can do whatever you want with it. That way anyone who goes to your blog will eventually find this thread.

Edited April 3, 2010 by diablo272

[86834 10]

I'm just so surprised no one can understand my frustation here... I tried to help my fellow man, and it just got spat back in my face. I'll leave you guys to it, and I won't bother again in future.

 

Admin please delete my posts and account.

 

Many thanks.

[ktartarotti 10]

I exclusively trade the E-Mini S & P 500, and I have done so for nearly five years. Prior to trading the ES, I applied the very same principles of The Price Volume Relationship onto the Equities Markets. I do not post to any 'blogs.' I have no 'mentorships' for sale. I operate no 'advisory services' where one can subscibe. I only make my living by trading the ES.

 

Spydertrader, thank you for staying relevant to the topic, please feel free to share some more regardless of what people think about your trading methods.

What made you transition from equities to the e-minis?

Do you trade for daily, weekly... %ROI ?

What is your trading style?

Anything else you would consider an important insight for someone seeking to follow your steps and trade the e-minis for a living?

[maxima 10]

I am sure most people are aware of the risk. What kills them (their account rather) is lack of a plan, lack of training, lack of discipline and lack of capital.

Gabe

the 500 margins simply lure noob lemmings onto the edge of the cliff.. the last step they do themselves though..

 

this "activity" is hardly a trading. it just a way to sell brokerage service. Hence dont mix up fallen lemmings with failed traders.

[Spydertrader 10]

What made you transition from equities to the e-minis?

 

Efficiency. Once one learns to see the market signals provided by The Price / Volume Relationship in one market, one simply needs to apply those very same principles onto another - more efficient - market in an effort to earn more money per unit time. With Equities, the various trading fractals devlop over a period of days requiring a trader to hold a position overnight and taking between 4 and 8 days to complete its 'natural cycle.' The same process, in the futures markets, requires 30 minutes (or so). The application of margin requirements (on the futrues markets) also permits a trader to increase their leverage with respect to the percentage of capital applied.

 

Do you trade for daily, weekly... %ROI ?

 

No. I have no idea how long a specific trend may last when that specific trend begins. As it turns out, trends begin and end in the exact same fashion. As a result, one need not know how long a particular trend may last. One only need have the ability to recognize when a trend begins and ends. Instead of focusing on ROI% in an effort to gauge 'success,' I use the market's offer for the specific day traded. Since each trading day offers a different range what percentage (in terms of 'points' or 'tics') of that range (for me) provides a more accurate assesment of that day's activities, and allows for smoother comparisons across a wide variety of day 'types' (e.g. what some might terms as trend vs chop or flat vs wide range day).

 

What is your trading style?

 

I currently trade the Intermediate Level trends which develop on an Intra-Day (5 minute Chart). I use Price and Volume exclusively - having no other indicators on my chart. As a result, the market provides enough signals for me to make between 3 and 7 trades each trading day while remaining in cash positions overnight. I only trade between 9:30 AM and 4:00 PM (Eastern Time).

 

Anything else you would consider an important insight for someone seeking to follow your steps and trade the e-minis for a living?

 

Irrresepective of trading methodology chosen, everyone aspiring to earn a living from trading the markets (any market), should take the time needed to develop the knowledge, skills and experience required. No need for forging ahead recklessly exists. The markets aren't going anywhere anytime soon, and as a result, applying real capital into any market prior to developing a plan represents a foolish proposition.

 

Understand the length of time such a commitment involves - right up front - and do not set arbitrary time limits for one's education.

 

And one last time (just to be perfectly clear), do not apply real capital to your trading until you have a very clear understanding of every single aspect of your specific trading methodology.

 

Good trading to you all.

 

- Spydertrader

[maxima 10]

And one last time (just to be perfectly clear), do not apply real capital to your trading until you have a very clear understanding of every single aspect of your specific trading methodology.

 

- Spydertrader

Be honest, tell the truth. Is that what you did exactly? You were studying, learning for years on paper... and then one day you thought - I am finally ready.... You pulled sock full of cash from under the matress and went to your local brokerage firm and started to trade...

 

Is that really?

[TradeRunner 10]

You were studying, learning for years on paper... and then one day you thought - I am finally ready....

 

I can't imagine why you wouldn't start like that. If you can't consistently make money on sim then why bother wasting capital trading live?

[maxima 10]

Because day trading is a performace related activity (see Brett Steenbarger for what it means). And hoping that you will prepare only using paper account is same as drawing bycicles instead of riding one.

[BlowFish 10]

That's not the only logic that is flawed from his reasoning. If you only trade with risk capital, this means you have enough funds, or other income to live on besides the risk capital that you can afford to lose. This means you are not really trading for a living; you are only playing around, or supplementing or hoping to supplement, your income.

 

Cant imagine how people could possibly succeed without other means to support themselves while they learn. Of course just because I can't imagine it dosen't mean that some remarkable individual hasn't done it.......still can't see it though

[TradeRunner 10]

Because day trading is a performace related activity (see Brett Steenbarger for what it means). And hoping that you will prepare only using paper account is same as drawing bycicles instead of riding one.

 

Sorry I don't follow you argument - its performance related and requires loads of practice. What is your point?

 

I guess you would start with this

 

 

and skip this?

 

 

and then this

 

 

You learn to ride a bike using stabilisers.

 

TradeRunner

[zdo 20]

The middle photo is not sim...

[Cory2679 11]

The middle photo is not sim...

 

Sure it is...it's doing the same activity, but without the pressure/real risk...serves the same purpose.

 

The fact is that if you can't make money SIM, you can't make money live. It's perfectly reasonable to practice in SIM before going live.