Does Anyone Truly Make a Living Solely Trading the E-minis???

[forrestang 10]

It's really interesting to watch. I'm sure all of you will agree with me here, even if you don't chose to voice your opinions, that 'trading communities' like this with their monderators, thanked post counts, number post contributed are basically an online hierarchical arrangement of individuals into divisions of percieved trading credibility, which is just social stratification. As mentioned above, this just causes a power struggle as people fight for their place in the pecking order because people want to be 'the one'...that trader in the community that people acknowlege as being successful and who's opinions are worthy. So as the majority of people fight it out for their place, and just look around this forum, you can find plenty of posts of people fighting amongst each other, trying to disprove other people, and the various witch hunts that have run rampent within threads.... it's clear to see that the original conception and ideology of the group which was to help share information and education about trading has just taking a complete back seat as people fight for their place in the social order.

 

I have only "flipped" through this thread, and my intention is not to take sides. But I find this one comment I have quoted above interesting, and I agree with it 100%. I have had the exact same thoughts as above about the hierarchical structure that takes place on the forums.... This forum happens to be a tiny little microcosm of the real world and naturally we perform and behave in similar ways we do in society.

 

At first I thought it was cool(thank feature) as this was the first site I had seen it on, now it is more of an annoyance than anything. It often, IMO of course becomes a rather arbitrary and useless statistic at times.... that isn't really about 'thanking' someone for taking the time to make a salient point or taking the time to respond to you personally, but rather a method for showing approval.

 

I've seen the most useless comments(IMO of course) receive thanks for what doesn't appear to be any value added content, but because they are simply trying to show affection, or gratification for someone elses post that happen to run congruent with their beliefs.

 

An example I am imagining just for the sake of argument..... imagine there existed a thread with two schools of thought. Group A believed that trading with anything but price was foolish and that any other way, it is not possible to profit from it. Group B believes that indicators are necessary to assist someone in making decisions. Also in this example, each school of thought has an ambassador(one poster) for each camp.

 

Naturally, there will be supporters for each group..... and the thanks will most likely be used as a voting system to approve/disapprove or show support for a particular belief system, as opposed to a system to thank those for adding actual value-added content.

 

I remember a similar behavior being exhibited in the "Brooks" thread a long time ago, whenever the thread was derailed from a thread about TA, to a thread of some saying this is the "wrong" way. And naturally, those posters with heavy 'thanks' count were constantly being thanked by those either showing approval for their belief system, or naturally filing into the general societal pecking order under certain posters. You would later be able to observe these same 'lower thanked posters' attempting to 'kiss up to' or please the higher thanked posters by deriding the posters discussing TA in that thread in various chat sessions and other threads.

 

I don't know if the behavior from the lower ranked members was because of them just wanting to be on what they perceived as the right side of the hierarchical structure we created, or for altruistic measure so they could remain in good favor with the higher ranked members? But nonetheless I found this behavior interesting.

 

Disclaimer: Not calling anyone out, just making comments about the behavior I seemed to have observed.

[SIUYA 11]

forrestang..... thanks.

I agree with what you are saying, yet as part of the value of open discussion I will back the side of the thanks button. I try to use it so actually say thanks especially to those who I might not agree with, but can acknowledge their point of view.

On a serious note, I actually think that the thanks button is actually good as you can see the names of those who thank, not just a poll, or just another post saying thanks and cluttering things up. Its open and disclosed.

Possibly there is a suggestion here to have two extra buttons..... keep the thanks, add an "I agree" and an "I disagree" button or something similar.

Additionally I think the internet, and its threads do require an extra level of ass kissing and buttering up with everything people say, as context and non verbal (written) ques are extremely important in communication, and this is not possible on line.

 

Humans are like chickens - like pecking orders. If it was not the thanks button, it would be the number of posts, the number of threads started..... anything.

At least this way I feel that thanks which is often not offered freely enough in society is a nice thing.

 

I also found this a while ago....

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

[TheBigMan 10]

I traded for a living about nine years ago. I started with Datek which is no longer in existence and then I went to Speedtrader. My success was due more to common sense & luck because my knowledge was minimal at best. I made about 150K in 13 months. I then became a landlord. I plan on returning to Trading come the first of the year as soon as I settle on the sale of my apartment building. Now I will be playing with between 3 & 5 hundred K. I am taking these couple of months to reacquaint myself with the market by learning the routine of the ten stocks I will play with.

I must admit it is very scary and there is so much information out there to interpret. :crap: The benefit I have is that a can stay away from the smaller stocks which tend to have more volatility in them. I don't even plan on using any margin until I feel comfortable with the way things have changed and work now.

 

If anyone has any help, suggestions it will be appreciated.

[TheBigMan 10]

To become a full time traders, it will take years. Full time trader is smiliar to becoming a lawyer, Doctors, etc. The problem is many people believe day trading es is "get rich quick." If it takes 5 yrs to become a doctor, it will take 5 yrs to become a full time trader. I have no clue why people believe they can become a full time trader less than 1 yr. If that is true, why does it take a long time to become a doctor, lawyer, etc.

 

According to the Gov report, 97% of the people lose trading in the futures market. One of the reason they lose is, they failed to understand trading futures involves substantial risk and only risk capital should be used. All brokerages and few trading school websites have those risk disclaimer. But for some reason, most people FAILED or ignore the risk disclaimer.

 

For those who are a successful full time traders took them yrs to get there. Plus, they fully understood that trading es is NOT A GET RICH QUICK and trading futures involves SUBSTANTIAL RISK!!!!!!

 

hope this help

 

I have to respectfully disagree. With stocks which is all I know about, your chances are 50/50 In all fairness to that, you can throw a dart and you have a fifty percent chance it will go up. There is no other places for it to go. Up, Down... That's it. Now if you incorporate stop losses, when you lose you don't lose much. Sure that is in really simple terms but it is the truth.

Now as you hone your skills you will become more proficient and therefor increase the amount of profitable trades.

[HighStakes 10]

I have to respectfully disagree. With stocks which is all I know about, your chances are 50/50 In all fairness to that, you can throw a dart and you have a fifty percent chance it will go up. There is no other places for it to go. Up, Down... That's it. Now if you incorporate stop losses, when you lose you don't lose much. Sure that is in really simple terms but it is the truth.

Now as you hone your skills you will become more proficient and therefor increase the amount of profitable trades.

 

This post does not make sense.

 

You believe that the markets are random and that there is a 50% probability that it will go either up or down? Flip a coin?

 

Then you say that "as you hone your skills you will become more proficient....."

 

Which is exactly the point emg was making. It takes time to learn trading and the failure rate is high.

 

Markets can go up, down AND sideways. Add commissions and slippage and it is easy to understand how someone who is not "proficient" can quickly become broke, especially trading leveraged instruments like futures.

[johnnyh 10]

8675309- you have way too much time on your hands to be a fund manager. I have been trading the curve for 4 yrs, sole source of income for wife and 3 kids. Own a Cbot AM seat, and a cme IMM. Get over yourself.

Back to the topic: no I do not know a single person making a living off soley es.

[TheBigMan 10]

This post does not make sense.

 

You believe that the markets are random and that there is a 50% probability that it will go either up or down? Flip a coin?

 

Then you say that "as you hone your skills you will become more proficient....."

 

Which is exactly the point emg was making. It takes time to learn trading and the failure rate is high.

 

Markets can go up, down AND sideways. Add commissions and slippage and it is easy to understand how someone who is not "proficient" can quickly become broke, especially trading leveraged instruments like futures.

 

 

In that regard, yes you are right.

[WorldTrader 10]

Do you consider The CL, GC or NG an emini? I trade with limited risk and make about 2K a day. You can easily make a living as a trader. Now, I don't make 2K every day, some Break Even, some 1K, but when I get my trades early I am done and move on with my life.

[TDEMT 10]

Interesting stories, that is for sure. I have been trading eminis for 2 full years now and I just finally "figured it out", at least what works for me. I spent a lot of cash going through the usual "newbie route"...buying systems and trading room subscriptions. Nothing worked.

 

What did work was a lot of inner soul searching. Now, I have made the "corner".

 

I started an educational site that tells my story. Check it out. Perhaps it will help some of those out who have a a lot of questions, as I did. The difference was, nobody ever really shared information that helped me.

 

I know that I will make a full time living by successfully trading intra day the emini contracts like ES and NQ. It is all in your head...it is not with flashy cool looking vendor's systems.

[Ants88 10]

There's only one way to learn - through others - their experience, their methods, their reasoning - join us free on skype daily - Traders Conference

[EminiTradingCoach 10]

Your logic seems flawed.

Are you saying that if one is aware of the risk associated with trading then they will not lose?

I am sure most people are aware of the risk. What kills them (their account rather) is lack of a plan, lack of training, lack of discipline and lack of capital.

 

Gabe

 

I think there is a big difference between being aware of the risk and actually accepting the risk.

[MightyMouse 12]

I think there is a big difference between being aware of the risk and actually accepting the risk.

 

What do you perceive to be the big difference between being aware of the risk and accepting it and how can one put that to practical use?

[TimRacette 11]

I would like to open this topic to offer a thread of hope to all of those that find it impossible to believe that one can actually make a living trading solely the e-minis.

 

I trade the ES and 6E, they compliment each other nicely. I know a handful of traders that just trade the SPOOS (big contract) solely and make a nice living. I also have colleagues that trade the ES/6E and make a great living as well.

 

I myself have been trading the two for about 2 years and have grown consistently profitable trading 4-ES contracts and 2-6E contracts. I'm + almost every week since Labor Day and my down weeks haven't detracted much from my winning weeks. I keep my risk extremely small 0.5% per trade so that's why I haven't gone to more contracts. I'm pretty young so my account is still in the 5 figures.

 

With a 100k account trading the ES nd 6E using this tick you could do some serious damage easily making 50-100k a year. But like other trader's have expressed it all comes in practice and experience. I've got friends on the trading floor who have been there 25+ years. Granted pit trading is a different game than screen trading, but if they can do it there's no reason you can't either.

 

--

Tim Racette

URL Removed by Moderator

[TheDude 10]

8675309- you have way too much time on your hands to be a fund manager. I have been trading the curve for 4 yrs, sole source of income for wife and 3 kids. Own a Cbot AM seat, and a cme IMM. Get over yourself.

Back to the topic: no I do not know a single person making a living off soley es.

 

I don't know a single movie star. I know they exist though.

 

Seriously, whats the fuss about? Of course you can make a living trading just ES. Or YM, NQ 6E, US, GE, TY, stocks etc. The only thing that stops people doing it is themselves and poor market understanding from reading the typical drivel like Elder and other 'How to' books.

 

I think people are looking for a step-by step guide for trading - an instruction manual. 'If this, then do that'. Is it any wonder most find it so hard?

[TheNegotiator 13]

Being aware of risk is knowing it is there and not doing anything about it. Accepting risk hopefully leads to trying to quantify and legislate for it as part of a cohesive trading plan.

[MadMarketScientist 11]

Trading all day is too much for me ... a small profit or loss each day and I move onto something else ... so no, I don't make a living solely on the e-mini

 

MMS

[bigsnack 10]

Same here. I trade to compliment my income, but it is not my sole source. I've contemplated upping size and trying full time, but it makes me nervous. Keeping the 9-5 helps me stay relaxed while trading.

[TimRacette 11]

Same here. I trade to compliment my income, but it is not my sole source. I've contemplated upping size and trying full time, but it makes me nervous. Keeping the 9-5 helps me stay relaxed while trading.

 

There's a lot of benefits of having supplemental income or a passive income stream, especially when making the switch or trying out full time trading. Timothy Ferris's book the 4-hr Work Week is a great attest to that.

[tradeemini500 10]

Do you consider The CL, GC or NG an emini? I trade with limited risk and make about 2K a day. You can easily make a living as a trader. Now, I don't make 2K every day, some Break Even, some 1K, but when I get my trades early I am done and move on with my life.

 

This is one of the biggest pieces to remaining a successful trader and making it as a full-time trader. I've seen too many traders make 5k+ in the morning and give it all back by the end of the day because they believe they are in sync with the market or know what the market is going to do next.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Moderated Message:

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Edited November 9, 2011 by TheNegotiator

[TimRacette 11]

Limiting yourself to two full stop outs on the day allows you to keep the gains you have accumulated and limits your risk if you start off the day with a losing trade. Trade small when you are losing, trade big when you are winning.

[Cagineer 10]

Yes you CAN most definiteloy make a good living off the e minis s&p.

If you are trading 1 lot, hoeer, there is no way. But if you trade consistently profitablly for 3 month, say increase your lots to 3, then try 5 til you get a decent size of trading power.

 

Trades with 15-20 lots are not uncommon! Mind you, the standard commissions apply on a "per lot per trade" basis in most cases. Check with your broker.

[pgain 10]

so I see everyone talked about trading and said silly things

But no answered the question you asked

[Ants88 10]

so I see everyone talked about trading and said silly things

But no answered the question you asked

 

I'll answer it. I trade the eMini but do not make a living from the trading.

 

 

Moderated Message:

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Edited November 9, 2011 by TheNegotiator

[steve46 12]

so I see everyone talked about trading and said silly things

But no answered the question you asked

 

I am retired and don't need the money, I am trading only the ES contract and yes I do make enough to live on if I had to...

 

Good luck

[mnctigah 10]

Yes. I have been making my living solely trading the ES for the past 3+ years.

 

But I must say that before then I was a horrible trader (primarily due to poor risk management principles). Giving back weeks of profits being on the wrong side of trend days.

 

It was only due to the efforts of some prop traders (and this is not a plug - won't even mention their firm) that turned my trading around. I can't even count the number of accounts that I blew out.

 

I'm new to posting on this board and because those prop traders took the time to help me, I feel that I have a debt to repay by helping others. True professional trading has nothing to do with setups, technical analysis, or any of the commonly accepted garbage that is out there.

 

I have nothing to gain. nothing to sell, and my only motivation is to help traders who are in search of valid trading information to fill the void...

 

Ronnie