Noob Questions

[Dcash 10]

this question is way out of the ball park.

 

i tried to tell people trading is not a job... you don't get paid because you have spent 8 hours in front of the screen.

 

and people would say... yea yea yea... you don't have to preach to me, i know, i know... it is not a job, i know....

 

although they say they know...

although they say it is not a job,

but they are approaching trading as if it is a job.

 

your question is a prime example.

you don't don't get a ROI per month.

at least, you don't approach it as if you will get a ROI per month.

you don't even get a ROI per year.

this is trading, not a job.

 

then people will say...

yea yea yea, i know... trading is not a job,

i have to treat it like a business, right?

 

wrong again.

trading is not a business

many people (esp the system vendors) would want you to think so

sure a business plan sounds impressive,

and money management skill is important, right?

but let me tell yo uthe truth...

trading is not a business

 

but worry not,

you will soon find the answer,

the real answer

the answer that would satisfy you,

whether you like it or not.

 

have a good day.

 

;-)>

 

 

now I'm more confused first I as not including enough information to guess at an ROI and was told in the zen wisdom responces that when I had the information that any noob could figure it out, also that it was a spoon feeding question that I should have found before i even bother the gods on this form with. to it is not a question that can be answered. wow and it is all followd by the wrath of the gods section where i will get my just rewards for daring to ask the question.

 

Tams again thanks for the time spent on your part but really if you do not know or care to try to answer my questions it is ok, no need to call down lightning on me.

[Tams 20]

now I'm more confused first I as not including enough information to guess at an ROI and was told in the zen wisdom responces that when I had the information that any noob could figure it out, also that it was a spoon feeding question that I should have found before i even bother the gods on this form with. to it is not a question that can be answered. wow and it is all followd by the wrath of the gods section where i will get my just rewards for daring to ask the question.

 

Tams again thanks for the time spent on your part but really if you do not know or care to try to answer my questions it is ok, no need to call down lightning on me.

 

 

as in any forum, treat each response as an independent response.

 

as in any forum, treat each response as an individual response.

 

as in any forum, YMMV with each response.

 

as in any forum, no response is absolute.

 

as in any forum, ignore what you don't want to hear, and move on.

no need to tell people not to response, simply don't respond to the response yourself.

 

 

6 months from now, when you revisit this thread, you will see things differently.

[Dcash 10]

I still don't think you know what you are talking about.

without the proper reference, no wonder nobody wants to give you any response.

but then, this is the least of my worries, because you will soon find out how things work,

one way or another.

 

 

very real possability and most likely why I'm in the beginners forum asking questions and also why I have no emotional currency involved in this thread. as to nobody wanting to give any response, as i pointed out several posts ago this thread now has close to 2x the total # of post in the beginners forum outside of this thread for the week up to now, so I don't think im too distraught about no one answering my questions in here (or supprised) I'm looking at other sources at the same time (never believe all that you read on the web). as to finding out how things work, that is the goal for me and IMO should be the goal for all (but that is just my openion).

 

thanks for your time and I have learned a few things from your posts to my topic.

[Tams 20]

very real possability and most likely why I'm in the beginners forum asking questions and also why I have no emotional currency involved in this thread. as to nobody wanting to give any response, as i pointed out several posts ago this thread now has close to 2x the total # of post in the beginners forum outside of this thread for the week up to now, so I don't think im too distraught about no one answering my questions in here (or supprised) I'm looking at other sources at the same time (never believe all that you read on the web). as to finding out how things work, that is the goal for me and IMO should be the goal for all (but that is just my openion).

 

thanks for your time and I have learned a few things from your posts to my topic.

 

 

you missed the whole point of the post.

the key phrase should be:

without the proper reference, no wonder nobody wants to give you any response.

 

and really, if you think it is too much trouble to reference the URL or copy the text from your source, I don't think we can ever be on the same page.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Tams

[Dcash 10]

as in any forum, treat each response as an independent response.

 

great except the responce is in refrence to a previous responce and as such cannot be responded to without responce in part to original responce

 

as in any forum, treat each response as an individual response.

 

also great except the respondant joined the thread by agreeing with other individule as such I must assume that original individuals responces are included

 

as in any forum, YMMV with each response.

 

thanks but this is a given and should be a foundation for anyones presence on the internet

 

as in any forum, no response is absolute.

 

would also agree with this

 

as in any forum, ignore what you don't want to hear, and move on.

no need to tell people not to response, simply don't respond to the response yourself.

 

as the person starting the thread and asking the question I feel the responceability to point out any discrepenacys or missconceptions and to re-focus the discussion when it misses the original point, which I have been doing. also for you to tell me to not respond instead of pointing out the option of not to respond to people that appear not to want to offer valid responces or become irritated by the question posed, as the original thread poster, i find this to be somewhat of a hoot. in short if you want the last word you can have it just start your own thread

 

 

6 months from now, when you revisit this thread, you will see things differently.

 

you are right I most likely will and I think that this can be said of most anyone that is truely learning.

 

Thanks for the information and hopefully someone can answer the other questions that i asked

[Tams 20]

>as in any forum, ignore what you don't want to hear, and move on.

no need to tell people not to response, simply don't respond to the response yourself.

 

as the person starting the thread and asking the question I feel the responceability to point out any discrepenacys or missconceptions and to re-focus the discussion when it misses the original point, which I have been doing. also for you to tell me to not respond instead of pointing out the option of not to respond to people that appear not to want to offer valid responces or become irritated by the question posed, as the original thread poster, i find this to be somewhat of a hoot. in short if you want the last word you can have it just start your own thread

 

 

in a public forum, you are free to post questions,

in a public forum, anybody is free to post answers,

including those you do not comprehend, or those you do not agree, or those you might find irritating because it is not the answer you are looking for...

 

you can choose to ignore those responses...

but... don't ever think you can ask people to stop responding to a public forum.

you can stop posting, but asking others to stop posting ??!?!?! LOL

[Dcash 10]

you missed the whole point of the post.

the key phrase should be:

without the proper reference, no wonder nobody wants to give you any response.

 

and really, if you think it is too much trouble to reference the URL or copy the text from your source, I don't think we can ever be on the same page.

 

frame of refrence

 

question : how does margin work for a futures contract?

 

given assumptions: $10k account, 4 to 1 margin fx futures contract (eurusd for instance) on $125k worth of currency ie how many contracts can I work with at the same time, is there something specific i missed?

 

I really do not know how to be any more specific.

 

Thanks for the help

[Tams 20]

that is $2 per contract each way one entry and 1 exit on any position this is not counting any fees associated with adjusting OCO trades for something like trailing stops which i understand are charged for also.

 

I think you are confusing yourself.

dig up the commission chart and do the math properly.

[Dcash 10]

in a public forum, you are free to post questions,

in a public forum, anybody is free to post answers,

including those you do not comprehend, or those you do not agree, or those you might find irritating because it is not the answer you are looking for...

 

you can choose to ignore those responses...

but... don't ever think you can ask people to stop responding to a public forum.

you can stop posting, but asking others to stop posting ??!?!?! LOL

 

when did i ask anyone to stop posting I mearly stated that I understand if you do not want to post. I never ask or told you to not respond just stated that I understand if you do not want to respond and on top of that have thanked you in all of my responces to your posts. ontop of that in my mind it is rude to ask a question and not atleast acknowage that someone has taken the time to attempt to answer your question so for me the chosesing to not respond to someone who post to my thread is not an option

Edited March 22, 2010 by Dcash

[Tams 20]

frame of refrence

 

question : how does margin work for a futures contract?

 

given assumptions: $10k account, 4 to 1 margin fx futures contract (eurusd for instance) on $125k worth of currency ie how many contracts can I work with at the same time, is there something specific i missed?

 

I really do not know how to be any more specific.

 

Thanks for the help

 

 

which URL did you get this information ????

 

how many time do I need to tell you to get the URL and copy the text ????

[Dcash 10]

I think you are confusing yourself.

dig up the commission chart and do the math properly.

 

maybe you are correct I will recheck that, also i take it that the $8 per round trip with IB on CME fx future contracts does not sound right?

 

thanks

[Dcash 10]

which URL did you get this information ????

 

how many time do I need to tell you to get the URL and copy the text ????

 

from this http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/24/possible-start-trading-forex-1000-a-84-10.html

 

 

"I haven't read through all the posts in this thread, but in my opinion you should know what is the lowest starting amount based on your system. For me, I hit between 50% and 60% and I know this because of my trading data, not backtested data. As with any system, the risk of ruin is highest at the starting gate, so I would give yourself enough room to place at least five trades (unless you have a much higher win rate), with the 5th starting at a balance of around $510 if your margin is $500. I know that at some point I will run off a few losers in a row, so this takes into account the chance that it may happen at the start. While my balance is much greater than the $1,000, this is not different than the way I trade everyday. Each time I up the number of contracts I trade, I make sure that always eat 5 losses in a row before I am required downsize due to margin. So to answer the question, if your average loss is around $100-$150 per contract, then yes, you can easily start with around $1,000. At the same time, if you do not use sound money management, you will eventually get crushed. I move cash from my trading account to my bank account each time I double, and I maintain a cash reserve in order to post up more cash for those times when I experience a number of losses in a row which happens a few times a year."

 

 

this is the kind of thing that confuses me as i calculate it I would need to have about 30k in my acount to trade 1 fx future contract where this post indicates that you can start with 1k ?

 

so again my question is how does margin work for future contracts?

[Tams 20]

from this http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/24/possible-start-trading-forex-1000-a-84-10.html

 

 

"I haven't read through all the posts in this thread, but in my opinion you should know what is the lowest starting amount based on your system. For me, I hit between 50% and 60% and I know this because of my trading data, not backtested data. As with any system, the risk of ruin is highest at the starting gate, so I would give yourself enough room to place at least five trades (unless you have a much higher win rate), with the 5th starting at a balance of around $510 if your margin is $500. I know that at some point I will run off a few losers in a row, so this takes into account the chance that it may happen at the start. While my balance is much greater than the $1,000, this is not different than the way I trade everyday. Each time I up the number of contracts I trade, I make sure that always eat 5 losses in a row before I am required downsize due to margin. So to answer the question, if your average loss is around $100-$150 per contract, then yes, you can easily start with around $1,000. At the same time, if you do not use sound money management, you will eventually get crushed. I move cash from my trading account to my bank account each time I double, and I maintain a cash reserve in order to post up more cash for those times when I experience a number of losses in a row which happens a few times a year."

 

 

this is the kind of thing that confuses me as i calculate it I would need to have about 30k in my acount to trade 1 fx future contract where this post indicates that you can start with 1k ?

 

so again my question is how does margin work for future contracts?

 

 

 

go to the source

 

if IB is your broker... go to IB's website

if TS is your broker... go to TS's website

 

look up margin requirments... and go from there.

[Tams 20]

...so again my question is how does margin work for future contracts?

 

 

future margin is the amount you put up when you initiate the contract.

 

IB's website has detailed

-- listing

-- introductory explanation

-- calculations

-- examples

-- real life monitoring

[Dcash 10]

"future margin is the amount you put up when you initiate the contract."

 

 

thanks Tams this part i missed i kept looking at the stock margin % and futures margins do not work the same so you have to have cash in the amount of the intraday margin amount in order to trade 1 contract ok another one down which would explane why people are indicating that 5k is enough to trade single car in the fx futures market.

[BlowFish 10]

You might want to look here TradersCALM - Calculating risk of ruin to answer your question about what sort of return a competent trader might expect to make. All you need to know is here. You will quickly see that it depends on the nature of your edge (%winners - average winning points - average losing points) and the biggy what sort of risk you are prepared to accept. (By risk I mean risk of blowing up your account not risk on any particular trade though the 2 are correlated).

 

You can probably find an excel spreadsheet knocking around that will allow you to see how changing different variables effects things. These variables will be different for every trader which is why there is not one size fits all.

[TradeRunner 10]

wrong again.

trading is not a business

many people (esp the system vendors) would want you to think so

sure a business plan sounds impressive,

and money management skill is important, right?

but let me tell yo uthe truth...

trading is not a business

 

Hi Tams

 

Why do you think trading is not a business?

 

TradeRunner

[Dcash 10]

You might want to look here TradersCALM - Calculating risk of ruin to answer your question about what sort of return a competent trader might expect to make. All you need to know is here. You will quickly see that it depends on the nature of your edge (%winners - average winning points - average losing points) and the biggy what sort of risk you are prepared to accept. (By risk I mean risk of blowing up your account not risk on any particular trade though the 2 are correlated).

 

You can probably find an excel spreadsheet knocking around that will allow you to see how changing different variables effects things. These variables will be different for every trader which is why there is not one size fits all.

 

thanks BF i will do that and many thanks to Tams for time spent in helping me understand several things