Noob Questions

[Dcash 10]

ok so in the process of doing due diligance I find myself confused about some things (and yes I have spent lots of hours lurking here looking and using search)

 

for someone planning to scalp the CME FX market futures 1min to 60min bars:

1. what are the transaction costs per contract RT (assume IB and Serria charts I calculated about $8 per rt but am getting conflicting info)?

2. for a $30K account how many contracts could I eventualy trade at a time (not jumping in all at once).

3. what is a realistic ROI trading this size account and alternatly is a $10k account workable (the last part I have found answers to but would still like to see the answers i get here)

4. will i need additional data feeds to go with IB and if so what is the range I should budget to pay.

 

Thanks for helping a Noob out

[sevensa 10]

1. what are the transaction costs per contract RT (assume IB and Serria charts I calculated about $8 per rt but am getting conflicting info)?

Where did you get conflicting information from? The transaction costs are pretty clearly spelled out on IB's website. You don't pay commissions to Sierra Charts, just a monthly fee depending on the options you sign up for.

 

2. for a $30K account how many contracts could I eventualy trade at a time (not jumping in all at once).

What's your initial risk, drawdown, risk tolerance, expectancy?

 

3. what is a realistic ROI trading this size account and alternatly is a $10k account workable (the last part I have found answers to but would still like to see the answers i get here)

 

If you can answer the questions above at #2, you would be able to calculate this yourself. As a beginner, any positive ROI would be huge.

 

4. will i need additional data feeds to go with IB and if so what is the range I should budget to pay.

It depends on your requirements and if you need true bid:ask. IQ-feed and e-signal are popular datafeeds. You can look up their fees. Zen-Fire is also popular and free via certain brokers.

 

Frankly, you are putting the cart in front of the horse. Start with 1 contract and see if you are profitable. By the time you are (if ever), you will be able to answer the questions above yourself.

[Dcash 10]

Where did you get conflicting information from? The transaction costs are pretty clearly spelled out on IB's website. You don't pay commissions to Sierra Charts, just a monthly fee depending on the options you sign up for. from this forum with people throwing numbers like $4 per RT where I calculated closer to $8 with the fee for CME, is $8 close to the mark?

 

 

What's your initial risk, drawdown, risk tolerance, expectancy? $30k, $2k, med to high, that was the question. and the question was intended to help me further define these also there is a huge diff between calculated and actual.

 

 

 

If you can answer the questions above at #2, you would be able to calculate this yourself. As a beginner, any positive ROI would be huge. please expound on this comment

 

 

It depends on your requirements and if you need true bid:ask. IQ-feed and e-signal are popular datafeeds. You can look up their fees. Zen-Fire is also popular and free via certain brokers. yes I can look up the costs and have but what is the diff. between the data feed that IB provides for free with an account and one with true bid:ask. I'm currently paying for SC with its feed that includes bid:ask on eurusd (not futures) and was trying to find out if i need to budget for other feeds after I get the IB feeds for free

 

Frankly, you are putting the cart in front of the horse. Start with 1 contract and see if you are profitable. By the time you are (if ever), you will be able to answer the questions above yourself. you are not really into the spirit of all of this are you the plan is to start with one contract and when I'm making a profit you are right i will know all the answers so maybe we should all stay away from the forum untill we have all of the questions answered. I feel that I have put in a good amount of time and research and I'm asking the right questions (correct me if i'm missing the important points) in the beginer forum no less, but I think that we all agree that there is a lot of miss-information on the internet in general and on all of the original ?s I have recieved enough confliction answers that I thought I would ask specific to the point questions and maybe be able to discern a reasonable answer.

 

 

thank you for responding to my post but I think the most that I can pull out of your responce is that I irritated you by posting and the same old 95% go broke (I think I have gotten that clearly before now) but I also got the flip side of that mind set is that the 5% are the ones searching for the answers (not that there is any one answer), which leads me to check the information that I am gleaning from reading threads that are often in contridiction to other threads and with themselfs ( and no I'm not looking for the HG).

 

Thanks

[Dcash 10]

ok after rereading Sevensa's post several times I may have taken his comments the wrong way if so I apolagize.

 

Thanks

[Dcash 10]

wow whats the deal around here I write a long and detailed responce and it gets lost but a short one right after it gets posted right away lol

[sevensa 10]

thank you for responding to my post but I think the most that I can pull out of your responce is that I irritated you by posting and the same old 95% go broke (I think I have gotten that clearly before now) but I also got the flip side of that mind set is that the 5% are the ones searching for the answers (not that there is any one answer), which leads me to check the information that I am gleaning from reading threads that are often in contridiction to other threads and with themselfs ( and no I'm not looking for the HG).

 

Thanks

 

No, you didn't irritate me. But you will find that not many people here are into spoon feeding and answering questions that have readily available answers or require you to put a little effort in, or questions that simply cannot be answered, even though you might think they are perfectly logical questions. The lack of responses to your questions should give you a hint.

 

If you want to know what IB's commissions are, why don't you look on their website, pick up the phone and call them, or send them an e-mail? Their commissions are clearly spelled out on their website. Why would you not go to the source, but instead ask on a forum and then complain that you are getting contradicting information? Questions like that, should always go to the source. Do you think IB is going to give you certain commission structure because some person on the internet told you that is what they should?

 

If you want to know how many contracts you can trade with a $30K account, divide $30K by the margin of the market you want to trade to get the number of contracts. Should you be trading that many? I wouldn't. You are the only one who can answer that question based on your risk, drawdown, risk tolerance, expectancy, etc. If you don't know what those are, then trade one contract until you do.

 

You are asking what is a realistic ROI on an account. This is like me asking you what would be a realistic score for me in my next round of golf. How would you answer that without knowing anything about me and my abilities? You said yourself that 95% go broke (this number is highly debatable, but irrelevant for now). You don't even know yet if you are profitable and part of that 5%, but already want to know how much money you can make. Based on the averages, you should expect to have a negative ROI.

 

With regard to datafeed, IB might be good enough for you. I don't know. It depend on what your requirements are and based on your reply, you don't know what your requirements are. If you don't know that, how would someone be able to answer your question then? The differences between the feeds has been discussed numerous times before. Asking this question contradict you saying that you have done hours of research. I've just typed in "difference between IB data feed and esignal" in Google and found numerous hits explaining that. That took me seconds, not hours.

 

With regard of being in the spirit of it.. you asked, I answered. It is just my opinion and you can just ignore it if you don't agree with me. I will however, give you one more unsolicited opinion that you are not going to like, but again, feel free to ignore... If you think you are asking the right questions, then IMHO, you are not nearly ready yet.

 

On that note, I will bowe out of this thread. Good luck in your trading and I hope you find answers to your questions that you find useful.

[Dcash 10]

well first off thank you for the responce second I have searched the web and came away with stuff like this eSignal vs. IB data feeds which indicates that the IB feed in many cases is better that Esignal, but in reading thru threads here i come away with a diffrent conclusion (most of that comes from posts that are somewhat criptic and tend to treat trading as a black art not a structured profession) I was hopeing that by asking the question directly i could get a direct answer (no such luck so far).

 

as to not looking up the info on IB as we all know there are always more than 1 way to do things and I agree with you never take the word of some one on the web but I often back up my findings by checking what other people are doing and when I see contridicting responces I start looking for things like a second rate structure. as I stated in my original post i calced it out at close to $8 per RT but see posts with about $4 per RT and was hoping that some one would point out what i'm missing such as "Duh Noob use the unbundled rates" which they have but i have not found that they are all that much better. and no I do not expect IB to give me a better rate because of some thing that someone here told them to but I often find that you do not always get the best rates unless you ask for it and know what to ask for. all in all this is the Beginer section and is it that hard for some one that uses IB for future trading on the CME to chime in with "yea that is about what i pay " or "no you Noob use this".

 

as to the margin I must confess I do not know anything about futures contracts (my limited experiance is with buy and hold) but they are worth $125000 and with a 4 to 1 margin it looks like I could trade 1 contract but then I get answers like 1 per every $5000 account (again the discrepency thing) and if you feel like this kind of stuff is spoon feeding me then maybe you are in the wrong section because this is the "Beginers section" and answers like "go away untill you know this stuff" are not very helpful. Where did i indicate that I wanted to jump in and trade max contracts? the answer is that i did not, i even stated "(not jumping in all at once)" but the answer sure gives me information on scalability.

 

ok so being a noob I know that the slick adds stating you can become a millionare over night are ploys to take my money and on the other side you can lose a lot of money in a hurry in the market. by following the 2009 and 2010 P/L thread i get the impression that 20% per month on a $10k account is realistic for some one that is reasonable good at trading. and my question about ROI was a general question about trading (specificly scalping the fx futures market) and the responce is "you will lose money if you get in right now" duh! why would i be in the beginers section asking questions if i believed otherwise and not out making kazillions of $ (overnight no less). I also believe that a discussion of this topic is of benifit to the beginners.

 

This all boils down to again this is the beginners section and it is not that i do not agree or dislike your opinion but that thre opinion you have chosen to experess has no berring on the task at hand and is not very informative to boot. My method of learning is that I read all I can I experiment with what I learn and I ask questions about the parts that I do not understand, which I always thought was the way to learn so when i get responces like "With regard of being in the spirit of it.. you asked, I answered. It is just my opinion and you can just ignore it if you don't agree with me. I will however, give you one more unsolicited opinion that you are not going to like, but again, feel free to ignore... If you think you are asking the right questions, then IMHO, you are not nearly ready yet." I find myself checking to see if I posted in the right section of the forum. I guess that I find myself ready to take ridicule when asking noob questions in a beginers section but am totaly confused by the Zen "your not ready grasshopper" responce. Maybe your point is to discourge beginers on this forum and your hope is that by telling me basicly to go do my homework i will just srink from your omnipitent presence, sorry I do not work that way (and never did understand why some people like to do that, if you do not want to help just don't respond) I have done my home work (and feel that asking questions in the beginners forum is part of my homework). If you do not have or know relevent answers to my questions or if you are unable to express them in a manor that is understandable by some one with my limited level of understanding then so be it, hopefuly someone else can help me out.

 

so I guess that if you want to bow out of this thread it will be ok with me since your help is not really help and could have been summed up with "yes you are a noob" to which my responce would have been "yes you are right", so thank you for confirming what i already know but at least we increased the post count in the beginers forum (I wonder why it is so low?). (edit and woo hoo i now do not get the delayed post thing

 

to end this rant I have followed many of your posts (sevensa) and feel that all in all you are a great asset to this comunity but just disagree with your method in this case.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Dcash

[Tams 20]

...

 

so I guess that if you want to bow out of this thread it will be ok with me since your help is not really help and could have been summed up with "yes you are a noob" to which my responce would have been "yes you are right", so thank you for confirming what i already know but at least we increased the post count in the beginers forum (I wonder why it is so low?). (edit and woo hoo i now do not get the delayed post thing

 

to end this rant I have followed many of your posts (sevensa) and feel that all in all you are a great asset to this comunity but just disagree with your method in this case.

 

 

I think many people have bowed out before they begun...

read sevensa again... you might find some wisdom in it.

[Dcash 10]

thank you Tams, which part os sevensa's post do you find the most wisdom in? all i can see is "you cant do it' which i do not accept (and if that is the only wisdom to be had here I must ask the question, what is the point)

for the last week over 1/2 of the posts in the beginners forum have been around my thread which i find sad, do you not see the wisdom in providing more that criptic responces to questions in the beginners forum? unless the point is to provide a private club for those that already know how to trade and if that is the point then why have a beginners section at all?

 

ok the questions still stand if some one wants to take a crack at i would apreciate it and thanks in advance.

 

and I totaly accept everyones right not to help or explane anything but criptic responces will cause me to to continualy ask for clearifications. so if you get tired of this, stop posting in this thread or make an attempt at being helpfull. as to the repeted sugestions that my questions are not worthy of responces I would have to assume that this section of the forum is not widely supported by looking at the shear number of posts which I would have to atribute to the attitudes expressed here.

 

Thanks

[Tams 20]

instead of having me make comments about sevena's post, which might get you more confused, why don't I answer your questions instead?

 

ok so in the process of doing due diligance I find myself confused about some things (and yes I have spent lots of hours lurking here looking and using search)

 

for someone planning to scalp the CME FX market futures 1min to 60min bars:

1. what are the transaction costs per contract RT (assume IB and Serria charts I calculated about $8 per rt but am getting conflicting info)?

 

go to IB's website. All the commissions are listed. They are not secrets, they are the reference.

 

in the future, you should go straight to the source to get informations like these. Don't rely on a public forum for thses info, because you will get yourself confused.

 

 

2. for a $30K account how many contracts could I eventualy trade at a time (not jumping in all at once).

 

divide $30k with the margin requirement.

 

the real question should be: how little should I be trading, so that I don't blow out my account prematurely.

 

 

3. what is a realistic ROI trading this size account and alternatly is a $10k account workable (the last part I have found answers to but would still like to see the answers i get here)

 

if you don't know what you are doing... don't trade.

 

if you don't know what you are doing,

and you are breaking even, you are doing well. (ie zero ROI).

 

if you know what you are doing...

go take the day's chart and measure the swings.

add up all the points of the swings and multiply by the number of contracts you can trade.

That's your mathematical maximum possible ROI.

 

You can choose any ROI in between.

 

4. will i need additional data feeds to go with IB and if so what is the range I should budget to pay.

 

Thanks for helping a Noob out

 

that depends on what kind of trading do you do.

high frequency day trade?

overnight swing trade?

position trade?

 

 

HTH

YMMV

Edited March 21, 2010 by Tams

[Dcash 10]

instead of having me make comments about sevena's post, which might get you more confused, why don't I answer your questions instead?

 

 

 

go to IB's website. All the commissions are listed. They are not secrets, they are the reference.

 

in the future, you should go straight to the source to get informations like these. Don't rely on a public forum for thses info, because you will get yourself confused.

 

as I posted above I have done what you are sugesting and come up with a number of around $8 per trade off the top of my head 2.40 per direction for IB and a little less than 2 per per contract buy/sell for CME fees so i have done that all i was asking is are there any pointers that the people in the trading comunity know that will help me lower this? and I asked this question because I have read some posts that indicated that they were paying way less, if the number that I have found is the correct amount then great, but if i'm missing something it would be better to ask the question in several places and find a better rate before I spend more money than need be, I'm not looking for some one to find the info for me only for someone that is already doing this type of trade to chime in and say yes that is about right or no you are way off

 

 

 

 

divide $30k with the margin requirement.

 

the real question should be: how little should I be trading, so that I don't blow out my account prematurely.

 

as I posted above i'm confused by how margin is applyed to fx future contracts I already know that I need to trade bare mins to get started. the question is how is margin applyed to futures contracts? for stocks a 4 to 1 margin would be a $10k account could work with $40k of stocks but with a futures trade i come up with the need to have close to $30k to trade 1 $125k contract and that is not the information i'm getting from reading posts

 

 

 

 

if you don't know what you are doing... don't trade. again why do you think im in the beginers section asking these questions I know I do not know what I'm doing yet and will not commit real money untill i feel that i know what i'm doing

 

if you don't know what you are doing,

and you are breaking even, you are doing well. (ie zero ROI). the question is not about where i'm at right now but a general question about after i spend the resources to learn what i need to know and if and when i become a reasonably good trader what is reasonable to expect. I have read volumes of information and the answers are all over the place so given the above conditions is a 20% per month on a small account $10k or so, unreasonable?

 

if you know what you are doing...

go take the day's chart and measure the swings.

add up all the points of the swings and multiply by the number of contracts you can trade.

That's your mathematical maximum possible ROI.

 

have been doing this with serria charts and following the swings and have that answer but there is a huge diff between calculated and real world and I was looking for responces from people that are trading real money (which is kind of the point in having a forum IMO) like the whole issus of slippage and unfilled orders which are minor in the big scheme of things but lead me to ask questions designed to look for other things that might not be apperant (before I commit lots of money to this interprise). and my question about margin above also plays into this

You can choose any ROI in between.

 

 

 

that depends on what kind of trading do you do.

high frequency day trade?

overnight swing trade?

position trade?

 

I posted all of the particulars before

 

"for someone planning to scalp the CME FX market futures 1min to 60min bars:"

 

which is why i was supprised by the responces i have recieved in that I thought that I was asking specific questions

 

 

 

HTH

YMMV

 

Tams thanks for atempting to answer my qustions.

[Tams 20]

Tams thanks for atempting to answer my qustions.

 

I was merely answering your first post.

 

if you have spent as much time in preparing your questions in the 1st post,

you might have got your answers sooner.

 

if you spent as much time in understanding people's responses,

maybe you will be not be as frustrated.

 

 

read my post again,

you will find your answers.

 

you are a smart guy, you know your answer already,

you are looking for someone to concur with you.

you get frustrated when people's answer is not what you want to hear...

 

life goes on...

[Tams 20]

sorry... i totally missed the scalp part in the 1st post.

 

in that case,

 

2. one micro contract to start.

 

3. your probable ROI is minus 100% in 6 months.

 

4. IB data is good enough, but then other ppl might think otherwise.

if you have the bucks... go for eSignal or TT.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Tams

[Tams 20]

as I posted above I have done what you are sugesting and come up with a number of around $8 per trade off the top of my head 2.40 per direction for IB and a little less than 2 per per contract buy/sell for CME fees so i have done that all i was asking is are there any pointers that the people in the trading comunity know that will help me lower this? and I asked this question because I have read some posts that indicated that they were paying way less, if the number that I have found is the correct amount then great, but if i'm missing something it would be better to ask the question in several places and find a better rate before I spend more money than need be, I'm not looking for some one to find the info for me only for someone that is already doing this type of trade to chime in and say yes that is about right or no you are way off .

 

 

where and when did this 2 contracts surfaced?

[Tams 20]

as I posted above i'm confused by how margin is applyed to fx future contracts I already know that I need to trade bare mins to get started. the question is how is margin applyed to futures contracts? for stocks a 4 to 1 margin would be a $10k account could work with $40k of stocks but with a futures trade i come up with the need to have close to $30k to trade 1 $125k contract and that is not the information i'm getting from reading posts

 

 

it would help if you can post the URL and copy the text of what you were reading,

ppl can then clarify things for you.

 

it is difficult for ppl to help if you do not comprehend what you have read,

but do not provide and source or references.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Tams

[Tams 20]

>if you don't know what you are doing... don't trade.

 

again why do you think im in the beginers section asking these questions I know I do not know what I'm doing yet and will not commit real money untill i feel that i know what i'm doing

 

>if you don't know what you are doing,

>and you are breaking even, you are doing well. (ie zero ROI).

 

the question is not about where i'm at right now but a general question about after i spend the resources to learn what i need to know and if and when i become a reasonably good trader what is reasonable to expect. I have read volumes of information and the answers are all over the place so given the above conditions is a 20% per month on a small account $10k or so, unreasonable?

 

>if you know what you are doing...

>go take the day's chart and measure the swings.

>add up all the points of the swings and multiply by the number of contracts you can >trade.

>That's your mathematical maximum possible ROI.

 

have been doing this with serria charts and following the swings and have that answer but there is a huge diff between calculated and real world and I was looking for responces from people that are trading real money (which is kind of the point in having a forum IMO) like the whole issus of slippage and unfilled orders which are minor in the big scheme of things but lead me to ask questions designed to look for other things that might not be apperant (before I commit lots of money to this interprise). and my question about margin above also plays into this

 

>You can choose any ROI in between..

 

 

many ppl will tell you this is as good an answer as you will get.

read it again,

if you do not see the wisdom in it, you are on your own.

[Dcash 10]

I was merely answering your first post. Thanks for the attempt

 

if you have spent as much time in preparing your questions in the 1st post,

you might have got your answers sooner.

 

If anyone had spent as much time reading my post as they did comming up with criptic responces they would see that they have been answering all the questions that i'm not asking

 

if you spent as much time in understanding people's responses,

maybe you will be not be as frustrated.

 

all i can say is wow, I have spent a lot of time in digesting the responces and have asked follow up questins in the few cases where I did not understand the responce. can you guys get past the whole "we are gods and know all this but you Noobs will never figure it out thing" I understand the the whole you are not ready to trade thing (really) but we have gone round and round and no matter how i refrase the questions the responces are always twisting to not answer the question but instead answer some thing else

 

 

read my post again,

you will find your answers.

 

you are right there are answers there but they go to a whole diffrent set of questions

 

you are a smart guy, you know your answer already,

 

uuh thanks completly off the subject and unnessacery but thank you

 

you are looking for someone to concur with you.

 

Why? I'm looking or pointers to more information and or comfermation of information I have gathered and have no emotional stake in them, they are just numbers and or facts and weither anyone concurs with them is irrelevant.

 

you get frustrated when people's answer is not what you want to hear...

 

thanks for the time you have spent responding to my questions but really what is frustrating me is that the responces have been to what you think i need to hear with a disreguard to the actual questions, as I stated before if you do not want to answer the question that is fine (don't) if you don't know the answer this is fine also but the whole you will know the answer when it is time or you to know the answer gives a presumed acceptance on my part that the question is closed when in reality you have not answered the questions asked and reads more as shut up and go away, is that really the message to put out in the beginners forum?

 

life goes on...

 

thanks for the time you have spent on this, but really, please if you just want to throw Zen bs at me you are wasting your time

[Dcash 10]

sorry... i totally missed the scalp part in the 1st post.

 

in that case,

 

2. one micro contract to start. thanks for that answer so 1 emini per $10k account is all that a 4 to 1 margin account will cover

 

3. your probable ROI is minus 100% in 6 months. you are answering a question that is did not ask and ignoring the question that i did ask what is a reasonable ROI for someone who knows what they are doing

 

4. IB data is good enough, but then other ppl might think otherwise.

if you have the bucks... go for eSignal or TT.

 

Thanks for this response it helps confirm what i had gathered

 

 

ok a few down and I feel ike this is going some place

[Dcash 10]

it would help if you can post the URL and copy the text of what you were reading,

ppl can then clarify things for you.

 

it is difficult for ppl to help if you do not comprehend what you have read,

but do not provide and source or references.

 

 

this one is pretty simple, anyone trading future contracts on the fx market will probably know the answer offhand but then you already answered this in that a $10k account can only trade 1 eminni with a 4 to 1 margin. If you really want urls to the posts I can look them up but then again the question is very straight forward and an answer to the basic question of how does margin work for futures contracts.

[Dcash 10]

many ppl will tell you this is as good an answer as you will get.

read it again,

if you do not see the wisdom in it, you are on your own.

 

I see the wisdom in the phrase but it really does not have anything to do with the question and again if you do not want to answer the question that is fine. but to rephrase the question

 

for someone who has learned to trade moderatly well is a 20% per month ROI on a $10k account a resonable goal for scalping the fx futures market?

 

the answer is a simple as "yes I'm having that kind of sucess and feel that someone who puts in the time can get here" or "no I've spent x years and cannot get close to that on a good month" all would be helpful where the wisdom responce above is not really very helpful due to the fact that the real world does not care what our calculator predicts and i'm looking for responces for people who are trading what i'm looking at to help tune my goals.

 

 

as always thanks for spending the time to respond

Thanks for your help

[Tams 20]

>in that case,

>2. one micro contract to start.

 

thanks for that answer so 1 emini per $10k account is all that a 4 to 1 margin account will cover

 

no, I did not say mini, I said MICRO.

[Tams 20]

this one is pretty simple, anyone trading future contracts on the fx market will probably know the answer offhand but then you already answered this in that a $10k account can only trade 1 eminni with a 4 to 1 margin. If you really want urls to the posts I can look them up but then again the question is very straight forward and an answer to the basic question of how does margin work for futures contracts.

 

 

I still don't think you know what you are talking about.

without the proper reference, no wonder nobody wants to give you any response.

but then, this is the least of my worries, because you will soon find out how things work,

one way or another.

[Dcash 10]

where and when did this 2 contracts surfaced?

 

that is $2 per contract each way one entry and 1 exit on any position this is not counting any fees associated with adjusting OCO trades for something like trailing stops which i understand are charged for also.

[Tams 20]

I see the wisdom in the phrase but it really does not have anything to do with the question and again if you do not want to answer the question that is fine. but to rephrase the question

 

for someone who has learned to trade moderatly well is a 20% per month ROI on a $10k account a resonable goal for scalping the fx futures market?

 

the answer is a simple as "yes I'm having that kind of sucess and feel that someone who puts in the time can get here" or "no I've spent x years and cannot get close to that on a good month" all would be helpful where the wisdom responce above is not really very helpful due to the fact that the real world does not care what our calculator predicts and i'm looking for responces for people who are trading what i'm looking at to help tune my goals.

 

 

as always thanks for spending the time to respond

Thanks for your help

 

 

this question is way out of the ball park.

 

i tried to tell people trading is not a job... you don't get paid because you have spent 8 hours in front of the screen.

 

and people would say... yea yea yea... you don't have to preach to me, i know, i know... it is not a job, i know....

 

although they say they know...

although they say it is not a job,

but they are approaching trading as if it is a job.

 

your question is a prime example.

you don't don't get a ROI per month.

at least, you don't approach it as if you will get a ROI per month.

you don't even get a ROI per year.

this is trading, not a job.

 

then people will say...

yea yea yea, i know... trading is not a job,

i have to treat it like a business, right?

 

wrong again.

trading is not a business

many people (esp the system vendors) would want you to think so

sure a business plan sounds impressive,

and money management skill is important, right?

but let me tell yo uthe truth...

trading is not a business

 

but worry not,

you will soon find the answer,

the real answer

the answer that would satisfy you,

whether you like it or not.

 

have a good day.

 

;-)>

[Dcash 10]

no, I did not say mini, I said MICRO.

 

new acronem for me so what is a micro? I assumed that you were talking about the the eminnis which are a smaller chunk on the futures market. anyway I will look up Micro to find out thanks.