Change Thyself

[zdo 20]

“Change thyself”

For traders, what is the ‘state of the art’?

[DugDug 10]

1) desire to change yourself

2) plan to change

3) discipline to put into place the actions of the plan

[Soultrader 12]

1. Unlearn what you've learned

2. Becoming aware of your faults

3. Rediscovering yourself

4. Accepting what you thought was impossible

[zdo 20]

Hi all,

fxGirl, from the 'Know thyself' thread re your post: “You said that you insist that traders develop their own systems, but for a different reason. I’d be interested in what that reason is."

I have a co-mingled list of reasons but at the core, I think the following says it far better than I could ever say it (Note: all bracketed content is mine)

 

The Determining Factor

 

[barely or only occasionally consciously] Many people feel trapped by their past. They think they are doomed by events that took place in the earliest stages of their childhood.

 

Some people imagine that the birth experience was so traumatic that it completely determined the course of their life, for them the biggest problem they have is that they were born.

 

Some believe they are victims of their conditioning or how their parents treated them; they see this as the predominant determining factor in the life they now live.

 

There are those who believe they are extension of their genes and that what primarily determines their life experiences is their genetic code.

 

Others assign the determining factor of their lives to their astrological makeup of to their numerology.

 

Still other attribute the determining factor of their lives to their social, ethnic, or racial background.

 

Some say it is their gender that mostly determines their fate.

[from some of the narratives I’ve heard, some seem to have all these reasons at the (serial) ready…]

 

There are many theories, built primarily on the assumptions of the reactive-responsive orientation, that promote the idea that you are for the most part fixed in your life pattern and that you can only make changes – if changes are at all possible – by somehow dealing with the predetermined nature you carry within you.

 

Different theories suggest dealing with the determining factor by understanding it, overpowering it, denying it, manipulating it , experiencing it, accepting it, repressing it, surrendering to it, dialoging with it, appeasing it, or integrating it.

 

Those in the reactive – responsive orientation* find this notion of ‘determining factors” appealing , because it attributes causality to circumstances beyond their direct control [a very easy chute to do this in trading – 'random' trade and then just keep adding some more cars ]

 

When you shift to the orientation of the creative*, you begin to move along the path of mastering causality. You become the predominant causal force in your life, which is a natural and desirable situation

 

This shift is made by evoking senior forces, such as fundamental choice*, primary and secondary choices*, structural tension*, aspiration to your true values, and being true to yourself.

 

These senior forces always take priority over lesser forces, such as willpower*, manipulation, conflict manipulation*, and structural conflict*. [be careful not to assume you understand how he’s using these *’d terms if you haven’t read the book]

 

There is another force inherent in the orientation of the creative that is senior even to mastering causality. This senior force, I call transcendence

 

…

 

Transcendence is more than just the accurate realization that the past is over. It is also a realignment of all dimensions of yourself with the very source of your life.

 

From

The Path of Least Resistance (revised, second edition 1989)

Robert Fritz

 

If you haven’t read this book I highly recommend it. If you have read it, time to ‘dust it off’ in the light of trading development…

[zdo 20]

More ...

 

There is a difference between passively learning reality because life forces you to and actively teaching yourself reality. When you seek to know reality and learn what there is to learn, you can best create wary really matters to you. Like art for art’s sake, this is truth for truth’s sake – the desire to know reality because it is real, and for no other reason.

 

The foundation of reality is the only place you can start the creative process. There are no tricks to this. Learning reality is ability that is important to master and yet human to avoid.

 

There is a conflict of tendencies here. One tendency is to view reality selectively. Our natural aversion to pain and suffering leads us to avoid new experiences of pain and suffering. We develop a strategy of avoiding looking at reality for fear of what we might find. We would rather not receive bad news.

 

A second tendency is the human longing to create. As we move in time and space, we live in a constant state of change, and we have a natural tendency to want to determine what this change will be. Will it be positive or negative? Smooth or abrupt?

 

Furthermore, we have deep aspirations. We are natural builders. We build civilizations. We desire to build our own lives.

 

To fulfill this tendency, we need to know what reality is. Whether we like what we find or not. Whether it makes us feel good or bad. Whether we are frustrated by it or satisfied.

 

These two tendencies lead to different actions. One is to avoid knowing reality, the other is to know reality. The conflict between the two is usually not pronounced, but sometimes it is. When you are creating and also trying to avoid pain, you will come to a crossroads of decision. When push come to shove, what do you do? Do you avoid the potential pain and misrepresent reality, or do you accurately represent reality to enable yourself to create you vision and feel whatever there is to feel?

 

This is a matter of values. That which you hold to be more valuable will guide your actions. If the avoidance of pain is a higher value than the creation of what you want, your actions will be to avoid the parts of reality that seem problematic. If your creation is a higher value, you will pursue an accurate representation of reality and let your emotional chips fall where they may.

 

…

 

Your concept of reality may not be reality

 

…

 

Reality is not a concept

 

…

 

When you begin to observe reality, begin freshly with the notion that you know nothing. Separate the ideas you have from your observations. You might find this hard to do. But if you truly want to know what reality is, your observations must not be burdened by your own biases. It takes practice to put preconceived concepts aside and observe what is truly going on. When you master this practice, you will have a powerful tool you can use to create what matters most to you in life.

…

 

From

The Path of Least Resistance (revised, second edition 1989)

Robert Fritz

[JBWTrader 10]

The last paragraph is actually what it takes to be a very good if not great therapist..

 

One could say here are some similarities to approaching higher levels of trading achievement that can be related to the last paragraph also..

 

very interesting couple of posts Zdo. Thanks

 

Best

John

[zdo 20]

From the “Single Largest Roadblock” thread

I have one challenge only: I can't face losses.

 

Losses are killing me, a losing trade feels to me like a stab with a knife in the heart, while I have no problem losing at conventional games, e.g. chess, a single losing trade is something that puts me down. It's causing me so much pain that it's hard to express. I feel clouds darkening the sky of my mind after a losing trade. Like facing a huge block that you know will be almost impossible to get thru.

 

That thing is having a bazillion effects on me, all of them adverse:

1) my mood goes downhill, affecting my own and others' personal life

2) I have a great urge to find a flaw in the system after a losing trade, and correct it

3) after a streak of losing trades, just 2-3 are enough, or a month of trading where I'm +/- 0 on balance, or slightly below 0, I immediately seek a new system

 

I've been thinking about the remedy - perhaps quality mentorship putting me in the right mindset is what I'm lacking. I'll keep pursuing the topic.

gandalf33,

Have you read Mark Douglas or been to one of his workshops? Solid foundations for the ‘thinking’ aspect of those factors mentioned by MadMktScientist, etc...

http://www.woodiescciclub.com/Lectures/mark-douglas/index.htm

http://www.woodiescciclub.com/Lectures/mark-douglas/august-2005.htm

I still set an appointment to listen to these one morning a year ... whether I need to or not...

 

 

I think it was Larry Williams who suggested going and playing slots for days and days as a way of desensitizing… if I were doing that, I would also try to remind myself just before every pull that “this is a trade”

 

 

Playing poker with stakes I seriously didn’t want to lose helped me a lot at a specific juncture with this issue…

fold….fold… fold….fold… fold… fold…call...fold….fold… fold….fold… fold… fold

… get the picture?

Note poker is a ‘different’ game – but still it’s subject to the basic ‘pain makes you stupid’ and ‘learning how to lose’ rules

 

Ultimately though, I think it is best just intending and practicing to get better and better at taking losses in real trading...becoming aware of the idiosyncracies of your own patterns...ferreting all of them out too ( because there's always more than one)... preparing ahead of time to recover more quickly than ever before...'working through' attachments... yada yada...

Edited May 13, 2010 by zdo

[gandalf33 10]

Thanks zdo for the inspirations of how to overcome this pain that I internally believe, is the source of failure for the majority of traders, whether they admit it or not (as in trading, the tree of consequences of feeling pain from losses is just huge).

 

But not for once have I given up the idea that I can master it. The goal is to become independent from personal feelings when seeing a trade come to an end, whether it ends with a gain or with a loss.

 

At this point in my life I believe this goal is achieved by embracing the naked fact of the slope of the equity curve. Does it go steadily up? Not by far. Does it yield a nice profit every month? Yes, it does. So? I have to accept it - my backtest shows this clearly and dearly - I might get 7, even 10 losers in a row, and most of my trading will be small losses accompanied by small wins with an occasional larger win, which does the profits. If I can't accept this then I'm not fit trading my strategy. I have to fully accept this fact, or not trade.

 

Once again as 'repetition is the mother of knowledge' as they say in my country: I have to know exactly, what I can expect from my pattern setups and trading rules (exit strategies meant primarily here). Knowledge of this is so powerful, it alleviates trading a bit immediately. If I study trade after trade of my historical trades and see with my own eyes again and again that small losses followed by small wins come in great numbers, with some mid-sized and a few larger wins somewhere in between, making a perfect month in terms of profits, then what the hell is my problem seeing small wins and small losses come in days after days in sim/live?

 

The problem is simple - the common knowledge that "to achieve, one has to build by adding more and more to it" (this is contrary to seeing chips fall off the equity curve) and that "if you do something and the result is not good, fix it", are too much ingrained in me. Can I be blamed for it? Abso-freaking-lutely not, as every sane person in the world who first approaches trading, provided he's more than 10 years old, has to have those already ingrained or else there's something wrong with him!

 

The matter in my eyes is simple - in terms of trading, overcoming the feelings resulting from those two ingrained statements, seeing adverse effects of those in real-time and perceiving them good.

 

And how to overcome an ingrained thing? By constant repetition.

 

In other words, the more trading you do, seeing your success, the less impact losses have on you. This immediately means one thing - the beginnings is what matters. You have to force yourself into trades and exit according your rules and not according fears resulting from those ingrained. Sounds familiar with a general advice "follow your plan"? ...

 

Also, how many people from 100 in real life are able to willingly overcome a habit they've been rehearsing since their early childhood, now being second nature to them? Perhaps 5-10%? Does this amount ring any bells?

 

Understanding why one feels what he feels counts for sooo much. That's one of the reasons why I will make it in trading, whatever the odds or obstacles.

 

In other terms, it's exactly what you wrote too zdo - poker = learn to lose, Larry's slot machines = learn to lose, preparing ahead of time, in my perception this equals studying your historical trades one by one for months and months and seeing a lot of losing streaks while being profitable month after month = learn to lose.... so thanks for your post once again. You are right with it, it's just that the aspiring traders have to see the reasons for what and why is happening to them.

[zdo 20]

...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcPD9AmVdl0&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - Howard Lederer: On Poker & Trading the Markets[/ame]

[EminiTradingCoach 10]

As a big fan of watching poker on TV, I appreciate that last power with Howard. One of things you'll often see on ESPN or Fox Sports when they show Poker is the percentages after a flop. When two or more players see the flop, they'll show the percentages underneath player showing their odds of winning the hand.

 

Similarly in trading, you need level the playing and field and know the odds on your trades. This requires time and effort backtesting each strategy. Yet, understanding the odds will help you build the psychological capital to pull the trigger on the trade.

[max8ion 10]

This is really interesting and useful thing to read, thank you again

[TheHardWorkingGuy 10]

Trading Psychology?

Philosophy of loosing?

Mind make ups?

Managing fears and Greed?

 

Well, all those are really good. In my own opinion, the battle is really against the greed of others.

Forex as a market is predominantly ruled and fueled by the greed of those who have the 'thick' financial power and even when you try to stick out of the 'nonsense' because you want to do things rightly, you're still a potential target been monitored from an external source.

 

You wish to maximize your potentials and your personal greed is therefore not what you should watch against. I see what matters most is to stick to a set of proven rules and obey them as that will be your control.

 

If you are to purely remove greed out of forex trading, then volatility will be at least reasonable and the market will be again normal. You can trade with your eyes closed. That will be good but it must start with the 'super big guys'.

 

If I were to add, when did we start seeing three and five digit currency pairs? Where they not at most two and four? The extra digits were created by some people's greed so as to gain upper hand with artbitraging latencies. That's an anomaly not created by simple traders like you and me. I suppose a great greed was involved somewhere.

 

Just do what you know you should do and follow a good system you have been well aquainted to. Take time to master your trades and focus on believing what you do. You will end up at least averaging out and make reasonable returns.

 

 

(Moderator: Sorry, removed promotional URL)

 

To your trading success.

Aden

[zdo 20]

Hi HardWorkingGuy,

 

Maybe clarify how your post is on topic.

Discussing the merits of whether to change thyself or not seems to be another topic. This topic is for those who see a need bound patterns etc. in their own dynamics...

[ahimsa 10]

hi zdo,and everyone

i'm new in this site.reading the thread's were you wrote,i must to tell you thank's for the kind of topic.it's very interested.the debate change yourself is right,personally i prefer correct yourself,for my simple way to see the things.but this is only my thinking .now the question is,the market's are cruel,and i think that is normal the greed in forex,is full of financial power ,and for move the market need's to many many many quantity of money,how is possible remove the greed,if the same greed of money power move the market?thank's

[zdo 20]

It’s hard to improve on the ‘lists’ provided above. Here is a ‘list’ with a couple of possibly pivotal enhancements, plus some comments. hth.

 

1) See what it is - for what it is

2) Know what you want.

3) Raise your internal energy level and then practice the new change.

4) Fail successfully, then start all over again.

 

Some Comments

1) See what it is (whatever it is, at this point what needs change) for what it is – nonjudgementally and as objectively as possible. Someone said that all the ‘ways’ are either oriented to truth, beauty, and goodness. The ‘goodness’ way is currently in ascendancy, with a <10% of the population oriented to ‘beauty’ and only a tiny percentage oriented toward ‘truth’. This first list item is ultimately about making the ‘truth’ way more choicefully available when it’s needed. Paradoxically, it’s not about effortful seeking though – ie “Don’t seek the truth, just drop your opinions” some old zen jerk.

 

2) Know what you want. Identify what you want to change and identify what you want to change it to. Assume the courage to change the major things, like the things you know both your heart and head want, etc. Normal, healthy ways don’t need ‘changed’. Abnormal, blocked, unhealthy, maladaptive ways do need ‘changed’. Start freeing the ‘bound’ parts. Don’t disturb the adaptive parts. Disturb the disturbed parts.

How precise and detailed must this vision be? Actually only as precise as needed for you to recognize it as complete if it were manifested right now. (ie don’t be discouraged by the hi res ‘visualization’ types…)

This ‘knowing what you want’ is more than just a step in the process though. It is a way of being, a change in and of itself. In any performance work; be it relatively more ‘virtual’ (like trading and its gaming derivatives) or relatively more ‘physical’ (like combat and its sport derivatives), it can be quite difficult for most to genuinely and consistently stay focused on ‘what’s working?’ instead of ‘what’s wrong?’ or ‘what’s not working?’ – but that habit is the essence of embodying this step. "Master one thing, master ten thousand things."

 

3) Raise your internal energy level and then practice the new change. Omitting the raising of your energy level part puts insurmountable drag on many a good list and on many otherwise high-quality attempts to ‘change thyself’.

 

4) Fail successfully, then start all over again. Basically this is a ‘change’ that commits to never letting circumstances rule your spirit, a ‘change’ that commits to as many tries as it takes to establish the change. Each successful failure ends with a (not necessarily verbal) declaration like - “Start afresh! Hootless!” – which is basically an acknowledgement, but not focusing on, the virtually inevitable ‘baggage’ of memories and anxieties

 

certenotti, let’s take a quick swing at your post re “how is possible remove the greed,if the same greed of money power move the market?” using this ‘list’…

1) what is… What are your own (the more speechlees the better btw) representations of the whole greed thing? Are any ‘mental time distortions’ in your representations? Right now, what is the best unanswerable question about the whole ‘greed’ issue you can come up with?

Certain critical aspects of any collective situation remain ‘unmentionable’. For me, greed / unbalanced acquisitiveness, is actually fear based. It’s one of those ‘four rooted fears’. I didn’t start out believing that. It took me years to have, then to really ground, that insight; and then make real changed beliefs operational.

For me the whole ‘greed’ issue has been supplanted by my patterns of stubbornness issues – yep more ‘four rooted fear’. I now actually look to be ‘greedier’ than the next guy AND to be as greedy as is balanced, while seeing the influence over my stubbornness (and/or my lack of influence and the damd costly symptoms) for what they are… Develop, and gradually hone, increasingly accurate internal representations of the ebb and flows of collective greed in relation to the ebb and flows of your own ‘greeds’ states and behaviors. This is entering into the fray of the mess of greed instead of building defenses against it…working in the flow of the ‘greed’ is a lot like a flowing tennis shot – swinging as hard as possible but not too hard, with serious effort in some muscle groups but also, the often unacknowledged / neglected, complete surrender of other muscle groups. 2) / “what I want’ - for me, it's flow --- to the point where the multi-level bound fear catch points that make the unconscious impulses to be stubborn / attached / greedy possible at all are truly cleared. For you or someone else, number 2) might be more ‘greed’ specific – like getting to the place (where greed is concerned), you are ‘playing them‘ instead of ‘being played’ by the whole greed mess. 3) is up the intensity and go for the change this trading session and 4) is start at a new / at least slightly modified number 1) again…

Hope this impromptu application of the ‘list’ conveys the ideas and helps.

(Major credit to one of my life coaches, Scott Sonnon, for his help with this 'list')

 

Wishing you and yours all wonderful holidays.

[ahimsa 10]

It’s hard to improve on the ‘lists’ provided above. Here is a ‘list’ with a couple of possibly pivotal enhancements, plus some comments. hth.

 

1) See what it is - for what it is

2) Know what you want.

3) Raise your internal energy level and then practice the new change.

4) Fail successfully, then start all over again.

 

Some Comments

1) See what it is (whatever it is, at this point what needs change) for what it is – nonjudgementally and as objectively as possible. Someone said that all the ‘ways’ are either oriented to truth, beauty, and goodness. The ‘goodness’ way is currently in ascendancy, with a <10% of the population oriented to ‘beauty’ and only a tiny percentage oriented toward ‘truth’. This first list item is ultimately about making the ‘truth’ way more choicefully available when it’s needed. Paradoxically, it’s not about effortful seeking though – ie “Don’t seek the truth, just drop your opinions” some old zen jerk.

 

2) Know what you want. Identify what you want to change and identify what you want to change it to. Assume the courage to change the major things, like the things you know Abnormal, blocked, unhealthy, maladaptive ways do need ‘changed’. Start freeing the ‘bound’ parts. Don’t disturb the adaptive parts. Disturb the disturbed parts.

How precise and detailed must this vision be? Actually only as precise as needed for you to recognize it as complete if it were manifested right now. (ie don’t be discouraged by the hi res ‘visualization’ types…)

This ‘knowing what you want’ is more than just a step in the process though. It is a way of being, a change in and of itself. In any performance work; be it relatively more ‘virtual’ (like trading and its gaming derivatives) or relatively more ‘physical’ (like combat and its sport derivatives), it can be quite difficult for most to genuinely and consistently stay focused on ‘what’s working?’ instead of ‘what’s wrong?’ or ‘what’s not working?’ – but that habit is the essence of embodying this step. "Master one thing, master ten thousand things."

 

3) Raise your internal energy level and then practice the new change. Omitting the raising of your energy level part puts insurmountable drag on many a good list and on many otherwise high-quality attempts to ‘change thyself’.

 

4) Fail successfully, then start all over again. Basically this is a ‘change’ that commits to never letting circumstances rule your spirit, a ‘change’ that commits to as many tries as it takes to establish the change. Each successful failure ends with a (not necessarily verbal) declaration like - “Start afresh! Hootless!” – which is basically an acknowledgement, but not focusing on, the virtually inevitable ‘baggage’ of memories and anxieties

 

certenotti, let’s take a quick swing at your post re “how is possible remove the greed,if the same greed of money power move the market?” using this ‘list’…

1) what is… What are your own (the more speechlees the better btw) representations of the whole greed thing? Are any ‘mental time distortions’ in your representations? Right now, what is the best unanswerable question about the whole ‘greed’ issue you can come up with?

Certain critical aspects of any collective situation remain ‘unmentionable’. For me, greed / unbalanced acquisitiveness, is actually fear based. It’s one of those ‘four rooted fears’. I didn’t start out believing that. It took me years to have, then to really ground, that insight; and then make real changed beliefs operational.

For me the whole ‘greed’ issue has been supplanted by my patterns of stubbornness issues – yep more ‘four rooted fear’. I now actually look to be ‘greedier’ than the next guy AND to be as greedy as is balanced, while seeing the influence over my stubbornness (and/or my lack of influence and the damd costly symptoms) for what they are… Develop, and gradually hone, increasingly accurate internal representations of the ebb and flows of collective greed in relation to the ebb and flows of your own ‘greeds’ states and behaviors. This is entering into the fray of the mess of greed instead of building defenses against it…working in the flow of the ‘greed’ is a lot like a flowing tennis shot – swinging as hard as possible but not too hard, with serious effort in some muscle groups but also, the often unacknowledged / neglected, complete surrender of other muscle groups. 2) / “what I want’ - for me, it's flow --- to the point where the multi-level bound fear catch points that make the unconscious impulses to be stubborn / attached / greedy possible at all are truly cleared. For you or someone else, number 2) might be more ‘greed’ specific – like getting to the place (where greed is concerned), you are ‘playing them‘ instead of ‘being played’ by the whole greed mess. 3) is up the intensity and go for the change this trading session and 4) is start at a new / at least slightly modified number 1) again…

Hope this impromptu application of the ‘list’ conveys the ideas and helps.

(Major credit to one of my life coaches, Scott Sonnon, for his help with this 'list')

 

Wishing you and yours all wonderful holidays.

 

thank's zdo for your answer,your list ,conveys relaxing and good word's that can help the soul,and infused calm that we needed when we make trading.now my first point that i sayed when i arrived here in traders laboratory,was "sorry"anticipately for my eventual mistakes and this is referred not only by the grammar mistakes,but it's possible that i can involuntarely misrepresent the sense of some phrases.You mentioned four points with relative comment's,ok,for you are paragonable at the four step of ladder that we trader must will do?or are only the state were your inconscious impulse to be stubbern etc sail?i don't understand very vell(and take this words,please not like a contraddition,but like a sincerely change of opinion),if you want make a battle or you want make more greed,because for me if everybody want's fight agains't greed out of the financial markets is

a good thing,it's a very difficult work that everyone will make for to be a better people.now i dont' say that if we want make a battle against the tick power,inside the market is wrong but is very difficult,because i can only thinking that is necessary one trillion of dollar for move a value example like euro-usd,upon a time you know better than me the forex wasn't permitted to a retail customer,but only for bank,successively for increment the speculation ,the markets have permitted to all to invest in forex without have need to invest the whole capital.this is a big topic that probably can to flow and to create other topic.step by step sayed the wise's people,(and if you mentioned zen,you are maybe a possible wise).I think that the stubbness your,mine and the other people are the to constate that when we study ad example T.A..and succesively will observe the ebb and flow,the volatility, and up of all the market's inefficiencies,especially when improvvisely break the bull/bearish trap on the level and go were you and all us don't know.and now i can will say surelly,this is a great greed moment.the market done what you don't wait,and i ask in this moment maybe who has the tick financial power,have more or better news,or can being that in this moment arrive an obsolescent news,or only more speculation,many bank make trading only for paying dependent,we are lucky if the financial power let take all us some crumb of cake.Better teachers sayed that the market's wants to be respect.and better teacher's never will say to you sell or buy now,only case if your teacher is one of thick financial power and want your good,because is one of the first value that have him.teachness without being payed and make you join with a good action.mah! I think that is very rare case.Now come back to your list before i lost myself.

1-see what it is for what it is.

very good,is like to say take it easy,if i see a green thing is green if i see the red thing is red.so is elementar maybe can safe maybe can be so destructive,you and i can think's so other people can think in a different and more complicated way.i understand right if i think that for you isn't so easy,? me too.For me many time when i see injustice and abuse of power in every field,the first thing that i think is....the world was born to be beatiful,magnificient,wonderful place for the human being,but this is the initial thinking that everyone inconsciously take it for all the life,from 5 years even when we will die,but...isn't so.:angry

2-know what you want.

I'm conscious,and in the every way inconscious of what i want,but is also really that i meet difficult,reverse position.(this is a really example like the operativity meet the real life,and here is true the motto the bag and the life).

3-Raise your internal energy level and then practice the new change.

In a spirutual and healt benefiance is a very god thing,for the trading session,help me to understand in wich way the (i hope only positive energy)can change the things.

4- Fail successfully,then start all over again.

you have illustrated in a better way,like loss and have the big strong to stand up,and learning from the fail that you can start again,but...i think take what you learned from a loss,can be useful for yor next step or jump,trying to avoid to make the same mistake.nobody like to fail.When someone fail is like to had the sensation that what you have learned is lose in some place and we don't know the way,for find it.

I hope to don't had misrepresent,your point of view,and i hope to bas been clearly with mine.

now let me say,that maybe nobody the claivoyance can say what really happen tomorrow when open ,only one things respect the market the sicurity that when for some time is bull is bull when is bear is bear....but in forex ....isnt' sure not even those.Now i wish all the best thing and a very special christmas with your family and your friends.nice to spoke with you and i hope to was been non-mental time-distorsion.

[zdo 20]

certenotti,

 

re: “i hope to was been non-mental time-distorsion. ” certenotti, I read your post and I got to admit, it ‘was been a mental time distortion’

I’ll just make a few comments that hopefully will clarify and help and we’ll move on.

 

re: 4) and “i think take what you learned from a loss,can be useful for yor next step or jump,trying to avoid to make the same mistake.nobody like to fai”

How can you get to a place mentally where you are experiencing learning not a single thing from a loss?

 

re: 3) and “ In a spirutual and healt benefiance is a very god thing,for the trading session,help me to understand in wich way the (i hope only positive energy)can change the things”

Suggestion: Question ‘only positive’

 

re: 2) and “I'm conscious,and in the every way inconscious of what i want,but is also really that i meet difficult,reverse position” Polarities… see your PM.

 

re: 1) and “but this is the initial thinking that everyone inconsciously take it for all the life,from 5 years even when we will die” etc. Much of this is learning to what to observe to ‘identity our identifications’

 

“you are maybe a possible wise”

 

All the best,

 

zdo

[zdo 20]

One of my waking thoughts this morning was that this list needed a kaizen-ee pass through again for improvements, not really major changes… so here goes…

1) Know what you want

2) See what it is - for what it is

3) Raise your internal energy level and then practice the new change.

4) Fail successfully, then start all over again.

 

Comments:

The order of 1) and 2) was changed placing ‘Know what you want’ first so that ‘See what it is - for what it is’ could be particular to the wanted change at hand, instead of needing to have some universal accurate understanding of everything

… however - wu wei - learning cycles go both directions so actually both orderings are correct…

 

Ditto previous comments… Maybe more coming later on leveraging the ‘tensions’ in 4) Fail successfully, then start all over again. hth

 

All the best,

 

zdo

[gandalf33 10]

A quick comment to the "Know what you want" part.

 

Firstly, I've read on numerous places/media that this should be your first thing regarding trading (e.g. Van Tharp's book, etc). After spending 2 years learning patterns, backtesting and reading about trading, I then realized that this is really the most important thing to do, realizing what you want might save you thousands of dollars and months of time. Then I've thoroughly pondered what I really want in life and it took me 2 whole days to figure it out and some hours occasionally to review that.

 

I'm willing to bet, that 0.1% of people, even reading that knowing what you want (and pondering that to the bottom) is the first thing they should do, will actually do it, and not just do it, give these thoughts the time they need. 0.1% - or less.

 

So much for the first point of the list.

[ahimsa 10]

hello,zdo.i answered at your pm 3 day ago,but now i dont understand what do you mean for kaizen-ee.

[zdo 20]

certenotti,

 

Kaizen is a 'japanese' concept for continual improvement that is mostly applied to production (which trading is not). The '-ee' was just me trashing perfectly good language...

 

Am seeing no Private Messages from you in my inbox...

 

zdo

[zdo 20]

gandalf33, Thanks. Good points. They are getting a little bit away from making specific behavior pattern changes and more to longer timelines - but are part of big picture type of 'knowing what you want'. Long ago in the beginning, I went on multiple grail searches - for which I have zero regrets. Later, I also spent years in the wilderness - more than once – and for those I do have some regrets. It finally sank in to return to and stay true to my original vision of how I wanted to trade and the trader I wanted to be. In my own case that meant returning to giving priority to Market Typing first then to finding condition specific systems, methods, techniques etc. and sticking with the very difficult tasks of developing accurate real time measures of MarketTyping that worked for me. That 'return' cleared up a bunch of background structural conflict and made the day to day work and 'changes' much more straightforward. Many think I'm being unreasonably extreme advising noobies not to train using another's system(s). But, in all but a few cases, I think it stunts both explicit and implicit learning ... and only really nets the developing trader a small portion of an hour in the his or her process of accumulating that old rule of thumb 10000 hours...

[Kiwi 16]

certenotti,

 

Kaizen is a 'japanese' concept for continual improvement that is mostly applied to production (which trading is not). The '-ee' was just me trashing perfectly good language...

 

Am seeing no Private Messages from you in my inbox...

 

zdo

 

 

Interesting posts you have here.

 

I might have agreed with you about production in the past but I don't currently. Trading is almost exactly like the production process that Demming was dealing with in Japan in the 60s and 70s and both continuous improvement and statistical process control are applicable.

 

In trading I produce a series of actions. The ultimate goal of these actions is to produce profit but just as the factory worker must act not to produce profit but to contribute to his part of the manufacturing process in a manner that contributes to improvement and a process that is in statistical control so a trader must focus on process and not results.

 

It goes on, but thats probably enough to get what I mean about trading and production.

 

Its funny that we seek analogies for trading but so far the best two I see are assembly line production (with a string of opportunities coming along the line towards you and all you, the humble worker can do is execute your element of the process as cleanly as possible) and gambling (where you aim to be the professional poker player not the amateur donor player).

Edited January 13, 2011 by Kiwi