Flow Thyself

[zdo 20]

“Flow thyself”

For traders, what is the ‘state of the art’?

[zdo 20]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPACS8ogqus]YouTube - Enroll Yourself in the Genius Factory[/ame]

[zdo 20]

My impressions of that Tube:

Noted a conspicuous absence of content about the importance of intrinsic interest, drive, passion, for an activity… maybe that’s so obvious it doesn’t need mention for most…

 

...And I see what they are getting at with the whole ‘talent is overrated’ theme. On many levels, one could say the talent IS the passion for it instead of the innate capacities to build skills...

But I also think they may be discounting talent ( as defined above - finer innate capacities to build skills) just a little bit too much. For example, in the piece one of the coaches said something to the effect of “let me work with the weakest quarterback…and I’ll show you that talent is overrated”. Don’t they realize that ‘worst guy in camp’ still has more native QB talent than 99% of the humans on the planet?

[DugDug 10]

yep - no matter how hard I try I will never run the 100 in a quick time - genetics has a certain amount of say. Those talent schools do take the best - its a bit like survivor ship bias.

 

However everyone can certainly improve with any sort of muscle/brain training and a good coach - absolutely no doubt.

 

(Zdo - are you going to start a thread called "touch yourself" next - i reckon you will get a lot of takers for that one;))

[zdo 20]

(Zdo - are you going to start a thread called "touch yourself" next - i reckon you will get a lot of takers for that one;))

 

 

LOL you're killing me

Coming to a forum near you

Touch yourself

What is the state of the art for traders?

 

It was mostly to show fxGirl how easy it is to start a thread.

 

Separating them will just result in a different kind of mess than the usual messes we make :helloooo:

 

Actually, while they all go together, there are important distinctions...

[zdo 20]

Flow

One is either in Flow or in bound-flow

While there are gradients to Bound flow

The transition between flow and bound-flow is a discrete quanta…

[minoo 11]

Zdo I very much like the topic of this thread,

Hope the below puts some substance to it

 

A Little Book of Flow

Life 2.0: The little book of Flow - revised

 

This is the best stuff I have ever read on Web

It has help me so much in pre-trading preparation of ThySelf

 

Here is the printer friendly version to download and save

Life 2.0

 

Enjoy Minoo

[FXGirl 10]

Zdo: Thanks for the link to Like 2.0: The little book of Flow. Lots of great ideas in this gem. One of the few places where I would use a slightly different approach is in dealing with thoughts or the intellect. "It's thought that creates the doubts and fears, that blocks our natural ability to learn and accomplish," is what the author says. I'd much rather see the intellect (and the ego, for that matter) as a valued junior partner. Under the guidance of the Self, the power of the intellect is an amazing thing. And after all, both the ego and the intellect have their places in the scheme of things. I'd like to just view their shenanigans with love and affection.

[zdo 20]

:hmmmm:FXGirl,

 

thx. but let's credit Minoo with that link.

 

I sorta get what you're saying about intellect, etc. but most are not going to habitually “view their shenanigans with love and affection”. For most, he nails it with -

“Ironically as soon as a thought enters such as 'wow this is incredible' or 'my God we're doing fantastic' or 'this feels good', the flow disappears. Then unfortunately, the more we try to recapture it the more illusive it becomes.”

and

“'anything we really know, we know not through thought but through direct experience'.”

Basically, via ‘normal’ intellect, mind rarely even attempts to stop supplanting 'Big Mind'…

more and more lately I been mumbling ridiculous things like "the brains are our greatest obstacles to real thought" :hmmmm:

 

To me, he's saying our habitual, enculturated, conditioned, repeating, death and suffering avoiding semantic streams need to go quiet (without 'trying to' ) - as one of the requisites to flow. (..and btw, this ‘mindfulness’ / thought watching he speaks of comes easier to some than others).

 

...

 

re "one of the requisites " It's been coming clear to me that flow is not a 'single variable' deal. Flow requires proper simultaneous involvement on multiple levels…

For example, his paper seems to emphasize the 'surrender' / non doing / stillness aspects. Equally important are the 'tension' / doing / action aspects... and alternating them in sync with the whole... etc etc

[minoo 11]

Topics of thyself made me look into my own trails of this journey so far

It allowed me to reflect back, thanks for thy theme!

 

This Easter I took some time off and jotted some down;

I usually refer to gray-matter better in my native language

I have tried to translate a poem..ish into English below

 

Hope you enjoy it

Minoo

 

 

Know ThySelf

 

Do you recognise thee creature within

How long this being, Bin in ?

Know-not much

Ado about

Though some noticeable knocks, Rocks within

 

In Yatra of bounty, luck rings the Till

Ch-ching, Ch-ching to the Altar of Plenty

Double me Gains, Fortunes I made

With Lady luck, I up the Ante

Banged the bottoms, Knocked the tops,

I bucked the lot and fill me pot

Narrow alleys, Sclaped so many

This Daytrading punter,

Thought, he tamed this Lady

 

Ever so Cocked, Came the fall,

The more I got up, the more I felt Lost

It notted me guts and empty me pot

Left me to wonder with last penny of lot

Adicted I find, no wine, no dime

No dice to roll, back on dole

 

Rested and Resurrected

New System I Christened, Trendy of mine

Ego restored, I gunned for plenty

The Big Boys in Pits, Poked me to bits

They slaughtered the Pig, on the floor

 

No Jolly for Johnny, Life aint no Dolly

Relegation of mine, sordid my Day Dreams

Thought bargained not, but inherited thy mind,

Wired so wrongly, lamented subconcious of mine

Have heard my story and repeated it all

How many times, Cries myself of all

 

My minds a Dice, Follows my Vice

Few times right & Acts even Wise,

Drowning me mind in Egoistic helpings

In feeling of Doom or Aura of Gloom

Trading Mantras, & Chants of Changes

I Dam this action, in air of Reflection

Guess all are: Self Inflicted Actions

 

Dont ask how, Does living a low life

Shaped by, Absence of reactions

Desire of freedom, jotted a new Dossier

Aware of his Karma, call-out to Brahma

This Punter Percieves & Ploughs within

 

I Question, I Quest,.... I dip in ..... ... ... .. .

Knock knock ........ ..... .... . ; Who Thou in

Flow of Tears, Drowns the Ego

Echo & Silence, Swallows last Sorrows

Mind Humms; Finds a Stop

Halo of it; Plants Thy Pod

No plan of Nature, Not BIAS nor Nurtured

Sense free of Ones, own good nature,

It only Flows, Thy Creature with no Feature,

Thou Simply prevails, in Effortless Gear

Shys away, if one wonders or fear

Open Mind knows, meaning of true nature

 

Ah .. Blip ...

........... . .. ..it all; Just .... . -Begins

Edited April 8, 2010 by minoo

[minoo 11]

Todays Motivator (good one)

js redirect

 

Be the real you

+++++++++++

 

Let life know who you are. If you have to hide yourself to

get what you want, do you really even want it?

 

And while you're at it, make sure you let yourself know who

you are. Be absolutely honest and authentic, especially with

yourself.

 

It's easy to get what you want from life. The real difficult

and essential work is figuring out what that is.

 

If you think it might be nice, that's not enough. If it

looks good on somebody else, that's not enough.

 

What you truly want is what you dearly love. It is something

that uniquely and elegantly expresses the real, live,

passionate person you are.

 

You cannot find that or follow it by pretending to be who

you're not. Be the real you, all the time, and joyfully feel

the Flow of your own great abundance.

 

From Ralph Marston

[minoo 11]

I am not sure if anyone has recommended this book already at Traderslaboratory & if so I whole heartedly second it. I came accross this book while trading at the prop shop in london last year. It has help me and my trader friends in many challenging issues of our trading lives. Trading OPM is challenging you need to be much rooted by yourself in your own trading. We liked it so much that we formed a study group to help each other out. Just remember one thing though we all learn things differently; And issues of self requires personal approach, I have prefer not to answer such individual question, niether I qualify to do so. If you give some thought towards your cognitive approach, process or method you may become a better learner and earner. Hope you all put it to good use.

 

Book Title: Trade With Passion and Purpose

Author: Mark Whistler

 

 

Contents

 

 

Part I All of the Answers are already Within

 

Chp 1 Finding Your Purpose Centre

 

Read the above two in the First Excerpt from the book

http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/86/04700390/0470039086.pdf

 

or Preview it in Google Books

 

 

Enjoy Minoo

Edited April 15, 2010 by minoo

[zdo 20]

I have one challenge only: I can't face losses.

 

Losses are killing me, a losing trade feels to me like a stab with a knife in the heart, while I have no problem losing at conventional games, e.g. chess, a single losing trade is something that puts me down. It's causing me so much pain that it's hard to express. I feel clouds darkening the sky of my mind after a losing trade. Like facing a huge block that you know will be almost impossible to get thru.

 

That thing is having a bazillion effects on me, all of them adverse:

1) my mood goes downhill, affecting my own and others' personal life

2) I have a great urge to find a flaw in the system after a losing trade, and correct it

3) after a streak of losing trades, just 2-3 are enough, or a month of trading where I'm +/- 0 on balance, or slightly below 0, I immediately seek a new system

 

…

 

'All negative emotion is expressed as flexion” Moshe Feldenkrais,

Anatomy trains: myofascial meridians ... - Google Books

 

“All…” is not entirely accurate – but it’s still close enough to be a general rule.

 

The point is - (even subtle) habitual flexion binds flow… and without flow one cannot consistently stay near the top of the ‘pareto’ of traders…

[minoo 11]

Zdo you may like this article check it out

 

Draft by Brett Steenbarger

The Mental Game of Trading

 

Enjoy Minoo

Finding the Zone.pdf

[minoo 11]

The most important part in my system is Thyself, but it could be the least efficient one too. I always trade the best when I meticulously do my per-opening preparation of myself and my defined system both. And make myself an efficient component of my defined system. Going through the snippets of Wisdom in the below website made me more rooted in my system and self.

 

Enjoy Minoo

 

Know Thyself | Man's Ancient Quest for Self Knowledge

 

+------------Extracts from site-------------------------------+

 

Self-knowledge is all-encompassing. What is learned on one scale of experience can be applied to all scales. It is the highest form of knowledge, surpassing all other knowledge. Self-knowledge is also timeless, which means that what is gained in one era, benefits all subsequent generations

 

Wherever and whenever the adage originated, Know Thyself was universally adopted and placed at the foundation of knowledge, the corner stone on which, the temples of philosophy should be erected. “The essence of knowledge is self-knowledge,” claimed the Greek philosopher Plato. Centuries before him, the Hindu Upanishads confirmed, “Enquiry into the truth of the Self is knowledge.” Leagues away and centuries later, the Persian poet Rumi wondered, “Who am I in the midst of all this thought traffic?” and the American poet Walt Whitman celebrated his Self, “a simple, separate person.”

[zdo 20]

The most important part in my system is Thyself ...

 

Know Thyself | Man's Ancient Quest for Self Knowledge

 

+------------Extracts from site-------------------------------+

 

Self-knowledge is all-encompassing. What is learned on one scale of experience can be applied to all scales. It is the highest form of knowledge, surpassing all other knowledge. Self-knowledge is also timeless, which means that what is gained in one era, benefits all subsequent generations

 

 

minoo, I really appreciate your intention ( which is obviously not coming from the soul-sucking vortex of the internet where ‘know-it-alls’ and contrarians find their miserable home )

but - ‘know thyself’ and ‘flow thyself’ really are distinctively different topics...

 

...unfortunately, to ‘know thyself’ provides no assurance of ‘flow thyself’... etc.

 

For the few - I long ago pretty much abandoned this thread because the ‘flow thyself’ discussion was being taken in the direction of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi flow, to whom flow is almost strictly a psychological phenomenon attained via seligman type, etc. psychological ‘activities’.

Such stuff may be an ok way to study and explore and describe facets of ‘flow’ - but without the prerequisite body work to clear bound flow, any application of Mihaly stuff will fail.

Ie From the currently dominant paradigms best epitomized by Mihaly - flow may episodically sprout, but it will not take root.

 

In case you’re not aware, there is a companion Know Thyself thread where that post and any others like it you find would help others be " more rooted in [their] system and self."

 

All the best,

 

zdo