Trading Offshore for Tax Purposes?

[randy1953 10]

Well here's another story. The US does not care about single individuals living abroad for taxes or whatever if the sum is under $50,000. Your example sounds believable simply because one your talking about a whole lot of money entering the US from abroad. Now of course homeland will take it. Remember some of your rights were taken away because of 9-11.

But this is done on terrorist watch it is not germane at all fo what I was speaking about.

 

The US only cares about the big fish down here it just costs too much money to go after little guys. That's a fact not a story.

 

Actually I live in a remote mountain town beautiful weather I say remote as compared to the US but we have everything here internet Sat TV etc. Well a few years ago the FBI came into this small town and arrested one of the founding members of a group called Global prosperity this was a outfit them would do seminars offshore showing you how not to pay taxes but the higher up you went they got into showing you how to launder money etc. Now this guy was a very big fish.However it was not because of the intelligence of the FBI he got caught. He had a Venezuelan passport and of course a different name. He also paid off immigration in Panama so he was always given passage. So there were people that knew about him here and liked his money. Well Panama is different than the US they like money but it's nowhere as important as we Americans make it to be.

 

So one day this guy got drunk and took his pistol out and started shooting up his backyard well Panama had enough of his crap and turned him in. If he had never done that he would be here today.

 

Cheers

Randy

[SunTrader 10]

I think the NY Federal Reserve processes (ACH/Swift/CBR/CCD etc) something like 90% of the world's banking system transactions so big brother is always watching.

[randy1953 10]

Well I am sure large transaction are monitored more closely .But then again are the bank wires going from or to a natural person or from a foundation trust to another trust which by the way makes the funds nontaxable by the IRS code. It is possible to protect yourself and you assets if done properly.

Randy

[JBWTrader 10]

Randy I am glad you went to Volcan and not Boquete. Too many gated communities in Boquete for my liking...

 

Best

 

John

[randy1953 10]

Hola Amigo!

 

Do you live here now? Actually I like Boquete more not because of a few gated communities but because of the cluster of Americans there. In Volcan you tend to live more of a hermit lifestyle which for some I 'm sure works out well

Randy

 

 

 

Randy I am glad you went to Volcan and not Boquete. Too many gated communities in Boquete for my liking...

 

Best

 

John

[JBWTrader 10]

Hola Randy

 

I was based in Panama for 3 years but travelled to both places on a regular basis...yes you are right Boquete has more Americans there and I can understand that is you are craving like company...

 

I liked the amount of Rain in Volcan...amazing... as is Cerro Punta

 

Take care

John

[randy1953 10]

Yes going up through Bamboo to Cero Punta is like a magical kingdom.

However it's always wet up there that's why anything will grow as it's the breadbasket for Panama produce as you know.

take care

Randy

 

 

Hola Randy

 

I was based in Panama for 3 years but travelled to both places on a regular basis...yes you are right Boquete has more Americans there and I can understand that is you are craving like company...

 

I liked the amount of Rain in Volcan...amazing... as is Cerro Punta

 

Take care

John

[Ranger 10]

Tax avoidance is good;

 

Tax evasion is unlawful.

 

The IRS does have field offices in known tax havens .... for sure! With a large US debt, you can imagine the US is tightening up on it's tax laws ...

[randy1953 10]

Not really overseas they could careless as long as you file your absolutely fine in Panama.

The IRS does have a field office in Panama city employs 1 IRS agent and he's probably out drinking and pick up young latinos chic than doing any actual work he he.

 

The only reason why they have a field office is try to fake a real pressence here in Panama.

They have absolutely no authority here, all they can do is refer someone to their main office and go from there. It's really just to show thier face they are here. We Americans that have lived here for sometime think it's a joke.

Randy

 

 

 

 

Tax avoidance is good;

 

Tax evasion is unlawful.

 

The IRS does have field offices in known tax havens .... for sure! With a large US debt, you can imagine the US is tightening up on it's tax laws ...

[karim0028 10]

Randy/Other Panama folks,

 

How do you like life in panama? How did you come about your decision to move from the US to Panama?

 

I hear great things about it, but have never been there and kind of wondering what drives folks to move there... What are the good, bad and the ugly about Panama...

[randy1953 10]

There are many answers to that question. The ease of becoming a permanent resident with all the benefits of a retired person and you need not be retired but just show a ongoing income of $1000 per month.

 

The way the people are here has a lot to do with it. In the US we lost real contact with our neighbors like 50 years ago. In the 50's in the US it was a different world and people were a heck of a lot nicer, much less stress,economy much better. Back then if you just worked at a service station pumping gas you could afford yo buy a home .

Well Panama is just like the 50's were for us except we have all the modern conveniences as he US has.

 

The veggies and produce tastes a world apart from the Us. The beauty of living in the mountains where the climate is eternal spring like it never gets hot or cold.

 

The only big negative I have for this country is it rains and rains a lot. If you do not like lots of rain you would never like Panama. It will rain steady every day from March to December however never in the morning which are always nice and sunny but around 2 pm you better be inside because when it rains here it's like a Monsoon rain which is a very hard rain.

 

Lastly you simply live a much more stress free life here and medical care is great where they really take care of you and is common practice for your doctor to give you his cell phone number.

 

Also Americans have been here for over 100 years so they are accustom to us and really enjoy our company

Hope that helps..

Randy

[bootstrap 47]

This is my first post in a long time, and all I have to say about the IRS is to take a line from one of my favorite movies:

 

"In the matrix there are rules. Some can be bent and some can be broken."

 

The secret is to know which is which and have a good lawyer.

 

i am not afaid of an audit, but I would hate to lose.

[nikke 10]

I am a lawyer. I got into trading because a large area of my practice was setting up asset protection plans for traders from the Merc and CBOT.. Some of them taught me how to trade and now that's what I do and only do offshore work for a few on the side. Mainly old clients and their friends.

 

Rule 1 A U.S. citizen must pay tax on income earned anywhere in the world. Trade station will supply the IRS at the end of the year with your trading information.

 

Rule 1a. You are not required to pay more than your fair share. You are allowed to take any steps you deem necessary as long as they are with in the law to minimize your taxes.

 

Ex US companies keep earnings earned outside the US in countries with no corporate taxes. They only pay tax if they return the earnings to the US. This is legal.

 

Rule 2 Tax court does not work like regular court. You are guilty until you prove you are innocent. This means the IRS seizes first then it is up to you to prove they were wrong to do so.

 

Rule 3 earnings through a US domiciled entity are deemed earned in the US. EX earn through trade station and get taxed by the US. It does not matter where you actually live.

 

Use non US broker for trading. For example Saxo bank has good operations. I prefer Hong Kong brokers myself.

 

Rule 4 For asset protection you must be set up and operating before something happens that makes you want the protection. For example to protect from a lawsuit your assets must have changed title before you received notice of a possible suit. To avoid government seizures the same. Once the IRS or Dept. of Labor knock on your door it is to late to legally transfer assets. The courts will hold you in contempt if they find out about it. Same for lawsuits. You will be held in contempt if you transfer after the cause of action arose.

 

This means that while the government cannot get your money they can hold you until you bring your money back to the US so they can grab it.

 

Rule 5 transfers can be on paper . Physical transfer out of US is not needed. Once title is transferred to a non US entity, a corp for example, the corp can move assets at anytime. ( To do this and avoid contempt you must use an attorney that really knows this stuff. It is highly specialized and most lawyers even at the biggest firms have no clue how to do this.

 

Rule 5a You will be deposed. You do not want to lie. You must be set up in such a way that allows you to tell the truth.

 

Rule 6 A Plan without the use of a trust some where in the mix can lead to problems.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Sounds like sound advice.

But please dont mention "learned to trade" and a bucketshop like Saxobank in the same post. Makes the rest of the post smell snake.

[randy1953 10]

Thank you for this I agree with most of it. However you sound a bit like big brother when your talking about MT4 which is also a trading platform and the most popular one today would actually giver the IRS your trading information from a overseas broker. This is simply incorrect the broker has no obligation to give such info or ant info to the IRS. I believe your also incorrect by saying Tradestation because in effect your saying a platform for trading actually has a brain and can be asked to do this. It's just a vehicle for trading purposes?

 

I do agree with you that you need a trust

I do agree that this has to be set up prior to any trouble in the UA

Lastly rule number 5 is simply illegal. The reason why lawyers do not know this part is if they get caught doing a transfer as such they will go to jail.

 

You cannot transfer assets once the IRS has you. This is why it's so important not to have anything registered in your own name. The trust should not have you name on it. The bank account you use should not have your name on it. You should have 2 separate trusts with the money going into the first trust and then transferring into the second trust. I do not have the time here but it's in the tax code if set up properly money that has been through 2 trusts when it comes out is NOT taxable.

 

Happy trading

Randy