Range Bar Errors in OEC?

[Trendup_ 10]

Is there a way to build your own range bars as an indicator in OEC?

(I have not investigated its programing capabilities yet)

The important thing is consistency - if OEC change their calculation of range bars, they should give it another name, and let users determine which they want to use.....there is nothing worse than not being able to trust a system from upgrade to upgrade.

 

Hi DugDug’

The Last info I had from OEC is: the format used in the demos accounts will be released in the live environment in the near future.

Nobody cares if you spent months working on strategies using that timeframe, they just release a new one, from nowhere totally different, something you didn’t ask .

 

It is a disaster for the purist range bar trader, please look at post #19.

 

I tried a ‘1pips range bar’ the platform simply froze up. I’m surprised that so little traders are worried about the problem, I thought the range bar chart was popular. If you are concern about the situation please contact OEC as they are going to implement the new format which looks awful so far.

I sent my disagreement in replacing the current version, but I’m open to improvement or addition to a new timeframe.

[thalestrader 14]

...As was stated previously, OEC has taken the stance of NOT filling bad ticks on range bars. Which means....

 

You have a 10 range chart on the CL.

Your high is 80.10.

So would assume your low is 80.00.

And when price is moving from point A to point B, it will be.

HOWEVER, when price is at 80.01 and the NEXT print is 79.99 there is an 'issue'. OEC has chosen to not give you a fake print that never happened (80.00 in this example).

This is why you will see range bars that are not always equal in size on OEC.

 

And to be honest, I can't fault them in this after researching this more. Do you want them to give you fake prints? I can just imagine what the forums would say when it would be found out that OEC is backfilling w/ non-existent prints on range bars for the sake of making the range bars even...

 

So the range bars are set this way in OEC and if that is unacceptable, you have alternatives out there. You just have to decide do you want true prints only or fake, back filling prints as well.

 

Brownie,

 

With all due respect, a range chart depicts range, not ticks. If there was no print, i.e. a gap between traded prices, then that needs to be recorded in the range chart as it is nonetheless within the range of traded price. Otherwise, the chart is now a bastardized tick chart, and not a range chart.

 

This is not an issue of "bad" or "Fake" ticks. Those are misnomers. OEC apparently just does not understand the nature and function of range charts. They can make up whatever excuse they like, but in this case, OEC is wrong, and their customers who are not satisfied with OEC's "range/tick" charts are voicing legitimate concerns. Sure, there are alternatives. But why, in this case, do you not join with those voicing legitimate concerns to help move OEC in the right direction. I am not sure why, in this case, you are opting for a "my(OEC) way or the highway" approach to OEC's range charts. In the past you have always encourage OEC customers to let their views be heard so as to encourage OEC to improve. Why is this case different? Especially when OEC is so clearly wrong in its interpretation of what constitutes a simple concept like "range"?

 

Best Wishes,

 

 

Thales

[brownsfan019 17]

Thales - it's b/c I understand how they are building them. You say they are wrong and I say that is your opinion of the situation. I do not agree that they are wrong.

 

I will make sure OEC sees this thread and maybe we can get better clarification.

[daedalus 10]

I don't frankly care how they do their ticks/ranges... all i'm asking for is for them to choose one and stick to it so I don't have my charts changing every other week.

 

As far as demo not resembling production? No offense but thats bullshit. Whats the point of showing me a functionality that i'm not going to get in production? I can't think of a single other provider that has a different functioning product from demo vs. live.

[brownsfan019 17]

I will try to get this answered from OEC and report back. I don't know if I will get a reply over the weekend, so it may be early next week before I hear back.

 

If OEC is going to change range charts to a momentum based range chart and only offer that, then we can voice our concerns at that time. I asked in my email to see exactly what the plan is and I hope they offer both options if it is in fact changing. This was news to me, so I just have to wait to see what they say. Offering a standard range chart and momentum range chart would make the most sense to me.

[daedalus 10]

Thanks for continuing to look into all of our OEC questions BF! Much appreciated!!!

[thalestrader 14]

... You say they are wrong and I say that is your opinion of the situation. I do not agree that they are wrong....

 

It is either a range bar or it is not a range bar. They are a matter of definition, not opinion.

 

2+2 = 4, no matter what OEC wishes to have their customers believe. A circle is a line on which all points are equidistant from a center point. OEC could say that a circle is a four sided figure where each side is joined at a 90 degree angle to the adjacent line, but they would not in fact be describing a circle.

 

A stop order is a stop order. It cannot mean one thing at Interactive Brokers and another thing at OEC. Same goes for range bars. I understand how they are building them as well. They are building them wrong. And I am baffled that you persist in this defense of OEC on this one particular issue. I can pull up a 10 range CL chart on CQG, e-Signal, Ninjatrader, or Sierra Chart, and each is identical - each understands a range bar to be a range bar as the folks posting ot this thread. Only OEC argues that a range bar is matter of subjective opinion. It is not.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[Trendup_ 10]

Wow! I’ve managed to open a ‘1pips range bar’ on the demo account, just to demonstrate how the new range bar can replicate bars of a same range price, interesting if you need to know the accumulative volume of that range indeed!!

By selecting bigger range the duplication of same bars is reduced but still occurring at a damaging rate, from a day trader view point I think the new range bar is useless and could generate losses due to unwanted clone bars and fragmentation of volume and momentum indicators.

Guess what? My demo renewal is due next week………..

Thanks to all in this thread, have a good weekend.

 

[MBAGearhead 10]

As was stated previously, OEC has taken the stance of NOT filling bad ticks on range bars. Which means....

You have a 10 range chart on the CL.

Your high is 80.10.

So would assume your low is 80.00.

And when price is moving from point A to point B, it will be.

HOWEVER, when price is at 80.01 and the NEXT print is 79.99 there is an 'issue'. OEC has chosen to not give you a fake print that never happened (80.00 in this example).

This is why you will see range bars that are not always equal in size on OEC.

 

Brownsfan, I just wanted to correct you to help you understand better. In an example I had with Chris at OEC a month ago, I sent him the attached. Only 11% of the incorrectly printed bars in the example were for the reason you state. The rest were the case, to use your example, high 80.10, price trades to 80.01 and the bar ENDS (at 9 ticks length) and the next bar begins with the next print of 80.00.

 

It's perfectly acceptable for a range bar to print short for the reason you state. But that is not what is causing the vast majority of OEC range bars to not go the full range. There is no logic to what their program is doing - it almost seems random.

 

The example attached is live data (not sim) from an OEC 5pip GCL chart.

RangeMBA.xls

[macdfx 10]

Perhaps a separate discussion on what constitutes range bars vs. momentum bars ought to take place.

 

If you are paying for the OEC demo, and they don't deliver a proper charting platform, then you probably ought to consider using a platform that gets it right instead.

 

Like Sierra Charts. No fake-ass bars in both of their iterations of range bars. Just as it should be.

[brownsfan019 17]

I have noted everyone's comments/concerns, which have been forwarded to OEC. I think we know what the issues here so until I hear back from them directly, there's not much more I can say on the matter.

 

As soon as I hear back, you guys will hear as well. Regardless of the response, keep in mind I am just a go between. I've worked with OEC for quite awhile now and I do my best to help everyone - customers and OEC.

[trader273 10]

Perhaps a separate discussion on what constitutes range bars vs. momentum bars ought to take place.

 

If you are paying for the OEC demo, and they don't deliver a proper charting platform, then you probably ought to consider using a platform that gets it right instead.

 

Like Sierra Charts. No fake-ass bars in both of their iterations of range bars. Just as it should be.

 

I agree. There seems to be about 3 different "problems" being discussed in this thread.

 

1. Range Bars that don't have the "correct" range as set by the user because of a gap
   
2. Range Bars that don't have the "correct" range as set by user without a gap
   
3. Range Bars that print while still inside the set range
   

 

I can see merits in 1 and 2, that should be able to be set by the user. 3 is just wrong as range bars, might be some other type of bar, but not a range bar

[macdfx 10]

I agree. There seems to be about 3 different "problems" being discussed in this thread.

 

1. Range Bars that don't have the "correct" range as set by the user because of a gap
   
2. Range Bars that don't have the "correct" range as set by user without a gap
   
3. Range Bars that print while still inside the set range
   

 

I can see merits in 1 and 2, that should be able to be set by the user. 3 is just wrong as range bars, might be some other type of bar, but not a range bar

 

3. This is actually a valid range bar setup, and is referred to as "Range Bar Type 2" in Sierra Charts, for example.

 

The set range is met, but subsequent prints whether inside or outside the (now old) range will start a new bar.

 

In contrast, standard range bars in SC would have to exceed the set range after it is met to start printing a new bar.

[trader273 10]

3. This is actually a valid range bar setup, and is referred to as "Range Bar Type 2" in Sierra Charts, for example.

 

The set range is met, but subsequent prints whether inside or outside the (now old) range will start a new bar.

 

In contrast, standard range bars in SC would have to exceed the set range after it is met to start printing a new bar.

 

Perfect. it should be an option. I hope that's what OEC does.

[brownsfan019 17]

Here's what I was told at this point from OEC --

 

• OEC will continue to have range charts as we know them.
  
• Note - they will better mimic what others in the industry provide.
  
• They will ALSO be providing 'momentum' bars, which we've seen examples of here.
  

That is what I was told today. Testing is being done currently.

 

Now, once the revised range bars are implemented into OEC, we can see if that also fixes other issues.

[Trendup_ 10]

The demo account is still displaying a defective version of what should be a ‘constant range bar’. What a shame!

See the destructive replicative bars of same price range; see the fragmentation of the volume and oscillator.

It shouldn’t take days to reverse to the previous version; at least we could resume using it.

 

[macdfx 10]

It's not a defective version, Trendup. Just not the standard type of Range Bar is all.

 

I was able to get the exactly same type of range bars in Sierra Charts by using their "Range Bar Type 2", which was previously defined above.

Edited April 14, 2010 by macdfx
pic added

[brownsfan019 17]

trend - All I can relay at this point is to be patient. Yes, OEC is working on a few things and that can be tested in demo. If I recall, they do their testing in demo before moving to production, which makes sense for those trading real money. I know you will complain that demo should be perfect and act like the live, but it's not. I believe OEC puts tests through on simulation to see how it acts and then moves to production. You may just be seeing the result of this.

 

For those trading real money, it's good to know that tests are done outside of production. For those trading simulation, it's probably frustrating at times to be caught in the testing phases at times.

 

Is it perfect? Nope. Will they make everyone happy here? Nope. Is it free (or basically)? Yep. Are you getting massive amounts of data on a very nice platform for free (or next to it)? Yep.

 

So knowing all that, you have a choice. You can go buy MultiCharts for $1500 and then call up DTN and pay $50 to startup then $177/mo for emini's and nymex data fees. This option provides you with a platform that will not undergo these upgrade hiccups you are seeing with OEC. Or you can get OEC for free or $20/mo and have these occasional upgrade issues.

[Trendup_ 10]

Thanks BF for your intervention, very appreciated.

 

I’m not going to answer your post #43 as to biased and patronising.

 

Being in contact with OEC myself, I have the same info, so let see if and when they are going to repair their blunder.

[Trendup_ 10]

It's not a defective version, Trendup. Just not the standard type of Range Bar is all.

 

Thanks for the info, I’m sure everyone would like to have more tools added to their toolbox, but not as a replacement. I don’t know who ask for it, don’t know if it is of value, OEC was willing to implement it arbitrarily as a replacement, without warning on the paid demo account, and the plan was to implement it as a replacement on the live account in a near future.

They could have tested it on the demo 3.5, and consulted their clients before changing.

I’m sure there are different versions, but traders reporting their concerns in this thread want a conventional format as discussed many times.

[macdfx 10]

Thanks for the info, I’m sure everyone would like to have more tools added to their toolbox, but not as a replacement. I don’t know who ask for it, don’t know if it is of value, OEC was willing to implement it arbitrarily as a replacement, without warning on the paid demo account, and the plan was to implement it as a replacement on the live account in a near future.

They could have tested it on the demo 3.5, and consulted their clients before changing.

I’m sure there are different versions, but traders reporting their concerns in this thread want a conventional format as discussed many times.

 

A bone of contention here with OEC.

 

If you are paying real money to use a DEMO account, it ought to be accurate in most respects. Including data and charting. Otherwise, what's the point of charging for it, except to conform to exchange rules regarding data feeds.

 

(FWIW, OEC even charges their own customers for DEMOs as well, only waiving the fee if you're not a piker or complain enough, apparently).

 

Have you consider other charting services that you can use your existing data source with instead?

[brownsfan019 17]

A bone of contention here with OEC.

 

If you are paying real money to use a DEMO account, it ought to be accurate in most respects. Including data and charting. Otherwise, what's the point of charging for it, except to conform to exchange rules regarding data feeds.

 

(FWIW, OEC even charges their own customers for DEMOs as well, only waiving the fee if you're not a piker or complain enough, apparently).

 

Have you consider other charting services that you can use your existing data source with instead?

 

And it is accurate most of the time.

 

As I said, the demo from OEC if you are paying is $20/mo. This includes data. Data is not free. As I linked above, see what DTN charges just for data. No charts included in that price.

 

There are plenty of other options as well. If the OEC demo does not meet your needs, you do have options. No one is tied down to OEC.

[Trendup_ 10]

It's not a defective version, Trendup. Just not the standard type of Range Bar is all.

 

There is a difference between SC and OEC in the clone bars construction, I don’t know if it is of great importance though. I’m interested in the conventional range bar which is pure price action, so by definition I don’t want multiple bars of the same range as I consider them as noise in timeframe and indicators of all sorts including moving averages and volume.

 

[macdfx 10]

There is a difference between SC and OEC in the clone bars construction, I don’t know if it is of great importance though. I’m interested in the conventional range bar which is pure price action, so by definition I don’t want multiple bars of the same range as I consider them as noise in timeframe and indicators of all sorts including moving averages and volume.

 

 

Probably not of great importance for you, although one wonders why you continue to pay to use OEC if it doesn't fully meet your needs.

[Trendup_ 10]

Probably not of great importance for you, although one wonders why you continue to pay to use OEC if it doesn't fully meet your needs.

 

I won’t t use the demo until the right version of range bar is reinstated, that's for sure. Otherwise I have good relation with OEC and I’m satisfied by their service , it is just this time I can’t understand what is all about, may be a new guru is going to propose the Holy Grail in a private chat room or blog using this new so called momentum range. The fact is I can find on the web a momentum range bar with the conventional definition, so the name is factious, as well as the method used to impose the new version. Hopefully all is going to get back the way it was, which is not fixing the problem reported in the first place, so back to square one.:crap: