Range Bar Errors in OEC?

[daedalus 10]

I'm new to range bars and to be honest i've never used them on another platform so I don't know if this is normal and how they work or if there is some kind of algo problem in OEC trader.

 

My question is this: Is it normal for say a 5 pip range bar chart (4 tick bars, the 5th tick in a given direction should start the new bar right?) to have some bars that are 4 ticks in legnth and others that are 5? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose?

 

I've attached a picture of what I mean. Is this just typical range chart behavior or is it an OEC bug?

 

Thanks for the help gents!

[statsign 10]

If a bar is forming and has range of 4 pips and a trade suddenly happens outside the 5 range then it isn't possible to have a 6 or 7 pip bar because the cutoff is 5 and so it has to be a new bar.

[MBAGearhead 10]

Daedalus you are correct. I've been after OEC for months to fix this. Last I heard from Chris at OEC was, "I am still working with our development team and project manager to see if we can implement the same functionality as eSignal and Sierra Chart. I do not see this being implemented in the immediate future as this project needs approval first."

 

If more people make OEC aware of this, maybe it will get fixed sooner. The beauty of range bars is you know exactly where the opening tick of the next bar will be once current bar has traded it's full range (next tick above current bar high or next tick below current bar low will start the next bar). But with this bug, you have no idea if current bar will end a tick short or go the specified range. :crap:

 

A couple months ago in early communications, OEC said that according to the development team, this is not a bug. The range bars in the OEC platform can have varying lengths. I then asked if the developers could explain the logic to me how bars are currently created but I've not heard back on this.

 

Attached are a couple examples of OEC vs. eSignal charts I have sent them. The best one has 4 charts in 1 picture showing a 1-min and 4-tick range chart side by side with eSignal data.

[Guest Tresor]

If more people make OEC aware of this, maybe it will get fixed sooner.

 

If OEC's improper charting is given priority over other issues reported to them earlier, then they will never fix their data feed.

 

I hope OEC give priority to fixing their data feed first so that traders who use professional third party charting software could trade via them.

 

If the data is fixed they might focus on fixing their charting, which sucks indeed not only when it comes to range or tick bars.

 

Regards

[daedalus 10]

I'll send OEC a nice email requesting this be addressed. I thought I might have been understanding the logic wrong but if its a platform issue that's unacceptable. I mean, this isn't a beta release of some functionality or something, its their full release and their charts don't even function as they should.

[brownsfan019 17]

As with many things in data reporting, there isn't always a standard is looks like.

 

Here's what I was able to get regarding this issue:

 

Bottom line: It is not a bug. There are several implementations of range bars. It seems OEC is using one that differs from eSignal and Sierra.

 

Is OEC's implementation correct? That is open for discussion as pointed out here.

 

Could OEC conform to how eSignal and Sierra reports? Yes, if approved.

 

One other thing to note is OEC doesn’t fill gaps with fake ticks.

I would suggest that if you would like the data represented according to how eSignal and Sierra presents the data, send a support ticket expressing your desire.

[Dinerotrader 10]

If OEC's improper charting is given priority over other issues reported to them earlier, then they will never fix their data feed.

 

I hope OEC give priority to fixing their data feed first so that traders who use professional third party charting software could trade via them.

 

If the data is fixed they might focus on fixing their charting, which sucks indeed not only when it comes to range or tick bars.

 

Regards

 

I am not sure why you would bother dealing at all with OEC if you weren't satisfied with their service/charts/etc. If the current value I find in using OEC wasn't there, I would go find one of the other many brokers out there. No reason to waste time fighting with a broker when there is money to be made.

 

Brownsfan, you are consistently willing to provide feedback and help with people's OEC issues including my own. Thanks for the free help.

[thalestrader 14]

As with many things in data reporting, there isn't always a standard is looks like.

 

Here's what I was able to get regarding this issue:

 

Bottom line: It is not a bug. There are several implementations of range bars. It seems OEC is using one that differs from eSignal and Sierra.

 

Is OEC's implementation correct? That is open for discussion as pointed out here.

 

Could OEC conform to how eSignal and Sierra reports? Yes, if approved.

 

One other thing to note is OEC doesn’t fill gaps with fake ticks.

I would suggest that if you would like the data represented according to how eSignal and Sierra presents the data, send a support ticket expressing your desire.

 

 

There are several different implementations of range bars? Are there several different implementations of minute bars as well? Would it make sense to load a 5 minute chart, and have some bars that are 4 minutes and others that are 6? Range bars are understood everywhere in the world to be a chart where each bar is the same number of ticks. OEC doesn't use "fake ticks" to fill gaps? Well there is part of the problem. The other part seems to be a technological incompetence. Range bars such as those in the examples above are useless. If range bars are important to you, daedalus, then do as Dinero suggested and move on.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[brownsfan019 17]

There are several different implementations of range bars? Are there several different implementations of minute bars as well? Would it make sense to load a 5 minute chart, and have some bars that are 4 minutes and others that are 6? Range bars are understood everywhere in the world to be a chart where each bar is the same number of ticks. OEC doesn't use "fake ticks" to fill gaps? Well there is part of the problem. The other part seems to be a technological incompetence. Range bars such as those in the examples above are useless. If range bars are important to you, daedalus, then do as Dinero suggested and move on.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

Once again, I am simply the messenger.

 

There was a question/problem, I took time out of my day to get the answer and then came back here to present it to the forum. I even offered a suggestion of what to do if the current construction is not suitable.

 

And I do all of this out of the generosity of my heart (ie for FREE) b/c there are some good people here that I try to get information to. I realize that some guys are on sim or have small accounts that perhaps getting to the bottom of a technical issue like this may take awhile or may not get resolved. I sent a few emails and then came back w/ the answer for you guys.

 

If the answer is not suitable, you as a trader have a decision to make.

[thalestrader 14]

Once again, I am simply the messenger.

 

No problem, Brownie. I wasn't criticizing you, and I understood that you were simply relaying OEC's explanation. I just find their explanation ridiculous. A range bar chart is constructed of bars of equal tick counts. OEC's explanation seems to imply that the definition of a range bar chart is one of opinion rather than fact. I agree with you, and said as much when I said that if range bars are important to a trader, OEC is not the place for that trader to trade.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

Edited February 6, 2010 by thalestrader

[brownsfan019 17]

No problem, Brownie. I wasn't criticizing you, and I understood that you were simply relaying OEC's explanation. I just find their explanation ridiculous. A range bar chart is constructed of bars of equal tick counts. OEC's explanation seems to imply that the definition of a range bar chart is one of opinion rather than fact. I agree with you, and said as much when I said that if range bars are important to a trader, OEC is not the place for that trader to trade.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

Right. I do not use range bars, so it's a non-issue for myself. But if it's a deal breaker and OEC is not constructing them as you expect, then you have a choice to make - use them as is or find a new place to trade.

[Akrav 10]

Hi All ! I have that problem with range bar : If I choose 4pips bar for example the chart make 4pips but it doesn't one bar As it should be it chart 3 of 4 bar in the same price range. The problem start to appearance before at 28/03/10. after I reinstalled my windows XP. Was anybody experience same problem ?

[trader273 10]

If a new bar needs a price a level that is gapped over, of course the range charts will have one less than what the user specified. How do you expect the chart to show a price level that hasn't been traded at?

 

Happens more than you think. If you are trading oil and you need 80.10 to trade and make a new bar and it goes from 80.09 to 80.11, what would you really like the chart to do?

[daedalus 10]

anyone know if OEC changed the 5 pip = 4 pip bar error? All my bars seem to be constant and correct these days on 3.4.0.8?

[DugDug 10]

have just looked at a few charts on mine - looks AOK at a simple check using ten pips range bar on a few charts - 6E, 6A, using the latest version updated on Monday.

The only thing I noticed (as I have just closed down) is that some bars are equal, in which case I would have thought a new bar should NOT have been drawn if the highs and lows of two bars next to each other are the same?

[Akrav 10]

Dear trader273 ! Thanks for the attention !

Ok maybe I was not enough understandably but there are the picture. In addition as I mentioned this problem didn't appear in the past ,it began appear now after re-installation my windows . So The example with OIL is not exactly appropriate

Range22.doc

[trader273 10]

Dear trader273 ! Thanks for the attention !

Ok maybe I was not enough understandably but there are the picture. In addition as I mentioned this problem didn't appear in the past ,it began appear now after re-installation my windows . So The example with OIL is not exactly appropriate

 

Ok, I see now. People were talking about two different things.

 

I understand your problem and the chart that you have isnt correct, that's for sure. As to why it's wrong, I have no idea. I think I found the same time frame as your chart and mine looks correct. Don't know if its a computer issue on your end or a sim vs live data feed thing. Best bet is to ask OEC directly.

 

[Akrav 10]

Tanks, I'll to solve with stuf

[Trendup_ 10]

3.4 and 3.5 demo range bar timeframe is incorrect.:angry: (Production 3.4 is OK).

I sent a message to OEC.

 

[daedalus 10]

Yea i just confirmed with a friend that there seems to be a different data feed going out from the demo vs. live.

 

on 3.4.0.8 demo there are constant range bars, live feeds its different.

 

This only pisses me off for the fact that as traders we try and keep things consistent in our approaches and the data feed's OEC is providing aren't even all the same in house? WTF?

[Trendup_ 10]

It must be a different feed as the problem is affecting the demo accounts only and demo 3.4 didn’t update lately.

Hard to tell what’s going on, it’ll take time before OEC make it right, in the meantime I can’t use the demos anymore.

 

Shouldn’t be so hard to get it right:

Range Bar charts have the following characteristics:

• Each bar is the same height because the range is constant.

• The close of a bar is always at the high or low of the bar.

• The open of a bar is always one tick below or above the close of the preceding bar.

• The time period covered by each bar varies. As based on range.

[brownsfan019 17]

Couple things here fellas:

 

1) Demo is just that - demo. It's there to test the software out. It's not meant to replicate production verbatim.

 

2) As was stated previously, OEC has taken the stance of NOT filling bad ticks on range bars. Which means....

 

You have a 10 range chart on the CL.

Your high is 80.10.

So would assume your low is 80.00.

And when price is moving from point A to point B, it will be.

HOWEVER, when price is at 80.01 and the NEXT print is 79.99 there is an 'issue'. OEC has chosen to not give you a fake print that never happened (80.00 in this example).

This is why you will see range bars that are not always equal in size on OEC.

 

And to be honest, I can't fault them in this after researching this more. Do you want them to give you fake prints? I can just imagine what the forums would say when it would be found out that OEC is backfilling w/ non-existent prints on range bars for the sake of making the range bars even...

 

So the range bars are set this way in OEC and if that is unacceptable, you have alternatives out there. You just have to decide do you want true prints only or fake, back filling prints as well.

[Trendup_ 10]

All that is going to get very complicated and painfull for those who use constant range bar charts.

1- I use range bars everyday and even if the display seems to be faulty using some symbols and/or timeframes

( as reported by post #1) I am quite happy to use 2pips and 8pis range bars for the ES in the current format.

2- The demo (3.4) is the program I’m paying for and I’m not supposed to play the guinea pig to implement any change. The demo must be as good as the production as it is the one I use for strategies.

3- I don’t mind if 3.5 is not perfect as in development.

4- A change (in 3.4) could be needed to fix the current problem as described in the previous posts re: bars not having the same length.

5- the fault I reported in post #19 describe a different story where you can see that there is multiplication of bars that clogged the chart and as the result stuffed up your chart and indicators so badly that it is unpraticable. If ‘1pips’ is selected the platform crashes.

6- I’ve reported the demo bug to OEC the answer is:

The range bars have been modified to match Trade Stations "momentum" range bars. This will be released in the live environment in the near future.

 

My point is: The range bar should be as stated in post #21

Range Bar charts have the following characteristics:

• Each bar is the same height because the range is constant.

• The close of a bar is always at the high or low of the bar.

• The open of a bar is always one tick below or above the close of the preceding bar.

• The time period covered by each bar varies. As based on range.

 

If OEC wants to add something and give the choice to their customers I’m very pleased with that approach. But OEC should not implement any replacements that can affect the trading methodology of their clients without warning or consultation.

 

I look at the Demo and my charts were so weird I nearly fall over, something is very wrong here the sooner OEC realise it, the better for everybody.

I’ve been supportive to OEC; in this case I must admit I’m very disappointed.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Trendup_

[Trendup_ 10]

Hi brownsfan,

The new implementation, only in the demos at the moment, is worst in my opinion than the current range bars.

[DugDug 10]

Is there a way to build your own range bars as an indicator in OEC?

(I have not investigated its programing capabilities yet)

 

I think both BF and trendup make good points either way for and against OEC policies.

 

The important thing is consistency - if OEC change their calculation of range bars, they should give it another name, and let users determine which they want to use.....there is nothing worse than not being able to trust a system from upgrade to upgrade.