Gun Shy Cant Pull the Trigger

[rxs0005 10]

Hi

 

i need some advice i have been paper trading on a strategy i have had quite a decent success with about 76% wins

 

 

but i just cant seem to pull the trigger in the real market

 

what do i do

 

 

thanks for your advice

 

cheers

 

rxs0005

[thalestrader 14]

... i just cant seem to pull the trigger in the real market

 

what do i do...

 

You die ...

 

 

I don't mean to sound facetious, but a few years ago I had a terrible, terrible loss, and for several weeks I was unable to pull the trigger. I said the same thing to a friend of mine, and he sent me an email with the same message and that picture. Woke me right up and I've been fine ever since.

 

Bottom line, if you don't have the nerve to trade, you need to move on to something else. If you are trading with money you cannot afford to lose, then go away and come back when you have some you can afford to lose. What are you looking to trade, anyway? if you are trading stocks, just bring position size down. If you are trading futures, trade the mini-ags or even a microFX account where you can keep risk in the single and double digits at first.

 

If you are afraid to pull the trigger, you fear losing. Find something you can trade where you won't have to fear the loss.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[Gabe2004 10]

if you are trading stocks, just bring position size down. If you are trading futures, trade the mini-ags or even a microFX account where you can keep risk in the single and double digits at first.

 

 

You can try the ETFs that mimic the indexes (SPY, IWM, QQQQ)

500 SPY = 1 ES

 

Gabe

[rxs0005 10]

thanks guys

 

for the RAW advice also realized if i want to make money i should put my money down and more importantly FAITH in my set up and strategy

 

i think i fear more of being wrong than losing money as i can get out quick i think my ego would be hurt that i am stupid and got whipsawed

 

but i will focus on improving the strategy as i get my feet wet and hopefully i can trade fearless someday.

 

i know i will get there -- its the starting trouble

 

BTW i trade only ETF's

 

thanks y'all

[Charlton 10]

Hi

 

i need some advice i have been paper trading on a strategy i have had quite a decent success with about 76% wins

 

 

but i just cant seem to pull the trigger in the real market

 

what do i do

 

 

thanks for your advice

 

cheers

 

rxs0005

 

You make sure you have a suitable stop-loss or you reduce position size so it won't hurt too much and then just pull it.......pull it ...........pull it '..........PULL IT ........ DO IT !!!!!!

 

Like any phobia it's all in the mind and you will only get over it by facing it and taking action.

 

Afterwards you will find it wasn't so bad after all. The next time it will be easier still.

 

Charlton

[ochie 10]

IMO, a lot of these common issues such as a fear of loosing or fear-based errors can be eliminated by developing a strong core belief in probabilities associated with your edge. This thought is from a Douglas quote that stuck a long time ago.

[DugDug 10]

reminds me of an old saying

 

"The first step in a 1000 mile journey is the hardest"

 

Try and work out WHY you have a fear.

If its just about stepping into the unknown, then there is no other answer but to just jump and pull the trigger.

If its about the fear of loosing. Then you need to understand the probabilities behind the strategy and remind your self that losses ARE inevitable.

As a suggestion just buy and sell a few times on something liquid, whereby you will pay a little bit of brokerage, and cross the spread - take a small loss and just get into the vibe of the thing ( reference The Castle - an Australian movie from about 8 years ago)

[FXGirl 10]

Dear Shy Guy: All the advice given here, reduce your lot size, recognize that losses are a part of trading, develop faith in the probabilities of your system, and ‘just do it’, are all good suggestions.

 

But what I heard you say was that you are afraid that you might be wrong and that would mean you are stupid and you would feel like a fool.

 

If you had a way to deal with the internal dialogue telling you that the market might prove that you are stupid, and you would hate feeling that way, any of the above suggestions would work for you – and you never would have started this thread. But until you deal with what is generating the internal dialogue, you will probably struggle with implementing any of this good advice.

 

Right now, your strategy for dealing with the emotions you feel is to avoid taking a trade. That is a strategy that works – emotionally. If you don’t take a trade, you won’t feel like a fool, and the market can’t give you any evidence that you are stupid. But this strategy doesn’t work if you want to become a successful trader. You have to develop a new strategy for dealing with your internal dialogue and the emotions it generates.

 

First, talk out loud. Get what you are saying internally out in the open where you can examine it. Writing it down will work too. You may be surprised to find that there is quite a lot you’ve been saying to yourself. You need this information to understand what is happening in your trading. Once you know what you are saying to yourself, ask, “Have I heard those words before?” “Is it my voice I’m hearing or is it someone else’s voice?”

 

If this dialogue is something you haven’t heard before and it is in your own voice, then most likely it is trading specific and you can deal with it fairly easily. This is the place where we need feedback from you. Tell us what you found out about your dialogue. But in any case, be sure you ask yourself these questions: “Is there something about my strategy that I’m not fully comfortable with?” and “Do I, and the people who depend on me, have realistic expectations about how long it takes to become a successful trader?”

 

If the dialogue is something you have heard yourself say before, ask, “What is it about trading that triggers this dialogue?” and “Is it true?” Then give us your feedback and we’ll go from there.

 

If the dialogue is something you have heard before, especially if you have heard it all your life, and it isn’t in your voice, then you have a bigger issue and will need to deal with it before for you can reasonably expect to be a successful trader. If you don’t, it will continue to interfere with your trading in surprisingly negative ways. Although it is certainly possible to deal with this on your own, generally, you can make much faster progress with a little help. Look for a psychologist, someone with a PhD who specializes in brief therapy or cognitive behavioral therapy – there are a few good ones out there. Feel free to interview them before deciding whom to work with.

 

In the meantime, while we are waiting for your feedback, I want you to know these things:

 

The market makes fools of us all - we are all wrong on occasion. We were wrong a lot in the beginning; now it's better.

 

Though smart helps, trading the market is more about persistence than it is about being smart.

 

Trading is the grandest game out there – but that’s what it is, it’s a game. It isn’t who you are.

 

Yours,

Dr. FxGirl

[suriNotes 11]

rxs,

 

There are few books/articles addressed this particular topic.

 

I have posted a list of books/articles somewhere, but can't remember the site/URL.

 

Check out Dr. Ned Gandevani's book

"How to Become A Successful Trader" ..

There is a chapter dedicated to the topic.

 

Another good article in SFO magazine (few years ago)

titled "Why Can't I pull Trigger'....

 

Also, here is an excellent article by Price Headley

Conquer The 4 Fears Of Trading

 

Good Luck!

 

Regards,

Suri

[rxs0005 10]

Gents and ladies

 

thanks for the all the genuine advice i did go in today this is what happened :

 

my strategy triggered a open position

 

i got in ( using small position )

 

immediately I felt that i was wrong ! ( i did not fear about losing money but being wrong )

 

went into cancel the order too late!

 

next thing i know i am in the GREEN !!

 

used my exit strategy and got out about right and made money

 

Lesson learnt :

 

Beleif in your system

focus on the probability of success on the strategy

 

and most important of all

 

Just do it !

 

its only money not my life

 

thanks y'all for the support and trust me i am using u r advice and executing it

 

one other thing i found very helpful is

 

after all the news and nosie is baked in i limit my input only to my quote streamer and charts no CNBC no other external outputs just razor focus on my strategy

[DugDug 10]

No offence FX girl intended - but I just had a laugh at reading this as my girlfriend and I just watched a comedy show about the difference between men and women.

 

Most of the blokes said just do it, you had a lot of writing about dialogue, talking etc.

 

All the same thing in the end result.....except most guys are are bit more blunt.

well done rxs

[FXGirl 10]

No offense taken, DugDug. Men and women are different - in plenty of ways. However, if "just do it", doesn't result in just doing it, follow the steps above.

[jonbig04 10]

No offense taken, DugDug. Men and women are different - in plenty of ways. However, if "just do it", doesn't result in just doing it, follow the steps above.

 

IMHO you were spot on. In trading we must learn to embrace things that, in almost all other professions, we try at all costs to avoid. You could even say we are programmed to avoid them: losing money and being wrong.

[justtrade01 10]

No offence FX girl intended - but I just had a laugh at reading this as my girlfriend and I just watched a comedy show about the difference between men and women.

 

Most of the blokes said just do it, you had a lot of writing about dialogue, talking etc.

 

All the same thing in the end result.....except most guys are are bit more blunt.

well done rxs

 

DugDug, Could you share the name of that program with us ? I am very interested in this topic and I love reading the books of Alen and Barbra Pease about this.

 

Regards

[DugDug 10]

the show was a comedy talk show in the UK called IQ - I think it was a repeat - it was not a serious documentary

[natedredd10 10]

I would highly suggest learning to play microstakes online poker...especially if you have issues with having to be right.

It gives you cheap practice with everything being setup perfectly, going for it but still losing even though you made the correct play. Lost money on the hand but it was the correct play when viewed over a series of correct plays.

Also cheap practice for the opposite of having nothing, should be folding, but instead having to be right and getting smacked.

[DugDug 10]

Here is an interesting related dilemma that I seem to have developed lately. Its driving me crazy and while I have my own possible solution.... stop trading all together for a while and refresh. I was wondering if FX girl has some other suggestions for this particular ailment.

 

My problem - I am actually picking the market really well. Bearish equities, bullish bonds - not touching commodities. however I seem to be going to early. ie; rather than being gun shy I am being trigger happy....and hence getting chopped a little too much (the obvious reversal advice from just do it to just stop doing it might be all its needed) however I would be interested in what others do to curb this horrible horrible affliction.

[FXGirl 10]

Well, it seems with guys that a hardy "just do it" works. So let's see if saying "just stop doing it" works. So, DugDug, "JUST STOP DOING IT!"

 

On a more serious note, DugDug, it sounds like you are very confident about your trading, have had a lot of successes which are the basis for that confidence. That's all good. So, are you just excited to get in (ie., this is fun), or are you afraid you'll miss out if you don't jump in, or are you at a place where you feel you rule the market?

 

Until you can tell me more about the reason you are jumping in too soon, try to put a little space in between the impulse to get into the trade and the action of taking the trade. An example of this might be getting up from the desk, walking to the other side of the room and taking a couple of deep breaths before returning to the computer.

 

Assuming that you plan your trades and are using a trading style that doesn't require split-second reactions, any activity that takes your eyes off the charts for a bit will probably help give you the mental space you need to be more deliberate in timing your entry. If some simple activity doesn't do it and you need serious space, try unplugging your mouse and putting it in another room (or the refrigerator) or giving it to your wife.

 

One of the best ways to deal with impulsive behavior is to calm your physiology. You can't be agitated and relaxed at the same time. Close your eyes, take long, slow deep breathes - use you diaphragm to breathe, relax your shoulders. Focus your mind on the rise and fall of your abdomen. Keep it up for 5 minutes. This is guaranteed to relax you. If you practice this a couple of times a day, your body will learn what is expected of it. Then, you can trigger this physiological response by simply taking a couple of breaths when ever trading gets tense.

 

Hope this helps.

[DugDug 10]

thanks fx girl....

I really have no idea why i am jumping in early.

"are you just excited to get in (ie., this is fun)," - possibly, - they are usually called boredom trades for a reason. But I dont find it fun, I treat this as a business so the answer is NO

" or are you afraid you'll miss out if you don't jump in," MOST LIKELY - I have been picking the moves really well (except corn hurt me the other day and that was a position I built into over a few weeks), so its kind of along the lines of what I thought.... and you repeated - I just need to stop for a while.....walk away altogether - a few deep breaths wont cut it. thanks.

Maybe I will take a few weeks off.

"or are you at a place where you feel you rule the market? "- ha-ha. I have been doing this long enough that I am a great believer that no one rules the market. so NO

 

Most of the answers are simple - its working the reasons for why we do things that is the tough part.

[DugDug 10]

yes mother - I am coming now, I'm sorry I forgot your tea.... no I was not talking to anyone, there is no one else here..... arrrghghgghh

[thalestrader 14]

I find trading to be fun. Unequivocally so.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[FXGirl 10]

Hi, DugDug: We could root around and find out if not getting chosen for the team or missing the senior prom contributed to your feelings of being left out, but probably your diagnosis is the correct one. Take a break. Have some fun. I hear Morocco and Costa Rica are nice this time of year, depending on whether you like your country green or brown.

[BlowFish 10]

No offence FX girl intended - but I just had a laugh at reading this as my girlfriend and I just watched a comedy show about the difference between men and women.

 

Most of the blokes said just do it, you had a lot of writing about dialogue, talking etc.

 

All the same thing in the end result.....except most guys are are bit more blunt.

well done rxs

 

Ego is one of the big obstacles to trading (executing) well. Whether men or women tend to have bigger ego's is probably not relevant to this particular discussion.

[BlowFish 10]

rxs005, there has been lots of good advice. One thing I did not see mentioned was your plan. I wonder if that is 'solid enough'? You should have built some sort of confidence through sim if you where doing it consistently. If your plan allows too much discretion it is hard to build confidence in it (the plan). You will tend to equate outcomes with your analytical abilities if the plan is not well defined.

[natedredd10 10]

rxs005, there has been lots of good advice. One thing I did not see mentioned was your plan. I wonder if that is 'solid enough'? You should have built some sort of confidence through sim if you where doing it consistently. If your plan allows too much discretion it is hard to build confidence in it (the plan). You will tend to equate outcomes with your analytical abilities if the plan is not well defined.

 

To me another interesting aspect that traders can take from pro online poker players is learning more about sample size. If you look on the poker forums, people will post equity curves just like on trading forums. The huge difference though is you will see someone post having played 1500 hands and everyone will chime in that the sample size is simply too small to know if you are simply viewing variance itself.

The other end of this is that you can't really wait in a SIM to make 10,000 trades and get a good sample size, not to mention the market is a moving target so it won't mean much anyway by the time you are done.

Faith is super important because at some point you need an aspect to your mind of being a degen gambler who knows they are right and can push an edge but also disciplined enough to cut losers fast.