Which Broker for Trading Stocks, Fx & Futures with NT ?

[smuhr 10]

Good morning,

 

I am new to NT and I do not now which broker is the best for trading Stock, Futures & FX with automated System.

 

I have read that IB is not really good for Data Feed and Historical Data

Mirus & AMP Futures does not allow you to trade stocks

Has MB Trading a good Data Feed & Historical Data ?

 

Thank you for your advice,

Steven

[sevensa 10]

Good morning,

 

I am new to NT and I do not now which broker is the best for trading Stock, Futures & FX with automated System.

 

I have read that IB is not really good for Data Feed and Historical Data

Mirus & AMP Futures does not allow you to trade stocks

Has MB Trading a good Data Feed & Historical Data ?

 

Thank you for your advice,

Steven

 

What is bad about IB's datafeed? I've been using it for years and don't have any issues with it with my type of trading.

 

Are you really going to trade stocks, forex and futures? Do you know what data you need, tick level, minute, daily? Have you found a reliable method and edge yet? If not, you probably should concentrate on that first and figure out what and how you really want to trade before you try to find the "best" broker. If you are learning to drive, you will not go and buy full and top of the line racing gear and a Ferrari up front, but just something cheap to start of with to get used to driving.

 

Remember a broker is typically just a broker and not a datafeed provider, with tradestation probably the exception. Many brokers do provide a feed, but their main business is to be a broker first. The same goes for data providers. Their main business is to provide a datafeed and not brokerage services.

 

Asking questions like what is best, sound logical but really isn't as simple to answer. What is best is what will fit your requirements the best. You need to know exactly what your requirements are before you can decide what is best for them.

[rcossey73 10]

I am not sure if there is a broker out there that is going to fit your needs completely. Maybe Tradestation would be a better fit?

 

But I wanted to help explain the possible concerns with IB data.

 

IB does not send tick by tick data, they aggregate it and send it every 250ms (I think that is still the number). There are really only 2 concerns with this. I no longer use IB, but for other reasons and I never really had issues with their data...

 

1) Some people feel aggregated data is a disadvantage since other data providers send tick by tick. It is possible to not get all ticks as electronic markets are extremely fast and many trades can happen in a 250ms window.

 

2) The internet is not a guaranteed service so you could lose packets at times, if you lose a data packet from IB you are losing 250ms worth of data and not just one tick. Also along these same lines, if IB's servers are under stress like after FOMC announcements then the server may inadvertently skip one or more data cycles. This is likely to also be the case for a tick by tick data provider, but in that case you will lose a couple ticks, instead of 250ms worth(may still only be a couple ticks)!

 

I have no direct experience with MB Trading, but I would suspect they also aggregate data.

 

I also know when I was using IB with NT there was an issue that if TWS stopped receiving data NT would not know and you could think everything was fine when in reality the market just passed you by...

[Tams 20]

...

But I wanted to help explain the possible concerns with IB data.

 

IB does not send tick by tick data, they aggregate it and send it every 250ms (I think that is still the number). There are really only 2 concerns with this. I no longer use IB, but for other reasons and I never really had issues with their data...

...

 

 

this is a very common misconception... let me explain and maybe you can see the differences.

 

1. All data suppliers aggregate their data, inlcuding eSignal. (read the fine print)

 

2. The data from the exchanges can be aggregated !!! e.g. read the CME fine print.

i.e. you had aggregated data to begin with, what difference does it make if the data supplier also aggregates the data?

 

3. IB aggregates the data to the MAXIMUM of 250ms.

i.e. if there were 10 ticks in a second,

you could get as many as 10 packets of quotes,

or you could get as little as 4 packets of quotes,

or anything in between,

...but not less than 4.

250ms is the max latency, not the given.

 

4. ALL broker quotes are aggregated, some aggregate more than 250ms.

i.e. IB's data is not any worse than your "other" alternatives.

IB got more publicity, because misinformation gets pass on faster than facts.

 

 

HTH

Edited December 31, 2009 by Tams

[Tams 20]

...I also know when I was using IB with NT there was an issue that if TWS stopped receiving data NT would not know and you could think everything was fine when in reality the market just passed you by...

 

 

TWS has audio alarms that alert you if the internet connection is broken.

You set it under the Configuration menu.

[rcossey73 10]

TWS has audio alarms that alert you if the internet connection is broken.

You set it under the Configuration menu.

 

I am not sure how you would code this into an automated system, if possible then that shouldn't be a concern then...

 

On the data aggregation, I think you are really splitting hairs there. I wasn't saying it was better or worse than any other provider. I was only trying to explain what I have heard as concerns.. Either way it was never an issue with me and very seldom has a brokers data feed not been good enough for me.

[sevensa 10]

I am not sure how you would code this into an automated system, if possible then that shouldn't be a concern then...

.

 

I am not sure how this is an IB issue? Isn't this is an issue/concern for any automated system with any broker to know when you lose internet connection?

[Tams 20]

...

On the data aggregation, I think you are really splitting hairs there. I wasn't saying it was better or worse than any other provider. I was only trying to explain what I have heard as concerns.. Either way it was never an issue with me and very seldom has a brokers data feed not been good enough for me.

 

 

I think you are splitting hair on what I said...

 

read my signature line, and read my post again, and see if I have contra'ed any of the things you mentioned above.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Tams

[Tams 20]

...I also know when I was using IB with NT there was an issue that if TWS stopped receiving data NT would not know and you could think everything was fine when in reality the market just passed you by...

 

TWS has audio alarms that alert you if the internet connection is broken.

You set it under the Configuration menu.

 

I am not sure how you would code this into an automated system, if possible then that shouldn't be a concern then...

...

 

 

Can you give an example on how you could do this with other broker/trading software combination?

[rcossey73 10]

I am not sure how this is an IB issue? Isn't this is an issue/concern for any automated system with any broker to know when you lose internet connection?

 

In order to automate a strategy with NT and IB, you have to establish a connection between TWS and NT. TWS is connected to IB servers and not NT. With most other data providers NT is connected directly to the data providers and can detect failures directly. When I used TWS with NT there was no way for TWS to alert NT that connection was lost to IB servers.

[Tams 20]

In order to automate a strategy with NT and IB, you have to establish a connection between TWS and NT. TWS is connected to IB servers and not NT. With most other data providers NT is connected directly to the data providers and can detect failures directly. When I used TWS with NT there was no way for TWS to alert NT that connection was lost to IB servers.

 

 

I do not have experience in this... I have a few questions:

 

1. How does NT detect disconnection with other brokers? (which brokers?)

 

2. What is NT going to do if there is a disconnection?

 

3. How is NT going to alert you if there is a disconnection?

[rcossey73 10]

Can you give an example on how you could do this with other broker/trading software combination?

 

Where did I say that you could or should? As far as I know most other providers have a direct connection between NT and the providers servers and you don't have to rely upon another application.

[rcossey73 10]

1. How does NT detect disconnection with other broker?

 

2. What is NT going to do if there is a disconnection?

 

3. How is NT going to alert you there is a disconnection?

 

1) Not sure, I would suggest you check with NT's docs or support staff to be certain.

 

2) Try to establish a new connection, something it doesn't know to do if TWS stops working.

 

3) There are probably several ways, I would suggest you check with NT's docs or support staff to be certain.

[Tams 20]

Where did I say that you could or should? As far as I know most other providers have a direct connection between NT and the providers servers and you don't have to rely upon another application.

 

 

I still do not understand your point...

 

so what would happen if there is a disconnection?

 

what would do what?

 

1. the broker software would take some action? like what?

 

2. the broker server would take some action?

e.g. liquidate your positions?

do you program the broker's side for action?

 

3. NT would take some action? What actions?

[Tams 20]

...

 

2) Try to establish a new connection, something it doesn't know to do if TWS stops working.

....

 

 

TWS automatically and continuously retries connection when broken.

This is just a basic function, I am sure any broker's software would do the same.

[sevensa 10]

In order to automate a strategy with NT and IB, you have to establish a connection between TWS and NT. TWS is connected to IB servers and not NT. With most other data providers NT is connected directly to the data providers and can detect failures directly. When I used TWS with NT there was no way for TWS to alert NT that connection was lost to IB servers.

 

Really? I had internet issues recently with a bad DSL connection and got frequent "Connection Lost" voice prompts from NT each time this happened and TWS lost connection.

 

Are you actually using IB, or is your comment based on what you "heard" or from something long ago? Not trying to sound rude and apologize if it sounds like it, but I think this is important to know if your comments are based on real experience or heresay or based on using something very long ago.

 

I am still unclear how this an issue with automated systems? Are you saying that when running an automated system in NT that it will send orders to IB even though there is no active data feed when your internet connection is down because you cannot detect it automatically in the strategy? What would the NT strategy base it's orders on then? Sounds like an NT issue to me and not an IB issue.

[Tams 20]

In order to automate a strategy with NT and IB, you have to establish a connection between TWS and NT. TWS is connected to IB servers and not NT. With most other data providers NT is connected directly to the data providers and can detect failures directly. When I used TWS with NT there was no way for TWS to alert NT that connection was lost to IB servers.

 

I do not have experience in this... I have a few questions:

 

1. How does NT detect disconnection with other brokers? (which brokers?)

 

2. What is NT going to do if there is a disconnection?

 

3. How is NT going to alert you if there is a disconnection?

 

1) Not sure, I would suggest you check with NT's docs or support staff to be certain.

 

2) Try to establish a new connection, something it doesn't know to do if TWS stops working.

 

3) There are probably several ways, I would suggest you check with NT's docs or support staff to be certain.

 

 

You mean you are complaining about something that does not exist ??? LOL

[sevensa 10]

Where did I say that you could or should? As far as I know most other providers have a direct connection between NT and the providers servers and you don't have to rely upon another application.

 

I'm a bit confused now as well. You said this is an issue when using IB and NT which implied to me that this is not an issue when using something else. I also would like to know you would code this in an automated system to detect this when you use e-signal for example and why you cannot do that when using IB?

[rcossey73 10]

I still do not understand your point...

 

so what would happen if there is a disconnection?

 

what would do what?

 

1. the broker software would take some action? like what?

 

2. the broker server would take some action?

e.g. liquidate your positions?

do you program the broker's side for action?

 

3. NT would take some action? What actions?

 

1. If TWS has no connection to the servers then NT has no way to know this or act on it. If NT loses connection to servers then it could act in various ways, one is to try and establish a new connection. TWS might be able to do this as well assuming it is working properly otherwise. To be clear the issue has more to do with the application not working properly than say your internet connection is down.

 

2. I never said anything to the sort and only commented on client side application.

 

It seems obvious you like IB and TWS? I didn't say I had a problem with TWS. I had issues with the support staff and left for reasons that had nothing to do with data feed.

 

If I was going to try and program an auto strategy then my opinion is one application is better than 2, especially on a windows box.

 

If you are considering using IB with NT then I strongly suggest you visit with NT to make sure you are using the best possible configuration between NT and TWS, including the right versions of both applications...

[Tams 20]

1. If TWS has no connection to the servers then NT has no way to know this or act on it. If NT loses connection to servers then it could act in various ways, one is to try and establish a new connection. TWS might be able to do this as well assuming it is working properly otherwise. To be clear the issue has more to do with the application not working properly than say your internet connection is down.

 

2. I never said anything to the sort and only commented on client side application.

 

It seems obvious you like IB and TWS? I didn't say I had a problem with TWS. I had issues with the support staff and left for reasons that had nothing to do with data feed.

 

If I was going to try and program an auto strategy then my opinion is one application is better than 2, especially on a windows box.

 

If you are considering using IB with NT then I strongly suggest you visit with NT to make sure you are using the best possible configuration between NT and TWS, including the right versions of both applications...

 

 

I don't know of ONE broker that allows you to have direct connection to their server.

There is ALWAYS a connecting program resident in YOUR computer.

This program might not be visible to you, but it is there.

[Tams 20]

...

It seems obvious you like IB and TWS?

...

 

 

I thought we were discussing FACTS... No need to be juvenile.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Tams

[sevensa 10]

If I was going to try and program an auto strategy then my opinion is one application is better than 2, especially on a windows box.

 

I am sorry, but this makes no sense. If you use e-signal for example connecting to NT, this is one application. Then you still need another application to place orders with your broker. This is a 2nd application. Then you still use NT which is your third application. So, you would rather not use TWS to avoid using two applications to opt for a solution using three?

 

So, you are not using an auto strategy and have not coded one and is not using IB with TWS??? What are you basing your comments on auto trading with NT through TWS then? Where did you get your facts from?

[rcossey73 10]

I am sorry, but this makes no sense. If you use e-signal for example connecting to NT, this is one application. Then you still need another application to place orders with your broker. This is a 2nd application. Then you still use NT which is your third application. So, you would rather not use TWS to avoid using two applications to opt for a solution using three?

 

So, you are not using an auto strategy and have not coded one and is not using IB with TWS??? What are you basing your comments on auto trading with NT through TWS then? Where did you get your facts from?

 

I don't use e-signal so not sure how it works. I do use NT with Zen-Fire data feed and there is not another application or two others as you state. I use NT to place orders with my broker...

 

You failed to read my first post then, I stated that I did use IB and with NT and do not use them any longer. If this issue no longer exist than that is fine, I only pointed out that it was an issue.

[rcossey73 10]

I don't know of ONE broker that allows you to have direct connection to their server.

There is ALWAYS a connecting program resident in YOUR computer.

This program might not be visible to you, but it is there.

 

If there is then I can't find it, and if so then that means there are 3 apps required for NT to work with IB then.

[sevensa 10]

I don't use e-signal so not sure how it works. I do use NT with Zen-Fire data feed and there is not another application or two others as you state. I use NT to place orders with my broker...

 

You failed to read my first post then, I stated that I did use IB and with NT and do not use them any longer. If this issue no longer exist than that is fine, I only pointed out that it was an issue.

 

Ok, so how you do code your automated strategy to detect that Zen-Fire lost connection and is no longer feeding data?