Trader P/L 2010

[Cory2679 11]

It's too bad there aren't smaller crude oil lots like with spot Forex (ie $0.10/tick, $1/tick)...I would think that starting out that small would make the transition from SIM to live easier...

[Dinerotrader 10]

It's too bad there aren't smaller crude oil lots like with spot Forex (ie $0.10/tick, $1/tick)...I would think that starting out that small would make the transition from SIM to live easier...

 

That would be nice. I think that same thing all the time.

[momop 10]

Real

-$544

 

 

 

Well, I feel like a failure but oh well. Gotta keep working at it. I'll be going back to SIM now to see if I can fix a few problems I ran into. During these past 3 days of live trading I saw some issues that still need work.

Sorry to see your losses, but hang in there Dinero. Can you backtest with sim for those loss days and see if the entries/exit were same ? May be some emotional element caught you while being live.

[Gabe2004 10]

That would be nice. I think that same thing all the time.

 

USO trades almost 1:1 relative to CL and 1 CL = 2000 USO.

 

Could you post a chart or two with your entries and exits?

 

Gabe

[enochbenjamin 10]

I know nobody wants my opinion, but here goes.

 

SIM trading cannot duplicate the emotions that arise from within when real money is on the line. With SIM trades I can set a target of $1 and watch it get 80¢ and retrace back down to 20¢ before hitting my target of 100¢. Now for real life - no way I'm watching 60¢ of profits disappear. Its just not the same.

 

If we had a SIM contest I'm certain I can trade circles around just about anybody. But in the real world I am just a below average trader who barely eeks out a profit. But I take my lumps with real money because I sincerely believe that is the cost of tuition for this profession. I will never learn how to control my emotions SIM trading - I will only get that feeling when the rent money is on the line!

 

Growing up I was the Monopoly king in my family. I would always have houses hotels everywhere and the fam would always say your going to be a landlord one day. Well that day came and I can tell you while the concept is there Monopoly does nothing to prepare you for collecting rent from real people struggling to get by. There is no book you can read that can explain the mixed feelings you have evicting a single mom with young kids. The only way to know how it feels is to go to court and experience it.

 

I'm not saying that SIM trading doesn't have its merits - all I'm saying is that SIM trading will not allow you to experience the anxiety of risking your hard earned money. There is nothing that can mimic the experience of losing.

 

just my 2¢'s worth.

 

Side note: I mainly trade CL because the volatility usually provides many opportunities daily. But after a losing streak I switch over to 6B because it has similar volatility but with a lower risk/tick ($6.25/tick). Once I get my confidence back with 6B - I earn the right to trade CL again. I've tried to do the same with QM but 6B seems to work better for me. Maybe others might consider trading something (YM?) with less risk until you feel confident to trade CL.

 

Just food for thought.

[momop 10]

My Sim results

-----------

-9

5

8

29

-27

-22

-95

-66

--------------

Net Profit = -177$

 

Problem was I went all short and market reversed and took my stops. Note to self: Need to get my long plays going. Still working on my long signals.

[bathrobe 10]

I know nobody wants my opinion, but here goes.

 

SIM trading cannot duplicate the emotions that arise from within when real money is on the line. With SIM trades I can set a target of $1 and watch it get 80¢ and retrace back down to 20¢ before hitting my target of 100¢. Now for real life - no way I'm watching 60¢ of profits disappear. Its just not the same.

 

If we had a SIM contest I'm certain I can trade circles around just about anybody. But in the real world I am just a below average trader who barely eeks out a profit. But I take my lumps with real money because I sincerely believe that is the cost of tuition for this profession. I will never learn how to control my emotions SIM trading - I will only get that feeling when the rent money is on the line!

 

Growing up I was the Monopoly king in my family. I would always have houses hotels everywhere and the fam would always say your going to be a landlord one day. Well that day came and I can tell you while the concept is there Monopoly does nothing to prepare you for collecting rent from real people struggling to get by. There is no book you can read that can explain the mixed feelings you have evicting a single mom with young kids. The only way to know how it feels is to go to court and experience it.

 

I'm not saying that SIM trading doesn't have its merits - all I'm saying is that SIM trading will not allow you to experience the anxiety of risking your hard earned money. There is nothing that can mimic the experience of losing.

 

just my 2¢'s worth.

 

Side note: I mainly trade CL because the volatility usually provides many opportunities daily. But after a losing streak I switch over to 6B because it has similar volatility but with a lower risk/tick ($6.25/tick). Once I get my confidence back with 6B - I earn the right to trade CL again. I've tried to do the same with QM but 6B seems to work better for me. Maybe others might consider trading something (YM?) with less risk until you feel confident to trade CL.

 

Just food for thought.

 

I completely agree with your assessment. I lost my fair share of real money when I started. The whole time I could successfully trade on sim. I remember when I felt that I had come into my own as a trader, my account was around 5k and I was down $1,500 on the day but the last trade was executed perfectly and it had all the pressure of making my account go down to 3k from 5k in one day. I do not remember what the last trade made (not that much) but I told my dad that I was now at ease with my trading and had confidence in my entries/exits and losses from that point on I was fine with if I had stayed within my plan/rules.

 

I know this last part will not be a popular statement and I am not at all saying this pertains to anyone here because everyone who posts has solid reasons to take a trade but I have wondered if sim exists to lure people into trading fake money so when they start with real cash thinking they were born with a gift they will no doubt over trade (making broker $) and lose.

[Kiwi 16]

I don't think so Bathrobe. Far more people come off the sim too fast (or never go on) and chew away their money. Lots of people don't sim at all (too boring, what's the point, etc etc).

 

To me, the purposes of a sim are:

- to prove that what you see in hindsight is still there in real time

- to forward test a backtest

- to learn some elements of what is needed to trade your plan.

 

It doesn't have to duplicate real emotions, test yourself under monetary pressure etc etc to be a useful tool.

 

I trade real money but I still sim things before I run them with cash. So currently I'm trading indexes (well, I've stopped for Easter) but I'm sim trading longer term Forex. Because the forex trades are infrequent, depending on the number of unexpected results the forex will go live in anywhere from two weeks to two months.

[Dinerotrader 10]

These are some great posts. Good candid discussion about the transition from SIM to real money is so valuable. The journey of the transition will be different for everyone but there will always be similarities. My goal is to take more and more of the split second analysis from my trades so that the emotional/nerves factor won't be able to screw with my entry decisions so much. The emotions certainly weren't my main problem but it was a problem. I'll get this figured out soon and be back to get my money back. I think Brownsfan or Bathrobe took it by the way.

[daedalus 10]

had 3 great setups, none went to targets at +11, all stopped and reversed around 8-9 ticks in favor... guess thats just how it falls sometimes. took a couple ticks here and there to cover commissions on the pars.

[Dinerotrader 10]

If we had a SIM contest I'm certain I can trade circles around just about anybody. But in the real world I am just a below average trader who barely eeks out a profit.

 

I keep thinking about this statement you made. Interesting on several levels. What do you think it is that causes such a huge difference between the your SIM and live money. Is it the money? If so, couldn't you post you entries/exits for someone else to trade so you have nothing at risk except ego.

 

Cory posted something interesting saying that once he realized that he would be posting his SIM results (accountability), that was enough to throw off his game, money was no factor.

 

I saw a big difference in my own trading when I went from secret SIM to posted on the forum SIM. It made trading much harder. It seems possible to me there is an "ego" and a money issue that seperately affect one's trading.

 

If anyone wants to step up their SIM trading to something more challenging, simply start posting your daily blotter results here. No money at risk still, but you'll find many new emotional challenges. You have to decide when to stop trading, admit a losing day, everyday and every trade counts. Post the number of trades you made also. SIM normally doesn't account for commissions so $100 profit in one day is very different for a trader who made that in 3 trades and one who made that amount in 50 trades.

 

Just a few thoughts.

[enochbenjamin 10]

An example occured at approximately 10:45 this morning in CL. I have noted some a.m. resistance at 8510 and R2 at 8491. My VWAP/2nd SD is at 8514 so I make note to self - A shooting star into 8515 would set up a perfect short. If I was SIM trading I would set a sell stop at 8515 with a 10¢ stop and wait for the fun! But with real money I only enter with limits... so I have to sit on pins and needles. And what do you know... we get a shooting star at 8515 (goes to 8523). I should be short, but I'm not - the DOM is moving too fast for me and I get short 8494 - the problem with this entry for me is I know my SL should be above the shooting star - but thats 30¢ away now and way out of my risk parameters. Next price retraces about 15¢ and takes me out with a loss of 10¢. Now I'm pissed cuz I know that price is going back to the VWAP at 8470. But it chops around on the way down and I make several stupid mistakes to max out my daily loss on what should have been 1 simple trade.

 

For me its a big difference. Maybe I should just try trading with stops instead of limit orders.

 

I don't know but I'm figuring it out.

 

PS - I know what happened after the first loss has nothing to do with SIM vs REAL trading - that has 100% to do with discipline.

[Dinerotrader 10]

But with real money I only enter with limits... so I have to sit on pins and needles.

 

Are you saying you delibarately use different entry orders for your SIM than your real trades?

[enochbenjamin 10]

Are you saying you delibarately use different entry orders for your SIM than your real trades?

 

uhmmmm....

[MCM 10]

Went in too early (common theme for me - need to learn from that and remind myself daily) on the initial short of the day. Got shook out - and it proceeded to close the gap. (This is second large move I have missed due to poor entry in the past week.)

 

Managed to claw back and get green with some smaller fib moves and quick profit takes.

 

Expected bottom at close of gap on YM didnt materialize - and went deep in between my zones - so no play on the upside late this afternoon. Adleast I didnt chase (though that would have been profitable today :haha:)

 

Grade for the Day: D+ on entries. C+ on exits. B+ on building the right side of the chart.

 

P

[Dinerotrader 10]

(common theme for me - need to learn from that and remind myself daily)

 

I instituted a rule for myself last week that I cannot begin to trade unless I have re-read my trading plan which includes a list of my common mistakes. I have found it is easy for me to learn something from making a mistake in trading one day and keep making that mistake if I don't give myself reminders of it. I used to say, well I won't do that again, and find myself doing it again. Just a thought. Glad to see you posting here.

[kuro 10]

Only one trade today, no trades yesterday.

 

I trade SIM the same as live trading. I record it in my journal and keep statistics like live trading. If you fool yourself on SIM trading thinking 'I would not have made that mistake if I was trading live" or some other excuse, then you are just fooling yourself. SIM trading is about gaining confidence in your execution so you can trade the same way live. If you lie to yourself I don't think you will ever get that confidence.

[bathrobe 10]

Today I traded my brothers 3k account, we are putting more money in soon. Probably next week. I went into the day looking for a short around 75.75, or 74 due to my pre-open homework. I was reading about Jimmy Hoffa on Wikipedia (seriously, I was:crap:) unfortunately when 75.75 was in play the first time, it never traded through the second time and I got in late at 75 with 2 contracts. I scaled one at 74, and the balance at 67.75. I attached a chart, I think it would be nice if we all start attaching charts showing what we were seeing when we entered.

 

I no longer use only limit orders like I did last year. I missed too many trades and often price would touch my price and move away quite a bit. Now, when shorting I sell the bid and when buying buy the ask, I also take as many trades as I find appealing each day, rather than waiting and loading up like last year. Hope it helps.

 

Chris

 

[momop 10]

Apr/1/2010

-----

I finally got my long plays ready..Still I need to work on entries, but it is in my paper trading system. So some marginal progress.

--------------------

-96

-60

-53

-35

-33

-25

54

55

55

-----------------------------

-138$ (Bearish Stocks)

--------------------------------

 

240-180 (Long eminis) = 60$

 

Net Profit For day = -78$

----------------------------

[daedalus 10]

1 trade 1 winner. Textbook entry and exit as per my rule set. I'm not knocking it out of the park like you all or taking 30 trades a day but i'm seeing results. A couple weeks back I revamped my trade plan significantly and the difference (coupled with 110% compliance with my rules at ALL TIMES) has transformed my results.

 

Again, not hitting it out of the park like you all, but I can take being a brick layer as long as its a profitable brick i'm laying. Soon i'll be a brick layer with some size.

 

Cheers!

[Cory2679 11]

If anyone wants to step up their SIM trading to something more challenging, simply start posting your daily blotter results here. No money at risk still, but you'll find many new emotional challenges. You have to decide when to stop trading, admit a losing day, everyday and every trade counts. Post the number of trades you made also. SIM normally doesn't account for commissions so $100 profit in one day is very different for a trader who made that in 3 trades and one who made that amount in 50 trades.

 

I just wanted to comment on the part of this quote that I highlighted in red...when trading with a forex bucket shop (as I am), this isn't the case. The bucket shops have "no commissions"...they make their commission on the spread (and of course the positions they have against you when you lose). So, the forex bucket shop SIM accounts do include commissions.

 

----------

 

On another note, I'm still planning to begin posting here next week (week beginning 4/11). I figure I might as well go for it...it may throw me off and I may lose, but I have to just do it if I ever hope to overcome it. As far as I'm concerned, I've pretty much "mastered" private SIM trading over the last couple weeks, so it's time to move to the next step (SIM trading "publicly"). Although obviously I will continue to learn/tweak, I've in essence mastered the technique of the approach I'm trading (essentially my own version of the approach thalestrader advocates on his thread...a focus on highs, lows, trend, consolidation, support, resistance). Now it's time to master the psychological effects of pressure/risk...

 

I'm currently re-reading Mark Douglas's Trading in the Zone, and I have his other book, The Disciplined Trader, coming in the mail. Trading in the Zone addresses the EXACT issues I've been dealing with as of late, and I'm really enjoying it.

 

I should mention, I'm now trading solely the EUR/USD during the 6E regular trading hours (8:20AM - 3:00PM Eastern Time)...

 

There's been a lot of talk about transitions in the P/L Thread this week which had me thinking about myself...once I have the size, I'd like someday to transition to currency futures. That being the case, I'd like that transition to be as smooth as possible...daytrading the EUR/JPY, including during the Tokyo session, does not make that transition as smooth as possible (EUR/JPY doesn't have tradable liquidity in futures and during the Tokyo session, volume in futures is considerably lower...and the spreads are wider).

 

So, I'm going to go back to trading solely the EUR/USD, daytrading only during the 6E regular trading hours (8:20 AM - 3:00 PM Eastern Time). While trading until 3pm, in reality I'm watching for the inevitable die off of price anytime after 12...I just play it by ear each day.

 

I already began trading solely the EUR/USD the last couple days...and I already trade during RTH (I just trade Tokyo, too)...it really hasn't had any impact on my trading, so no big deal (although I think I do like the EUR/JPY a little better...it seems to trend better...or at least it seems to stretch its legs more when it does trend...)

[martinguitar 10]

Starting tomorrow i will be posting my Pnl. I have a basic idea of my strategy - entry, stop, exit (sort of). I'll just be sim trading support and resistance. My ego is a HUGE hurdle for me to get over, so win or lose, my Pnl will be posted after every day that i took a trade. I`ll be trading the 6E mainly and i might be watching the NQ and the 6B as well, but this could change if it becomes too much to look at. I`ll be watching/trading the markets from 9 am to 4 pm every single day. School is now over for me, so i have a lot of spare time. Most of my days will be negative so don't expect to see anything else as i test, observe, record and correct. This is the beginning for me.

[bathrobe 10]

From here on out I am posting smaller account results only. I sold 2 on the open ( from my pov perfect setup) and exited at support. I missed a long signal right after my exit, which was a pre-market trade I was looking for, and later lost 1 point, the I read the pa correctly so I am fine with the trade. By the way, the opening trade was not a "gap fill" type trade, after looking into this it is not something I would trade.

 

On the day I made a modest 1.25 points

 

[momop 10]

April/5/2010 : Sim trading results..

 

I had many problems with my system (not mine, but my broker's simulated trading just hung and didn't execute market orders). IB's simulated trading time and again has such issues. I meddled with it manually while the auto was running, so it was messy in the books. But I am going to post what the auto could have/should have done based on my entry logs for some of the positions (little bit of cheating, still I am happy with my entries). Basically I entered long reversal with TF emini while my shorts got stopped out.

 

---------------

LONG: 520

SHORT: -226

 

NET: 294$

-----------------------------------

[stratenworld1 10]

All of these results are for SIM account. All of these trades took place within the first hour of trade.

 

DATE---------PROFIT--------# of TRADES

3-30 -----------+1.75-----------------2

3-31-------------+2---------------------2

4-1-----------------2---------------------2

4-5--------------+3.5-------------------3

Edited April 6, 2010 by stratenworld1
spaces dont show up and everything looks bad. Cant read it