Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

dandxg

Order Flow Analytics

Recommended Posts

OFA is doing something that is different from MD footprint charts or any other recent links provided so I give them some credit. OFA has decided on a statistical level of order flow transition criteria (their algorithmic function) to determine WHEN a new reversal bar should form based upon the order flow that shows conviction.....that is a smart move imo. Of course this function they have built within their software is totally dependent on clean bid/ask data and a platform that can handle that data. If OFA remains using Ninjatrader with a broker provided feed, they will not get fully accurate bid/ask data and will have computational mis-plots of their reversal bars (not good). If OFA software is running in a platform/charting set up that can handle an uncoalesced feed with no data loss, then their trade set up criteria may work just fine (since they are properly pin pointing statistical SHIFTS within the realtime order flow conviction.....which is one of the key components to a proper high probability trade entry determination).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Care to elaborate how this could be done?

In the case of OFA software, they have determined a set amount of contract differential from tracking Cumulative Delta as their algorithmic criteria for a new reversal bar to be initiated. Since I have used Cumulative Delta exclusively now for over 6 years, I know various statistical order flow transition levels that are important to me.....I have no idea what OFA is using as their benchmark order flow transition criteria (Cumulative Delta order flow "flip" differential).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you cannot make money by Understanding and Trading Order Flow itself, irrelevant of which Software (OFA or MarketDelta) provides it, forget it. It really doesnt matter about Algorithms and super programming. Its just another system IMO. Order Flow Trading should stay discretionary as that is where the Edge is. Someone will always come along a promise another Holy Grail, and we all no there is no such thing. So best thing to do is learn how to trade Order Flow Well, find a few Executions patterns that work and just Manage your Risk VERY well. Simple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Care to elaborate how this could be done?

 

Nothing is being done. If you watch their video, the person who is demoing the software specifically says the bars are created using PNF bars also known as a reversal chart which has been in MD for a long time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not understand the criticism of Zen-Fire + NinjaTrader, to process the tape.

I have programmed my own tools to analyze the tape (one full session) and found that match with CME (for mini-sp)

I use NinjaTrader and Zen-Fire.

I searched the forum but have not found any evidence to show that the flow of Zen-Fire is wrong, or NinjaTrader can not process it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I do not understand the criticism of Zen-Fire + NinjaTrader, to process the tape.

I have programmed my own tools to analyze the tape (one full session) and found that match with CME (for mini-sp)

I use NinjaTrader and Zen-Fire.

I searched the forum but have not found any evidence to show that the flow of Zen-Fire is wrong, or NinjaTrader can not process it.

I have MANY that were using Ninjatrader with Zenfire feed to do their bid/ask differential work for Cumulative Delta plots and there was frequent data drops day after day (since the CME data output changes in October of 2009).

 

To research the problems that had started to appear for ALL Ninjatrader/Zenfire users running bid/ask data, I compared the end of day data runs to a very robust uncoalesced server side accessed feed. The NT/Zenfire data runs for BID/ASK data comparisons did not at all match up with the CME feed runs from a very high end application.

 

You will need access to direct uncoalesced FCM server side feed or pay high bucks for very robust low latency feeds to make a proper comparison. It was pretty bad actually, everyone that I know who was using NT/Zenfire for doing bid/ask work all had their charting go to crap after the CME data changes......I wished that was not the case!

 

I was also a user of the NT/Zenfire feed for back up bid/ask data work, but I myself no longer use this set up.....not until I see new proof that NT/Zenfire have made the necessary changes to whatever is causing the problems (and that will take some extensive work to change their current application limitations). I really like the Ninjatrader platform and I still use the platform for basic order entry/management ops, but I do not at all use it for Cumulative Delta work anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading this much informative thread from start to end there one confusion still lies, how OFA Change the bar? is it pnf as someone said above or is it using variation of CD Algo? Most of guys must have used it by now, how was the real time experience?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OFA has a proprietary calculation its not 6 tick reversal, but 6 ticks work pretty well so does 6 range. Take the demo, they are pretty nice guys. I just refuse to pay $2500 for their education class to use their software to learn what I learning for alot less from IOAMT. Some of OFA's set ups are the same as IOAMT they wait for a high volume spike at low or high then when those traders are upside down they fade em'. You can get a few ideas from watching tradersforce on you tube also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks blowfish, and yes if there is a debate over bid-ask vs uptick-downtick then i will take a side of uptick-downtick, i dont believe bid-ask order directly affect the price structure, other time frame traders ( which are the most influencial one to change the shape of a profile ) trades on higher time frame & logically they will wait on bid rather than hitting the ask price aggressively, yes bid-ask has a value but mostly for quants who uses the imbalance in a flash. Whereas uptick-downtick itself is the product of price movement so is more reliable market induced information imho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OFA has a proprietary calculation its not 6 tick reversal, but 6 ticks work pretty well so does 6 range. Take the demo, they are pretty nice guys. I just refuse to pay $2500 for their education class to use their software to learn what I learning for alot less from IOAMT. Some of OFA's set ups are the same as IOAMT they wait for a high volume spike at low or high then when those traders are upside down they fade em'. You can get a few ideas from watching tradersforce on you tube also.

 

compulsory boot-camp with fee of 2500$ means they dont target there s/w for experience traders. Thanks for the reviews.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was also a user of the NT/Zenfire feed for back up bid/ask data work, but I myself no longer use this set up.

 

Hi FulcrumTrader:

Lately my TradeStation data delivery has been problematic and also the charts have been freezing. Please, what platform/data feeds are you using? I'm in the market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi FulcrumTrader:

Lately my TradeStation data delivery has been problematic and also the charts have been freezing. Please, what platform/data feeds are you using? I'm in the market.

 

I am familiar with Fulcrums posts let me see if I can help, in the meantime. Fulcrum uses, last time I read, DTN IQ NX core, with Investor RT. Most would be fine with IQ feed regular. You could try Market Delta, very similar, for free, for 30 days but doesn't store historical data. TradeStation is notorious for bottlenecking on high volume bursts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
they will wait on bid rather than hitting the ask price aggressively

 

Can you explain this further? Are you saying they will put a limit order on the bid and let the offer come to them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can you explain this further? Are you saying they will put a limit order on the bid and let the offer come to them?

 

Totally, thats what i mean, most of the time when we see market holding on support on low volume this thing happens, but it doesnt mean they always give limit orders below the actual price, volatility need to be consider as well, in high volatility environment OTT (other timeframe traders ) wont wait but rather hit the ask price, you see thats what i mean so many ifs & buts to the extent of curve fitting the vague theory. In market profile we say responsive buying by other time frame traders, they pounce on the opportunity when they think value is reasonable thats the tendency of smart auction player so why would OTT always hit the market price OR ask price ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
compulsory boot-camp with fee of 2500$ means they dont target there s/w for experience traders. Thanks for the reviews.

 

Indeed.

 

I really quite like what they are doing. If I could just buy the software for a grand I probably would. There pricing model is weird, 10 bucks a month per extra instrument? 500 (or whatever it is) if you want clusters shaded? Kinda crazy and firmly in the "lets make a living out of education and software". Another concerned is that just because there are no parameters exposed there clearly things that could/should be. It is a dark grey box that may well need tuning for different markets or conditions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could come up with only two possible reasons for this weird thing, they are paranoid of some one might crack it if they keep their s/w for demo without controlling who is downloading it. Second reason could be ..One guy who is using it told its pure vanilla s/w no indicators could be backtested in Ninja. If its true then its visual ease to the eye kind of utility and to make a best use of it you need to have some knowladge of how the order flow works and the secret they only posses and instead using that secret to make real money in market by actual trades they choose to sell it, pretty convincing. Nothing against/for any vendor, just expressing my views.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks blowfish, and yes if there is a debate over bid-ask vs uptick-downtick then i will take a side of uptick-downtick, i dont believe bid-ask order directly affect the price structure, other time frame traders ( which are the most influencial one to change the shape of a profile ) trades on higher time frame & logically they will wait on bid rather than hitting the ask price aggressively, yes bid-ask has a value but mostly for quants who uses the imbalance in a flash. Whereas uptick-downtick itself is the product of price movement so is more reliable market induced information imho.

 

The predominance of Commercials order flow is handled through algorithmic automated entry/exit systems with "market orders".....BID/ASK Differential is critical to track this very important order flow dynamic. With current technology and speed available for routing orders, the best method possible for Commercials to mask their activity in the market is through "market order" driven order flow. Sitting fat in the order book is the old game...."market order" driven activity through automation is the king right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi FulcrumTrader:

Lately my TradeStation data delivery has been problematic and also the charts have been freezing. Please, what platform/data feeds are you using? I'm in the market.

 

Investor RT Pro with regular DTN.IQ feed is what I recommend for tracking Cumulative Delta.

 

TradeVec and marketdelta.com are additional alternatives if used with DTN.IQ feed (a rock solid feed is a MUST to properly track the Cumulative Delta).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BTW, does anyone know if OFA is still trying to use Rithmic feed to track BID/ASK Differential?

 

 

Did OFA finally make the switch to a proper data feed for BID/ASK Differential work with DTN.IQ feed yet?

 

 

I believe it works with zen-fire still. You can run it through Ninja and then connect ninja to IQFeed but I suspect that would have performance implications.

 

This is one reason I use Market Delta so that I can use it with IQFeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I believe it works with zen-fire still. You can run it through Ninja and then connect ninja to IQFeed but I suspect that would have performance implications.

 

This is one reason I use Market Delta so that I can use it with IQFeed.

Right.....BID/ASK differential work with a broker supplied feed is not usable data (tainted results). DTN.IQ is the best option at this time to make sure you have proper BID/ASK data.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 31st March 2025.   Trump Confirms Tariffs on All Countries, Sending Stocks Lower.   The NASDAQ continues to trade lower due to the US confirming the latest tariffs will be on all countries. In addition to this, bearish volatility also is largely due to the higher inflation data from Friday. The NASDAQ declines to its lowest price since September 11th 2024. Core PCE Price Index - Inflation Increases Again! The PCE Price Index read 2.5% aligning with expert forecasts not triggering any alarm bells. However, the Core PCE Price Index rose from 0.3% to 0.4% MoM and from 2.7% to 2.8% YoY, signalling growing inflationary pressure. This increases the likelihood that the Federal Reserve will maintain elevated interest rates for an extended period. The NASDAQ fell 2.60% due to the higher inflation reading which is known to pressure the stock market due to pressure on consumer demand and a more hawkish Federal Reserve. Boston Fed President Susan Collins recently commented that tariffs could drive up inflation, though the long-term impact remains uncertain. She told journalists that a short-term spike is the most probable outcome but believes the current pause in monetary policy adjustments is appropriate given the prevailing uncertainties. Although, certain investment banks such as JP Morgan actually believe the Federal Reserve will be forced into cutting rates. This is due to expectations that the economy will struggle under the new trade policy. For example, JP Morgan expects the Federal Reserve to delay rate cuts but will quickly cut towards the end of 2025. Market Risk Appetite Takes a Hit! A big factor for the day is the drop in the risk appetite of investors. This can be seen from the VIX which is up almost 6%, Gold which is trading 1.30% higher and the Japanese Yen which is the day’s best performing currency. Most safe haven assets, bar the US Dollar, increase in value. It is also worth noting that all indices are decreasing in value during this morning's Asian session with the Nikkei225 and NASDAQ witnessing the strongest decline. Previously the stock market rose in value as investors heard rumours that tariffs would only be on certain countries. This bullish swing occurred between March 14th and 25th. Over the weekend, President Donald Trump indicated that the upcoming tariffs would apply to all countries, not just those with the largest trade imbalances with the US. NASDAQ - Technical Analysis In terms of technical analysis, the NASDAQ continues to obtain indications that sellers control the price action. The price opens on a bearish price gap measuring 0.30% and trades below all Moving Averages on all timeframes. The NASDAQ also trades below the VWAP and almost 100% of the most influential components (stocks) are declining in value.     The next significant support level is at $18,313, and the resistance level stands at $20,367.95. Key Takeaway Points: NASDAQ falls to its lowest since September 2024 as the US confirms tariffs on all countries, adding to inflation concerns. Core PCE inflation rises to 0.4% MoM and 2.8% YoY, increasing the likelihood of prolonged high interest rates. Investor risk appetite drops as VIX jumps 6%, gold gains 1.3%, and safe-haven assets outperform. NASDAQ shows strong bearish momentum, trading below key technical levels with support at $18,313 and resistance at $20,367.95. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • PM Philip Morris stock, top of range breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?PM
    • EXC Exelon stock, nice range breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?EXC
    • UTZ Utz Brands stock, watch for a bottom breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?UTZ
    • FL Foot Locker stock, nice breakdown follow through at https://stockconsultant.com/?FL
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.