Order Flow Analytics

[jbhansen 10]

I was wondering if anyone had any feedback on this software. I posted here because it appears related to MP and MD and this forum gets a lot of views.

http://www.orderflowanalytics.com/Home.aspx

 

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=OrderFlowAnalytics#g/u

 

It kind of reminds me of Market Delta, but seems a bit different. I had a hard time processing MD when I looked at, at least the footprint. Just too much going on.

 

Just curious if there is any feedback on OFA?

 

Good trading to all,

 

Dan

 

As a reply to the question in the original thread, and not to the deviations in the conversations following, I have experience with http://www.orderflowanalytics.com. I am new to this forum, but not new to trading, order flow, or OFA. In my experience, the way OFA teaches order flow is exceptional. It transformed the way I was trading from indicators and automated strategies, to a true understanding of a two sided auction process. I myself don’t utilize pure price patterns much, but do rely on chart structure, volume profile, and the tools of OFA. Those tools, I can guarantee, are dynamic and proprietary. There may be many strategies in trading based on order flow, but the applications of OFA are designed around a logic based strategy and translated into a visual interface. It’s that translation that cuts down significantly on the always required visual processing of trading. These strategies and the utilization of the applications can be taught. If someone doesn’t understand the value of that, then they won’t understand order flow anyway. Furthermore, there are additional tools available that address other aspects of trading that I know you cannot find anywhere else. No, OFA is not a Holy Grail of only selling highs/buying lows…nothing is. What OFA is, is the best and most efficient aid in the implementation of a logical trading strategy and method that you, as a responsible trader, find valuable. Then it adds a layer of trade management tools unseen anywhere else.

 

I don’t usually participate in these forums/discussions because I find little value in the opinions of participants of an industry that is statistically filled with the unsuccessful. My advice with any trading room, software, course, etc., would be for someone as a trader, to be responsible for themselves, inquire profusely, understand completely, and then decide if valuable or not. If someone can’t or won’t do that…then I guess spending a ton of time in forums is as good as anything else they could be doing.

 

….in my humble opinion.

[supergrover 10]

OFA is great if you know what you doing.

 

IMO Major disadvantage of OFA is that the platform is closed you cant change anything.

 

I sure like to have control at least on the Probe and Rotation bars to develop my own hedge

but you cant do that.,its like take someone else trading plan and using it which IMO is not good trading.

 

on the other hand they provide you with the top of the line tools to help you trade this market like the trade tracker , volume cluster etc...

 

SG

[justtrade01 10]

OFA is great if you know what you doing.

 

IMO Major disadvantage of OFA is that the platform is closed you cant change anything.

 

I sure like to have control at least on the Probe and Rotation bars to develop my own hedge but you cant do that.,its like take someone else trading plan and using it which IMO is not good trading.

 

on the other hand they provide you with the top of the line tools to help you trade this market like the trade tracker , volume cluster etc...

 

SG

 

If you really like their tools and find them really useful in profitable trading, but you think that you lack Control, then that kind of control could be gained by implementing these concepts on another Trading Platforms that gives you that kind of freedom, like Neoticker etc.

[deanz 10]

2 new members and their very first posts were to say how great OFA is. 1 joined the same day he posted, and the other joined the same day as the owner of OFA made his first post. Read into that what ever you choose.

[exiled 10]

Investor RT Pro with regular DTN.IQ feed is what I recommend for tracking Cumulative Delta.

 

TradeVec and marketdelta.com are additional alternatives if used with DTN.IQ feed (a rock solid feed is a MUST to properly track the Cumulative Delta).

 

Sierra Chart also has cummulative Delta charting capabilities. Anyone know if this is any good?

 

Sierra Chart - Help Details - Cumulative AskVolume and BidVolume Difference Bars (Cumulative Delta)

[justtrade01 10]

2 new members and their very first posts were to say how great OFA is. 1 joined the same day he posted, and the other joined the same day as the owner of OFA made his first post. Read into that what ever you choose.

 

Well, good observation deanz. I did not notice that earlier.

May be the suspicion is correct, may be it is not ! I have no way to judge if the posts made above were from genuine users or if they were posted by some one who is getting paid for writing such posts.

 

Please note that I am in no way saying that jbhansen and supergrover are not the genuine users and their feedback is not honest. I have no way to know this thing for sure, so I am neither on this side nor on that side. I am just appreciating the fact that what deanz has observed, "MIGHT" be true.

 

So if that is the case, then how could we get REAL FEEDBACK about such services as OFA and others ? Is there some better method to know the real feedback of authentic users, rather then reading the posts on forums, where fake posts could be very easily posted.

[supergrover 10]

2 new members and their very first posts were to say how great OFA is. 1 joined the same day he posted, and the other joined the same day as the owner of OFA made his first post. Read into that what ever you choose.

 

I am in no way related to OFA , i am just an OFA software user, i wrote my experienced with OFA , in fact i still use Market Delta in addition to OFA because of the their issues.

 

for me OFA works good , but still limited

we all (OFA Users) have to count on OFA to setup the right parameters in their software which is very bad because if tomorrow there is no OFA we dont have control on their software

and this is why i keep my Market Delta

[supergrover 10]

If you really like their tools and find them really useful in profitable trading, but you think that you lack Control, then that kind of control could be gained by implementing these concepts on another Trading Platforms that gives you that kind of freedom, like Neoticker etc.

 

Thanks , but i already use Market delta for my trading plan more control and i already bought OFA and i am used to Trade Tracker and their COT

 

If they will open their platform i will not need to pay $199 for Market delta

 

SG

[cunparis 10]

So if that is the case, then how could we get REAL FEEDBACK about such services as OFA and others ? Is there some better method to know the real feedback of authentic users, rather then reading the posts on forums, where fake posts could be very easily posted.

 

It's far more likely that DB mentioned this thread to his followers and a couple of them wanted to add their opinion, nothing wrong with that I would do the same if it were me.

 

I have a posting history here so that won't be an issue. I know a few traders who have taken the OFA training and used the software. They're not using it now. I'm not exactly sure why, I've asked in the past but the response wasn't clear and I guess it just didn't fit their style or work for them personally.

 

My own experience with the footprint is from Market Delta. IMHO the footprint is just a way of visualizing the time & sales data in a tabular form. Just like the DOM or Time & Sales, the footprint can be mesmerizing and even hypnotic. However if one has a plan and only uses the footprint when at support or resistance, then it can help confirm entries (just as the DOM or time & sales can). The thing to keep in mind is that even if one sees a pattern or "setup" all it takes is a few large traders to step up and start trading against you and the setup can fail. In the past I've wondered if I could make more trading failed footprint setups then the original setups themselves.

 

In my opinion, one of the value points of OFA is that it can automatically enter your order when such a favorable condition occurs. I don't know anyone who actually used this so I can't comment on it but the idea is very interesting. It also has automatic support & resistance levels.

 

I have used the footprint on and off for 2010 and the past 3-4 months have been without a footprint chart. So I don't think it's necessary.

 

If/when I use the footprint, I prefer Market Delta for a many reasons. One is I have much more control over the footprint to change the bar type, the display, add indicators/statistics, etc. Second I trade multiple markets so I can have several footprints - I believe OFA is limited to a single market. Third I prefer to use IQFeed (which I understand OFA can do but it's through Ninjatrader so that won't work for me). Fourth is I like to annotate my chart. Fifth I like to have it integrated with my other charts. Sixth I like to have it on historical data so that I can study the past.

 

My personal opinion is I believe DB is a good trader and has developed some really cutting edge software. I just don't think it's necessary for me. For someone starting out, I think it could be very useful. There is a cost involved but I have spent way more than that learning it on my own. If I had found OFA earlier I would have been much better off with their training & software. This is the key point - if you're learning all this it's best to learn from a professional. Learning on your own is difficult, costly, & time-consuming.

 

In conclusion I realize that my post may not be very favorable to OFA and that is not really what I intended at first. But I reread it twice and there isn't much I can change. It's just a question of where each trader is in their journey. Those who are consistently profitable probably don't need it, and those who are new or learning or struggling could probably benefit. Everyone has to do their own research and find what works for them. Unfortunately there are a lot of scams out there, but I can say that DB & OFA are NOT one of them. They deliver everything they claim.

[justtrade01 10]

It's far more likely that DB mentioned this thread to his followers and a couple of them wanted to add their opinion, nothing wrong with that I would do the same if it were me.

 

I have a posting history here so that won't be an issue. I know a few traders who have taken the OFA training and used the software. They're not using it now. I'm not exactly sure why, I've asked in the past but the response wasn't clear and I guess it just didn't fit their style or work for them personally.

 

My own experience with the footprint is from Market Delta. IMHO the footprint is just a way of visualizing the time & sales data in a tabular form. Just like the DOM or Time & Sales, the footprint can be mesmerizing and even hypnotic. However if one has a plan and only uses the footprint when at support or resistance, then it can help confirm entries (just as the DOM or time & sales can). The thing to keep in mind is that even if one sees a pattern or "setup" all it takes is a few large traders to step up and start trading against you and the setup can fail. In the past I've wondered if I could make more trading failed footprint setups then the original setups themselves.

 

In my opinion, one of the value points of OFA is that it can automatically enter your order when such a favorable condition occurs. I don't know anyone who actually used this so I can't comment on it but the idea is very interesting. It also has automatic support & resistance levels.

 

I have used the footprint on and off for 2010 and the past 3-4 months have been without a footprint chart. So I don't think it's necessary.

 

If/when I use the footprint, I prefer Market Delta for a many reasons. One is I have much more control over the footprint to change the bar type, the display, add indicators/statistics, etc. Second I trade multiple markets so I can have several footprints - I believe OFA is limited to a single market. Third I prefer to use IQFeed (which I understand OFA can do but it's through Ninjatrader so that won't work for me). Fourth is I like to annotate my chart. Fifth I like to have it integrated with my other charts. Sixth I like to have it on historical data so that I can study the past.

 

My personal opinion is I believe DB is a good trader and has developed some really cutting edge software. I just don't think it's necessary for me. For someone starting out, I think it could be very useful. There is a cost involved but I have spent way more than that learning it on my own. If I had found OFA earlier I would have been much better off with their training & software. This is the key point - if you're learning all this it's best to learn from a professional. Learning on your own is difficult, costly, & time-consuming.

 

In conclusion I realize that my post may not be very favorable to OFA and that is not really what I intended at first. But I reread it twice and there isn't much I can change. It's just a question of where each trader is in their journey. Those who are consistently profitable probably don't need it, and those who are new or learning or struggling could probably benefit. Everyone has to do their own research and find what works for them. Unfortunately there are a lot of scams out there, but I can say that DB & OFA are NOT one of them. They deliver everything they claim.

 

cunparis, that was an Excellent Feedback. Thanks a lot.

[FulcrumTrader 10]

Sierra Chart also has cumulative Delta charting capabilities. Anyone know if this is any good?

 

Sierra Chart - Help Details - Cumulative AskVolume and BidVolume Difference Bars (Cumulative Delta)

SC seems to be moving in the right direction and more knowledgeable CD users are working with that platform which is great (many SC CD tools users at bigmiketrading).

 

Also to note, I have been helping Multicharts with their initial venture into CD tools and what I tested was working pretty good. They have not yet released a beta version of their CD tools to the public but that could happen in the months ahead....so far so good.

[BlowFish 10]

I am Trialing Sierra now as a potential candidate to hold me over until MC deliver there cumulative delta offering. There are some quite sophisticated tools that seem pretty darn solid so far. The Cumulative delta just works (what more can you ask). Not only does it have delta it has a footprint style chart too.

 

I'm pretty impressed all in all. I have also have had a look at how to program your own studies (albeit briefly) initial impressions are that it is fairly flexible and not too onerous to learn. My biggest criticism so far is the UI ....sure I am not too familiar with the layout but some things are just a bit clunky.

 

It also allow you to 'drive' one chart with a study off another. I am starting to get a couple of creative ideas there though am not sure if they are feasible (as an example use cumulative delta to drive P&F and end up with something like OFA)

[donam 10]

I agree fully that IQfeed provides better data for analysis and we absolutely recommend it & offer the connection, however while ZenFire may not isolate the trades at the bid or ask precisely the same, the volume is accounted for within 0.1% across the board. We see situations where IQ parses 7500 contracts slightly differently than ZenFire does... Like 4800/2700 (ZenFire) instead of 5200/2300 (IQ). This has no effect on our algorithms because we have to relate that total volume traded as 7500. Even if somehow the volume is off by 12 contracts... Does this really effect a market that trades 3M+/day? Both would be buyers and sellers - there are not magically only 5200 sellers even though 7500 (or 7512) traded. Even the v3.0 Trade Tracking algos we use for fill/kill have to account for market depth, total volume, volatility, rate of trade, and weighting volume according to inventory levels. Of course in the end the trick is having some strategy as to what you want to do with it - clearly your goal is more automation and pattern recognition - mine is not. Please do not misunderstand. I get the foundation of your argument. There is a considerable difference in using clearing feeds and even in the ZenFire/Rithmic API as opposed to drawing data from Ninja. We try to offer users options. Not all are equal for bid/ask. But because most of our clients execute via Zen or Rithmic, the option is there to use these feeds free either directly from the API or via Ninja. I have no problem paying the extra money for IQ.

 

Regarding pattern recognition, It sounds to me like your algo is too broad based for what you are trying to accomplish. But of course I really do not know what you are doing. I have people tell me all the time that they do exactly what we do... Frankly I find that hard to believe. People tend to focus on the scalping algo because they see it on the net and want a magic indicator. It's not one. It is an add-on for a complex strategy. It has a specific purpose and is not some automated robot. Thus I would say less than 50% of my students even buy it - and those that do without any training are simply flying blind and hoping for magic. I do not have any desire to sell smoke and mirrors. If you buy it, learn how to use it. If you try to copy it, learn how to use it.

 

You seem to have an excellent grasp of your own use of Order Flow, and therefore I would suggest you continue down your own path. Our tools are not the only solution out there and I am the first to admit that - I just find it funny that traders are so anxious to try to copy what we do and in the same post claim we are no different than the other vendors selling volume at price charting. As stated previously, if you have your own time, skills, understanding, imagination and are willing to put in the work there is no reason you can't skip the process of learning from someone else. I would only ask that you not simply assume that you know everything. I am very aware that there is a lot more that I don't know - than what I can claim to understand.

 

DB

 

 

 

I was impressed after reviewing the videos of your software and trading system. I booked for a demonstration of the system (during market hours) with George. We went through the demonstration for a few days. He is a very nice Guy but unfortunately we could not agree on what he should be really covering in the demonstration. He was always going through the different descriptions of what each software does. I explained in so many ways that these things have been very well covered in your videos in You Tube and that what I felt he needs to be doing is to take trading decisions using the software and the logic behind your trading system (either taking trades or managing trades) but he felt that was not what he should be doing.We had many debates about this but failed to agree. I suggested the alternative of paying 250 dollars to observe in your room and watch you use your system for trade decisions but he refused and said that your clients will not like this He said you used to do this (room trial) but stopped it about one year ago. He suggested that the best thing is for me to pay 2500 dollars and go through class and then I will have the opportunity to come into the trading room and see if it is working. Well I have been unable to understand his logic. I thought you will prefer clients to see that this system works - by using it to assist trading decisions in live market. This is not really an issue for the forum but I did not have any other way of getting in touch with you. I am still very keen to observe the software demonstrated in live markets either in Georges room or in your room. I am ready to pay 250 dollars for one month trial in your room just to observe that it has positive impact on market decisions. If I can see that it has positive impact in assisting trading decisions I will very much like to purchase. I will still repeat that George is very nice and friendly and is very passionate about this trading system. Looking forward to hearing from you

[dbvaello 10]

I was impressed after reviewing the videos of your software and trading system. I booked for a demonstration of the system (during market hours) with George. We went through the demonstration for a few days. He is a very nice Guy but unfortunately we could not agree on what he should be really covering in the demonstration...

 

I'm sorry that you do not feel your time was well spent with George. He certainly does his best to give clients 110% at all times. In fact, we pride ourselves on attention to detail and 1-on-1 service in an industry filled with "buy now" links and automated email blasts. While I don't think we need to continue the discussion on a public forum, I would be more than happy to speak with you directly. Please contact me through the website and I will personally reply to schedule time to discuss. I understand where you are coming from - we don't offer the type of environment most people are used to with monthly trading room subscriptions. It creates a zoo - a wreck of non-commitment which generally means that every day revolves around the lowest common denominator participants. I am not working in the public school system and my clients do not accept that type of mediocrity. I realize that this attitude drives many potential clients away. Amazingly it draws a much higher quality of student in the long run - which in turn creates a better environment for everyone involved. There are several hundred low monthly fee trading rooms to choose from. You can see after 5 minutes that the typical business model is to churn and burn new customers with the promise of riches. I refuse to be part of that model. Again, please contact me directly and I will be happy to discuss logic with you or any other component you wish. -DB

[TJTrade 10]

I am in no way related to OFA , i am just an OFA software user, i wrote my experienced with OFA , in fact i still use Market Delta in addition to OFA because of the their issues.

 

for me OFA works good , but still limited

we all (OFA Users) have to count on OFA to setup the right parameters in their software which is very bad because if tomorrow there is no OFA we dont have control on their software

and this is why i keep my Market Delta

 

Hi Supergrover,

 

I am considering OFA and share similar concern on programmed COT. Can one just trade with volume cluster chart without depending on COT? Market condition is dynamic and changing all the time and COT may require tweaking over time.

 

By the way, in the fast moving ES can one achieve high rate of success in ES trading using OFA tools?

[exiled 10]

I was impressed after reviewing the videos of your software and trading system. I booked for a demonstration of the system (during market hours) with George. We went through the demonstration for a few days. He is a very nice Guy but unfortunately we could not agree on what he should be really covering in the demonstration. He was always going through the different descriptions of what each software does. I explained in so many ways that these things have been very well covered in your videos in You Tube and that what I felt he needs to be doing is to take trading decisions using the software and the logic behind your trading system (either taking trades or managing trades) but he felt that was not what he should be doing.We had many debates about this but failed to agree. I suggested the alternative of paying 250 dollars to observe in your room and watch you use your system for trade decisions but he refused and said that your clients will not like this He said you used to do this (room trial) but stopped it about one year ago. He suggested that the best thing is for me to pay 2500 dollars and go through class and then I will have the opportunity to come into the trading room and see if it is working. Well I have been unable to understand his logic. I thought you will prefer clients to see that this system works - by using it to assist trading decisions in live market. This is not really an issue for the forum but I did not have any other way of getting in touch with you. I am still very keen to observe the software demonstrated in live markets either in Georges room or in your room. I am ready to pay 250 dollars for one month trial in your room just to observe that it has positive impact on market decisions. If I can see that it has positive impact in assisting trading decisions I will very much like to purchase. I will still repeat that George is very nice and friendly and is very passionate about this trading system. Looking forward to hearing from you

 

Hi donam,

 

Did you ever sort out your issues with OFA? Did you get to see a live market demo or just more mumbo jumbo?

[ROSCOE 10]

This thread died about 9 months ago. As I read, I got interested in the OFA product and took a look at several videos from OFA.

 

Is there anyone around who has or is actually using OAF? I sure would like to hear from some real users before I go any farther.

 

I enjoyed everyone's contribution.

 

Thanks.

[jparrie 10]

Another few months and I don't get why this thread has just dried up? Has nobody on this forum actually bought any of the OFA products?

 

I note that OFA themselves haven't added any new videos for a while on YouTube or their own site, just wondering how the company is ticking along if you're reading this Mr. Vaello. It looks like a great product.

[user33 10]

Another few months and I don't get why this thread has just dried up? Has nobody on this forum actually bought any of the OFA products?

 

I note that OFA themselves haven't added any new videos for a while on YouTube or their own site, just wondering how the company is ticking along if you're reading this Mr. Vaello. It looks like a great product.

 

If you read the last page, you should had seen that it cost $2500 just to get in the chat room, then another $2500 for the basic software, and another $2500 for the full software as they used in the chat room, you will be out $7500 just to satisfy your curiosity about their system/software, how many rich fools out there can afford that? Their model is to suck in the rich fools, the elder, high pay professionals (doctors and lawyers are the easiest suckers because they can afford it and they are greedy). This is why this thread had practically been abandoned.

[jparrie 10]

If you read the last page, you should had seen that it cost $2500 just to get in the chat room, then another $2500 for the basic software, and another $2500 for the full software as they used in the chat room, you will be out $7500 just to satisfy your curiosity about their system/software, how many rich fools out there can afford that? Their model is to suck in the rich fools, the elder, high pay professionals (doctors and lawyers are the easiest suckers because they can afford it and they are greedy). This is why this thread had practically been abandoned.

 

This is the sort of useless hearsay that should be deleted from these forums. Nowhere does it say that the product costs that much. If you had bothered to look at their website you would have seen how much the product costs.

 

I'm not interested in why you don't like the product, for all I know you are a competitor just bagging them out, I don't know. Fortunately there is a rather more mature discussion going on in another forum about OFA.

[TL Staff 10]

This is the sort of useless hearsay that should be deleted from these forums. Nowhere does it say that the product costs that much. If you had bothered to look at their website you would have seen how much the product costs.

 

I'm not interested in why you don't like the product, for all I know you are a competitor just bagging them out, I don't know. Fortunately there is a rather more mature discussion going on in another forum about OFA.

 

Definitely agree in that we should try to discuss products properly.

 

Which forum is there a mature discussion about ofa

[DbPhoenix 42]

This is the sort of useless hearsay that should be deleted from these forums. Nowhere does it say that the product costs that much. If you had bothered to look at their website you would have seen how much the product costs.

 

I'm not interested in why you don't like the product, for all I know you are a competitor just bagging them out, I don't know. Fortunately there is a rather more mature discussion going on in another forum about OFA.

 

It may have cost that much two years ago, which is when the thread dried up. Now it costs $1500 for the "core" software, $1500 for the upgrade, $500-2500 for other upgrades, $250 and up for "classes" and $99/mo for the chat room (for clients only). That seems like a lot of money for something that seemingly no one is willing to trade real time.

 

Since you're not interested in comments from anyone who doesn't like the product, why not just go ahead and buy it, then let us know the results of your experience? You may find that the thread dried up for good reason.

 

Picks and shovels.

[jparrie 10]

I'm not interested in his particular comments because he clearly hasn't even bothered to do the most basic research, but instead just made a wholly inaccurate remarks relating to cost. So in that regard he clearly knows nothing about the product and hence his opinions are worthless.

 

Of course I am interested in anyone with actual experience of the product, if anyone has any. Just don't post inaccurate, pointless comments that add nothing to the conversation.

[bruce_g 10]

I have the core and the trade tracking(exit management) software. I am willing to sell my license at a big discount. It will definitely give you an edge and that's all you need in this business. The trade tracker(exit management) is cutting edge stuff. I am selling because I am more focused on swing trading and overnight trades. Private message me if interested.

[slick60 10]

Maybe it is time to re-open this thread with new information about Order Flow Analytics.

They, through Ninja Trader had a good offering of their software last week until actually today. Complete framework and plug-ins for $1,675.00.

This is the Ninja link good till today Order Flow Analytics -- A NinjaTrader ?Trade Like A Pro? Special Event

I have been using the FREE version for several months now and purchased the paid version this week. For me it probably will be the end of the line for searching for the "Holy Grail" of trading. Coupling it with what I do is very very interesting.

I am sorry to say that I cannot comment on how successful I have been with the paid version as I have not had time to use it.

I would like to steer you to OFA site and recommend you download the FREE version and get involved OFA/FREE

DB is a man of integrity and not a hustler. But then, we all have our own opinions.

Order flow to me was confusing at best and nobody could or would assist me to what I should be looking for. OFA has clarified this. I kid you not - go get the FREE version and use it. You will not regret it.

I will post a couple snaps of how I couple OFA with my traditional indicator set-ups

This 6E below is one random shot using the FREE version

2013-10-10_2013 - slick60's library

Here is a snap of CL showing a couple trade entries. I use several indicators for entry signals

2013-10-12_1309 - slick60's library

I am sorry I have been busy building a deck/patio for the last few weeks and did not have time to post before now.

If you are interested in "order flow" please go watch a couple videos on the sites I noted and you may catch yourself a good deal on the software. Outside of that load the FREE version. Hope this may help some traders. It is all I try to do like a dummy. Help.

 

slick60

PS - in all my years of trading this is only the 2nd time that I have purchased software for trading.