Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Uli Schmuli

Russell 2000 E-Mini Slippage

Recommended Posts

I get 2 ticks slippage on the TF about 90% of the time during regular hours trading. I'm using Tradestation. Is this an issue with the broker, the exchange or the platform? Is it just the nature of the thinner market? Is anybody else experiencing this?

 

Thanks,

 

Uli

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I assume you're talking about market orders. I use limit orders to enter, and usually market orders to exit, and yes, with the market orders, I definitely get screwed on the fill, but for me, it's better to lose a few ticks with a market order than to miss a fill on a limit order, have to cancel and re-enter a order, potentially losing additional ticks, based on the speed of price movement.

 

I trade TF almost exclusively and would be interested in your trading methods.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 ticks often is horrible. i trade the tf often, and sometimes use stop entries on breakouts and usually don't experience slippage. occasionally i see 1 tick slippage, and only if at a big level. with IB i used to experience 2 ticks at big levels. with infinity its not really a problem.

 

you should set up your platform to use "stop limits" rather than just "stops", these rest on the exchange servers not on the brokers servers, the result is better fills, just be sure to allow for an offset for the limit portion that will still get you filled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi. I work for ICE and am responsible for the Russell Index futures products. I can tell you that we have multiple market makers in place who consistently quote a 1 tick market for the TF (mini Russell 2000). We very seldom get complaints about slippage and as discussed by others in this thread, limit orders are typicaly used by msot active traders. Also, note that the ICE platform has the fastest execution speed in the futures industry. That coupled with the volatility in the TF and the fact that the TF often leads the other indexes makes it even more important to be prudent with order entry management.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  ted said:
Hi. I work for ICE and am responsible for the Russell Index futures products. I can tell you that we have multiple market makers in place who consistently quote a 1 tick market for the TF (mini Russell 2000). We very seldom get complaints about slippage and as discussed by others in this thread, limit orders are typicaly used by msot active traders. Also, note that the ICE platform has the fastest execution speed in the futures industry. That coupled with the volatility in the TF and the fact that the TF often leads the other indexes makes it even more important to be prudent with order entry management.

 

Ted (or anyone else

 

I know you job is at ICE but I wonder if stop limits are better employed than straight stops in NQ or ES as well?

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes, always best to be on exchange servers rather than broker (or even local on your machine) server. in super liquid markets like es it would be rare that it would make a difference, but it does in certain situations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to trade the russell 2K through tradestation (ER2) and after the switch to ICE (TF) the slippage became huge (1-3 ticks) on stop market orders to enter a trade.

 

I switched to Ninjatrader/Zenfire and haven't had any slippage problems since then. Actually, sometimes I have positive slippage (in my favor).

 

Tradestation just dropped the ball on this emini.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have more information since my original post about TF slippage. I was using OCO bracket orders in Tradestation. If you place an order like this, the exit orders are held on Tradestation servers until the order is triggered. Then it is sent to market. That is why I was getting such a big slippage. Even if you enter and OCO bracket order and then cancel one side of the order, leaving only the stop portion - the order still remains on TS servers until triggered.

 

Since finding this out, I now use stop orders, not bracket OCO orders if there is a good chance of being stopped out. Since doing this, I have not had even 1 tick of slippage over the last month or so.

 

I know this to be true first-hand, so I don't understand why some people are so down on TS as a broker unless maybe they don't understand this issue entirely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  elpepelucho said:

I switched to Ninjatrader/Zenfire and haven't had any slippage problems since then.

.

 

NinjaTrader or ZenFire have nothing to do with slippage. Who is your broker?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  Uli Schmuli said:
I have more information since my original post about TF slippage. I was using OCO bracket orders in Tradestation. If you place an order like this, the exit orders are held on Tradestation servers until the order is triggered. Then it is sent to market. That is why I was getting such a big slippage. Even if you enter and OCO bracket order and then cancel one side of the order, leaving only the stop portion - the order still remains on TS servers until triggered.

 

Since finding this out, I now use stop orders, not bracket OCO orders if there is a good chance of being stopped out. Since doing this, I have not had even 1 tick of slippage over the last month or so.

 

I know this to be true first-hand, so I don't understand why some people are so down on TS as a broker unless maybe they don't understand this issue entirely.

TS has decrepid order routing infrastucture and speeds......No thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  elpepelucho said:
mirus futures, why so you say zenfire has nothing to do with slippage ?

 

Because zen-fire is a datafeed and not a broker. If you don't understand the difference between the two, you really should not be trading until you do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  Uli Schmuli said:
I have more information since my original post about TF slippage. I was using OCO bracket orders in Tradestation. If you place an order like this, the exit orders are held on Tradestation servers until the order is triggered. Then it is sent to market. That is why I was getting such a big slippage. Even if you enter and OCO bracket order and then cancel one side of the order, leaving only the stop portion - the order still remains on TS servers until triggered.

 

Since finding this out, I now use stop orders, not bracket OCO orders if there is a good chance of being stopped out. Since doing this, I have not had even 1 tick of slippage over the last month or so.

 

I know this to be true first-hand, so I don't understand why some people are so down on TS as a broker unless maybe they don't understand this issue entirely.

 

Most 'complex' orders (anything beyon market,stop,limit) will be synthesised at the broker. If the instrument is thin then this can easily result in slippage. Moral of the story always know how your order is submitted and where it is held :)

 

How are you finding the Russel apart from this? Is it trading like it did before it moved to ICE?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  BlowFish said:
Most 'complex' orders (anything beyon market,stop,limit) will be synthesised at the broker. If the instrument is thin then this can easily result in slippage. Moral of the story always know how your order is submitted and where it is held :)

 

How are you finding the Russel apart from this? Is it trading like it did before it moved to ICE?

 

I think it is absolutely, 100% as liquid and effective as it was when it was before the ICE move. As I said, I've experienced no slippage, as long as orders are routed to the exchange immediately and not sitting on TS servers. I can't complain about no slippage, that's for sure. But then I'm only executing 2 contracts, so I can't really say about performance for you 10-lot big-league guys & gals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  Uli Schmuli said:
I think it is absolutely, 100% as liquid and effective as it was when it was before the ICE move. As I said, I've experienced no slippage, as long as orders are routed to the exchange immediately and not sitting on TS servers. I can't complain about no slippage, that's for sure. But then I'm only executing 2 contracts, so I can't really say about performance for you 10-lot big-league guys & gals.

 

there is slippage. look how wide the buy and ask spread? also, if you are using filtered data, expect lots of slippage vs unfiltered data.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EMG, I'm just reporting actual data from my trading. I enter all trades on limit orders, and therefore can only potentially experience slippage on stops. The point is that slippage (if any) is an acceptable amount. No complaints.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  BlowFish said:
Most 'complex' orders (anything beyon market,stop,limit) will be synthesised at the broker. If the instrument is thin then this can easily result in slippage. Moral of the story always know how your order is submitted and where it is held :)

 

How are you finding the Russel apart from this? Is it trading like it did before it moved to ICE?

 

I have to disagree. Volume completely dropped off after the ICE move. To be fair, it's hard to tell if the volume dropped because of the liquidity crunch or the move to ICE, but it's not the beast it once was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  Uli Schmuli said:
EMG, I'm just reporting actual data from my trading. I enter all trades on limit orders, and therefore can only potentially experience slippage on stops. The point is that slippage (if any) is an acceptable amount. No complaints.

 

what platform are u using?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 8th April 2025.   Markets Rebound Cautiously as US-China Tariff Tensions Deepen     Global markets staged a tentative recovery on Tuesday following a wave of volatility sparked by escalating trade tensions between the United States and China. The Asia-Pacific region showed signs of stability after a chaotic start to the week—though some pockets remained under pressure. Taiwan’s Taiex dropped 4.4%, dragged lower by losses in tech heavyweight TSMC. The world’s largest chipmaker fell another 4% on Tuesday and has now slumped 13.5% since April 2, when US President Donald Trump first unveiled what he called ‘Liberation Day’ tariffs.   However, broader sentiment across the region turned more positive, with several markets rebounding sharply after Monday’s dramatic sell-offs. Japan’s Nikkei 225 surged over 6% in early trading, rebounding from an 18-month low. South Korea’s Kospi rose marginally, and Australia’s ASX 200 gained 1.9%, driven by strength in mining stocks. Hong Kong’s Hang Seng rose 1.6%, though still far from recovering from Monday’s 13.2% crash—its worst day since the 1997 Asian financial crisis. China’s Shanghai Composite added 0.9%.   In Europe, DAX and FTSE 100 are up more than 1% in opening trade. EU Commission President von der Leyen repeated yesterday that the EU had offered reciprocal zero tariffs on manufactured goods previously and continues to stand by that offer. Others are also trying again to talk to Trump to get some sort of agreement that limits the impact.   Much of the rally appeared to be driven by dip-buying, as well as hopes that the intensifying trade war could still be defused through negotiations.   China Strikes Back: ‘We Will Fight to the End’   Tensions reached a boiling point after Trump threatened to impose an additional 50% tariff on all Chinese imports unless Beijing rolled back its retaliatory measures by April 8. ‘If China does not withdraw its 34% increase above their already long-term trading abuses by tomorrow... the United States will impose additional tariffs on China of 50%,’ Trump declared on social media.   If implemented, the new tariffs would bring total US duties on Chinese goods to a staggering 124%, factoring in the existing 20%, the 34% recently announced, and the proposed 50%.   In response, China’s Ministry of Commerce issued a stern warning, stating: ‘The US threat to escalate tariffs is a mistake on top of a mistake... If the US insists on its own way, China will fight to the end.’ The ministry also called for equal and respectful dialogue, though signs of compromise on either side remain scarce.   Beijing acted quickly to contain a market fallout. State funds intervened to support equities, and the People’s Bank of China set the yuan fixing at its weakest level since September 2023 to boost export competitiveness. Additionally, five-year interest rate swaps in China fell to their lowest levels since 2020, indicating potential for further monetary easing.   Trump Talks Tough on EU Too   Trump’s hardline approach extended beyond China. Speaking at a press conference, he rejected the European Union’s offer to eliminate tariffs on cars and industrial goods, accusing the bloc of ‘being very bad to us.’ He insisted that Europe would need to source its energy from the US, claiming the US could ‘knock off $350 billion in one week.’   The EU, meanwhile, backed away from a proposed 50% retaliatory tariff on American whiskey, opting instead for 25% duties on selected US goods in response to Trump’s steel and aluminium tariffs.     Volatile Wall Street Adds to the Drama   Wall Street experienced wild swings on Monday as investors processed the rapidly evolving trade conflict. The S&P 500 briefly fell 4.7% before rebounding 3.4%, nearly erasing its losses in what could have been its biggest one-day jump in years—if it had held. The Dow Jones Industrial Average sank by as much as 1,700 points early in the day but later climbed nearly 900 points before closing 349 points lower, down 0.9%. The Nasdaq ended up 0.1%.   The brief rally was fueled by a false rumour that Trump was considering a 90-day pause on tariffs—rumours that the White House quickly labelled ‘fake news.’ The market's sharp reaction underscored how desperate investors are for any sign that tensions might ease.   Oil Markets in Focus: Goldman Sachs Revises Forecasts   Crude prices also reflected the uncertainty, with US crude briefly dipping below $60 per barrel for the first time since 2021. As of early Tuesday, Brent crude was trading at $64.72, while WTI hovered around $61.26.   Goldman Sachs, in a note dated April 7, lowered its average price forecasts for Brent and WTI through 2025 and 2026, citing mounting recession risks and the potential for higher-than-expected supply from OPEC+.       Under a base-case scenario where the US avoids a recession and tariffs are reduced significantly before the April 9 implementation date, Goldman sees Brent at $62 per barrel and WTI at $58 by December 2025. These figures fall further to $55 and $51, respectively, by the end of 2026. This outlook also assumes moderate output increases from eight OPEC+ countries, with incremental boosts of 130,000–140,000 barrels per day in June and July.   However, should the US slip into a typical recession and OPEC production aligns with the bank’s baseline assumptions, Brent could retreat to $58 by the end of this year and to $50 by December 2026.   In a more bearish scenario involving a global GDP slowdown and no change to OPEC+ output levels, Brent prices might fall to $54 by year-end and $45 by late 2026. The most extreme projection—based on a simultaneous economic downturn and a full reversal of OPEC+ production cuts—would see Brent plunge to below $40 per barrel by the end of 2026.   Goldman noted that oil prices could outperform forecasts significantly if there was a dramatic shift in tariff policy and a surprise in global demand recovery.   Cautious Optimism, But Warnings Persist   With both Washington and Beijing showing no signs of backing down, markets are likely to remain volatile in the days ahead. Investors now turn their attention to upcoming trade meetings and policy decisions, hoping for clarity in what has become one of the most unpredictable trading environments in recent years.   Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Andria Pichidi HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • CVNA Carvana stock watch, rebound to 166.56 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
    • CVNA Carvana stock watch, rebound to 166.56 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
    • CVNA Carvana stock watch, rebound to 166.56 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
    • CVNA Carvana stock watch, rebound to 166.56 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.