Any Good Contracts to Trade After Hours?

[TraderFoo 10]

Are there any good contracts to trade after hours?

 

I've generally haven't done well on the mini s&p and dow during that time, so I stay away.

[Tams 20]

HSI is on right now.

 

 

That's the Hong Kong Heng Sang Index.

Guaranteed to get your money's worth in excitement.

[diablo272 10]

O, how I wish we had a lunch break on exchanges in the US like they do in Asia...Tams, since you seem to be familiar with the HSI, can you tell me what the tick size is for the mini futures contract? On the HK exchange site it lists $10HKD/index point, but that seems pretty small, since that is only ~$1.30USD according to Google.

[MidKnight 12]

10 HKD is right for the mini. I'm not sure if your CFTC changed the restrictions on this, but they used to not allow US folks to trade the mini. No idea why. You best check. Yes that is small per point, but it is not overly unusual for HSI to put in 500+ pt ranges. Lately over 300pts is pretty much a guarantee every day. So even though the mini is small on a per point basis, when you see the market movement intraday, you will see that even this small contract is sufficient for decent daily gains. The 'big' HSI is 5 times the size of the mini, so you could trade that if you want more grunt. Better spreads and better volume on the bigs. Both are highly tradable.

 

With kind regards,

MK

[Tams 20]

the restriction has been removed

[diablo272 10]

Thanks MK and Tams, I will look into it further.

[Bam-Bam 10]

It depends on what you mean by "after hours."

 

From 8pm to 10pm Eastern Time, Euro (6E) and Yen (6J) currency futures move very nicely for my strategies. I probably high a higher winning percentage during this period than during regular trading hours. After 11:30pm Eastern Time (PM session for Tokyo), these begin moving again, but the first session is always better for me.

 

The KOPSI 200 (K200) moves very nicely for me, but my discipline (and therefore results) is not as reliable as on the currency futures.

 

If after hours to you means early morning, I would recommend DJ Euro Stoxx (FESX) or the Eurobund (FGBL) are good to trade. I haven't tried the Shatz or the Eurobobl. They may be good as well.

 

Good trading,

 

Bam-Bam

[Kiwi 16]

Personally, trading AsiaPac hours, I probably trade your after hours.

 

Futures contracts worth considering are:

HSI and MHI (my bread and butter)

STW (taiwan on SGX)

Nikkie and minis (on both Osaka and SGX)

SPI (Aussie S&P)

KOSPI (especially the options, pretty noisy index)

EuroUSD and USDJPY

[Tams 20]

Friday's HSI

 

 

the indicator is here:

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f46/moving-trend-6563.html

[diablo272 10]

I finally got a hold of an HKFE feed, and wow, you guys aren't kidding about the HSI. I like it. Looking forward to watching it tonight.

Edited September 2, 2009 by diablo272

[Tams 20]

my notes:

 

1. HK exchange takes lunch breaks from HK time 12:30pm to 2:30pm

2. trading can slow down as early as 11:30am

3. afternoon sessions can be lethargic

4. the HK market is often affected by events in NA. i.e BIG gap opening is not a surprise.

5. HK does not have daylight saving time.

i.e. when North America goes back to standard time, the trading hours are ET 8:45pm to 11:30pm, and 1:30am to 3:15am

6. HK is frequently visited by typhoons. The exchange can close on short notice when the wind is too strong.

i.e. keep an eye on the weather forecast.

 

 

Enjoy !

Edited September 3, 2009 by Tams

[diablo272 10]

Thanks Tams, useful information. Do you know of any news calendars for the Asia/Pacific region, such as the Econoday ones found on many US sites (ex: http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/ecalendar/index.html)?

[Tams 20]

Thanks Tams, useful information. Do you know of any news calendars for the Asia/Pacific region, such as the Econoday ones found on many US sites (ex: http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/ecalendar/index.html)?

 

 

sorry I don't know of any.

[Tams 20]

BTW, HSI is a big contract... go easy on size.

 

;-)

[diablo272 10]

BTW, HSI is a big contract... go easy on size.

 

;-)

 

Yes, thanks for that tip. Just from looking at the small amount of back data that I have today, I've noticed I'll definitely have to adjust my initial stop at the very least, not sure by how much yet...Small tick size, but a lot of movement.

[Kiwi 16]

If hsi is too big then just use MHI.

 

1/5th size and arbed to be very close to hsi (1-2 tick miss/overs) with relatively little increase in slippage.

[diablo272 10]

I have the MHI open as well, thanks. I'm drawn to the HSI because it's more liquid, but it will take more time for me to work out the more subtle differences between the two.

[Tams 20]

I have the MHI open as well, thanks. I'm drawn to the HSI because it's more liquid, but it will take more time for me to work out the more subtle differences between the two.

 

 

I have never traded MHI.

HSI is razor thin as is... compared to ES. LOL, I don't want to go any thinner.

 

 

p.s.

the HK stock market opens at HK time 10am,

but the HSI starts trading at 9:45am.

 

This 15min pre-market is no man's land. Anything can happen. LOL

[Tams 20]

for the trading junkies...

 

there is no labor day long weekend in Hong Kong

the market is open for business !

 

Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing Limited

 

Trade On !

[MidKnight 12]

I finally got a hold of an HKFE feed, and wow, you guys aren't kidding about the HSI. I like it. Looking forward to watching it tonight.

 

May I ask who is supplying your data?

 

Thanks in advance,

MK

[MidKnight 12]

6. HK is frequently visited by typhoons. The exchange can close on short notice when the wind is too strong.

i.e. keep an eye on the weather forecast.

 

This is the recommended source for typhoon information as per HKFE.

 

Hong Kong Observatory

[MidKnight 12]

Regarding trading MHI...I've been trading it just fine for a couple months now. Sure, its thinner, has a wider spread, and trades less volume than HSI, but that hasn't made me unprofitable on the market. I trade a scale-in / out approach and I'm reluctant to start trading 10 HSI as a minimum maximum position. My only regret to trading MHI is the commissions are significantly higher compared to the amount you earn per tick. If you are scalping (ie less than 20pt profit per trade), that could have a significant impact and possibly even be a deal breaker with IBs standard unbundled comm rates.

 

Having said all that, for how I'm trading, MHI hasn't been a problem yet.

 

With kind regards,

MK

[diablo272 10]

May I ask who is supplying your data?

 

Thanks in advance,

MK

 

I'm getting my data through E-signal. If you're interested in their data but don't use their platform (I use Ninja), you have to call or use their live chat service to subscribe to their data feed, because apparently you can't do it on their website. For just the HKFE, the fee is $89+tax per month, but some US exchanges are quite a bit more expensive I think. The fee structure is something like, $85 base rate depending on whether you want stock or futures data, and then the exchange fees are added to that (the HKFE fee is only $4/mo, and I also subscribed to the OSE, which is only $2/mo). I like the data so far and the customer service I received has been great, but I've only had the feed for 2 days now and I haven't placed a live trade through it (and probably won't for some time yet), so I'm really in no place to judge. It was easy to set up, that's about all I can tell you for sure.

 

As for MHI vs HSI, I haven't been watching closely or looking at back data for MHI, but I have to say regarding HSI: wow. I wasn't able to watch live tonight since I had dinner plans, but wow is about all I can say once I got back tonight and looked at the charts. Part of me wishes that HSI was thicker, but then I don't think the swings would be so wild. I will also take time to look at both MHI and HSI more closely this weekend. Thanks both of you for sharing your experience and tips.

 

ALSO, I almost forgot to ask, looking at the chart for HSI tonight, was there some kind of news release that took place around 3:00-3:05PM Hong Kong time? Or is that kind of price action somewhat normal for this market? Coming from US markets such as ES, YM, or NQ, I'm only used to seeing price action like that during news events.

Edited September 4, 2009 by diablo272

[diablo272 10]

One important thing I forgot to mention regarding the E-signal data. I am having a problem where I can view front month data just fine, but I can't view past month contracts at all. Basically I only seem to have access to front month contracts and beyond, so my ability to backtest at this point is severely limited. I spoke with Ninja about this, and they logged into my account, couldn't get it to work either, and told me to ask E-signal about it. I just finished working with an E-signal rep trying to fix the problem, and in the end she told me that it must be a problem with Ninja. :doh: This is not so problematic for me right now since I'm in the trial period, and I've only had the feed for two days now, but without access to past month contracts, I don't think I would subscribe to this data feed. However, I'm hoping that I can get this problem fixed, and I can keep you updated if you'd like.

[Tams 20]

you can get HSI datafeed free from Interactive Brokers.