Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

flyingdutchmen

Ninja Question(s)

Recommended Posts

ninja newbie with some questions

 

thinking more

serious about api trading lately and just getting litle familiar with ninja/zenfire

 

at the moment i am not able to see daily bars in the chartingplatform,

at least no more then the currentbar and even that one didnt start

from actual market open, but somehow i manage to get 6 days

of hourly data in a chart

i dont realy need to see them but those

bars are needet for calcuation so i would like to know if i have acces to the

o/h/l/c data from those bars

 

maybe there are some limitations on the demo and/or zenfire's data?

 

 

can i program an execution skript that is able to use calcuations on daily o/h/l/c

bars from 5-6 bars ago or do i need an aditional datafeed for it ?

 

how long history of daily bars zenfire normally provides ?

 

my main interest are CME/CBOT commodities and interest rates futures,

what would be the best datafeed for my needs if i need at least 5 daily bars ?

 

i only want ninja as execution platform, backtesting i will stick to

my own software; so no more as a week of daily bars are needet

 

any help is apreciated

Edited by flyingdutchmen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i was a litle bit confused about the history lenght supplied by zen-fire

 

so i do have a possebility refering to 3 days ago o/h/l/c data by

using 1440 minuts bars

 

thank you that makes sence

maybe not ideal though

 

i will give it a try

 

thx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In general, as note - all that oddities that you see will not go away, they become more. I disgustingly demanded a refund yesterday for my NT license given that the more serious stuff I do, the more I get demonstrated that - with all respect they deserve - whoever is in charge of quality control at Ninja should sell burgers at McDonalds and not work in IT anymore ever. The lack of daily data (which is terrific in the oversight) as well as a ton of idiocies in API and implementation is ridiculous. Granted, Ninja Trader is among the better platforms. More shocking than anything else.

 

Btw., you all are aware that Zen-Fire is the "data feed that does not exist"? ;) I mean, if you think Zen-Fire is a technology platform, you probably would also see me as car producer if I just change the manufacturer name on cars I sell? Zen-Fire is a simple wrapper around another provider's API and resells that under their own name. Their API is seriously limited compared to the real deal - probably the reason that Ninja itself does not use the official Zen-Fire API but the one provided by the real technology provider. There is nothing particular great thing about Zen-Fire that you can not get from half a dozen clearing firms if you know what to ask about ;)

 

If you do API programming, I can only sugggest you do the same- stay away from Zen-Fire and use their backend with the "real" api from their technology provider. Not only does this make you more independant, you also get a lot more and cleaner functionality (among them for example audit trails to ask for the history of fills should you experience a down time, and risk allowances of your account). The real API also has (limited) functionality to request historical data (same day only at the moment, but I was told they work on expanding that - not only to go 3 years back, but also considering covering bid/ask - which is tremendously important on some rarely traded instruments where bid and ask still move).

 

If you only need daily bars, you can easily go with somehting like eoddata.com - pretty cheap compared to real time data providers. You may also check out google financial API's (free), even for intra day data (though not in extreme granularity, but a lot better than daily bars).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thats a horror story NetTecture

the missing of historical data is what keeping me away sofar from NT,

i dont want to store historical data somewere but be able to open a chart

and view the historical data and the life data at one glimp even if it means

at higher fees/rates.

the charting looks terible. why is it that many people swear on ZenFire's

data and call it to be

much better better for api trading then for example tradestation?

ist is only the better funtionality of level2 and times+sales where tradestation

pretty much fales with their snap-shot data? i wunder what makes NT a

better suitable platform for api then ts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As was said, get another data feed. THat said, they are all limited. There is none offering you full historical feeds - which makes backtesting strategies a little pointless as you can not use filters based on level 2 quote "quality" (i.e. stay out if there is not enough depth, like around major news, when the market gets super-think in some instruments).

 

People loving NInja are mostly not exactly good programmers. TradStation set the bar terribly low, and Ninja tries to stay that low - they seriously abuse the .NET programming model in order to allow a "function like" approach to defining indicators. This is maybe fine for people coming from TS etc., but I sadly earned my life as application architect. I see all the problems of their approach ;)

 

As I have personalyl never really used TS for extensive periods, no comment on that from me ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zenfire is an order execution and real time pricing engine, arguably one of the best. As has been pointed out historical data is provided by Ninja themselves.

 

For a platform that is robust and well architected you might want to give NeoTicker a look. Having said that the API takes a bit (lot) of getting used to. The platform is really petty neat for anything that is 'heavy duty'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[Qute]Zenfire is an order execution and real time pricing engine, arguably one of the best[/Quote]

 

Wrong. Totally wrong. Zen-Fire is a marketing name for a much more common platform that is developped and maintained by another company. Whoever uses Zen-Fire is buying a repackaged product ;) In fact, Zen-Fire has a weaker API than the original product, because whoever made the API Decided to drop a significant part of the functionality. This is extremely obvious in NInja-Trader which is NOT USING THE ZEN-FIRE API. No joke - if you get the API and look at Ninja you find out they... do not use it. They use the "real deal".

 

Rithmic has a great platform, in use by quite a lot more brokers. That Mirus and others decided to wrap it under a different name. From my experiences, they add pretty much nothing to it (as in: no additional functionality).

 

So, technically, anyone using the Zen-Fire API is doing a stupid thing because he limits himself to ONE Rithmic system (because the Zen-Fire API has all the connections hardcoded), while using the real API he could connect quit a lot more different brokers ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right totaly right. It is completely academic whether it is a marketing name, re-packaged, gift wrapped or served in old newspaper that does not detract from it's primary function. We seem to be talking apples and oranges. Your comments are directed at the API (I presume the Ninjatrader API? from your comments it does not seem like you are writing to the ZenFire API) mine are directed at the order execution and pricing platform. If you compare it side by side with other leading platforms (TT for example, which used to hold the crown) it compares very favourably. If you want the timeliest data and fastest order execution it is hard to beat.

 

I too dislike the NinjaTrader architecture and API but that is not my point. I am confused why you blame the Zenfire API for NinjaTraders shortcomings? Are you getting confused, do you mean that NinjaTrader wraps ZenFire's API in a wrapper? What is this 'common platform' you are talking about?

Edited by BlowFish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually no.

 

But if you use the REAL api, then you can do a LOT more than what the ZenFire API Exposes. THIS is what I blame them for. I actually use the ZenFire API myself. It - sorry - is as bad as the NInja API. Beginner mistakes partially - for example exception handling.

 

If you drop it and use the REAL api (i.e. the one desigend for the technology - a C++ lib file, which incidentially is also what is used to build the official zen fire API), you get a lot more functionality:

 

Examples:

 

* Subscription to exchanges

* Risk analysis information from the backend

* Requests for limited historical data (same day), which still comes in handy when you have to reset routers etc.

 

And in fact a lot more. Basically, Zen-Fire is RIthmic repackaged, and when writing the Zen-Fire API they "forgot" a lot of the nice features of the platform.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still think we are talking about apples and oranges. :) So you where using Ninja but wrote your own code to interface with Zenfire? Wow that sounds like a real pain in the a***. I wonder what drew you to NT in the first place? It sounds as if you might be going for full automation? That certainly is an area where retail is not well served. Did you ever look at NeoTicker?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually no, I do not use Ninja with my own code. I use both, NT and my own code side by side on different accounts ;)

 

I work on getting NInja totally out.

 

I STARTED by using the Zen-Fire API directly, but realized it takes a little longer than I want to be able to do all things, so I now run NinjaTrader on a separate account side by side. Great for manual order entry etc. I tried programming, but it did not work out.

 

From the account number actually I realized that NInjaTrader is NOT using the Zen-Fire API - and by that time I actually already had access to the REAL api to the Zen-Fire system, which is basically the Rithmic API, which I am now putting into my code. I realized that, btw., bcause the account number that Ninja Trader gave me includes the clearing group, while I could not get the same out of the Zen-Fire API by any means - the API cuts the string, it seems. On top, NInja Trader does not have the Zen-Fire api dll anywhere ;) Guess what - they wrap the Rithmic api themselves, too.

 

My main complaint with Zen-Fire was historic information access. Not like "ok, i need the last 3 weeks" but as in "my internet was down 10 minutes, what fills exactly id i get when and what ticks happened". Zen-Fire has no API to get historical audit info or even 10minute historical quotes. The "real" zen fire API (i.e. bythe producers of the system - which is more widely used than you think, btw.) has. I can ask for all EXECUTIONS back, I can ask for tick data back (one day at the moment, but they plan to expand that).

 

NeoTicker was not on my desk. TickZoom was (discarded), OpenTrader is. I do a lot of automatism stuff at the moment. Just looked at NeoTicker, and the website is as non-informative as possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

NeoTicker was not on my desk. TickZoom was (discarded), OpenTrader is. I do a lot of automatism stuff at the moment. Just looked at NeoTicker, and the website is as non-informative as possible.

 

You have to drill down quite a way to find stuff and even then it is written as 'yeah you can do xxxxx' rather than 'this is how you do xxxx'. There are some interesting things in the blogs too. If you email them with a list if things that you need they are (or used to be) pretty good at responding. I have not used it for a long time and have no affiliation btw :)

 

What's your plan now carry on working on R | API?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty ridiculous from NeoTicker. Especially in regards to automated trading quite a lot of important questions are the "how". Like - what language. I take more than 5 minutes trying to find out the basics, it shows me it is not a worthy product. They do not care enough ;)

 

My plans for now are easy:

 

* Go on direct trading with NinjaTrader Direct Edition (free from Mirus for my account).

* Automate my trading and data collection using R Api to work against Zen-Fire.

 

The whole thing may turn into an open source and/or closed source framework/product. Not sure.

 

That being said: I am very gratefull to the people at Rithmic. Top notch support. Their API (c++ hardcore, so to say) has some rough edges, but they help me a lot. I am currently busy wrapping that API up in a Managed C++ library for my own use in a C# application ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pretty ridiculous from NeoTicker. Especially in regards to automated trading quite a lot of important questions are the "how". Like - what language. I take more than 5 minutes trying to find out the basics, it shows me it is not a worthy product. They do not care enough ;)

 

My plans for now are easy:

 

* Go on direct trading with NinjaTrader Direct Edition (free from Mirus for my account).

* Automate my trading and data collection using R Api to work against Zen-Fire.

 

The whole thing may turn into an open source and/or closed source framework/product. Not sure.

 

That being said: I am very gratefull to the people at Rithmic. Top notch support. Their API (c++ hardcore, so to say) has some rough edges, but they help me a lot. I am currently busy wrapping that API up in a Managed C++ library for my own use in a C# application ;)

 

Well good luck to you keep us posted how its going.

 

Incidentally You can use pretty much any language with NT mind you its really its the API thats important, NeoTicker can be difficult but it does expose most of its guts through it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Guys,

 

How can I get two indexes on same chart? Like NQ + X; not at the bottom like volume bars but at the top with NQ bars.

 

X = tickq;another index; etc;

 

Thanks.

 

Ninja + Mirus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • My wife Robin just wanted some groceries.   Simple enough.   She parked the car for fifteen minutes, and returned to find a huge scratch on the side.   Someone keyed her car.   To be clear, this isn’t just any car.   It’s a Cybertruck—Elon Musk's stainless-steel spaceship on wheels. She bought it back in 2021, before Musk became everyone's favorite villain or savior.   Someone saw it parked in a grocery lot and felt compelled to carve their hatred directly into the metal.   That's what happens when you stand out.   Nobody keys a beige minivan.   When you're polarizing, you're impossible to ignore. But the irony is: the more attention something has, the harder it is to find the truth about it.   What’s Elon Musk really thinking? What are his plans? What will happen with DOGE? Is he deserving of all of this adoration and hate? Hard to say.   Ideas work the same way.   Take tariffs, for example.   Tariffs have become the Cybertrucks of economic policy. People either love them or hate them. Even if they don’t understand what they are and how they work. (Most don’t.)   That’s why, in my latest podcast (link below), I wanted to explore the “in-between” truth about tariffs.   And like Cybertrucks, I guess my thoughts on tariffs are polarizing.   Greg Gutfield mentioned me on Fox News. Harvard professors hate me now. (I wonder if they also key Cybertrucks?)   But before I show you what I think about tariffs… I have to mention something.   We’re Headed to Austin, Texas This weekend, my team and I are headed to Austin. By now, you should probably know why.   Yes, SXSW is happening. But my team and I are doing something I think is even better.   We’re putting on a FREE event on “Tech’s Turning Point.”   AI, quantum, biotech, crypto, and more—it’s all on the table.   Just now, we posted a special webpage with the agenda.   Click here to check it out and add it to your calendar.   The Truth About Tariffs People love to panic about tariffs causing inflation.   They wave around the ghost of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff from the Great Depression like it’s Exhibit A proving tariffs equal economic collapse.   But let me pop this myth:   Tariffs don’t cause inflation. And no, I'm not crazy (despite what angry professors from Harvard or Stanford might tweet at me).   Here's the deal.   Inflation isn’t when just a couple of things become pricier. It’s when your entire shopping basket—eggs, shirts, Netflix subscriptions, bananas, everything—starts costing more because your money’s worth less.   Inflation means your dollars aren’t stretching as far as they used to.   Take the 1800s.   For nearly a century, 97% of America’s revenue came from tariffs. Income tax? Didn’t exist. And guess what inflation was? Basically zero. Maybe 1% a year.   The economy was booming, and tariffs funded nearly everything. So, why do people suddenly think tariffs cause inflation today?   Tariffs are taxes on imports, yes, but prices are set by supply and demand—not tariffs.   Let me give you a simple example.   Imagine fancy potato chips from Canada cost $10, and a 20% tariff pushes that to $12. Everyone panics—prices rose! Inflation!   Nope.   If I only have $100 to spend and the price of my favorite chips goes up, I either stop buying chips or I buy, say, fewer newspapers.   If everyone stops buying newspapers because they’re overspending on chips, newspapers lower their prices or go out of business.   Overall spending stays the same, and inflation doesn’t budge.   Three quick scenarios:   We buy pricier chips, but fewer other things: Inflation unchanged. Manufacturers shift to the U.S. to avoid tariffs: Inflation unchanged (and more jobs here). We stop buying fancy chips: Prices drop again. Inflation? Still unchanged. The only thing that actually causes inflation is printing money.   Between 2020 and 2022 alone, 40% of all money ever created in history appeared overnight.   That’s why inflation shot up afterward—not because of tariffs.   Back to tariffs today.   Still No Inflation Unlike the infamous Smoot-Hawley blanket tariff (imagine Oprah handing out tariffs: "You get a tariff, and you get a tariff!"), today's tariffs are strategic.   Trump slapped tariffs on chips from Taiwan because we shouldn’t rely on a single foreign supplier for vital tech components—especially if that supplier might get invaded.   Now Taiwan Semiconductor is investing $100 billion in American manufacturing.   Strategic win, no inflation.   Then there’s Canada and Mexico—our friendly neighbors with weirdly huge tariffs on things like milk and butter (299% tariff on butter—really, Canada?).   Trump’s not blanketing everything with tariffs; he’s pressuring trade partners to lower theirs.   If they do, everybody wins. If they don’t, well, then we have a strategic trade chess game—but still no inflation.   In short, tariffs are about strategy, security, and fairness—not inflation.   Yes, blanket tariffs from the Great Depression era were dumb. Obviously. Today's targeted tariffs? Smart.   Listen to the whole podcast to hear why I think this.   And by the way, if you see a Cybertruck, don’t key it. Robin doesn’t care about your politics; she just likes her weird truck.   Maybe read a good book, relax, and leave cars alone.   (And yes, nobody keys Volkswagens, even though they were basically created by Hitler. Strange world we live in.) Source: https://altucherconfidential.com/posts/the-truth-about-tariffs-busting-the-inflation-myth    Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/       
    • No, not if you are comparing apples to apples. What we call “poor” is obviously a pretty high bar but if you’re talking about like a total homeless shambling skexie in like San Fran then, no. The U.S.A. in not particularly kind to you. It is not an abuse so much as it is a sad relatively minor consequence of our optimism and industriousness.   What you consider rich changes with circumstances obviously. If you are genuinely poor in the U.S.A., you experience a quirky hodgepodge of unhelpful and/or abstract extreme lavishnesses while also being alienated from your social support network. It’s about the same as being a refugee. For a fraction of the ‘kindness’ available to you in non bio-available form, you could have simply stayed closer to your people and been MUCH better off.   It’s just a quirk of how we run the place and our values; we are more worried about interfering with people’s liberty and natural inclination to do for themselves than we are about no bums left behind. It is a slightly hurtful position and we know it; we are just scared to death of socialism cancer and we’re willing to put our money where our mouth is.   So, if you’re a bum; you got 5G, the ER will spend like $1,000,000 on you over a hangnail but then kick you out as soon as you’re “stabilized”, the logistics are surpremely efficient, you have total unchecked freedom of speech, real-estate, motels, and jobs are all natural healthy markets in perfect competition, you got compulsory three ‘R’’s, your military owns the sky, sea, space, night, information-space, and has the best hairdos, you can fill out paper and get all the stuff up to and including a Ph.D. Pretty much everything a very generous, eager, flawless go-getter with five minutes to spare would think you might need.   It’s worse. Our whole society is competitive and we do NOT value or make any kumbaya exception. The last kumbaya types we had werr the Shakers and they literally went extinct. Pueblo peoples are still around but they kind of don’t count since they were here before us. So basically, if you’re poor in the U.S.A., you are automatically a loser and a deadbeat too. You will be treated as such by anybody not specifically either paid to deal with you or shysters selling bejesus, Amway, and drugs. Plus, it ain’t safe out there. Not everybody uses muhfreedoms to lift their truck, people be thugging and bums are very vulnerable here. The history of a large mobile workforce means nobody has a village to go home to. Source: https://askdaddy.quora.com/Are-the-poor-people-in-the-United-States-the-richest-poor-people-in-the-world-6   Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/ 
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.