Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

synonym

A True Composite Symbol for Multicharts.

Recommended Posts

Hi there

 

I'm a real coding novice and wondered if any of you experts (or non-experts, i'm not choosey!) out there could help me.

 

I want to be able to create a custom symbol in order to chart the spread differential between two (or ideally 3 or more) symbols in Multicharts.

 

I would want to be able to weight the consistuent symbols, so for example have symbol 1 as 1.00, symbol 2 as -0.50 and symbol 3 as -0.50. I would want the function to chart the differential between those symbols as one symbol (and not as an indicator). This would then allow me to utilise all of the indicators and functionality in MC to analyse this true composite symbol.

 

I know i can do this myself, through merging symbol data in excel and using ASCII format to bring it in to MC, but this is messy and timeconsuming. Ideally the composite symbol would be able to import the data from whatever dataprovider i am using and picking the data up from the selected symbols via quotemanager.

 

Someone has created a composite symbol (CompoSymbol) indicator on the MC forum and this can chart the differential between two symbols, but it does this as an indicator and so means you cannot have other indicators/analysis based on it.

 

I was wondering whether,

1. Is this actually possible in MC?

2. Has anyone has already had the need for this and so already done the coding?

3. If so, would they be kind enough to share it?

 

Looking forward to see if anyone can help or advise.

Regards

Syn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  synonym said:
...

Someone has created a composite symbol (CompoSymbol) indicator on the MC forum and this can chart the differential between two symbols, but it does this as an indicator and so means you cannot have other indicators/analysis based on it...

 

Syn

 

 

 

 

Andrew already given you the solution, but I don't think you understood the process.

 

 

Let me try again here, with step-by-step instruction:

 

 

Step One:

 

create a function named spread_d1d2 with the following code:

 

spread_d1d2 = c data1 - c data2;

 

 

Step Two:

 

In your chart (with the 2 data series), apply any indicator you want to use for your analysis.

 

In the "Format Study" window, enter spread_d1d2 as the Price.

 

I have attached the moving average study as illustration.

 

 

HTH

 

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=12120&stc=1&d=1247417471

Format_Study.gif.63a6d70796206121c34152b4f1a92c83.gif

Edited by Tams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder what the practical limit is of MC? In neoticker (which I no longer use) you could build your own indexes from the constituent components as the DAX dosent have a $TICK maybe I'll have a go at making one and seeing if MC can handle it.

 

Another thought does data2 .. data30 .. dataNN generate indicator updates on ticks and is there a limit on NN?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  Tams said:
Andrew already given you the solution, but I don't think you understood the process.

 

 

Let me try again here, with step-by-step instruction:

 

Hi Tams,

that's fantastic. You're right Andrew did reply, but being a complete novice at coding i didn't realise the potential of what he was saying.

 

I really hope what you've mentioned works as i'd like it to. That'd be great! Don't take that as though i'm doubting you by the way. I'm just happy that you've probably solved my problem in such a simple way. I'll try it and let you know how i get on.

 

I assume that if i wanted to include more than two symbols in the spread, or make an equity spread where there is a partial ratio between the symbols, e.g. cdata1 - 0.70cdata2 - 0.30cdata2, i would simply include this in the code for the function. Am i right? I'm guessing i might be right in principle, but wrong in code! :haha:

 

Thanks again for your helpful reply.

Syn

Edited by synonym

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  BlowFish said:
I wonder what the practical limit is of MC? In neoticker (which I no longer use) you could build your own indexes from the constituent components as the DAX dosent have a $TICK maybe I'll have a go at making one and seeing if MC can handle it.

 

Another thought does data2 .. data30 .. dataNN generate indicator updates on ticks and is there a limit on NN?

 

It'd be interesting to know how you get on if you do try it. It's a really useful function, as not all data providers have the groupings/sectors, etc that you might want to analyse.

 

I can't see why dataNN would not update on ticks, if you are charting on ticks, but then again, i am far from the best qualified person to answer that question.

 

Syn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  synonym said:
...

I assume that if i wanted to include more than two symbols in the spread, or make an equity spread where there is a partial ratio between the symbols, e.g. cdata1 - 0.70cdata2 - 0.30cdata2, i would simply include this in the code for the function. Am i right? I'm guessing i might be right in principle, but wrong in code! :haha:

 

Thanks again for your helpful reply.

Syn

 

 

 

YUP... you've got it.

 

It is as simple as that !!!

 

 

close data1 - 0.70 * close data2 - 0.30 * close data3

 

 

note: * is the multiplication sign.

 

 

 

 

 

p.s. use brackets to group items together for easier identification:

 

close data1 - ( 0.70 * close data2 ) - ( 0.30 * close data3)

 

 

.

Edited by Tams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tams do you happen to know if a new print on data2 will generate an indicator update and do you happen to know how you check which data stream generated the update if it does?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  BlowFish said:
Tams do you happen to know if a new print on data2 will generate an indicator update and do you happen to know how you check which data stream generated the update if it does?

 

 

MultiCharts technical support had posted an explanation at their site. (I will try to look for the post.)

Basically any new tick will generate a marker that something has changed, and MultiCharts will update all the dependent calculations and plot the chart accordingly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That sounds adequate to construct your own index.

 

I wonder how scalable it is, at times MC dosent feel that fast and efficient simply receiving storing and displaying data. Maybe OK for building the DJ 30 but I imagine the SP 500 or the Russel 2000 would not be practical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  Tams said:
YUP... you've got it.

 

It is as simple as that !!!

 

 

close data1 - 0.70 * close data2 - 0.30 * close data3

 

 

note: * is the multiplication sign.

 

 

 

 

 

p.s. use brackets to group items together for easier identification:

 

close data1 - ( 0.70 * close data2 ) - ( 0.30 * close data3)

 

 

.

 

That's brilliant Tams, thank you! I've been unable to get the time to try this since your initial post. But i have today off from work and so i'll be doing it today.

Cheers

Syn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Tams

i'm very please to say that i have got the spread function working perfectly along with various indicators based upon it. So, again thanks very much for your help!

 

The spread_d1d2, obviously plots as an indicator. So now the challenge is for me to find out whether i can base backtesting on this, using the spread_d1d2 indicator as the symbol price to use in the strategy, e.g. for the price of spread_d1d2 to be used as entry and exit points. I'm guessing that this may be rather difficult or impossible, because MC sees spread_d1d2 as an indicator and not a symbol and so MC might not actually allow you to treat it as a symbol.

 

Have you ever tried to use the spread_d1d2 indicator in such a way? It'd be really helpful to know as i have not done any backtesting in MC before and so have a bit of a learning curve to negotiate at the same time!

 

Cheers

Syn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  BlowFish said:
That sounds adequate to construct your own index.

 

I wonder how scalable it is, at times MC dosent feel that fast and efficient simply receiving storing and displaying data. Maybe OK for building the DJ 30 but I imagine the SP 500 or the Russel 2000 would not be practical.

 

 

EasyLanguage was not designed to build a 2000 stock index.

 

As a matter of fact, EasyLanguage "was" not designed to do a lot of things we do now. It started life at a time when people were only making daily charts; intraday data were not yet readily available to the mass (pre-broadband days). You can see some of the keywords still have the EOD legacy to their design. e.g. Volume, Ticks.

 

In terms of speed, MultiCharts is one of the few programs that can utilize a multi-core CPU. I believe the limitation lies with the data feed, and not the program. (e.g. IB only allows 99 concurrent symbols for most users).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  synonym said:
Hi Tams

i'm very please to say that i have got the spread function working perfectly along with various indicators based upon it. So, again thanks very much for your help!

 

The spread_d1d2, obviously plots as an indicator. So now the challenge is for me to find out whether i can base backtesting on this, using the spread_d1d2 indicator as the symbol price to use in the strategy, e.g. for the price of spread_d1d2 to be used as entry and exit points. I'm guessing that this may be rather difficult or impossible, because MC sees spread_d1d2 as an indicator and not a symbol and so MC might not actually allow you to treat it as a symbol.

 

Have you ever tried to use the spread_d1d2 indicator in such a way? It'd be really helpful to know as i have not done any backtesting in MC before and so have a bit of a learning curve to negotiate at the same time!

 

Cheers

Syn

 

 

Backtesting will give you varied results.

 

Bear in mind, backtesting is not REAL.

At least not "realistic" in 99% on the software on the market today.

 

The only way to make a "real" test is if the software can stream the data (with bid/ask) as if in real time.

 

 

If you base your backtesting on EOB and not IOG, you can obtain some workable results.

 

Enjoy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course. I would only be wanting to do relatively simple backtesting. I like to keep things simple and i don't think complicated TA is useful on spreads. It's more about wanting to get a feel for what things are useful and how and what things are not.

 

Can you please explained what you mean by EOD or IOG?

 

And from your reply, i assume your implying that i can backtest on the basis of using the spread indicator in place of a symbol?

 

Cheers

Syn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  synonym said:
...

And from your reply, i assume your implying that i can backtest on the basis of using the spread indicator in place of a symbol?

 

Cheers

Syn

 

 

see answer from prev post...

 

  Tams said:
Backtesting will give you varied results.

 

...

 

If you base your backtesting on EOB and not IOG, you can obtain some workable results.

 

Enjoy!

 

 

p.s.

"Workable results" does not suggest "accurate/dependable/reliable/repeatable results".

With the current technology, backtesting cannot give you "accurate results".

Understanding the mechanics of "backtesting" can help you to "work" with the results you get.

Edited by Tams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  Tams said:
EasyLanguage was not designed to build a 2000 stock index.

 

As a matter of fact, EasyLanguage "was" not designed to do a lot of things we do now. It started life at a time when people were only making daily charts; intraday data were not yet readily available to the mass (pre-broadband days). You can see some of the keywords still have the EOD legacy to their design. e.g. Volume, Ticks.

 

In terms of speed, MultiCharts is one of the few programs that can utilize a multi-core CPU. I believe the limitation lies with the data feed, and not the program. (e.g. IB only allows 99 concurrent symbols for most users).

 

As an old supercharts user I appreciate it was very different in those days. You may be right, though MC certainly has odd bottlenecks (rasterising used to be very slow pre V5.0 not sure how it is now). Anyway I guess if you are going to do this sort of work Neoticker would be worth considering. The multi core stuff is mainly (only?) for optimising strategies I think? Some of the core tasks (receiving, storing and displaying data) still feel 'sluggish' to me.

 

Having said that it would be fun to do the DJ 30 and see if that works efficiently.

 

As an aside imho some of MC's biggest weaknesses are due to retaining old TS 'features' obviously EL is a massive plus point but some of the other architectural and UI design decisions where hampered by basing them on an ancient (for software) application.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  BlowFish said:
As an old supercharts user I appreciate it was very different in those days. You may be right, though MC certainly has odd bottlenecks (rasterising used to be very slow pre V5.0 not sure how it is now). Anyway I guess if you are going to do this sort of work Neoticker would be worth considering. The multi core stuff is mainly (only?) for optimising strategies I think? Some of the core tasks (receiving, storing and displaying data) still feel 'sluggish' to me...

 

 

MultiCharts can use multi-core in backtesting/optimization as well as real time charting.

 

You can see a difference if you have multi-screen, lots of charts, and lots of indicators.

Each chart is assigned to a CPU core. If you have a quad-core CPU, you can see the workload is distributed over all 4 cores.

p.s. you can verify this by looking at the CPU Performance graphs in your Task Manager.

 

IO tasks are handled by one CPU. This is a PC hardware and OS logistics limitation, not a MultiCharts issue. This architecture is shared by most computers, except the mainframe and supercomputers.

 

 

.

Edited by Tams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  Tams said:
MultiCharts can use multi-core in backtesting/optimization as well as real time charting.

 

You can see a difference if you have multi-screen, lots of charts, and lots of indicators.

Each chart is assigned to a CPU core. If you have a quad-core CPU, you can see the workload is distributed over all 4 cores.

However the IO tasks are handled by one CPU. This is a PC hardware and OS logistics limitation, not a MultiCharts issue. This architecture is shared by most computers, except the mainframe and supercomputers.

 

I didn't know that different charts used different threads,you live and learn.:) In the past 'IO' (receiving data, storing it and rasterising it) has been slugish (imo of course). Mind you the v5.0 patch notes mentioned significant improvements, 10 times for rasterising charts I believe. One way of looking at that is the old stuff was 'slow' well 10 times slower at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  BlowFish said:
I wonder what the practical limit is of MC? In neoticker (which I no longer use) you could build your own indexes from the constituent components as the DAX dosent have a $TICK maybe I'll have a go at making one and seeing if MC can handle it.

 

Another thought does data2 .. data30 .. dataNN generate indicator updates on ticks and is there a limit on NN?

 

Hi BlowFish

just out of interest, does that mean neotciker can create such a custom symbol that can be used just as a real symbol, i.e. so you can make full use of neoticker's functionality on it?

Also, not being nosey, i just wondered why do you no longer use neoticker? Any particular weakness(es)?

Syn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  synonym said:
Hi BlowFish

just out of interest, does that mean neotciker can create such a custom symbol that can be used just as a real symbol, i.e. so you can make full use of neoticker's functionality on it?

Also, not being nosey, i just wondered why do you no longer use neoticker? Any particular weakness(es)?

Syn

 

Neoticker is a great product though it has a pretty steep learning curve compared to good old easy language it seems pretty hard to me! It is fast and flexible but you pay for that power by having a lot to learn. The main reason I stopped using it (many years ago now) was I had some data management issues with odd holes appearing in my tick data. Looking back it probably wasn't that big of a deal though it was irritating. Take a look at TickQuest Inc. NeoTicker® - Professional Traders & Analysts NeoBreadth halfway down the page. Though I don't want to distract you from what you are doing!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NeoTicker is one powerful program; little known in the retail sector, it is mostly used by professionals and institutions. If I had not bought MultiCharts, it would be on the top of my list.

 

 

BTW, NeoTicker can do multi-stream tick playback. It is one of the few programs that can perform a forward backtest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  BlowFish said:
Neoticker is a great product though it has a pretty steep learning curve compared to good old easy language it seems pretty hard to me! It is fast and flexible but you pay for that power by having a lot to learn. The main reason I stopped using it (many years ago now) was I had some data management issues with odd holes appearing in my tick data. Looking back it probably wasn't that big of a deal though it was irritating. Take a look at TickQuest Inc. NeoTicker® - Professional Traders & Analysts NeoBreadth halfway down the page. Though I don't want to distract you from what you are doing!

 

I've just had a look. Looks absolutely perfect for my needs. But if it involves having to be more reliant on tougher coding than MC then i don't think it would be for me. But i'll definitely take a closer look.

 

Thanks BlowFish!

 

Syn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  Tams said:
NeoTicker is one powerful program; little known in the retail sector, it is mostly used by professionals and institutions. If I had not bought MultiCharts, it would be on the top of my list.

 

 

BTW, NeoTicker can do multi-stream tick playback. It is one of the few programs that can perform a forward backtest.

 

I looked at Neoticker when i was buying MC. But i was put off by the complexity of it. In my perfect world, i could do the whole lot without having to touch any code. I guessed to use Neoticker you have to rely upon code more than you do using MC?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • My wife Robin just wanted some groceries.   Simple enough.   She parked the car for fifteen minutes, and returned to find a huge scratch on the side.   Someone keyed her car.   To be clear, this isn’t just any car.   It’s a Cybertruck—Elon Musk's stainless-steel spaceship on wheels. She bought it back in 2021, before Musk became everyone's favorite villain or savior.   Someone saw it parked in a grocery lot and felt compelled to carve their hatred directly into the metal.   That's what happens when you stand out.   Nobody keys a beige minivan.   When you're polarizing, you're impossible to ignore. But the irony is: the more attention something has, the harder it is to find the truth about it.   What’s Elon Musk really thinking? What are his plans? What will happen with DOGE? Is he deserving of all of this adoration and hate? Hard to say.   Ideas work the same way.   Take tariffs, for example.   Tariffs have become the Cybertrucks of economic policy. People either love them or hate them. Even if they don’t understand what they are and how they work. (Most don’t.)   That’s why, in my latest podcast (link below), I wanted to explore the “in-between” truth about tariffs.   And like Cybertrucks, I guess my thoughts on tariffs are polarizing.   Greg Gutfield mentioned me on Fox News. Harvard professors hate me now. (I wonder if they also key Cybertrucks?)   But before I show you what I think about tariffs… I have to mention something.   We’re Headed to Austin, Texas This weekend, my team and I are headed to Austin. By now, you should probably know why.   Yes, SXSW is happening. But my team and I are doing something I think is even better.   We’re putting on a FREE event on “Tech’s Turning Point.”   AI, quantum, biotech, crypto, and more—it’s all on the table.   Just now, we posted a special webpage with the agenda.   Click here to check it out and add it to your calendar.   The Truth About Tariffs People love to panic about tariffs causing inflation.   They wave around the ghost of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff from the Great Depression like it’s Exhibit A proving tariffs equal economic collapse.   But let me pop this myth:   Tariffs don’t cause inflation. And no, I'm not crazy (despite what angry professors from Harvard or Stanford might tweet at me).   Here's the deal.   Inflation isn’t when just a couple of things become pricier. It’s when your entire shopping basket—eggs, shirts, Netflix subscriptions, bananas, everything—starts costing more because your money’s worth less.   Inflation means your dollars aren’t stretching as far as they used to.   Take the 1800s.   For nearly a century, 97% of America’s revenue came from tariffs. Income tax? Didn’t exist. And guess what inflation was? Basically zero. Maybe 1% a year.   The economy was booming, and tariffs funded nearly everything. So, why do people suddenly think tariffs cause inflation today?   Tariffs are taxes on imports, yes, but prices are set by supply and demand—not tariffs.   Let me give you a simple example.   Imagine fancy potato chips from Canada cost $10, and a 20% tariff pushes that to $12. Everyone panics—prices rose! Inflation!   Nope.   If I only have $100 to spend and the price of my favorite chips goes up, I either stop buying chips or I buy, say, fewer newspapers.   If everyone stops buying newspapers because they’re overspending on chips, newspapers lower their prices or go out of business.   Overall spending stays the same, and inflation doesn’t budge.   Three quick scenarios:   We buy pricier chips, but fewer other things: Inflation unchanged. Manufacturers shift to the U.S. to avoid tariffs: Inflation unchanged (and more jobs here). We stop buying fancy chips: Prices drop again. Inflation? Still unchanged. The only thing that actually causes inflation is printing money.   Between 2020 and 2022 alone, 40% of all money ever created in history appeared overnight.   That’s why inflation shot up afterward—not because of tariffs.   Back to tariffs today.   Still No Inflation Unlike the infamous Smoot-Hawley blanket tariff (imagine Oprah handing out tariffs: "You get a tariff, and you get a tariff!"), today's tariffs are strategic.   Trump slapped tariffs on chips from Taiwan because we shouldn’t rely on a single foreign supplier for vital tech components—especially if that supplier might get invaded.   Now Taiwan Semiconductor is investing $100 billion in American manufacturing.   Strategic win, no inflation.   Then there’s Canada and Mexico—our friendly neighbors with weirdly huge tariffs on things like milk and butter (299% tariff on butter—really, Canada?).   Trump’s not blanketing everything with tariffs; he’s pressuring trade partners to lower theirs.   If they do, everybody wins. If they don’t, well, then we have a strategic trade chess game—but still no inflation.   In short, tariffs are about strategy, security, and fairness—not inflation.   Yes, blanket tariffs from the Great Depression era were dumb. Obviously. Today's targeted tariffs? Smart.   Listen to the whole podcast to hear why I think this.   And by the way, if you see a Cybertruck, don’t key it. Robin doesn’t care about your politics; she just likes her weird truck.   Maybe read a good book, relax, and leave cars alone.   (And yes, nobody keys Volkswagens, even though they were basically created by Hitler. Strange world we live in.) Source: https://altucherconfidential.com/posts/the-truth-about-tariffs-busting-the-inflation-myth    Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/       
    • No, not if you are comparing apples to apples. What we call “poor” is obviously a pretty high bar but if you’re talking about like a total homeless shambling skexie in like San Fran then, no. The U.S.A. in not particularly kind to you. It is not an abuse so much as it is a sad relatively minor consequence of our optimism and industriousness.   What you consider rich changes with circumstances obviously. If you are genuinely poor in the U.S.A., you experience a quirky hodgepodge of unhelpful and/or abstract extreme lavishnesses while also being alienated from your social support network. It’s about the same as being a refugee. For a fraction of the ‘kindness’ available to you in non bio-available form, you could have simply stayed closer to your people and been MUCH better off.   It’s just a quirk of how we run the place and our values; we are more worried about interfering with people’s liberty and natural inclination to do for themselves than we are about no bums left behind. It is a slightly hurtful position and we know it; we are just scared to death of socialism cancer and we’re willing to put our money where our mouth is.   So, if you’re a bum; you got 5G, the ER will spend like $1,000,000 on you over a hangnail but then kick you out as soon as you’re “stabilized”, the logistics are surpremely efficient, you have total unchecked freedom of speech, real-estate, motels, and jobs are all natural healthy markets in perfect competition, you got compulsory three ‘R’’s, your military owns the sky, sea, space, night, information-space, and has the best hairdos, you can fill out paper and get all the stuff up to and including a Ph.D. Pretty much everything a very generous, eager, flawless go-getter with five minutes to spare would think you might need.   It’s worse. Our whole society is competitive and we do NOT value or make any kumbaya exception. The last kumbaya types we had werr the Shakers and they literally went extinct. Pueblo peoples are still around but they kind of don’t count since they were here before us. So basically, if you’re poor in the U.S.A., you are automatically a loser and a deadbeat too. You will be treated as such by anybody not specifically either paid to deal with you or shysters selling bejesus, Amway, and drugs. Plus, it ain’t safe out there. Not everybody uses muhfreedoms to lift their truck, people be thugging and bums are very vulnerable here. The history of a large mobile workforce means nobody has a village to go home to. Source: https://askdaddy.quora.com/Are-the-poor-people-in-the-United-States-the-richest-poor-people-in-the-world-6   Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/ 
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.