Daytradetowin

[Guest farjood]

Has anyone ever heard of daytradetowin system by a guy named John Paul? if so, please provide your feedback....Thanks

Edited July 10, 2009 by farjood

[rangerdoc 13]

It's an open range breakout system.

[bakrob99 11]

  rangerdoc said:

It's an open range breakout system.

 

Could you elaborate a little bit?

[Maxx 10]

Hello,

 

can you tell us more about this system?

 

thanks.

[rangerdoc 13]

Most Open Range Breakout systems take the highest high and lowest low of the first few bars after the open. 30 minutes is typical. The setup is long when price goes above the high and short when price breaks below the low. The difference between systems is mostly in the entry trigger, stops & profit target.

 

The web is overflowing with free information on ORB systems. Just do a Google search. Another good resource (but very expensive) is a book by Toby Crabel, "Day Trading with Short Term Price Patterns and Open Range Breakout". It's likely you'll come across the term "Crabel Patterns" when researching ORB systems.

[bakrob99 11]

Thanks but I am familiar with ORB system and Crabel, but do you have specific knowledge about the DayTradeToWin system or have you made your conclusions on some other basis?

 

The reason why I ask, is because I have heard him say that the price for entry is known befor ethe opening bell which rules out any ORB type system unless he is using the ORB as a confirming indicator to a pre-market entry price.

[swansjr 10]

I don't know the system in question. I do not have the system or PDF. However, if you know your entry price before the open then you must be taking into account; 1) price action in the overnight session or 2) price action of the previous day or 3) both.

 

One could easily set up a price range two hours before the market's 8:30 central open and use that as the "range" for a range-breakout.

 

I just looked at his videos and I would bet he is using a portion of the overnight session to establish the range. He then looks for a breakout above/below that range and enters in the direction of the breakout on a pullback.

 

Hope that helps.

[bakrob99 11]

  swansjr said:

I don't know the system in question. I do not have the system or PDF.

 

Thanks for your thoughts/analysis, but I am actually interested if ANYONE at TL has tried it out or knows any facts about the system.

[bakrob99 11]

Thanks Richard and SwansJr. That answers my question.

[RobotMan 10]

Hi

 

I was just browsing through the forum and noticed this post. I am not a frequent contributor here although I lurk and search for things I am interested in. Often times I find very insightful contributions that help with my trading development. Many times I have read and learned about things that do not work or are just plain naive. I am very appreciative to those that question the veracity of some who post here and would like to offer my view of "DayTradToWin.com".

 

I trade the open. I am constantly seeking to understand the personality (if you will) of the market open so as to be able to trade it with any edge I might gleam. I heard about DaytradeToWin.com, I think, when doing a YouTube search for "order flow" or some such idea. In January - April 2009, I watched a few of his videos, listened to him (John Paul) in an hour long online webinar and went to his website and ordered his "system" along with a trial of the NinjaTrader indicator. I was curious and figured that $400 was not that big of deal to find out.

 

I studied the pdf "system" and tried to make sense of it. It seemed random and arbitrary. Poorly explained at best. However the indicator gave signals that were accurately reflected on his results page of his website. Seeing that I have not signed any non-disclosure, nor am I profiting from posting it and have given proper credit to the author, I have attached a relevant section of the text that explains the methodology. I wish you luck in trying to figure it out and how it relates to his otherwise fine indicator.

 

My conclusions are that, while the posted indicator does what it says it does, in my opinion, it is a dubious "black box" and some of the fills would be almost impossible to obtain as they were at the extreme tick of the entry bar. Therefore, if you are still interested, forgo buying the written system and try the indicator for a trial period and sim trade it to see if it fits you. His results on his webpage are impressive (but aren't they all), however, I have found that I am a momentum trader with my own fully developed method and DayTradeToWin does not remotely fit with my trading style. Like I said before, I am continually curious about how the market moves on the open and paid a $400 tuition fee to audit a class.

 

Even though i am several months late to this party, hope that helps.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Soultrader
removed copyright material requested by author

[bakrob99 11]

Thank Robotman.

 

Many times when I look at the actual fills that are included as part of a system, they are fills that never seem to happen for me in real time. The low of a bar or the High of a bar are not places that many of us get to trade.

 

Good luck with your trading.

[swansjr 10]

  RobotMan said:

Hi

 

I was just browsing through the forum and noticed this post. I am not a frequent contributor here although I lurk and search for things I am interested in. Often times I find very insightful contributions that help with my trading development. Many times I have read and learned about things that do not work or are just plain naive. I am very appreciative to those that question the veracity of some who post here and would like to offer my view of "DayTradToWin.com".

 

I trade the open. I am constantly seeking to understand the personality (if you will) of the market open so as to be able to trade it with any edge I might gleam. I heard about DaytradeToWin.com, I think, when doing a YouTube search for "order flow" or some such idea. In January - April 2009, I watched a few of his videos, listened to him (John Paul) in an hour long online webinar and went to his website and ordered his "system" along with a trial of the NinjaTrader indicator. I was curious and figured that $400 was not that big of deal to find out.

 

I studied the pdf "system" and tried to make sense of it. It seemed random and arbitrary. Poorly explained at best. However the indicator gave signals that were accurately reflected on his results page of his website. Seeing that I have not signed any non-disclosure, nor am I profiting from posting it and have given proper credit to the author, I have attached a relevant section of the text that explains the methodology. I wish you luck in trying to figure it out and how it relates to his otherwise fine indicator.

 

My conclusions are that, while the posted indicator does what it says it does, in my opinion, it is a dubious "black box" and some of the fills would be almost impossible to obtain as they were at the extreme tick of the entry bar. Therefore, if you are still interested, forgo buying the written system and try the indicator for a trial period and sim trade it to see if it fits you. His results on his webpage are impressive (but aren't they all), however, I have found that I am a momentum trader with my own fully developed method and DayTradeToWin does not remotely fit with my trading style. Like I said before, I am continually curious about how the market moves on the open and paid a $400 tuition fee to audit a class.

 

Even though i am several months late to this party, hope that helps.

 

 

I just finished reading your PDF you posted. I have to say, this looks nothing like the DayTradeToWin videos posted on the web site or at youtube.

 

1) The PDF says use 250-tick charts yet, the videos use 5-minute charts.

 

2) The PDF uses 2-3 tick targets while the videos use 2 or 4 POINT targets.

 

3) The PDF is a trend fading strategy, while the videos are a trend following strategy.

 

4) The PDF states that you can trade many times per day. Yet, the video only trade once or twice per day max.

 

5) The PDF uses horizontal lines every 2 pts as reference points while it sure seems to me the videos use a breakout of the pre-market range.

 

6) The course is $597, not $400.

 

 

My question is, where did you get his PDF? Are you sure its "At The Open" from Day Trade To Win. It looks like a completely different method. Just wondering....

[RobotMan 10]

  Quote

My question is, where did you get his PDF? Are you sure its "At The Open" from Day Trade To Win. It looks like a completely different method. Just wondering....

 

That is the EXACT same thing I said when I first received it! It doesn't make any sense. That is the point I am making. The file I posted is an abbreviated portion of the entire document, but it is word for word and includes the examples. If you would like I could send you the entire pdf file and you can judge for yourself.

 

I have attached the title page and the table of contents as a .jpg if that is any help.

 

Since last winter I have not pursued anything to do with this methodology and the author might have changed it since then. At the time I ordered, the price was $397.

[swansjr 10]

  RobotMan said:

That is the EXACT same thing I said when I first received it! It doesn't make any sense. That is the point I am making. The file I posted is an abbreviated portion of the entire document, but it is word for word and includes the examples. If you would like I could send you the entire pdf file and you can judge for yourself.

 

I have attached the title page and the table of contents as a .jpg if that is any help.

 

Since last winter I have not pursued anything to do with this methodology and the author might have changed it since then. At the time I ordered, the price was $397.

 

Point well taken. I was tempted to order the e-book several months back to see what it had to offer but from what you posted either I'm really stupid or the ebook is poorly written. Maybe it's both. In short, I'm glad I did not order it.

 

Here is a video of a recorded trade from November of 2008 and it sure looks like the same method. So, I don't think he has changed his method at all, or at least not much.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1WpFJQSbQw]Emini S&P Day Trading To Win 11/07/2008 - Profits Again WOW[/ame]

 

Thanks for sharing.

[nyctrader 10]

Thanks Robotman for posting the pdf. The first 3 chapters have been available free for a while. There's a link at the top of the page on the daytradetowin site. Also, if you look over the site, the "At the Open" trade still seems different from the scalping method described in the pdf, in terms of both targets and stops. The testimonials also refer to both the scalping method and the ATO trades. So, perhaps there is more data in the concluding chapters?

Edited September 14, 2009 by nyctrader

[drsushi 10]

the 250 tick chart method is a free scalping method he throws in if you buy the course. I bought the course and it is a ORB method. You do not know the entry price before the open. The E-book is very long winded and is purposely made to be 50 or so pages when you can explain the method on one page. The biggest draw back regarding the method is that he uses a 5 point stop with a 2 point and 4 point target. I've traded it a few times and then dropped it. I don't like the stop size for the target size and I don't like blindly entering just because the breaks an area and comes back to it.

[rcossey73 10]

1) His videos are made using a simulator and NOT real trades. The problem with this is some of his fills will never happen in a live environment.

 

2) His posted losers were based on a 5 point loss, however many of his winners retrace at least 7 points against him before reversing. He doesn't address this in the course and refused to answer why.

 

3) The system is based on a variation of the ORB. He doesn't know the entry before the open, it is based on High/Low of first 30 minutes or so.

[ZOSO 10]

He is world class, snake oil selling whore. Not unlike the vast majority of vendors.

[Ranger 10]

I purchased and use the ATO method. I programmed the indicator in Easy Language and backtested it over a few years. My partner programmed the same in Ninja Trader(he also purchased ATO), and he backtested it too. We compared results and found them similiar. We both trade the method and relating specifically to ATO, that's all I feel comfortable posting.

 

Having said that, I can share:

 

1) some general comments on Breakout Systems;

 

2) a good breakout method here in PDF, the 15Min Opening Range Scalp;

 

3) associated indicator and signals in EL for your use. Both can be modified and stepped over different time frames to find the best entry time frame. The exit signal may require a little love and attention.

 

Note **********:

 

a) Backtest results on the Breakout System outlined in the attached document and the ATO demonstrate that the systems make winning trades but filtering the trades prior to entry improves their results substantially. See below for filtering.

 

b) Filtering: Breakout systems require a confirmation of a breakout(not a market head fake). How one confirms this is a matter of trading style and experience.

 

c) Filtering: I recommended a review of Price Levels that could work as RESISTANCE to the breakout ie OHLC and Intra-day(previous) Price Levels. I don't typically take the trade, if PRICE LEVELS OHLC fall too close 1-2 points from the intended direction of my trade because of the risk of reversal.

 

d) Filtering: I also don't take the trade, if there's huge movement from one level to the other because of the risk of reversal (6-8pts).

 

e) Filtering: I rarely enter the trade unless, I have a confirmation of trend using the 250T. In many cases using the Breakout method, price will have to retrace to pick-up your price, make sure it's trending in your direction first before entering.

 

f) I also recommend identifying placement points for averaging-in or Stop Loss. If price moves against you the choices are few. (1) average-in with hope of bailing on a retracement; (2) Stop-Out; (3) stay in the trade and hope for good results. Having a disciplined approach will improve performance.

 

g) I find that unless PRICE breaks-out as intended or if the trade starts to work against me, I typically quickly adjust my Profit Target and bail at a tick profit ... re-entering is cheap insurance, if I was wrong.

 

h) I follow the Price Levels on a 5 Min Chart but track every tick and trend on the 250T, when in the trade. I have AutoTrend Lines; Volume(looking for high volume to indicate potential reversal).

 

Watch for PRICE CONFIRMATION on the Breakout; Don't be afraid to enter 2 Ticks above the levels following trend confirmation; don't be afraid to bail on a trade that's questionable to you; if price continues to tick and tick at a certain Price Level ... hmmm - you're probably not the only one thinking about what to do next - follow volume.

 

If you reference the attached document, (15) Minute Open Range Scalp Method, you will have a comparable system OR Breakout Method. EL indicator and signals attached for reference. Perhaps you can improve on the performance following backtest.

 

Hope this was helpful.

LBR_Scalp_setups[1].pdfFetching info...

15 Min ORS.plaFetching info...

[ziebarf 10]

  rcossey73 said:

1) His videos are made using a simulator and NOT real trades. The problem with this is some of his fills will never happen in a live environment.

 

2) His posted losers were based on a 5 point loss, however many of his winners retrace at least 7 points against him before reversing. He doesn't address this in the course and refused to answer why.

 

3) The system is based on a variation of the ORB. He doesn't know the entry before the open, it is based on High/Low of first 30 minutes or so.

 

Also if you take a peek at his DOM, it is not white. Atleast for me, live trading in ninja gives you a white DOM, not grey..

 

Gooooood morning traders :crap:

[littlefish 10]

If the professor day trades to win, why is he selling pdf's to win? :missy:

[BennyHey 10]

I purchased it and he was nice enough to give me a refund within 24hours. I stayed up all night to compare the posted results with the real world trades and found that it is at best a break-even system.

 

Unfortunately, there are several grey areas, were losing traders were posted as small winners or break-even trades based on HIS interpretation of price action. Additionally I pointed out that the SIM-account was visible on the DOM on one of his youtube videos. He removed the videos within 12hours. Notice that the daytradetowin logo covers the acct. information on his DOM in all his videos. He would say it is to protect his account information.

 

I think he is not trading real $$ as his system doesn't make $$ in the long run. If you get lucky you can run at a profit for a short time but in the long run with slippage, commission, and the grey area fudge factor you won't make any money.

 

I have a friend who has a seat on the CME exchange. He makes a 6 figure income and said he would not sell his trading system for 10 million dollars. If you had a profitable trading system would you just give it away for $200??

 

With that said he was nice enough to refund my money so at least he had a certain amount of integrity.