The Price / Volume Relationship

[emac 10]

My 2 cents worth..

Thurs lateral - 3rd increasing red bar vol created by up move to form a doji at the close. The volume thus is not totally increasing red but if we split, it should be red followed by a black.

 

On 9/3, the increasing red vol is created in the lateral is by price going down which signals a potential down move but would probably have to wait for BO of lateral to confirm, correct ?

[patrader 10]

Good. Now, set aside Volume (for just a moment) and determine if all of the examples under discussion form in the exact same (as our reworded definition) way. Those that do not form in such a fashion fall into a different pile. Next, look at context (VE's, declining pace or accelerating pace, etc.), and finally, check the order of events. Can you 'see' a completed Volume Cycle before the formation of the Lateral?

 

Now, bring Volume back into the analysis. Price moving in the dominant direction (after a completed Volume Sequence) on decreasing Volume tells you a very specific thing.

 

 

 

- Spydertrader

What follows is my read of some of the subtle differences.On 9/2 the market was moving in a dominant direction but had not completed its volume sequence(bar 1 of sym lateral is pt 2) when the lateral boundary(pt 3) was created on the non-dominant side of the sym lateral.Completion of the volume sequence occurred soon after the open of 9/3. The market on 9/3 was also moving in a dominant direction but this time had a completed volume sequence when the lateral boundary was created on the dominant side of the sym lateral.HTH

[Yader 10]

Hey everyone,

 

I'm still plunking along. Right now I'm trying to figure out what to do with laterals and gaussians. A few questions in my head are: 1) Can I have a full gaussian r2r2b2r (or b2b2r2b) in a lateral? 2) Can I have part of a gaussian sequence in a lateral say r2b?, and 3) Is a lateral simply one leg (just r, or just b) in a larger gaussian sequence?

 

Any examples for me to pick apart would be greatly appreciated, or a link to somewhere where this has already been discussed (in the 200+ pages). Hope the redundancy is not too annoying.

 

-yader

[TIKITRADER 10]

Hey everyone,

 

. . .

 

Any examples for me to pick apart would be greatly appreciated, or a link to somewhere where this has already been discussed (in the 200+ pages). Hope the redundancy is not too annoying.

 

-yader

 

 

Forums - Spydertrader's Jack Hershey Futures Trading Journal

 

Forums - Iterative Refinement

 

There is a tremendous amount of information in these two links. It will take some searching through them but on the way you may discover many other things.

Re-reading a few times can clarify areas even though you will swear they were not there the first read through.

[patrader 10]

add two more sym laterals to the sym lateral pile.

[Ezzy 10]

Could someone post a price and volume 5m ES chart for Friday and or Thursday? Doesn't need to be annotated, blank would work fine. Thanks

 

- EZ

[gucci 10]

Could someone post a price and volume 5m ES chart for Friday and or Thursday? Doesn't need to be annotated, blank would work fine. Thanks

 

- EZ

 

Here you go Ezzy. The trading hours are confined within black vertical lines. The times are CET.

[Ezzy 10]

Here you go Ezzy. The trading hours are confined within black vertical lines. The times are CET.

 

Thanks, just what I needed!

[cnms2 10]

add two more sym laterals to the sym lateral pile.

The spikiness seems to be a factor.

[MKTr 10]

Monday 20 Sep 2010.

 

MK

[wind_ 11]

Monday 20 Sep 2010

 

wind_

[MKTr 10]

Tues 21 Sep 2010.

 

Note the extreme effect on price parallelagrams and fractal length due to extreme changes in pace.

 

MK

[wind_ 11]

Tuesday 21 Sept 2010

[wind_ 11]

Wednesday 22 Sept 2010

[wind_ 11]

Thursday 23 Sept 2010

[patrader 10]

Hmmm,another friday ends with a sym lateral.Gotta luv it.

[ehorn 10]

My view of the day...

 

Have a nice weekend.

[wind_ 11]

Friday 24 Sept 2010

 

Had an error in annotating thursday's sequence. Turned out that the down channel had completed on Thursday, and a new up channel started on Friday.

 

Have a good weekend everyone.

[saturo 10]

My view of the day...

 

Have a nice weekend.

 

ehorn - really appreciate you putting your charts up.

 

Question - you have a tape level (finest level) B2B opening the day.. ending around 10:45. From the open to 10:45 there are 4 black peaks. Could you detail out the analysis you did as each black peak appeared in real time?

 

e.g.

 

peak 1 - not an FTT ... nested volume sequence not complete.

 

TIA

[ehorn 10]

ehorn - really appreciate you putting your charts up.

 

Question - you have a tape level (finest level) B2B opening the day.. ending around 10:45. From the open to 10:45 there are 4 black peaks. Could you detail out the analysis you did as each black peak appeared in real time?

 

e.g.

 

peak 1 - not an FTT ... nested volume sequence not complete.

 

TIA

 

 

YVW, I am happy to share my thoughts.

 

Nice observation and it is true... All peaks are not created equal...

 

Peaks and troughs are always informing the trader... But some peaks cause one to take notice more carefully than others. In particular, where those peaks occur (both throughout the day and with regards to where one finds themselves within the sequences). These particular peaks are showing us a gradual pace slowing as lunchtime approaches (typical of the standard catenary distribution).

 

So say a 5 minute fractal trader is examining peaks, and lets say a 5M traverse level trader is performing the routine - He/she knows what is needed first before sequences can possibly complete. We need a PT2 and a PT3 and then a return to dominance before one should look for change? yes?

 

What do we know about PT2's...? Where do they need to form?

 

Some days we have nice pace and/or we find the market poised in a location (with regards to TL's) where we can zip right through the nest to get where we are going Pt1, Pt2, PT3 and FTT in little time.

 

Other days we see how the nest elongates (like an accordian being stretched) as we make our way from PT1 across to the previous TL's seeking our new traverse level PT2.

 

IMHO, Friday is a nice example of how sub-fractals nest themselves on the way to a PT2 (on 5M traverse level).

 

IOW, While I have shown multiple fractals annotated for Friday, I think of them as sub's as we make our way to a PT2 of the traverse. So from a 5M perspective, it was one long tape moving towards 5M fractal level traverse Pt2.

 

HTH,

[saturo 10]

 

So say a 5 minute fractal trader is examining peaks, and lets say a 5M traverse level trader is performing the routine - He/she knows what is needed first before sequences can possibly complete. We need a PT2 and a PT3 and then a return to dominance before one should look for change? yes?

 

 

Absolutely yes.

 

OK so around 10 AM we *begin* looking for PT3 on our traverse. We immediately have a pullback around 10:15 - why not label this PT3? We also have a red inside bar around 10:30 - why isn't this PT3?

 

In real time I thought the 10:15 pullback was PT3 so I ended up reversing early - I'd really like to understand why I should have avoided "taking that exit" on the road to sequences completed

[ehorn 10]

I can only share my views for your consideration.

 

Consider the attached picture. It contains 3 levels:

 

Tapes (Black/Red)

Traverses (Medium Green/Orange)

Channel (Thick Green)

 

If you wish, label the PT1,2,3 and FTT and consider how this applies to last weeks market formations.

 

Then ask yourself, do we have a PT2 of the latest up traverse yet... Did Friday give us a PT2 on a 5M fractal?

 

HTH

[patrader 10]

IMHO, Friday is a nice example of how sub-fractals nest themselves on the way to a PT2 (on 5M traverse level).

 

IOW, While I have shown multiple fractals annotated for Friday, I think of them as sub's as we make our way to a PT2 of the traverse. So from a 5M perspective, it was one long tape moving towards 5M fractal level traverse Pt2.

 

HTH,

 

ehorn,then the thin lines on your price and volume panes are sub tape level annotations? such a bbt's or sub bbt's?

[patrader 10]

I can only share my views for your consideration.

 

Consider the attached picture. It contains 3 levels:

 

Tapes (Black/Red)

Traverses (Medium Green/Orange)

Channel (Thick Green)

 

If you wish, label the PT1,2,3 and FTT and consider how this applies to last weeks market formations.

 

Then ask yourself, do we have a PT2 of the latest up traverse yet... Did Friday give us a PT2 on a 5M fractal?

 

HTH

 

Something like this ehorn?

[cnms2 10]

Absolutely yes.

 

OK so around 10 AM we *begin* looking for PT3 on our traverse. We immediately have a pullback around 10:15 - why not label this PT3? We also have a red inside bar around 10:30 - why isn't this PT3?

 

In real time I thought the 10:15 pullback was PT3 so I ended up reversing early - I'd really like to understand why I should have avoided "taking that exit" on the road to sequences completed

I've written a few notes (on Ehorn's chart) for the period you enquired about.