The Price / Volume Relationship

[ehorn 10]

It might be interesting to discuss why at that point the right side of the market was still short, except if you traded ftt to ftt (FFs) and reversed short there again.

 

The market built a R2R (14:05 -14:20 [internal]) which needed to be satisfied.

 

(All times Eastern [close-of bar])

[ehorn 10]

Is it a traverse or tape?

 

--

innersky

 

I annotated it as a traverse with PT2 @ 13:30 and PT3 @ 14:05 (Eastern times).

[cnms2 10]

The market built a R2R (14:05 -14:20 [internal]) which needed to be satisfied.

 

(All times Eastern [close-of bar])

In this case I don't understand what did you mean with your 1150 am edit "EDIT: 14:40 OB was a wash...". Where did you see the previous two reversal points: the "long", and the "short" before that "wash"? I noticed on your chart that r2r, but you seemed to expect it to be followed by a b2b.

[ehorn 10]

In this case I don't understand what did you mean with your 1150 am edit "EDIT: 14:40 OB was a wash...". Where did you see the previous two reversal points: the "long", and the "short" before that "wash"? I noticed on your chart that r2r, but you seemed to expect it to be followed by a b2b.

 

3 actions today...

 

Enter Long (bar 2)

Reverse Short (posted the chart snippet)

Reverse Long --> Exit (wash trade on OB)

 

In RT, my decision and action (for my trading fractal) was incorrect in this area (14:10 --> ET) - the market confirmed this with the OB - so I washed the long. The edit was a notification of the error made in my routine. HTH

Edited May 22, 2010 by ehorn
spelling

[cnms2 10]

3 actions today...

 

Enter Long

Reverse Short

Reverse Long --> Exit (wash trade on OB)

 

In RT, my decision and action (for my trading fractal) was incorrect in this area (14:10 --> ET) - the market confirmed this with the OB - so I washed the long. The edit was a notification of the error made in my routine.

Congratulations! Nice trading!

[ehorn 10]

Congratulations! Nice trading!

 

Thanks,

 

Crayola shows the offer (I focus on), what was taken (thick), and what was left (thin). I should have stuck around for that PT3.

 

The anti-whipsaw would have been the reversal - not a wash. So PFC (as I see it) has DOM lat, looking for FF completion and PT2 of DOM traverse. Have a nice weekend.

Edited May 22, 2010 by ehorn

[cnms2 10]

Thanks,

 

Crayola shows the offer (I focus on), what was taken (thick), and what was left (thin). I should have stuck around for that PT3.

Can't argue with such performance I just thought that I can incite people to an interesting discussion I, and maybe others, could learn from.

[emac 10]

Who doesn't enjoy a 40 point traverse!

 

Hi ehorn,

 

Great move ! WTG !

 

As I study your chart, I observed that from bar 8 (10:10 AM) to 18 ftt, your first tape was from bar 1 to 8, second tape move from bar 8 - 18 on the down move before the final tape up to the top. I had some issues with understanding the 2nd tape move down. On my chart, I had 2 additional tapes on the small move up bar 13 - 15 and then down tape 15 - 17.

 

What would be the right way to annotate this type of situations as I find that it does happen quite alot ?

[cnms2 10]

Hi ehorn,

 

Great move ! WTG !

 

As I study your chart, I observed that from bar 8 (10:10 AM) to 18 ftt, your first tape was from bar 1 to 8, second tape move from bar 8 - 18 on the down move before the final tape up to the top. I had some issues with understanding the 2nd tape move down. On my chart, I had 2 additional tapes on the small move up bar 13 - 15 and then down tape 15 - 17.

 

What would be the right way to annotate this type of situations as I find that it does happen quite alot ?

It seems that your gaussians don't support your price annotations.

[Spydertrader 10]

What would be the right way to annotate this type of situations as I find that it does happen quite alot ?

 

See attached.

 

Based on your annotation convention, you appear to see the attached chart in terms of three equal containers which create a larger (light green) container. In other words, each of the three equal containers (two blue up and one down red) form in the exact same fashion and exist on equal footing - relative to one another. However (as cnms2 pointed out), your Gaussians fail to match the convention used in your Price Pane. Moreover, even with adjusting your Gaussians correctly, it appears as though you have yet to determine why the three equal weight containers exist in the manner presented.

 

Remember, it is not enough to simply annotate lines onto a chart. One must strive to understand the 'why' behind the action.

 

Begin with asking yourself whether (or not) you have accurately applied the order of events onto this specific chart in a manner applicable to the number of fractals observed.

 

 

- Spydertrader

[emac 10]

See attached.

 

In other words, each of the three equal containers (two blue up and one down red) form in the exact same fashion and exist on equal footing - relative to one another. However (as cnms2 pointed out), your Gaussians fail to match the convention used in your Price Pane. Moreover, even with adjusting your Gaussians correctly, it appears as though you have yet to determine why the three equal weight containers exist in the manner presented.

 

Remember, it is not enough to simply annotate lines onto a chart. One must strive to understand the 'why' behind the action.

 

Begin with asking yourself whether (or not) you have accurately applied the order of events onto this specific chart in a manner applicable to the number of fractals observed.

 

 

- Spydertrader

 

If I understand your comment correctly, for each of the containers to exist on equal footing, then it is part of the 1-2-3 of a larger container. Which would mean that the red move down would be the second move to find pt 3 as you have drawn. The gaussians would be supporting this. So for a full move down, then we need to have a R2R2B2R. So I redrew the gaussians to reflect that (thanks to ehorn's chart).

 

Earlier I drew a tape down FF2, followed by FF3. But it looks like FF3 cannot be on the same footing since it would mean a point 3 within the previous Long TF1. And therefore, it is only a part of the red move down. Hope I am getting it close to getting the "why" correct.

[Spydertrader 10]

Hope I am getting it close to getting the "why" correct.

 

All markets exist fractally. Therefore, if one wishes to correctly (and thoroughly) annotate a chart in order to reflect this fractal nature, one must know why (according to your convention) the medium weight Red and Blue containers represent one fractal, the light green (thick) container represents a slower fractal, and the black and red (skinny) lines (inside the down medium red container) represents a third (but faster) fractal.

 

**Please note, I have not defined these three containers as 'tapes' or 'traverses' or 'channels' (or even goats).

 

Each of the containers annotated (irrespective of fractal) contains a Point One, Point Two and Point Three. Volume moves Price in a very specific way between these Points. Beginning with each of the Two Bar cases (posted earlier in this thread) expand on what you know as additional bars arrive on scene. At some Point, you'll fail to see that which the market has provided. A short period of time later, you'll ask yourself the question, "How should I have known (or seen) that which I must have missed?"

 

Once you have the ability to form the question, you'll find you already know the answer.

 

- Spydertrader

[MKTr 10]

24 May 2010 5' ES, Gap Closed. New format.

 

MK

[rs5 10]

Monday 24 May 2010...

[cnms2 10]

24 May 2010 5' ES, Gap Closed. New format.

 

MK

From the height of your volume bars on your chart I'm guessing you're not looking much at the volume information, and you're using that pane mostly to log your price derived annotation. Don't forget that this method is based on price and volume, with volume leading the price.

[MKTr 10]

Thank you. The volume pane is one side of PV and Price the other. Using one without the other does not make sense. I doubt anyone can trade PV without using volume. I added the plus sign to allow volume to be viewed more easily. For me, during a trading day, the volume pane is larger relative to the price pane. I post the chart as I do to provide what I think is a more complete perspetive, overall. Another reason the volume levels are so low is that I am trying to keep perspective on previous high volume days. Today, volume was not very high compaired to previous days. Most of the time I cannot trade intraday so I trade overnight.

 

MK

[ehorn 10]

My view of the day... PFC has DOM lat looking for PT2 of accelerated traverse

[colossians 10]

quote=ehorn;97125]My view of the day... PFC has DOM lat looking for PT2 of accelerated traverse

 

ehorn, thanks for posting. When I study your chart again, it appears that you hvaave 3 gaussians for 3 nested fractals. What is interesting is that not all the lowest fractals gaussians are drawn but only some. So the way I am reading it, the pattern must complete on a particular fractal or what Spyder referred to as equal footing. And if the subsequent gaussians are otherwise, then a sub fractal may be showing up maybe due to lower volumes. In that case, then we need to complete the subfractal PVT to arrive back at the particular fractal move e.g. 1:55pm to 2:40 pm pt 2 to pt 3 move.

 

Am I reading it right this time? If so, then the term fractal jumping is what it is, isn't it ? Which also goes to explain why I get to conflicting B2B followed immediately by R2R moves which is not logical.

Edited May 25, 2010 by colossians

[ehorn 10]

I observe that every fractal develops in the same manner (pattern). Some fractals can be hidden or highlighted (depending on pace), but the sequences are always the same. Once all fractals for a given trend have completed, then the trend completes and a new trend begins. HTH

[ehorn 10]

My view of the day...

[MKTr 10]

25 May 2010 5' ES

 

MK

[rs5 10]

Tuesday 25 May 2010...

[lbj 10]

I noticed that PT multistation trading terminal shows an extra little bar chart for the volume, at the bottom of the chart beneath every candle, which I find convenient, especially for scalpers.

[rs5 10]

Wednesday 26 May 2010

[ehorn 10]

My view of the day...