The Price / Volume Relationship

[rs5 10]

Friday 12 March 2010

[FJK 10]

I have a question regarding Thursday's ES chart, for anyone.

How could we know that 13:50 wasn't the FTT ending the up channel?

 

- become

 

In my opinion the sequences weren't complete at that point in time. We still needed 2r2b on the tape fractal. See chart:

[NYCMB 10]

In my opinion the sequences weren't complete at that point in time. We still needed 2r2b on the tape fractal. See chart:

Hi FJK angd everyoone who is interested in PV Relationship

 

Bar 63 is DOJI, closes inside Bar 62 and on Increasing Black Volume. It sure looks like sequence completed here. Could you shed light how a trader should not go short on Bar 63? The up trend kept going on till the end of the day. TIA

[become 10]

In my opinion the sequences weren't complete at that point in time. We still needed 2r2b on the tape fractal. See chart:

 

Thanks for the response. I should have phrased the question more precisely.

 

How do we know, in real time, that the b2b2r2b sequence from 12:40 to 13:50 occurs on a faster fractal?

 

- become

[Ezzy 10]

Could you shed light how a trader should not go short on Bar 63? The up trend kept going on till the end of the day. TIA

 

B2B coming out of the lateral.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Ezzy

[Ezzy 10]

The thick purple channel is most likely a traverse. Got tired of working with skinny line weights so bumped it all up a level. Re-worked this several times, it may still be wrong so buyer beware.

[become 10]

The thick purple channel is most likely a traverse. Got tired of working with skinny line weights so bumped it all up a level. Re-worked this several times, it may still be wrong so buyer beware.

 

fwiw, that's identical to my chart - we can't both be wrong, can we?

[Ezzy 10]

fwiw, that's identical to my chart - we can't both be wrong, can we?

Now we're in trouble :o

[NYCMB 10]

B2B coming out of the lateral.

 

Hi Ezzy,

 

Do you mean " B2B" formed from Bars 67, 68, 69 and 70? TIA

[Boux 10]

I'm reviewing some postings from past journals on ET.

Seems emphasis and perspectives have evolved to some degree. (just my opinion)

 

The FTT is the key to

the entire methodology. -Spyder

 

Spyder would you say the FTT is still the key or would it be volume sequence or something else----or is it different for each individual?

Just curious as to the perspective that time and experience has created.

[Spydertrader 10]

I'm reviewing some postings from past journals on ET.

 

A wealth of information exists within the previous discussions and past journals. However, one must take great care to understand the context surrounding the discussion illuminated within those old posts.

 

Seems emphasis and perspectives have evolved to some degree. (just my opinion).

 

Taking action within a five minute ES Bar (based on signals generated from a finer tool set) would appear to difer greatly (as a perspective or emphasis) than simply using Coarse Level Tools exclusively. However, in reality, the fractal on which the trader executes represents the only item which actually changes (other than the trader themself).

 

would you say the FTT is still the key or would it be volume sequence or something else----or is it different for each individual?

 

Which piece of the overall puzzle finally aligns the tumblers within a trader's mind differs greatly for each individual taking this journey just as everyone's individual mental filters differ greatly due to their own life experience. As such, one person may easily grasp the concept of Lateral Differentiation but find great dificulty recognizing Volume Sequences. Whereas, another individual cannot complete the Lateral Formation Drill, but has no problem with Volume Sequences. Each piece of the puzzle represents no more or no less an important thing to the person who has yet to overcome their own specific obstacle.

 

However, since all trends begin, and all trends end, in the exact same fashion. One need only have the ability to recognize this specific point in time in order to profit from the information provided by the market itself. As it turns out, the market signals this specific point in time by creating an FTT.

 

Knowing when the market has provided an FTT provides the trader with the signal they require to enter, exit or reverse. I'd say that's pretty important.

 

Just curious as to the perspective that time and experience has created.

 

I have already done, or a continue to do that which I have advised within the many pages of the current discussion. The market's ability to track sentiment over time has not changed since the invention of markets, nor will it change anytime in the foreseeable future.

 

Having the ability to trade profitably represents a consequence of the fully differentiated mind.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

[Ezzy 10]

Hi Ezzy,

 

Do you mean " B2B" formed from Bars 67, 68, 69 and 70? TIA

 

No, you were asking about bar 63, how you would know on that bar.

 

14:20 is where I see the end of the previous move, and start of the first B2B. 14:20 - 15:20 is a higher level B2B. Sorry, I don't do bar numbers, one less thing to worry about.

 

Regards - EZ

[FJK 10]

Bar 63 is DOJI, closes inside Bar 62 and on Increasing Black Volume. It sure looks like sequence completed here. Could you shed light how a trader should not go short on Bar 63? The up trend kept going on till the end of the day. TIA

 

In retrospect, I think volume told us that the up-trend wasen't done yet. One other thing, I believe that Spyder mentioned how he handled DOJI bars in NYC in 2009. I remember it as if he didn't 'count' the bar. If so, we have to wait for the next IBV to close outside the previous lateral. In this example, the bar gaped one tick down from the previous bar, so I'm not sure it qualifies as a 'real' DOJI. Other attendees at that meeting feel free to correct my vague memory.

 

If doing SCT, and you did go short on that bar, you would simply correct your mistake as soon as you realize your mistake - at the very latest as price break out of the lateral - by reversing long.

[FJK 10]

How do we know, in real time, that the b2b2r2b sequence from 12:40 to 13:50 occurs on a faster fractal?

 

- become

 

The only place there is some non-dominant (red) movement (outside the lateral) is the two bars around 1250-1300. If you were to think of these as 2r in a tape, 1250 have to be point 2. It can't be, because it is still inside the previous tape (starting from 1055). My reasoning is therefore that 1240-1350 can not be anything else than a BBT.

[Ezzy 10]

I believe that Spyder mentioned how he handled DOJI bars in NYC in 2009. I remember it as if he didn't 'count' the bar.

 

FWIW, I believe he was referring to a "married" doji, where the doji's open/close = prior close. There is an example 2 bars later at 14:55. 13:45 is another nearby example.

 

On the June contract 14:20 - 14:30 are all married doji's, but viewed them differently due to volume/sequences.

 

Not sure if Spyder had certain "contexts" in mind when he mentioned them. Maybe he could clarify?

[ptunic 10]

On a random topic, when anyone here is drawing Traverse and Channel lines, do you find you have to first have an annotated chart for the last several days? And then you squeeze your chart time setting so 2-5 days all fit on the screen at once, and only then annotate your Channel lines (and sometimes Traverses too if the Tapes that day are long-lasting)?

 

I find it very difficult to analyze Channel (and often Traverse) trend lines without "zooming out", was just curious if I am doing this completely incorrectly or this is what is commonly done.

 

On another topic, I've been playing with the new TN Gap Elimination Tool as well as constant trendline angle tool, and these are huge timesavers! Thanks to Spydertrader and anyone else who worked on this. I do have one feedback item (might be something I'm doing wrong), after a new day starts and the overnight gap is eliminated, my previous annotations don't get adjusted so they are off. I'm hoping there is a way for me to grab these annotations and move them up/down all at once to compensate, got to tinker with it some more. The new tools are a big help though!

[Ezzy 10]

On a random topic, when anyone here is drawing Traverse and Channel lines, do you find you have to first have an annotated chart for the last several days? And then you squeeze your chart time setting so 2-5 days all fit on the screen at once, and only then annotate your Channel lines (and sometimes Traverses too if the Tapes that day are long-lasting)? snip....

 

I'm hoping there is a way for me to grab these annotations and move them up/down all at once to compensate, got to tinker with it some more. The new tools are a big help though!

 

I squeeze the chart setting too, but only to fill in past traverses, channels. Not during the trading day. Sometimes even changing it to a 10 or 15 min. The issue is when deleting past annotations to keep TN from bogging down. Depending on where we're at I may need several days of channels or traverses to keep my bearings.

 

A nice tool would be to be able to select certain days, or use a box to select areas to delete annotations. Instead of only being able to delete everything. That said, the newer version of TN doesn't seem to be as bad and I've gone a couple weeks before deleting annotations. If you haven't upgraded in a while it's worth it, plus getting the new tools.

 

Regarding moving prior annotations with the gap removal, I was under the impression they were working on it - but don't hold your breath.

 

Regards - EZ

[treeline 10]

One little glitch when using the freeze slope tool. It works fine for trend lines. But if you use TN's trend channel, sometimes the channel will rotate at a fast rate, instead of extending/shortening. If it does that use the end of the other trend line instead.

 

There's no rhyme or reason, sometimes the LTL does it, sometimes the RTL. And it's not the top or bottom one consistently. Couldn't nail down any consistent pattern. So if grabbing one line is a problem, use the other.

 

Hi Ezzy,

 

In order to lengthen a trend channel without changing the slope, ctrl-click on the first line you drew when annotating the channel, not the cloned line. If you click on the cloned line, you'll get the rotating effect. Usually the trend channel is created by first drawing an RTL, but keep in mind that when you draw a tape to a stitch or OB, the trend channel will be created by first drawing an LTL. This is probably why you didn't see a consistent pattern.

Edited March 15, 2010 by treeline
clarity

[Ezzy 10]

Hi Ezzy,

 

In order to lengthen a trend channel without changing the slope, ctrl-click on the first line you drew when annotating the channel, not the cloned line. If you click on the cloned line, you'll get the rotating effect. Usually the trend channel is created by first drawing an RTL, but keep in mind that when you draw a tape to a stitch or OB, the trend channel will be created by first drawing an LTL. This is probably why you didn't see a consistent pattern.

 

That could be it. I usually use the Channel tool for the real small tapes, stitches or taping to OB. That would flip flop the control line.

 

Thanks - EZ

[rs5 10]

Monday 15 March 2010

[Ezzy 10]

Monday 3-15 with Friday's chart re-worked.

[TIKITRADER 10]

Applying the method to CL

[NYCMB 10]

Monday 3-15 with Friday's chart re-worked.

 

Hi Ezzy and everyone who is interested in PV relationship,

 

Please see the attachment. I have 2 questions regarding the ES chart---

 

1) If the sequence of Blue container stops on 10:50 (close of) bar, how could the X be the point 1 of Pink Container?

 

2) Assumed both Blue and Pink containers are correctly annotated, how could Y (inside Blue container ) be the pt 2 in geometrical sense and Z be the real pt 2 of Pink container? TIA

[Ezzy 10]

Monday 3-15 with Friday's chart re-worked.

 

See corrected chart, reworked area 15:30 Friday to 9:55 today.

 

2) Assumed both Blue and Pink containers are correctly annotated,

 

Assume nothing. I had just finished revising this, what timing.

[Gregor_S 10]

My chart for Monday March 15th