The Price / Volume Relationship

[Ezzy 10]

This is all the encouragement anyone needs. Attached is a spreadsheet based on the ES. Plug in the minimum points per day you think you could pull, and starting number of contracts. See how your account grows. It's based on $2K margin per contract.

 

You don't have to kill it to do very well. Even starting with only 1 or 2 points per day. Many believe even that is not possible.

ExpAcctGrowth.xls

[Spydertrader 10]

Can you post or demonstrate from a historical perspective, the trades that the individual took over the 5 day period while you sat next to him to make $22,000 trading in the low volatility market trading this system?

 

I could, quite easily, provide the information you requested, but without understanding the rationale for why a specific action takes place, transference cannot tke place. In other words, the information you have requested simply points out things can be done, rather than point out how things are done. The information contained within this thread points out a process for learning how to learn to M-A-D-A.

 

More importantly, should the individual responsible for the trades I mentioned desire to share their success with others, then I'd expect them to step forward, rather than, have the information come from me.

 

I assure you that I am not suggesting that you pulled that dollar amount out of thin air;

 

Good. Because, if i wanted to 'invent' a number, I'd have invented a much larger one. The dollar amount here isn't even important. As I have always said, staying on the 'right side' of the market matters far more than 'being right.'

 

instead, I simply would like to see how an individual could earn an amount that we would all love to be able to earn trading futures on a short term basis.

 

Again, knowing when someone placed a trade does not provide the how or the why they chose to place that specific trade. The process represents are far more important thing. My point (the reason why I mentioned these results in the first place) was to show (through a brief process of differentiation) how some individuals choose to see the world one way, when simply by changing one's orientation, the world reveals some incredible things.

 

It is your system, so I thought that you might post those trades to give those following the thread the encouragement to continue.

 

It isn't my system (nor Jack's nor anyone else who profits from it). The 'system' belongs to the market itself. I've simply tried to show how individuals can learn to see it for themselves - and through their own efforts.

 

Also, what was the contract size that the trader was trading?

 

Ten Contracts, so if you do the math, that comes to about 44 points for the week (or just a bit less than 9 points per trading day)

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

[Spydertrader 10]

If you care to let others make a claim and let it go unsubstantiated ....

 

I have the ability to determine continuation or change on any fractal annotated on my chart. I can trade using course level tools only (meaning just a 5 minute ES Chart), or I can bring 'finer level' tools into the equation (YM, Str - Squ, DOM and Tic Charts). I can 'jump' fractals, or choose not to do so maintaining fractal integrity across an entire day and / or multiple days, weeks, months or years.

 

To you, each of the above represents an "unsubsubstantiated claim." To those who have seen me trade live, the above statements represent absolute fact. Were I to choose to attempt to alter your perception (from one viewpoint to another), you'd still not have the information required to do for yourself that which, for me, represents an activity no more complicated than taking water from a fountain.

 

I have instead chosen to provide all the information ever required (contained within this very thread), so an individual who chooses to work purposefully, can, under their own power, learn to do that which I 'claim' can be done.

 

As a result, I do not orient to an individuals 'belief system.' As such I can (quite easily) choose not to worry about 'proving' I can do what I 'claim.' I've left behind a roadmap. The vast majority of people choose to see the map as too complicated, or more than likely, never bother to look at the map in the first place.

 

I'm quite content with such things. However the decision (to ignore or dismiss as valueless that which I have provided) must be owned by the individual making it.

 

Believe my words have merit, or believe I am completely full of shit. I do not care which, nor do I have a stake in whichever choice the individual makes. All I ask is that people own their decisions.

 

- Spydertrader

[TIKITRADER 10]

This is a quote from JH regarding bbt's, tapes. traverses, and channels

 

_______________________________________________________________________

Quote from jack hershey:

 

...What is letting you hit the snooze button is the "very quiet" that is assembling itself. The "channel long' that follows is not going to be a "show" or "tell" to many people at all. It will just take 3 traverses, 9 tapes, and 27 BBT's plus some CP4 stretching and tweaking. end quote.

__________________________________________________________________________-

 

 

 

 

So here Jack is explaining that is takes . . .

 

1) 27 - building block tapes ( I am taking it that a BBT is the smallest tape possible as 2 bar )

 

a) dom bbt - non dom bbt -dom bbt = 3 bbt's and they in turn build 1 dominant, or 1 non dominant tape.

 

 

 

2) 9 - Tapes

 

a) 3 bbt's build 1 tape ( tape = a dominant segment, a non dominant segment, and a final dominant segment ) to complete a set of sequences for a tape.

 

 

3) 3 - Traverses

 

a) There are 3 tapes to complete a full set of sequences to build the traverse.. dominant- non dominant - dominant.

 

b) A completed traverse is built of 3 tapes, or 9 bbt's ( 3 tapes of 3 bbt's each. )

 

 

 

Combining all the above, will complete the below . . .

 

 

4) Channel - completed and built from:

 

 

a) 3 traverses ( dominant, non dominant , dominant )

 

in turn are built from . . .

 

 

b) 9 tapes ( 6 dominant, 3 non dominant )

 

in turn are built from . . .

 

 

c) 27 Building block tapes ( 18 dominant , 9 non dominant )

 

 

 

Thank you to JH

 

 

post is to help those who have recently begun this work, also to highlight the bbt's

Edited October 11, 2009 by TIKITRADER

[PTVtrader 10]

This is a quote from JH regarding bbt's, tapes. traverses, and channels

 

_______________________________________________________________________

Quote from jack hershey:

 

...What is letting you hit the snooze button is the "very quiet" that is assembling itself. The "channel long' that follows is not going to be a "show" or "tell" to many people at all. It will just take 3 traverses, 9 tapes, and 27 BBT's plus some CP4 stretching and tweaking. end quote.

 

 

 

 

 

So here Jack is explaining that is takes . . .

 

1) 27 - building block tapes ( I am taking it that a BBT is the smallest tape possible as 2 bar )

 

a) dom bbt - non dom bbt -dom bbt = 3 bbt's and they in turn build 1 dominant, or 1 non dominant tape.

 

 

 

2) 9 - Tapes

 

a) 3 bbt's build 1 tape ( tape = a dominant segment, a non dominant segment, and a final dominant segment ) to complete a set of sequences for a tape.

 

 

3) 3 - Traverses

 

a) There are 3 tapes to complete a full set of sequences to build the traverse.. dominant- non dominant - dominant.

 

b) A completed traverse is built of 3 tapes, or 9 bbt's ( 3 tapes of 3 bbt's each. )

 

 

 

Combining all the above, will complete the below . . .

 

 

4) Channel - completed and built from:

 

 

a) 3 traverses ( dominant, non dominant , dominant )

 

in turn are built from . . .

 

 

b) 9 tapes ( 6 dominant, 3 non dominant )

 

in turn are built from . . .

 

 

c) 27 Building block tapes ( 18 dominant , 9 non dominant )

 

 

 

Thank you to JH

 

 

post is to help those who have recently begun this work, also to highlight the bbt's

 

Come on TIKI, your giving away the farm . There's no reason why gaussians should be ambiguous now :did I say that?: . Just remember when your drawing your gaussians...remember this :

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f34/price-volume-relationship-6320.html#post70030 :applaud:

 

__________________________________________________________________________-

[ehorn 10]

IMO, As one becomes more and more familiar with the routine, MADA becomes a series of sweeps and WMCN questions all day, on every bar, on all fractals. The binary aspect of the routine is that when WMCN does not, one is left with only one answer...

 

I also believe that as one becomes more and more effective (the goal of learning to learn) WMCN ultimately becomes WWCN...

[Mr_black 10]

2 scalps on this bank holiday(fbo and ftt)

[TIKITRADER 10]

This is a power point slide based on the construction off BBT's, Tapes,Traverse, and finally Channel.

 

I share this in hopes to bring good healthy discussion, and all to enjoy.

 

This was reviewed for content before posting to ensure it would beneficial.

 

Thank You Spyder.

Channel Constuction JH -Spyder.pdf

[rs5 10]

Monday 12 October 2009

[rs5 10]

This is a power point slide based on the construction off BBT's, Tapes,Traverse, and finally Channel.

 

I share this in hopes to bring good healthy discussion, and all to enjoy.

 

This was reviewed for content before posting to ensure it would beneficial.

 

Thank You Spyder.

 

Thank you Tikitrader! That is very helpful!

[e-gbp 10]

 

Euro Dollar 5m above

Hello, I use volume to time my entries, i have an indicator that will put an x on high volume/low volume, this will generate a lot of false trades so confirmation is from the following bar a break higher will devalidate a sell, lower devalidates the buy very simple, targets are set by support resistance (this doesn't work alone it is just to time entries.)

[Mr_black 10]

es,ym.....I bet there was a huge stretch , squeeze on ym marked areas

[Mr. Bojangles 10]

Spydertrader,

 

Not to be too nit-picky, but what you are calling "Gaussians" would probably be more appropriately call "Histograms". If you've read "The Black Swan", you would have a high sensitivity to the word Gaussian .

[Spydertrader 10]

Not to be too nit-picky, but what you are calling "Gaussians" would probably be more appropriately call "Histograms". If you've read "The Black Swan", you would have a high sensitivity to the word Gaussian .

 

According to mikeytrader, both Ireland and myself refuse to read books. In fact, the only trading book (if you can call it that) I have ever read was Reminiscences of a Stock Operator. If the word, 'Gaussians' bothers you (or the author of, "The Black Swan") then I recommend you call the lines goats.

 

Goat herders aren't much for picking nits, so I don't think they will care.

 

Good trading to you.

 

- Spydertrader

[FJK 10]

My take on 13/10-2009. As usual, comments welcome

 

Please keep goats out of this discussion. They are fine animals. They don't bother anyone. If I ever get to pull 50 points out of the market each day using these methods, I plan to retire as a goatherd in the Alps :missy:

[MKTr 10]

Good evening all,

 

I have been attempting to learn this method for a while. This newest thread really resonates with me. I have limited resources due to my day job but feel I can finally show where I am at with my learning how to learn in search of feedback. I anticipate a lot of errors but seek to find a way to contribute (and learn more). I have not previously posted because, so far, every answer is out there somewhere or in a chart.

 

This is my hack at 12 Oct 2009 on 5 minute ES. Any feedback is welcome.

 

Thank you to Jack, Spyder and many others for their generosity and patience.

 

MK

[MKTr 10]

Correction, my hack at 13 Oct 2009.

 

MK

[ehorn 10]

...After all, The 'opening' gap isn't the only Gap which does not exist.

 

- Spydertrader

 

Been looking at a few charts... Very cool !!!!!

 

:helloooo:

[TIKITRADER 10]

Feedback on the presentation.

I really enjoyed posting the pdf.

So many things to know. . . and I was looking for answers on what to call a tape, or faster fractal taverse, and still be on the same page as everyone.

I posted questions here not that long ago based on that.

 

So really all the material in the pdf did was take everything we have done already, and nothing new at all ( build a faster fractal from what we called tapes,

FF building a traverse, traverse builds a channel) and try to give some of these segments a name that I, and at times others question. ( traverse or tape ? no longer faster fractal ? and the tapes that built the FF ?)

 

I know the " goat ".

 

It was very recently within the past few weeks Jack mentioned in a quote what he built a channel from, and the names he gave the segments ( bbt, tape, traverse ). It was great to see there was a way everyone could be on the same page.

So it was something I felt could be animated in a few pages and post for all to view it as JH quoted.

I wish it to be helpful. Please know I have studied everything the past few years here and know the same material as everyone. ( after missing NYC probably less ! )

This was a great way to begin to help everyone so we may be on the same page when discussing the price volume relationship.

I did not create these names in any way, they originated from JH and his quote was re-posted here http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/34/price-volume-relationship-6320-83.html#post77657

 

So I cannot take credit for the terminology, but it would have been cool to come up with all of this.

Hope you enjoyed it.

[ptunic 10]

Tuesday, October 13, 2009.

[Spydertrader 10]

Any feedback is welcome.

 

Since you work a 'day job' you might want to take a 'test drive' of Trade Navigator. The software has a 'playback' function which allows the learrning trader to view the market 'tic-by-tic' as it develops throughout the trading day, but viewed "Live" at the trader's convenience - instead of during live market hours. You should be able to obtain a free trial for these purposes.

 

As far as your efforts go with respect to chart annotations, I have a few comments for you: Focus in on how Gaussians must operate, and how all the pieces fit together. Also, make sure your 'carryover' trend lines accurately reflect the current market dynamic. Lastly, with respect to your 'chart notes,' consider using a darker color - making your notes easier to read and easier for others to provide you feedback.

 

I feel it very wise to set goals. Instead of a 'profit goal' (as most new traders set) you have chosen to set 'transference goals." Continue to do so in an effort to improve knowledge, skills and experience.

 

Keep up the great work.

 

- Spydertrader

Edited October 14, 2009 by Spydertrader

[MKTr 10]

Spyder,

 

Thanks for the response.

 

Here is my AM effort for today. Improvement (I believe) but still a long way to go. I am also working on MADA. I can tell I am often premature in 'deciding'.

 

MK

[Mr. Bojangles 10]

According to mikeytrader, both Ireland and myself refuse to read books. In fact, the only trading book (if you can call it that) I have ever read was Reminiscences of a Stock Operator. If the word, 'Gaussians' bothers you (or the author of, "The Black Swan") then I recommend you call the lines goats.

 

Goat herders aren't much for picking nits, so I don't think they will care.

 

Good trading to you.

 

- Spydertrader

 

I mentioned that book because you make a comment about Mandelbrot in your original set of articles. The author claims to be a close friend of Mandelbrot and a big fan of his work. I'll crawl back into my goat cave now.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Mr. Bojangles

[ehorn 10]

Geez louise! They dragged out that approach to PT3

 

lol!

[zdo 20]

OK - What is a 'goat'?