The Price / Volume Relationship

[TIKITRADER 10]

Following up with the Shifted gap fill from earlier.

This chart is for shift only. Do not pay attention to price.

 

What I have for today so far. Chart is simple not much on it

[Ezzy 10]

10-09-09 ES Chart for today.

[TIKITRADER 10]

Es 5 min. Chart

 

Posting this chart with full detail to accompany previous charts for gap close, as those has omitted gaussians and were only for gap purposes

[dkm 10]

With the huge variety in gaussian interpretation, some guidance to put us all on the same page would be gratefully received. Or even perhaps some feedback as to why certain interpretations are incorrect.

[rs5 10]

Friday 9 October 2009

[cnms2 10]

With the huge variety in gaussian interpretation, some guidance to put us all on the same page would be gratefully received. Or even perhaps some feedback as to why certain interpretations are incorrect.

It seems that some posters draw gaussians (and use the volume pane) only to record their interpretation of the price action (and their view of the L1s, L2s, L3s). If they did the drill of covering the price pane and drawing gaussians exclusively from the volume information, they'd sometimes get a slightly different picture, especially on L3s. The correct picture comes out from the correct interpretation of both P and V.

[dkm 10]

...If they did the drill of covering the price pane and drawing gaussians exclusively from the volume information, ....

 

I must be mistaken because I was under the impression that gaussians were not drawn exclusively from volume. See #143 "The Gaussians must match the trend lines." Perhaps you could help me by explaining how I should do this if the price pane is covered up? TIA

[cnms2 10]

I must be mistaken because I was under the impression that gaussians were not drawn exclusively from volume. See #143 "The Gaussians must match the trend lines." Perhaps you could help me by explaining how I should do this if the price pane is covered up? TIA

In my interpretation, that statement says that the "gaussians must match", and not that the "gaussians must be drawn to match". So when they don't match, maybe the price annotations need to be adjusted, or both.

 

Start from your Friday volume gaussians. Looking just at your volume pane would you draw the same gaussians? If "yes" you're done ... for now, and try another chart. If 'no", or "not exactly", draw gaussians as you see them, on three fractals (or more). Then compare them to your price pane annotations and see if you can change something there to have your gaussians "match the trend lines". In the beginning this will be harder to do, but in time you'll be able to recognize volume formations and trends that will tell you the story sometimes better than the price.

 

If you had a "yes", or even a "no", on Monday come back to Friday's chart and with the benefit of hind sight review your annotations.

[TIKITRADER 10]

With the huge variety in gaussian interpretation, some guidance to put us all on the same page would be gratefully received. Or even perhaps some feedback as to why certain interpretations are incorrect.

 

 

I can give you an idea as to why I had annotated the chart I had just posted.

 

 

I have been working on the daily chart, bar by bar with tapes, and relating the daily tapes to the 5 minute intraday moves.

This can be found in the Iterative Refinement thread on recent posts, so I will leave out repeating it here.

Just something I had been trying out to see how well it would all fit together.

 

Friday Oct 9th on the daily tape I was looking for a b2b on market open and continue sequences for a return to dominance ( in chart attached, final yellow zone to right ). The market opened and continued these sequences, which is the reason for the way I had annotated.

 

( quick explain on attached chart, daily bars are large white bars- 5 minute bars are in green)

 

I am not saying I am correct in any way, just contributing what I do along the way and hope some find the information useful, as I enjoy posts from members and their contributions to these threads...

 

I am also a little old school

[Ezzy 10]

With the huge variety in gaussian interpretation, some guidance to put us all on the same page would be gratefully received. Or even perhaps some feedback as to why certain interpretations are incorrect.

 

Something we haven’t done a lot of here is comparing and finding out why someone put an annotation in a particular place. That might prove beneficial.

 

Green circles: You used a gap adjustment to start the sequences the prior day. I saw the OB as a sequence completion, FTT, and an opportunity to restart the sequences at bar 1. Either way seems to work in this case. Neither of us saw the last few bars of the prior day as starting a b2b though I could see how someone could view it that way.

 

Blue circles: While 10:35 looks like the real pt2 of the goat(?) where we both annotated the gaussian, I chose to use 9:50 as it’s the max volatility for that channel. I’ve seen people annotate both ways and could only see a difference if we continued up and made a VE.

 

Red circles: I used the low volume bar at the stitch for my gaussian trough just based on volume. There is almost a lower level sequence in there as well but couldn’t work it out (added red lines). Your trough at 11:20 on the IBGS may be more technically correct.

 

Purple circles: I felt the end of the move was at 12:10 and everything in the lateral was on the non dominant side of the Gaussian, even though it appears to be a dominant lateral. There was a change within the lateral. I almost went with 12:25 as the price peak but couldn’t bring myself to end an r2r at a trough. Again, you may be more technically correct here.

 

Any other comments or differing views would be appreciated.

[NYCMB 10]

With the huge variety in gaussian interpretation, some guidance to put us all on the same page would be gratefully received. Or even perhaps some feedback as to why certain interpretations are incorrect.

 

Hi dkm,

 

Does your Forest Green trendline represent Channel?

 

Are Fuchsia and Blue trendlines for Traverse? TIA

[ehorn 10]

...Hell, some have even suggested I am completely full of shit...

 

- Spydertrader

 

That is because ......

 

"When you're one step ahead of the crowd you're a genius. When you're two steps ahead, you're a crackpot.

[ehorn 10]

An evening for quotes...

 

Those who say it cannot be done should not interfere with those of us who are doing it.

[dkm 10]

Hi dkm,

 

Does your Forest Green trendline represent Channel?

 

Are Fuchsia and Blue trendlines for Traverse? TIA

 

Yes, that was spyder's convention a while back. However, it appears to me that one man's "traverse / channel" can easily be considered another man's "tape / traverse" on the same chart. It all depends upon perspective and the context that one begins with at the open..

[dkm 10]

.... So when they don't match, maybe the price annotations need to be adjusted, or both.

 

Thank you for your suggestion. How am I supposed to know which needs adjustment?

 

... draw gaussians as you see them, on three fractals (or more).

How is one supposed to know where each fractal level begins?

[TIKITRADER 10]

However, it appears to me that one man's "traverse / channel" can easily be considered another man's "tape / traverse" on the same chart.

 

Question . . .

Starting with a two bar tape, what are they called ?

I have interpreted jh as using the term bbt's.

Then the bbt's would build the tapes and they go on to build traverses and so on.

Is this correct terminology for the bbt's ?

 

p.s is that a Morgan Monroe headstock ?

Edited October 11, 2009 by TIKITRADER

[TIKITRADER 10]

bbt's = building block tapes . If anyone may not have come across the term that is what it refers to, and it originated from jh in some of his more recent posts in past months.

[dkm 10]

Question . . .

Starting with a two bar tape, what are they called ?

I have interpreted jh as using the term bbt's.

Then the bbt's would build the tapes and they go on to build traverses and so on.

Is this correct terminology for the bbt's ?

 

I don't know why Jack started referring to tapes as "bbt's". Bars building tapes?? Correction - Building Block Tapes.

 

It is unfortunate that this thread has never fully addressed the process of forming tapes and traverses. As I understand it, all tapes begin with 2 bars, unless the 2nd bar is a flaw, in which case we wait for a bo of the 2nd bar in order to draw the RTL and LTL. Of course, if the 3rd bar high and low also fall inside the high and low of the 1st bar then we have a lateral tape. Having constructed our 2 or 3 bar tape, the tape continues until price closes outside the tape RTL, bearing in mind that the RTL is fanned as and when necessary to include all of the price action as long as price continues to close inside our tape. After we get our first close outside our initial tape, we can then begin to construct our next tape. The RTL bo of the 2nd tape forms the pt3 of our new Traverse, assuming that the the first tape began at pt1. This idea of 3 tapes forming a "Traverse" goes back to the beginning of the first Spyder journal on ET. However, we are reminded in this thread that it is the volume sequence that defines the presence of a Traverse so the above description cannot be considered complete unless we observe the mandatory b2b2r2b or r2r2b2r. It might also be worth mentioning that Spyder explained at the NY meeting that the absolute minimum number of bars for a Traverse is 5. Three bars to give us our "b2b", a 4th bar to give us "2r", and the 5th to give us our "2b" and sequence completion, and there MUST be a close outside each tape RTL in order to construct a Traverse.

 

My apologies if this is going over old ground but I suspect it might be of use to someone who is more confused than myself, and it might even shed some light on my misuderstanding if someone wishes to correct this.

[cnms2 10]

Thank you for your suggestion. How am I supposed to know which needs adjustment?

... Think! Do your best!

How is one supposed to know where each fractal level begins?

... ditto

 

Come back to your chart after few days, check it, adjust it, draw conclusions. In the beginning it's harder, you'll err more.

[Tams 20]

I don't know why Jack started referring to tapes as "bbt's". Bars building tapes?? Correction - Building Block Tapes.

 

It is unfortunate that this thread has never fully addressed the process of forming tapes and traverses. As I understand it, all tapes begin with 2 bars, unless the 2nd bar is a flaw, in which case we wait for a bo of the 2nd bar in order to draw the RTL and LTL. Of course, if the 3rd bar high and low also fall inside the high and low of the 1st bar then we have a lateral tape. Having constructed our 2 or 3 bar tape, the tape continues until price closes outside the tape RTL, bearing in mind that the RTL is fanned as and when necessary to include all of the price action as long as price continues to close inside our tape. After we get our first close outside our initial tape, we can then begin to construct our next tape. The RTL bo of the 2nd tape forms the pt3 of our new Traverse, assuming that the the first tape began at pt1. This idea of 3 tapes forming a "Traverse" goes back to the beginning of the first Spyder journal on ET. However, we are reminded in this thread that it is the volume sequence that defines the presence of a Traverse so the above description cannot be considered complete unless we observe the mandatory b2b2r2b or r2r2b2r. It might also be worth mentioning that Spyder explained at the NY meeting that the absolute minimum number of bars for a Traverse is 5. Three bars to give us our "b2b", a 4th bar to give us "2r", and the 5th to give us our "2b" and sequence completion, and there MUST be a close outside each tape RTL in order to construct a Traverse.

 

My apologies if this is going over old ground but I suspect it might be of use to someone who is more confused than myself, and it might even shed some light on my misuderstanding if someone wishes to correct this.

 

 

> the tape continues until price closes outside the tape RTL, bearing in mind that the RTL is fanned...

 

 

when do you fan?

why?

 

{... your answer ...}

 

yes, but WHY ?

[PTVtrader 10]

They are going to be at Las Vegas (the VP for sure, and possibly their CEO), and even though (at least) two individuals have strongly encouraged Genesis to add a 'Gap Elimination' Option to their software, additional interest for said functionality expressed through direct contact should prove beneficial. After all, The 'opening' gap isn't the only Gap which does not exist.

 

More on this in Las Vegas.

 

- Spydertrader

 

all interbar gaps removed. :shocked:

[TIKITRADER 10]

all interbar gaps removed. :shocked:

 

That tightens up the interbar moves . . . cool image

[MightyMouse 12]

Oh, O.K. I guess since you are 'just wondering' about things, we should all come clean. You see, over the last five years, I've spent countless hours, building a worldwide conspiracy of individuals who have nothing better to do than invent incredibly unbelievable stories of amazing trading prowess. By last count, we have men and women stationed near the Black Sea and within the former Soviet Union, in and around financial centers throughout London, New York and Kuwait, across Australia and New Zealand and spanning many of the countries in Southeast Asia, in addition to having numerous agents embedded throughout Europe and across The United States. In short, any continent not completely covered in ice, and we have someone there spending their entire day posting on web sites for the sheer enjoyment of 'tricking people' into believing annotating 'pretty lines' on a Price and Volume Pane actually mean something. This vast, global conspiracy of individuals spends nights, weekends and every market day looking for unsuspecting neophytes of the trading world in an effort to recruit new members into 'the cult.'

 

Strangely enough, the above fictitious scenario represents a far more believable environment to most people who represent the 'just wondering' crowd than when I say (factually), "I sat with a gentleman 2 weeks ago who captured $22,000 USD in 5 days, and he considered that amount a bad week due to the low volatility of the market."

 

Some of the people you've 'disagreed' with in this thread already make nice coin. They just don't feel the need to prove it to you - or anyone else. Interestingly, most of the 'just wondering' crowd often mistakes the 'refusal to post proof' choice as 'failure to profit' rather than 'failure to care whether or not people believe they can profit.'

 

It's a binary choice world. Pick which scenario appears most plausable to you and let the rest of the world make their own choices as well.

 

I have always remained quite comforatable knowing a significant number of people who post on web sites believe my posts lack value. Hell, some have even suggested I am completely full of shit.

 

I'm cool with all of that. You should be too.

 

- Spydertrader

 

Spydertrader,

 

Can you post or demonstrate from a historical perspective, the trades that the individual took over the 5 day period while you sat next to him to make $22,000 trading in the low volatility market trading this system? I assure you that I am not suggesting that you pulled that dollar amount out of thin air; instead, I simply would like to see how an individual could earn an amount that we would all love to be able to earn trading futures on a short term basis. It is your system, so I thought that you might post those trades to give those following the thread the encouragement to continue. Also, what was the contract size that the trader was trading?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

MM

[Tams 20]

Spydertrader,

 

Can you post or demonstrate from a historical perspective, the trades that the individual took over the 5 day period while you sat next to him to make $22,000 trading in the low volatility market trading this system? I assure you that I am not suggesting that you pulled that dollar amount out of thin air; instead, I simply would like to see how an individual could earn an amount that we would all love to be able to earn trading futures on a short term basis. It is your system, so I thought that you might post those trades to give those following the thread the encouragement to continue. Also, what was the contract size that the trader was trading?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

MM

 

 

if you need that as an encouragement (or purpose of learning)... trading is not for you.

[MightyMouse 12]

if you need that as an encouragement (or purpose of learning)... trading is not for you.

 

Tams,

 

Silly response. Was referring to continuing this thread, not trading. If you care to let others make a claim and let it go unsubstantiated, go for it. I don't mean to threaten your fantasy with a dose of reality. Enjoy!