The Price / Volume Relationship

[ehorn 10]

So my daughter is watching Sesame Street this morning ...

 

Sesame Street was brought to you today by the letter "W"

 

Sorry couldn't resist...

[ehorn 10]

My view of the day...

[romanus 10]

Thursday, August 6, 2009

Edited August 7, 2009 by romanus

[romanus 10]

...

So where did romanus and me screw up?

 

Was it in calling the entity which preceded the down tape, a traverse? Or was it in the interpretation of the snippet itself? ...

Speaking for myself only: my original chart contained an error in gaussian annotations. Terminating medium B2B at 12:30 is not possible because the original tape (black dashed labeled (a) in the attached) that moves the price from Point 1 to Point 2 of 'something' is not broken and as such that whole up move lacks that which would make it a 5 min ES level traverse. The blue dotted tape (labeled (b) in the attached) IS broken, however, since is completly resides inside the original black dashed tape, I annotated it with skinny gaussian lines.

[rs5 10]

6 Aug 2009 - still searching for my error..........

[rs5 10]

Sesame Street was brought to you today by the letter "W"

 

Sorry couldn't resist...

 

Good ole sesame street...thank you for the reminder

[ljyoung 10]

Speaking for myself only .....

 

Thanks for posting romanus. Our errors were of a different type. Annotative (yours) vs oversight (mine). Again I continue to be amazed at the girth and staying power of these tapes. If memory serves me correctly, it was Jack who mentioned something along the lines of a "... a VE is (like) a 4 and (depending upon the level of expertise of the trader) a HOLD." My failing memory forces the paraphrase and the bracketed additions, but I think what I've said is correct.

 

 

See you at the starting gate tomorrow, or perhaps a bit before.

[rs5 10]

What is the correct way of annotating this lateral tape please? option 1, 2, or 3? When the second close of the lateral starts and ends outside of the lateral does the rule of closing on the second violation of bar 1 of lateral still stand?

 

Also what is correct way annotating the up tape-lateral tape-up tape sequence?

 

Thank you!!

[rs5 10]

Revised tape sequence annotation with 2nd close as end of lateral

[rs5 10]

Friday 7 August 2009

[romanus 10]

Friday, August 7, 2009.

[rs5 10]

Friday 7 August 2009 revised

Edited August 8, 2009 by rs5

[TIKITRADER 10]

Spyder

 

Are these non dominant lateral traverses accurate as how they would be annotated currently, if this example was todays data ?

I am aware of your take on past annotations.

10/17/08 example.

Edited August 9, 2009 by TIKITRADER
clarify question

[NYCMB 10]

Friday, August 7, 2009.

 

Hi romanus,

 

Is it possible to place 2b from 10:55 to 11:05? 11:40 bar is lower than 11:05 bar. TIA

[NYCMB 10]

Hi Spydertrader,

 

I'm aware of that IBGS and Lateral Movement are wordings used no more. Is the post (see the attachment) still effective for Lateral Formation? TIA

[Spydertrader 10]

Spyder

 

Are these non dominant lateral traverses accurate as how they would be annotated currently, if this example was todays data ?

 

The attached chart shows annotations titled Lateral Traverses. The Lateral Differentiation Drill focuses on Lateral Formations.

 

- Spydertrader

[Spydertrader 10]

I'm aware of that IBGS and Lateral Movement are wordings used no more.

 

I don't recall suggesting that an Intra-Bar Gaussian Shift no longer exists. Perhaps, you could link to the comment where I indicated not to use the acronym IBGS.

 

Is the post (see the attachment) still effective for Lateral Formation?

 

Find a lateral which provides an example. From the point in time where the market provides the indicator desired, annotate two ways: one where the Lateral Formation ends, and the other where the Lateral Formation continues. Which method does the market determine as true and accurate?

 

- Spydertrader

[TIKITRADER 10]

The attached chart shows annotations titled Lateral Traverses. The Lateral Differentiation Drill focuses on Lateral Formations.

 

- Spydertrader

 

In this example there is a lateral formation. This lateral formation is labeled a traverse.

Is this lateral formation also a traverse ?

[Spydertrader 10]

In this example there is a lateral formation. This lateral formation is labeled a traverse.

 

No. Actually, it isn't labeled as you have indicated. The attached chart shows a label containg the words Lateral Traverse - two words; not one word. Unless you have determined the words Lateral Traverse, and the single word, Traverse represent the same things, I could not have done as you suggest in your post.

 

Is this lateral formation also a traverse ?

 

The market defines a Traverse based on Volume. The market defines a Lateral Formation based on Price. What answer does the market provide with respect to your question?

 

- Spydertrader

[TIKITRADER 10]

No. Actually, it isn't labeled as you have indicated. The attached chart shows a label containg the words Lateral Traverse - two words; not one word. Unless you have determined the words Lateral Traverse, and the single word, Traverse represent the same things, I could not have done as you suggest in your post.

 

- Spydertrader

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then could you possibly be referring to the Lateral Traverse here as in the Lateral ( price container ) ' TRAVERSED ' and not a Traverse as in the complete build of sequences ( volume construct ) that eventually builds a channel?

[Spydertrader 10]

Then could you possibly be referring to the Lateral Traverse here as in the Lateral ( price container ) ' TRAVERSED ' and not a Traverse as in the complete build of sequences ( volume construct ) that eventually builds a channel?

 

It is entirely possible that you have articulated the attached chart's annotations in that 'traversed' (verb) differs from 'traverse' (noun). However, since I annotated my charts based on the context (back then) of the conversation (again, at the time posted) within the thread, I could not say for sure as I have no idea what the thread focused on back in October 2008. It is for this reason that I do not recommend reviewing old charts - other than through the lenz of whatever the context was at the time of the charts creation. For example, someone looking at a chart from January to September 2007 might wonder why I no longer annotate hitches, dips and stalls. Of course, once they read October 2007 initial (5 part) post, things become quite clear.

 

To locate that specific chart's context, simply review the thread at the time of its creation.

 

In this thread, I have placed the focus on 'learning to learn' from the market itself, understanding the process of differentiation and focusing on how one knows the market has provided certainty.

 

One need not 'go back in time' to focus on these things.

 

If you wish to see everything needed, focus on the current market (specifically from 7/13/2009 to present day).

 

I plan to post a drill covering this time period within the next few days.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

[Spydertrader 10]

As part of the morning Pre-Flight Check, a trader needs to know where the market has ended its sequences from the previous trading day (16:15) with respect to the three trading fractals (tape, traverse and channel [or skinny, medium and thick - if you prefer] annotated on the ES five minute chart.

 

But what if you don't know? Then what?

 

Simply, let the market tell you by reaching a point of certainty.

 

To be clear, everyone should already know. After all, the market has been closed all weekend, and no additional data has arrived on the chart (nor will it until tomorrow morning). However, in the event where the trader doesn't realize certainty exists (such as the case may be), how can the trader learn to see that which currently appears obscured?

 

Start by determining what you believe you see on your chart. Then set about the task of determining what the market needs to do in order to confirm, but also, what the market needs to do to invalidate, that which you believe. Do you have a tape? A Traverse? A Channel?

 

At what point does the market say, "Hey Dude! Whatever the hell you thought you saw, it should be pretty clear it can't happen now." At what point does the market say, "Nicely done. You realy nailed that one."

 

Mark these points on your chart.

 

Now, wait for the market to do its thing.

 

What answer did the market give you? More importantly, how can you apply that which the market has told you onto the next set of sequences?

 

So, based on where you think you are (with respect to the market sequences), how can you know you had things correct (or incorrect, as the case may be) for tomorrow morning?

 

What must the market do?

 

Again (as I have said many times), you already know the answers, you just do not yet realize it.

 

- Spydertrader

[ptunic 10]

Hey all, very great meeting everyone earlier this year in New York and big thanks to Spydertrader!

 

Attached is my initial attempt at Aug 4.

[rs5 10]

Monday 10 August 2009 - still searching

[double eagle 10]

Here's my first chart posting. I want to thank everyone for participating in this thread. It has been enlightening and helpful for me. I want to especially thank Spydertrader for showing us the "how" and "where" of learning how to learn.

 

I worked off of the beginning point that point 1 of the forming up traverse began 14:50 of 8/6. I saw point 2 as 13:35 of 8/7. That made the 9:35 bar today as point 2 of the forming down tape and bounded the rest of the day in the carryover tape. I was anticipating the completion of the down tape and a traverse point 3 which arrived at 14:20 today.

 

I need to do a review to see if this view has been confirmed or invalidated by the market.